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IndianicWorld
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:10 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 49):
But WLG is much larger than either HBA or DRW, no?

WLG is around 400K and CBR is around the same from memory.

HBA is over 200K and Darwin 100K,

None are big cities.
 
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RyanairGuru
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:14 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 46):
No, it was always going to be between Melbourne and Sydney.

Albury and Wagga Wagga were strong possibilities though. Albury likely made the most sense though.

Of the two I'd have thought that Wagga made more sense, as it is almost exactly half way?

Personally I always thought that it should have been somewhere on the coast. Eden would have made a great capital, close to half way and with a very deep natural harbour (and let's not forget that in 1901 steamship was still the fastest way from Melbourne to Sydney, not overland).

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 48):
Italian & Sons and Eighty-6 are two of the best restaurants.

Spot on!
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Coal
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:21 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 48):
Italian & Sons and Eighty-6 are two of the best restaurants.

Močan & Green Grout, more of a private kitchen, is excellent, too.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
Motorhussy
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:23 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 49):
But WLG is much larger than either HBA or DRW, no

Wellington Region has a population of 470-thousand of which over 200-thousand live in the Wellington City environs. This figure increases to over 390-thousand when including satellite urban/suburban areas outside these environs.

Compare this 380-thousand to (greater) Hobart's 220-thousand and (greater) Darwin's 140-thousand.

Interestingly (greater) Canberra comes in at over 420-thousand.

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population

and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington
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Zkpilot
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:49 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):

Which is still insane. You would have thought this route would have service given that WLG is one of Australia's state capitals...   

WLG is actually the capital of neighboring New Zealand, which is a separate country--not in Australia.

CBR is the capital of Australia.

He was being sarcastic.


I doubt this would have the go-ahead without the support of NZ and VA. Good chance NZ will do a full revenue share deal with SQ on this one (or at least the WLG-CBR sector). Good thinking outside of the box from SQ.

This service is needed but has always been in the too hard basket. By operating it as a tag from Oz makes it much more viable. Should have a decent amount of pax travelling on to SIN so hopefully that free's up a bit of space on the WLG-AKL flights.
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mariner
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:51 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 53):
Wellington Region has a population of 470-thousand of which over 200-thousand live in the Wellington City environs. This figure increases to over 390-thousand when including satellite urban/suburban areas outside these environs.

The Canberra Airport director claims a potential catchment of 900,000:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...nberra-report-20160111-gm3rm1.html

"People might say Canberra and Queanbeyan is only 420,000 [people] but they [IKEA] recognise two things – number one we are a catchment of 900,000 people and number two that we have good incomes," he said"

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RyanairGuru
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:55 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 55):
they [IKEA] recognise two things – number one we are a catchment of 900,000 people

Not just IKEA, it's old news now but Costco Canberra was only the second store to open in Australia. Canberra got Costco before Sydney, Brisbane etc. Canberra does 'punch above it's weight' as it were in terms of market size.

Quoting mariner (Reply 55):
number two that we have good incomes

There is definitely that. Canberra has the highest per capita income in the country, and the city's population has a very high propensity to travel (the jokes about everyone wants to get out of Canberra are in fact partly true).
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mariner
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:00 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 56):
There is definitely that. Canberra has the highest per capita income in the country, and the city's population has a very high propensity to travel (the jokes about everyone wants to get out of Canberra are in fact partly true).

And while we're at it, there's a thriving gay community, as in Wellington.  

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VapourTrails
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:01 am

I support the discussion of this finally happening, it seems.. I imagine there will be a few spotters about. 

Ever since the QF 767 left town, there has been nothing out of the ordinary - visually or auditory, to get our (or my) attention, except for the occasional diversion or special visit. I look forward to the change in the skies and at CBR - a gradual move into the future, with one airline and the A330. I am also interested in seeing how they manage the international destination and transit side at CBR.

=
 
IndianicWorld
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:11 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 51):
Of the two I'd have thought that Wagga made more sense, as it is almost exactly half way?

My thinking was more in line with Albury being on the border  

Sydney is 5 and a half hours away from Albury and Melbourne is 3 and a half. Compare that to the current situation of nearly 7 hours from Melbourne to Canberra and just over 3 from Sydney.

Wagga Wagga likely was a more central spot though but I guess fair isnt always fair  
 
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RyanairGuru
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:14 am

Quoting VapourTrails (Reply 58):
I am also interested in seeing how they manage the international destination and transit side at CBR.

