realsim
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Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:34 am

Finally Iberia starts flights to East Asia      

MAD-NRT starts next October, 18 with 3 weekly flights, operated with the new A332 (19J, 269Y = 288 pax). This will become Iberia's longest flight (10.794 km). The current longest flight is MAD-SCL (10.700 km, 13h25min):

MAD 1320 NRT 0935+1 Tue, Fri, Sun
NRT 1120 MAD 1820 Wed, Sat, Mon

From Oct 30 the schedule will be:

MAD 1220 NRT 0935+1 Tue, Fri, Sun
NRT 1120 MAD 1720 Wed, Sat, Mon

MAD-PVG schedule and launch date depends on obtaining the route authority and slots, but is also planned to be launched in the 2016/2017 winter season. The route will also be operated 3 times weekly with the new A332. MU is supposed to start PVG-MAD 7w this June, but nothing has been loaded yet AFAIK.

Source (in English): http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/W...c3d0252510VgnVCM2000008ee815acRCRD

This year will see a real impressive long haul expansion from Iberia. JNB and SJU are resumed this summer, while NRT and PVG are launched in autumn. Besides, CX starts MAD-HKG this June. The other existing routes are MAD-PEK with CA and MAD-ICN with KE.

[Edited 2016-01-18 04:26:51]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:37 am

Seems IB will use the new 242t A330-200 aircraft on these routes.
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SCQ83
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:37 am

Awesome  

Iberia is also increasing LAX (up to daily in summer) and BOS.

And Cathay starting soon HKG-MAD!
 
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OA260
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:44 am

Back in July 2015 they announced they were looking at NRT. Good to see it announced.
 
avi8
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:02 pm

It seems like they can't get their new A330's soon enough. Three new routes already (SJU is just coming back but still) and some Latin American destinations will start seeing them starting in March.
avi8
 
SCQ83
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:06 pm

It seems China Eastern could launch PVG-MAD daily as well

http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/50/50340.html

Quote:
The destinations of the five Shanghai-outbound services will include Amsterdam, Prague and Madrid in Europe, Brisbane in Oceania and Chicago in North America.

And Air China PVG-BCN 4 weekly

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/notici...-shanghai-partir-mayo-2016-4677737

Quote:
Air China unirá Barcelona y Shanghái a partir de mayo del 2016
La compañía operará la nueva ruta con un vuelo directo entre ambas ciudades cuatro veces por semana
 
mozart
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 4):
Three new routes already (SJU is just coming back but still)

What is driving the return to SJU? Puerto Rico is in a major economic crisis, and it isn't really needed or useful as a hub to dispatch IB passengers to other Caribbean destinations. But IB knows that and is still going, so what are their reasons?
 
TC957
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:12 pm

MAD - NRT must set the record for the longest A332 flight. Good job then they have the 242t version.
I believe IB have served NRT briefly in the past with A343's.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:21 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
MAD - NRT must set the record for the longest A332 flight.

In terms of distance the current record was set by DL on DTW-PEK and will be overtaken by IB.

In terms of flying hours I have no idea what route will be the longest. It will depend on head winds etc.

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csavel
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:28 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 6):
What is driving the return to SJU? Puerto Rico is in a major economic crisis, and it isn't really needed or useful as a hub to dispatch IB passengers to other Caribbean destinations. But IB knows that and is still going, so what are their reasons?

Was wondering the same thing. Can understand the emotional appeal, both for Puerto Rico and Spain, but P.R. is too small an economy to have much business or cargo traffic. Some Spanish expats live there but I bet far fewer now, b/c of the crisis in P.R. Which is a shame, get away from the resorts and it is a beautiful island, being tied to the US dollar and having US immigration means Puerto Rico simply can't compete with other Caribbean destinations.
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Crazy4Planes
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:15 pm

Will IB launch flights to India anytime soon? There is good amount of traffic between India and Spain.
 
migair54
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:21 pm

This is great new not only for IB, but also for MAD and Spain, links to China and Japan will bring more tourist and more investment, also we could see more trade between companies in Spain to open business in China and Japan. This are the 2 routes I was thinking always, I think PVG could do great with MAD, now if MU opens daily flight also that could be a problem for IB in the route, but I am sure Tokyo will be great and we will see 6 or 7 weekly sooner than later. the A332 is a great plane for the route but I think 19J is a bit small cabin.

