usflyguy
Topic Author
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WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:31 pm

In followup to this previous thread, www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6571931/, WN released LAX-LIR for sale today on southwest.com

Flt. 6920 LAX-LIR Dpt 2:40 PM Arr 9:10 PM
Flt. 6918 LIR-LAX Dpt 9:15 AM Arr 2:15 PM
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:46 pm

Nice. At 2,283 nautical miles, is this the longest WN route these days?
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
av8orwalk
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:02 pm

Good to see the times allow for connections! The original thread already predicted the failure of this flight before flight times were even loaded into the system. Safe to say these times allow for plenty of connections.

THE FOLLOWING IS PURELY RUMOR! On a related note, according to an employee at WN, there are rumblings that WN has struck a deal with the Liberia airport to make it a base for flying south further into South America. Not just a few flights...but in a pretty big way. We know how rumors usually play out, but it's an interesting one to say the least.

Cheers!
Drew MCO
The safest place to be in an airplane crash is on the ground.
 
tortugamon
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:05 pm

Quoting av8orwalk (Reply 2):
WN has struck a deal with the Liberia airport to make it a base for flying south further into South America.

That is not really Liberia airport's call on whether or not WN can operate that route.

tortugamon
 
MAH4546
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting av8orwalk (Reply 2):
THE FOLLOWING IS PURELY RUMOR! On a related note, according to an employee at WN, there are rumblings that WN has struck a deal with the Liberia airport to make it a base for flying south further into South America. Not just a few flights...but in a pretty big way. We know how rumors usually play out, but it's an interesting one to say the least.

That will never happen. For multiple reasons, the least of which LIR isn't built to handle large amount of traffic nor transfer traffic and, also, that LIR has so say/involvement in such matters, which are done at a government level. Also, an airline can't compete on that level when everybody else is non-stop.

Anything that matters for Southwest in South America can be reached non-stop from FLL with a 738. LIR is not needed.
a.
 
ont 737
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:00 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):

Nice. At 2,283 nautical miles, is this the longest WN route these days?

I'm showing it at 2,628 miles. That's longer than LAX-HNL (2,552 miles).
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:41 am

Quoting av8orwalk (Reply 2):
THE FOLLOWING IS PURELY RUMOR! On a related note, according to an employee at WN, there are rumblings that WN has struck a deal with the Liberia airport to make it a base for flying south further into South America. Not just a few flights...but in a pretty big way. We know how rumors usually play out, but it's an interesting one to say the least.

Either that employee has never been to LIR or WN is going to build LIR a brand new airport.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:04 am

What's the frequency of WN's new flights? Daily?
 
Rookinla
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:22 am

I flew out of LIR yesterday. That little airport is maxed out. All four jetways were full and a Delta flight was boarding using jet stairs. The Customs facilities are often insufficient for arriving flights and there is no sterile area for transfer passengers. I'm chalking this one up to rumor. WN likes to fly point to point and there is little demand for LIR-South America. And what is there is handled sufficiently by CM.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:06 am

Quoting usflyguy (Thread starter):
Flt. 6920 LAX-LIR Dpt 2:40 PM Arr 9:10 PM
Flt. 6918 LIR-LAX Dpt 9:15 AM Arr 2:15 PM

That's a long, dark drive in a central American country to your hotel on the coast from LIR airport. I'd much rather arrive in the morning or afternoon. At over an hour each way to any decent hotels, I pity the crews with such a short layover in a beautiful part of the world.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:01 am

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 9):
I pity the crews with such a short layover in a beautiful part of the world.

with the timings of the flight the terminating crew will not be contractually legal to work the originator in the morning, so it'll be the HOU inbound crew arriving at 13:05 will overnight and take the LAX flight the next morning at 9:30 while the crew terminating in from LAX at 22:25 will take the 14:00 back to HOU the next day. The crew terminating at 22:25 will not be working the 09:30 originator.

Contractual rest period requirements and maximum duty day requirements don't allow for any other arrangement to work.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
flyiguy
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:18 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 10):
with the timings of the flight the terminating crew will not be contractually legal to work the originator in the morning, so it'll be the HOU inbound crew arriving at 13:05 will overnight and take the LAX flight the next morning at 9:30 while the crew terminating in from LAX at 22:25 will take the 14:00 back to HOU the next day. The crew terminating at 22:25 will not be working the 09:30 originator.

Contractual rest period requirements and maximum duty day requirements don't allow for any other arrangement to work.

Are you sure? I've seen 10 HR turn around's by crews at my station.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:41 am

They're going to be squashed between DL and AS. Fares currently start around $398rt all in. Yikes.

Quoting av8orwalk (Reply 2):
there are rumblings that WN has struck a deal with the Liberia airport to make it a base for flying south further into South America

No way jose.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 9):

That's a long, dark drive in a central American country to your hotel on the coast from LIR airport. I'd much rather arrive in the morning or afternoon

   It's a tough schedule for leisure, not that there's much beside leisure.

[Edited 2016-01-11 23:47:26]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:49 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 11):
Are you sure? I've seen 10 HR turn around's by crews at my station.

If it is the same crew that works a terminator in and an originator out with a scheduled rest period of less than 11 hours (it is considered a "shortback") then the duty day max the following day is 4 hours. Report at international stations is 45 minutes prior to push so their is no way that they can schedule a duty day of 4 hours or less out of LIR.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:54 am

Is this a 25 minute turnaround on the same plane, or does the aircraft come from somewhere else?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
flyiguy
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:31 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 13):
If it is the same crew that works a terminator in and an originator out with a scheduled rest period of less than 11 hours (it is considered a "shortback") then the duty day max the following day is 4 hours. Report at international stations is 45 minutes prior to push so their is no way that they can schedule a duty day of 4 hours or less out of LIR.