I was wondering the same, right now CBR's international facilities aren't set up to handle international transfer passengers, but the airport owners have been moving heaven and earth for several years to try and pull this off so no doubt they are prepared to build additional security facilities for transit passengers to make it happen.

At the most fundamental level, CBR's terminal is the same as ADL with domestic-international "swing gates". Passengers would use the Virgin Australia domestic lounge (which would therefore almost certainly not be available to transit passengers) after going through domestic security, and then proceed through the more rigorous international security and customs/international formalities closer to departure. This is pretty much how it is done at ADL.

It's easier to see from the outside, but there is another level above the terminal concourse on the Virgin side of the terminal (i.e. the newer section) which is the "International" terminal. Departing passengers enter the Domestic concourse, and then take an escalator up to the International concourse. When boarding there are escalators down to the main concourse level adjacent to the gate behind the secure area, from where they board the aircraft. Arrival passengers similarly exit the airbridge on the domestic concourse level, but then take an escalator down to ground level, again behind the secure area. This leads down to a secure baggage claim and customs area on the lower level, which is the unfinished section between the Virgin and Qantas baggage claims. I want to say that gates 7 and 8 are the international gates, but don't quote me on that. They are very obvious once you notice it as they have escalators adjacent to the gate lounge behind glass walls.
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kiwiandrew

SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:20 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 59):
Compare that to the current situation of nearly 7 hours from Melbourne to Canberra and just over 3 from Sydney.

Are you sure about that ? According to QF MEL to CBR is 1:10 and SYD-CBR is 0:55 ... what are you flying, a zeppelin ?  
 
IndianicWorld
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:23 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 61):
Are you sure about that ? According to QF MEL to CBR is 1:10 and SYD-CBR is 0:55 ... what are you flying, a zeppelin ?

Driving  

In a plane Melbourne-Canberra and Sydney-Canberra are certainly close.
 
DeltaB717
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:23 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 49):
I've flown HBA MEL CBR before, as a matter of fact. But WLG is much larger than either HBA or DRW, no?

Ryanair meant nonstop.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 50):
WLG is around 400K and CBR is around the same from memory.

HBA is over 200K and Darwin 100K

To my way of thinking, both HBA and DRW as equally as likely to see nonstop again for completely different reasons. HBA is quite a small market in terms of population at both ends (and there's little point worrying about connectivity because MEL & SYD have that covered for both!), but is a popular tourism destination and is well within range for a Q400 or similar which avoids flooding the market. DRW, on the other hand, is a smaller population catchment and outside the range of many smaller aircraft such as Q400s and B717s, but is a strong Defence route from CBR and has some degree of connectivity to Asia (and Europe, less so). VA with its E190s or Airnorth with its E170s are probably the most natural fit there.
 
IndianicWorld
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:29 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 63):
Airnorth with its E170s

Given their moves onto routes from Wellcamp in recent weeks that would not be a surprise  
 
antskip
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:38 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 51):
Personally I always thought that it should have been somewhere on the coast. Eden would have made a great capital, close to half way and with a very deep natural harbour (and let's not forget that in 1901 steamship was still the fastest way from Melbourne to Sydney, not overland).

The more obvious alternative would have been Jervis Bay, to the east of Canberra. IMHO it would have provided a far superior position for a Capital City than the inland position chosen to make neither Sydney nor Melbourne jealous. Jervis Bay was a late inclusion as a part of ACT - as Canberra's seaport. One can only imagine what placing the capital there would have been like. I am sure it would have been amazing.

[Edited 2016-01-11 20:03:37]
 
6thfreedom
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:28 am

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 38):
Will be interesting to see flight times. If they are targeting Asian/Indian connections it will need to arrive SIN in the morning, afternoon or early evening. But it'll need to arrive into SIN 8pm-ish to connect to European departures. People won't want a 5 hour stopover.

The schedule will also need to have reasonable times across to WLG to capture Government traffic.

SIN - CBR
1915-0610+1

CBR - WLG
730 - 1240

WLG - CBR
1400 - 1540

CBR - SIN
1700 - 2215

Outbound from Singapore European departures start from 2330, so ample connection time. the flight also covers connections to north Asia and India in the 2330 - 0230 bank.