Quoting Crazy4Planes (Reply 10):
Will IB launch flights to India anytime soon? There is good amount of traffic between India and Spain.

That's where the ME3 are too strong, I don't think we will see any IB flight to India in the near future, but I would love to se IB in DEL or BOM.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 4):
It seems like they can't get their new A330's soon enough. Three new routes already (SJU is just coming back but still) and some Latin American destinations will start seeing them starting in March.

I think 8 new A330 will join the IB fleet this 2016, so a big capacity increase, today also IAG announced that the A346 will stay longer than planned due to low oil price.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:22 pm

Wind back just 4 years to the toxic atmosphere which hung over Iberia.

Now, it's a vibrant, leaner company with an aggressive appetite for expansion and new markets.

NRT on the A332 has caught me out completely; never expected it, but hands off to IAG for the initiative.     

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Tdan
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:24 pm

Quoting Crazy4Planes (Reply 10):

You just asked this same question in the EW thread! For both carriers, very high probability there are zero India flights in the next 5 years at least. Yields between East Asia and Spain are already very low, but India is way worse thanks to the ME3.

I'll be interested to see IB's schedules after receiving their slots in PVG. Pretty good NRT schedule and I'm curious how much flow to SA they will put onboard.

[Edited 2016-01-18 05:25:54]
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LHRFlyer
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:25 pm

This is really excellent news for Iberia and quite symbolic as it heralds the start of Madrid becoming one of the world's global hubs.

I assume that as a consequence of this Iberia will join the BA/AY/JL Europe-Japan joint-venture. Although, this is technically a return for Iberia to Japan, a lot of the experience gained by BA will be helpful in securing a foothold for Iberia on Japan and China.
 
Australis
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:46 pm

Nice to see Iberia starting to open new markets from Madrid, especially to Asia, which compared to the other European airports, left a lot to be desired. Obviously, with growing business investment from Asia in Spain and Spanish business also growing their brands in the region, seems the route will be of mutually benefit for all (and perhaps take away from traffic from rivals AF/KL and Lufthansa).

Hopefully Iberia is able, over time, to grow the routes to daily and with these initial routes, look at opening new routes to Asia, to complement their current network.
 
commavia
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:53 pm

Wow. The turnaround at Iberia - both its apparent success and its speed - has been remarkable.

Very cool that Iberia will be linking MAD nonstop with NRT and PVG which, when combined with oneworld partner Cathay Pacific's upcoming HKG flights, will now provide quite the compliment of nonstop links between one of the alliance's largest European hubs and East Asia.
 
Armodeen
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:01 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 12):
Wind back just 4 years to the toxic atmosphere which hung over Iberia.

Now, it's a vibrant, leaner company with an aggressive appetite for expansion and new markets.

Spot on, IAG has been a godsend for IB. I don't doubt EI will be a success also.

Good news for BAEC redeemers also, clocking in a just under 6000 miles 
 
airbazar
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:01 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):

Very cool that Iberia will be linking MAD nonstop with NRT and PVG which, when combined with oneworld partner Cathay Pacific's upcoming HKG flights, will now provide quite the compliment of nonstop links between one of the alliance's largest European hubs and East Asia.

this was a no brainer all along. NRT/PVG/HKG are the 3 largest markets from Portugal too, IIRC. TP intended to fly there with the A350 until the new owners stated that they had no intention of flying to Asia. This plus LatAm connections gives IB a significant advantage on these routes over anyone else, including the ME3.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:09 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 12):
Wind back just 4 years to the toxic atmosphere which hung over Iberia.
Quoting Armodeen (Reply 17):
IAG has been a godsend for IB

Some people claimed IAG was the reason for the mess at IB.

Now look how IB has changed and are getting all these new planes from IAG.