Yes, its usually the first term in and they work the last originator out which is usually the same aircraft.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:58 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 10):
with the timings of the flight the terminating crew will not be contractually legal to work the originator in the morning, so it'll be the HOU inbound crew arriving at 13:05 will overnight and take the LAX flight the next morning at 9:30 while the crew terminating in from LAX at 22:25 will take the 14:00 back to HOU the next day. The crew terminating at 22:25 will not be working the 09:30 originator.

Good to hear...that's a little better than 10hrs rest. I'd forgotten about the HOU flight. In researching hotels near LIR, pretty much everything decent is on the coast and a bit of a drive. Heard some are down dirt roads at some point!
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:43 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
They're going to be squashed between DL and AS. Fares currently start around $398rt all in. Yikes.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
It's a tough schedule for leisure, not that there's much beside leisure.

DL runs it as a redeye with an 0630 arrival. That sounds just as bad after a 5 hour redeye since you can't check into your hotel/resort until 2 pm usually.

AS has an optimal schedule for leisure travelers. Flight arrives at hotel/resort checkin time and departs a little over an hour later. Does AS have a late bank of flights out of LAX, otherwise with that LIR flight arriving at 9:10 pm, it's going to be all local traffic?

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 14):
Is this a 25 minute turnaround on the same plane, or does the aircraft come from somewhere else?

No and I'm pretty sure that is impossible with an international inbound.

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 15):

Yes, its usually the first term in and they work the last originator out which is usually the same aircraft.

That can be done, but the maximum duty day after a scheduled overnight like that is 4 hours. That 4 hours includes the 30 min (domestic) / 45 min (international) report and 30 minute debrief. And the key term is scheduled overnight. If it's because they're late, well.... tough ____.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 16):
In researching hotels near LIR, pretty much everything decent is on the coast and a bit of a drive.

WN crews already have 24 and 26 hour overnights there and the hotel is pretty nice. It's about a 25-35 minute drive, but it's worth it.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:37 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 17):
DL runs it as a redeye with an 0630 arrival. That sounds just as bad after a 5 hour redeye since you can't check into your hotel/resort until 2 pm usually.

It's a pretty typical pattern from the West Coast for longer leisure routings. The WN schedule requires two extra hotel nights whereas DL only requires one. You either use free aircraft time to get connectivity with a redeye, or zero connectivity with expensive plane time and a local pattern, ala AS:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 17):
Does AS have a late bank of flights out of LAX, otherwise with that LIR flight arriving at 9:10 pm, it's going to be all local traffic?

Even if they did connect to much of anything, AS doesn't run a large network out of LAX.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:22 am

Quoting usflyguy (Thread starter):
Flt. 6920 LAX-LIR Dpt 2:40 PM Arr 9:10 PM
Flt. 6918 LIR-LAX Dpt 9:15 AM Arr 2:15 PM

AS LAX-LIR 4x weekly began in October 2015.




.

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 8):
I flew out of LIR yesterday. That little airport is maxed out. All four jetways were full and a Delta flight was boarding using jet stairs.

Liberia is essentially oriented to the O&D traffic, mainly from the United States.
CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly E90 has troubles when loading planes heading to South America and the Caribbean through PTY.
On the other hand, LIR experienced peak hours from [13:00-16:00] and [19:00-21:00], especially the weekends.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1774
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:10 pm

Quoting av8orwalk (Reply 2):

LIR will not be the Central America connecting point.

SJO is planning a 9 gate expansion.
So if WN is going to make a Central America connecting point
SJO would be it.

With the flight schedule for LIR WN will most likely overnight 2 crews.


Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
usflyguy
Topic Author
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:29 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20):
With the flight schedule for LIR WN will most likely overnight 2 crews.

Correct, with 3 on Fridays and Saturdays to support the Saturday BWI-LIR flights.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:31 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 17):

That can be done, but the maximum duty day after a scheduled overnight like that is 4 hours. That 4 hours includes the 30 min (domestic) / 45 min (international) report and 30 minute debrief. And the key term is scheduled overnight. If it's because they're late, well.... tough ____.

I'm unaware of any such requirement in our contract. Afaik, a 10 hour overnight is all that's required before a subsequent full duty day.

God knows I've done it many times.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
737tanker
Posts: 369
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:44 am

FAR 117 requires 8 hours of sleep opportunity. In order to get that at a minimum you need 10 hours from checkin until lobby time and with travel time you need 11 hours off duty.
 
barney captain
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:16 am

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 23):
FAR 117 requires 8 hours of sleep opportunity. In order to get that at a minimum you need 10 hours from checkin until lobby time and with travel time you need 11 hours off duty.

Correct.

But this;

Quote:
a scheduled rest period of less than 11 hours (it is considered a "shortback") then the duty day max the following day is 4 hours

I've never heard of at WN.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
incitatus
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:22 am

Quoting usflyguy (Thread starter):
Flt. 6920 LAX-LIR Dpt 2:40 PM Arr 9:10 PM
Flt. 6918 LIR-LAX Dpt 9:15 AM Arr 2:15 PM

I'm pretty sure this flight will have a much better financial performance than EK's DXB-PTY.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2978
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RE: WN - LAX-LIR Loaded

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:29 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
this flight will have a much better financial performance than EK's DXB-PTY.

WN LAX-LIR 7x weekly will face to AS LAX-LIR 4x weekly and DL LAX-LIR 3x weekly.
Two years ago, DL LAX-LIR operating on a weekly basis was the sole isolated flight, in such route.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"

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