Inbound to Singapore will connect from London and Frankfurt, and just about every other point in Asia.
 
aerohottie
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:11 am

I think this SIN-CBR-WLG flight on SQ actually makes a Americas-AKL-CBR flight on NZ more likely.
The VA/SQ/NZ alliance would have all options covered for CBR pax. North and west with SQ, East with NZ, and domestic on VA.
What?
 
QFA380
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:10 am

As I mentioned in the Aus Aviation thread, this route will target the fairly high diplomatic traffic between CBR and WLG.

I would expect that VA and NZ will shuffle things around to provide feed and codeshares. This probably won't work without their help. VA has a weak presence in Canberra and this could be an incentive to throw some more E-jets at it.

The ACT government /Canberra Airport will desperately want this to work and will be putting in some decent incentives.

Quoting Coal (Reply 52):
Močan & Green Grout, more of a private kitchen, is excellent, too.

My absolute favourite cafe in Canberra and was an easy bike ride from uni.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 66):

The schedule will also need to have reasonable times across to WLG to capture Government traffic.

Probably similar times to CI flights across the ditch.
If you stay on the ground in WLG until 1900 you create the ability to have a meeting and avoid an overnight stay. Leaving CBR at midnight (no curfew) transiting pax can arrive in time for the morning departures to the sub-continent.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 66):
the flight also covers connections to north Asia and India in the 2330 - 0230 bank.

I think SQ is more likely to time for Indian and Asian connections than European.

Huge numbers of Indian and Chinese students in Canberra along with more one-stop options for government traffic into Asia.

SQ doesn't have as big a footprint in Europe compared to CX or EK which reduces the incentive to avoid SYD or MEL if you're doing two-stops anyway.

There aren't a huge number of Asian flights that leave around midnight from Singapore not to mention Silk Air doesn't do much in the middle of the night.
 
6thfreedom
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:09 am

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 68):
Huge numbers of Indian and Chinese students in Canberra along with more one-stop options for government traffic into Asia.
Quoting QFA380 (Reply 68):
There aren't a huge number of Asian flights that leave around midnight from Singapore not to mention Silk Air doesn't do much in the middle of the night.

from Singapore SQ has departures to India and China after midnight, as well as arrivals between 3pm and 6pm from the same places.
 
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RyanairGuru
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:21 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 69):
Singapore SQ has departures to India and China after midnight

China is a significant back-track via SIN from the East Coast. Personally I'd never consider them for any point east of Vietnam, although I do appreciate that a lot of people do.
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qf2220
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:30 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 51):
Personally I always thought that it should have been somewhere on the coast. Eden would have made a great capital, close to half way and with a very deep natural harbour (and let's not forget that in 1901 steamship was still the fastest way from Melbourne to Sydney, not overland).

There was a fear (real or imagined, i won't judge) that seaborne invasion of the capital was a possibility. Hence no coastal options. I think they were heavily influenced by US thinking at the time given the British invaded and captured Washington (and the White house) in 1812 and so a coastal city was out.
 
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mariner
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:42 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 71):
There was a fear (real or imagined, i won't judge) that seaborne invasion of the capital was a possibility. Hence no coastal options. I think they were heavily influenced by US thinking at the time given the British invaded and captured Washington (and the White house) in 1812 and so a coastal city was out.

Although there is provision for a seaport - the Jervis Bay Territory - which isn't part of NSW:

http://regional.gov.au/territories/j..._bay/governanceadministration.aspx

Jervis Bay Territory Governance and Administration

The Territory was surrendered to the Commonwealth by the State of New South Wales in 1915. The Jervis Bay Territory Acceptance Act 1915(the Acceptance Act) and Jervis Bay Territory Ordinances made by the Governor-General are administered by the Minister with responsibility for Territories.

Although the Jervis Bay Territory is not part of the Australian Capital Territory, the laws of the ACT apply, in so far as they are applicable and, providing they are not inconsistent with an Ordinance, in the Territory by virtue of the Jervis Bay Acceptance Act 1915.

The Governor-General has the power to make ordinances for the peace, order and good government of the Territory. Ordinances made under this power include the Administration Ordinance 1990 and the Leases Ordinance 1992.