[Edited 2016-01-18 06:11:04]
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NH203
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:13 pm

Quoting Tdan (Reply 13):
I'll be interested to see IB's schedules after receiving their slots in PVG. Pretty good NRT schedule and I'm curious how much flow to SA they will put onboard.

Acutally it's the same schedule that basically all European airlines use to Japan. I don't like it at all, the daylight flight on the way back from Japan is a huge waste of time. Unfortenatly almost everybody does Japan-Europe as a dayflight (the exeptions beeing NH and AF, who both have one overnight flight), so they can get away with it.
 
r2rho
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:14 pm

This is significant. Although it had been rumored for a while, it is happening earlier than I expected. Asia was the big gap that still remained in the MAD network (not just IB, but MAD in general). It won't be easy as the ME3 have already made strong inroads, but the new IB is succesfully competing against the LCCs on EU routes, and it looks like they are confident on competing against ME3 on long-haul.

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
This year will see a real impressive long haul expansion from Iberia. JNB and SJU are resumed this summer, while NRT and PVG are launched in autumn.

I wonder, will they keep their 7-8 remaining A343 a bit longer? Because for now, they have retired them one for one as each A330 came in. It seems likely that IB will receive all 12 remaining A332's within 2016. If the 8 A343's are replaced one for one, that would mean a net of 4 aircraft for growth in 2016. The A359's won't start to arrive until 2018 IIRC. Adding JNB, SJU, PVG, NRT plus going daily on LAX with just 4 aircraft doesn't add up (and it's not like IB's current fleet is sitting around idle).

With fuel cheap and the A340's long paid for, IMO it would make sense to keep them around, maybe for more leisure heavy routes like LH is doing with Jump, until the A359's arrive in 2018.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:17 pm

So since IB's turnaround, in long-haul HAV, SDQ, SJU, MVD, CLO, MDE, JNB and now NRT and PVG have been launched / restarted. Only COR, FOR and REC haven't been restarted, but I reckon that has more to do with local market reasons.

According to previous press releases, ASU, BSB, GDL, MTY, DOH, YUL and YYZ are potential new destinations.

And I am probably missing something.

Quoting Australis (Reply 15):
Nice to see Iberia starting to open new markets from Madrid, especially to Asia, which compared to the other European airports, left a lot to be desired. Obviously, with growing business investment from Asia in Spain and Spanish business also growing their brands in the region, seems the route will be of mutually benefit for all (and perhaps take away from traffic from rivals AF/KL and Lufthansa).

It probably has to do mainly with tourism. Spain has never been a very typical destination for Chinese tourists in their European tours but that is starting to change.

I have always though also that Spain aligns very well with what the typical Chinese tourist is looking for in Europe. In general, Spain (compared to other countries in Europe) has a better quality/price relation (specially in hotels, for which Chinese tend to be savvy), better infrastructure (Spain is flashy airports + high speed trains + motorways galore, which Chinese love), exotic culture (Gaudi, Andalusia...), shopping is comparable to anywhere in Europe, food is good (and not expensive), air is clean (well sometimes not in Madrid)... what else. Spain is the world's 3rd largest tourism destination but for Chinese it is far down the list... and that is starting to change.
 
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:26 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
I believe IB have served NRT briefly in the past with A343's.

IB flew to NRT until 1997 via SVO with a 747 Combi, not sure if the A343 was used for this flight once these started to be delivered in 1996.

In the 80s, Iberia flew to Narita via Anchorage, this is one advertisement of that time, when Iberia pointed out the advantages of this flight to Tokio

http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigat...eca/madrid/abc/1987/10/28/032.html

Its nice to get these new announcements and routes, with the addition of the new A330-200.
 
VCy
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:37 pm

Excellent news!  
However we are still waiting for them in LCA  
 
IBA346
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:49 pm

Indeed. Excellent news for IB and IAG.

Does anybody know how the connections from NRT To Latam look? It seem this can only really connect to the late night departures from Madrid to Latam for which they are relatively few compared to the main departure bank around midday. Do any connections via MAD make sense v's alternatives ?
 