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RyanairGuru
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:30 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 71):
British invaded and captured Washington

Two points: (1) IIRC the invasion of Washington was overland, not by water, and (2) the United States' history is revolutionary, Australia's isn't. At the time of Federation Australia was 100% a British Colony, and didn't become less of one in 1901. Federation was not "Independence", despite popular history often, err, getting confused.
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RyanairGuru
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:39 am

Actually I've just remembered my Australian history, the fear wasn't that the British would invade but rather out neighbours to the north. Talking about the War of 1812 I thought you were suggesting that the British might invade Australia. Of course it was the fear of our northern neighbours that pushed the colonies into Federating, so it is understandable that was playing on their minds in selecting a capital.
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:16 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 68):
SQ doesn't have as big a footprint in Europe compared to CX or EK which reduces the incentive to avoid SYD or MEL if you're doing two-stops anyway.

SQ is larger than CX in Europe, no? They have nearly the same destinations but SQ sends the 388 on many of CX's 77W routes.

SQ destinations: LHR MAN CDG AMS CPH DUS FRA MUC ZRH MXP FCO BCN IST DME
CX destinations: LHR LGW MAN CDG AMS DUS FRA ZRH MXP FCO MAD
 
aw70
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:13 pm

I just hope this is true. And that SQ ends up using the 350 on that route. There is that vantage point at WLG on the hill above Wexford road, where on nice days one can sit on a bench and watch the arrivals. Imagine seeing a 350 ride in - from above!  
 
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qf2220
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 72):

Yep - another little Federation anachronism.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 73):

Ill have to re-read my history about 1812 then. But there were definitely US influences on our Federation, eg, the naming of the Senate and the House of Reps. There have been various other examples of US influence, but ill have to do some fact checking before I post.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 74):

I never said British fear - Australia loved Britain then and did so for a few more decades thereafter. It was fear of Germans (and Asians) that were more front of mind then and were one of the driving forces in promoting Federation. I only bring up the British as that was what was on the American's minds and what would have been diffusing from them into the Australians.
 
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mercure1
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 am

mercure f-wtcc
 
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Coal
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:30 am

SQ seemed to have posted the link to their own press release but it leads to a broken link:

http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...K/press_release_news/ne0316-160120

Interesting to read they may use the VA lounge. The VA lounge is after security and, incidentally, right next to what is meant to be the international departure area (there's a big glass door with signs that say "International flights coming soon" which I believe has been there since the new terminal was built). VA will probably have to up the ante on the food side to match SQ's requirements.
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zkncj
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:39 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 79):
Interesting to read they may use the VA lounge. The VA lounge is after security and, incidentally, right next to what is meant to be the international departure area (there's a big glass door with signs that say "International flights coming soon" which I believe has been there since the new terminal was built). VA will probably have to up the ante on the food side to match SQ's requirements.

VA food offerings aren't that bad, they are pretty standard for an lounge in Australia and New Zealand.

The VA lounge will only be able to be used by passengers starting there trip in CBR, the WLG passengers will have to waiting in the gate area for the transit.
 
Motorhussy
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:01 am

If it's a good quick transit, noone's going to miss a lounge. Hope there are a few decent shops and loos in the transit area.

Local Wellington angle on it in the following link is that it will cut the travel time from Welllington to Asia by 90-minutes.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/760538...ingtoncanberra-service-from-august

* weirdly, it says 77E's rather than A330?!

[Edited 2016-01-19 18:03:43]
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Coal
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:25 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 80):
they are pretty standard for an lounge in Australia and New Zealand

For a domestic lounge, but certainly not for an international lounge. Also, hot food is typically only after 5:30pm and sporadically in the morning at VA lounges.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 81):
Hope there are a few decent shops and loos in the transit area

Not in CBR. There is virtually nothing, especially when you turn left after security.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
CBRboy
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:41 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 81):
* weirdly, it says 77E's rather than A330?!

SQ appear to have indicated at the announcement media conference that they will use 777-200s rather than A330-300s because the former has more business class and fewer economy class seats and they expect a significant proportion of premium traffic.

Quoting Coal (Reply 79):
VA will probably have to up the ante on the food side to match SQ's requirements.
Quoting zkncj (Reply 80):
VA food offerings aren't that bad, they are pretty standard for an lounge in Australia and New Zealand.
Quoting Coal (Reply 82):
For a domestic lounge, but certainly not for an international lounge. Also, hot food is typically only after 5:30pm and sporadically in the morning at VA lounges.

My somewhat limited experience of VA domestic lounges is that they fail to compete with Qantas domestic business lounges and fall far short of what you would expect from an international business lounge.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:57 am

 
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Groover158
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:37 am

Quoting antskip (Reply 65):
The more obvious alternative would have been Jervis Bay, to the east of Canberra. ... One can only imagine what placing the capital there would have been like. I am sure it would have been amazing.

I'm sure it will have ruined a perfectly beautiful place to visit.
 
777boi
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:17 am

I am so happy to hear the confirmation of this route! I hope it will succeed and eventually draw in more airlines! My hometown is a further 2 hours west of Canberra and we all have to bi-pass Canberra to get to Sydney to get to the nearest international airport. This catchment area is much, much bigger than I think people realise. Wishing them all the best on this route and I know my family for one are glad to hear this news.
 
CBRboy
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:49 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 84):
77E is in the officia media release:

The media release says '266-seat retrofitted Boeing 777-200s'. That description only fits the retrofitted basic 777-200, not the retrofitted 777-200ER, which has 26J and 245Y.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:56 am

Point taken, but as far as I can tell from any production lists etc the 777-200s in SQ's fleet are all -200ER of some description. Happy to be corrected if I'm misinterpreting.
 
zkncj
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:51 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 88):
Point taken, but as far as I can tell from any production lists etc the 777-200s in SQ's fleet are all -200ER of some description. Happy to be corrected if I'm misinterpreting.

Its an weird one, as the SQ website says that have 11x 777-200 (non-er)

http://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/flying-with-us/ouraircraft/

Maybe they are offical ER's, but unofficially downgrade to non ER's e.g. no crew rests etc.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:09 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 89):

That's what I'm wondering, and things like paper-downrating etc. as well. There are some as well which have the smaller aft hold door, although I can't remember which. It's strange, but hey!
 
AngMoh
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:42 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 89):
Its an weird one, as the SQ website says that have 11x 777-200 (non-er)

http://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/flying-with-us/ouraircraft/

Maybe they are offical ER's, but unofficially downgrade to non ER's e.g. no crew rests etc.

They are 200ERs downgraded to 200 spec: derated engines, reduced MTOW, no crew rests. They can be software upgraded (with paid-for paperwork) to 200ERs.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
RickNRoll
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:30 am

RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:46 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
How is that Canberra does not have a flight even to AKL?

Canberra might be the capital city of Australia but it's population is only 380,000 with no real business sector. The state capitals are where most people live.
 
Motorhussy
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:03 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 92):

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
How is that Canberra does not have a flight even to AKL?

Canberra might be the capital city of Australia but it's population is only 380,000 with no real business sector. The state capitals are where most people live.

Canberra's default international airport has always been SYD which is only a few hours away on the Hume Highway, or a very short flight, of which there are many at good prices.
come visit the south pacific
 
zkncj
Posts: 3975
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:59 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
How is that Canberra does not have a flight even to AKL?

Because there is barely any traffic between the two cities. The busiest Tasman route is AKL-SYD, followed by AKL-MEL.

Most Business are based in Auckland and Sydney and not in the capitals, the capitals are merely an town with government offices and a couple of random private companies.


An typical weekday between AKL-SYD

LA - 1x 789
NZ - 1x A320, 2x 767, 1x 77W, 1x 772
VA - 1x 738
EK - 1x A388
JQ - 2x A320
QF - 5x 738
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:45 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 94):
Most Business are based in Auckland and Sydney and not in the capitals, the capitals are merely an town with government offices and a couple of random private companies.


I go to Canberra quite a lot and I see it very differently.

Just for starters. the Federal public servants all live there, a small army of them - in all weathers - they're not carpet baggers like the Federal politicians. This includes a fair whack off the Defence Force, and obviously Duntroon, which gives a few Kiwi cadets.

http://www.canberrayourfuture.com.au...orking/article/key-act-industries/

"Canberra has a unique employment market – here you’ll find the best educated workforce and the highest per capita income in Australia. "

There's a lot of tourism - nearly 200,000 international visitors a year with the Chinese leading that pack in numbers and in spend, as well as more than 2.9 million domestic visitors. (2015).

VFR (tourists visiting friends and relatives) is counted separately and that's another 1.8 million. (2015).

A lot of people have business with the various government departments and others come to see the great monuments, the War Memorial especially, and the Art Gallery. There are almost endless conferences and seminars, especially associated with the universities, and a vast range of educational courses.

I think WLG-CBR will do well and I think AKL-CBR, even if less than daily, is a lay-down-misere - or, in American, a slam dunk.

I don't care that AKL-SYD has a lot more traffic - it's a saturated, highly competitive and price sensitive market, at least at the lower end. The trick is to find desirable but under-serviced markets with little competition and some pricing power, which I think Singapore has just done.

mariner

[Edited 2016-01-21 00:13:10]
aeternum nauta
 
SKAirbus
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:29 am

I quite like Canberra... I visited in 2014 and found it to be a charming place. Being a new city, it's planned layout is fascinating and the architecture is very different. I love how embassies are encouraged to be built in the design of the country they represent. My favourite is the PNG embassy...

The lake is also really nice and there are so many outdoor spaces surrounding the city: Mount Ainslie overlooking the centre and the airport. You also have the Tidbinbilla Nature Reserve in the ACT, which is home to many of Australia's most iconic animals and an important preservation centre for endangered species. Then there is all the food and nightlife in Canberra!

The only people I know that go on about how awful Canberra is are people Sydney and Melbourne who it transpires have never visited the place. It's not a conventional city by any means but definitely well worth a visit!

Anyway, congrats to SQ and Canberra for this route! I'm sure it will be a success!
Base: BRU
 
SKAirbus
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RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:36 am

Incidentally, looking at the map of the Canberra terminal, how will they handle international arrivals and departures as the map seems to indicate that all the gates are used for domestic flights?

The airport will need passport control, quarantine and customs, as well as departure immigration checks and duty free shops etc. Will they have to carry out some construction work?
Base: BRU
 
VapourTrails
Posts: 3939
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:30 pm

RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:00 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 97):
Incidentally, looking at the map of the Canberra terminal, how will they handle international arrivals and departures as the map seems to indicate that all the gates are used for domestic flights?

The airport will need passport control, quarantine and customs, as well as departure immigration checks and duty free shops etc. Will they have to carry out some construction work?

This was discussed in the other thread when it was announced yesterday, but I can longer see that thread on here.  

Here is a link, in which it also describes some of the work that will need to be done:

Canberra international flights: Singapore Airlines launches Capital Express route, Sydney Morning Herald, by Tom McIlroy, January 20, 2016:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...express-route-20160120-gm9orm.html

From the article:

"The absence of a night time flight curfew was seen as a key attraction for Canberra Airport, with red-eye flights in both directions chosen to make them convenient for business and government travellers. Travel connected with federal Parliament and the public service is key to the deal's business case.

Depending on the success of the route, Singapore Airlines could boost the frequency, either seasonally or permanently at a later date. The government expects other airlines to continue consideration of Canberra but welcomed Singapore's "first mover advantage" in the market.

A new departure and arrival lounge will cost $25 million, paid for by Canberra Airport. It is part of a $32 million investment by the business, which said it would offer more if other airlines followed and offered international flights, too.

Construction of a new customs and arrivals area inside the Canberra terminal will begin within weeks. The cost of customs and immigration staff is paid for by taxpayers."

----------------------

I also mentioned in the thread, about the late evening, and near midnight arrival and departure four nights a week.

I have only read one comment online on the wider web, about the impact the larger aircraft may have on the surrounds of the current quiet regional airport that this has been.

It does not worry me, as I can see the future when I step into the airport, but there are some residents around the airport that got the flight path altered because they didn't like it. At least that is what I read.

[Edited 2016-01-21 02:03:30]
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1726
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

RE: SQ Announce Canberra And Wellington B777 Services

Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:09 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 97):
The airport will need passport control, quarantine and customs, as well as departure immigration checks and duty free shops etc. Will they have to carry out some construction work?

Provision for all of those facilities was designed into the new terminal building (at the western end) ready for a quick-ish fitout when needed, i.e. now. As for the mechanics, there is a glass partition which can be closed to separate the very western end of the building which becomes the international lounge. Pax enter the international lounge via an escalator to a different floor (can't remember if up or down, up I believe), pass through the border controls then back up to the main departures level to wait & then board. Arriving pax, IIRC, deplane onto a level below the departures waiting lounge.

If you're familiar with ADL, it's very much the same concept.

[Edited 2016-01-21 02:10:19]

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