TC957
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:16 pm

Quoting IBA346 (Reply 25):
Does anybody know how the connections from NRT To Latam look?

Flight arrives back into MAD at 1720, so great for the main LatAm departures plus Africa. I'm sure the Japanese will be glad to have another non-US transit point.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:52 pm

Why not send the A340 if they are planning on keeping them? Seems like quite a stretch for the A330.
 
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HECA
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:52 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 14):
I assume that as a consequence of this Iberia will join the BA/AY/JL Europe-Japan joint-venture. Although, this is technically a return for Iberia to Japan, a lot of the experience gained by BA will be helpful in securing a foothold for Iberia on Japan and China.

Can we also expect a codeshare on the MAD-NRT route with Oneworld alliance partner JL?
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avi8
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:05 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 26):

Quoting IBA346 (Reply 25):
Does anybody know how the connections from NRT To Latam look?

Flight arrives back into MAD at 1720, so great for the main LatAm departures plus Africa. I'm sure the Japanese will be glad to have another non-US transit point.

Not exactly. Many Latin American departures are at around noon, so a 17:20 arrival at Madrid only allows connections to a few.
avi8
 
IBA346
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:27 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 29):
t exactly. Many Latin American departures are at around noon, so a 17:20 arrival at Madrid only allows connections to a few.

I agree. The only IB Latam flights this could connect with are to Buenos Aires and Santiago. Mexico has also a night flight, but I am sure there would be better connections elsewhere. Lima and Quito/ Guayaquil on LAN would also be possible although I think these flights are less than daily and for now they don't carry the IB code (that will almost certainly change with the planned JV).
 
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:28 pm

Quoting csavel (Reply 9):
Was wondering the same thing. Can understand the emotional appeal, both for Puerto Rico and Spain, but P.R. is too small an economy to have much business or cargo traffic. Some Spanish expats live there but I bet far fewer now, b/c of the crisis in P.R. Which is a shame, get away from the resorts and it is a beautiful island, being tied to the US dollar and having US immigration means Puerto Rico simply can't compete with other Caribbean destinations

actually SJU has good cargo trafic - many farmaceutical companies are located their.
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migair54
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:40 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 26):
Flight arrives back into MAD at 1720, so great for the main LatAm departures plus Africa. I'm sure the Japanese will be glad to have another non-US transit point.

There's a bank of departures at around midnight to South America and some other places like LAD, I think in the future IB could expand more in West Africa and depart around mid night also, MAD is 24 hours and there's plenty of space, also flying the whole night can increase the aircraft utilisation and give plenty of connection opportunities when back in MAD.

GRU 21.10 TAM
RBA 21.55 RAM
MEX 23.45 IB
MVD 23.45 IB
JNB 23.35IB
SCL 23.45 IB
SCL 00.15 LA
GRU 00.30 IB
LIM 00.35 IB
LAD 00.50 IB

The main airports out of this reach will be GIG, UIO-GYE, BOG, CLO-MDE, CCS and the Central America plus Caribbean. I think the timing is good for the main markets, Maybe BOG could get another flight in the future around mid night and GIG could go red eye both sectors now that IB is about to have many more planes.
African routes like ACC, LOS, SSG and DKR are not well timed, but for that routes I think the ME3 will have a bigger and better share of the traffic.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
It probably has to do mainly with tourism. Spain has never been a very typical destination for Chinese tourists in their European tours but that is starting to change.

Last time I went to Spain I did some tourism in my own country, one of the most beautiful in the world, and I went to Segovia, Avila and Toledo, three awesome places, and I can tell you that I have never seen so many Chinese and Japanese pax in my life in Spain, plenty of them. Lot of investment from China in Spain also.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:02 pm

I doubt those flights are targeted for connections to LATAM.

My impression is that flights from Southern Europe to the Far East are mainly "holiday charters" that are marketed as regular flights. I flew Alitalia a few years ago and in both flights the overwhelming majority of passengers were Japanese tourists group (when I say overwhelming I mean full Economy class with about 3 or 4 Westerners). Whenever I have crossed the boarding of Korean Air in MAD it seemed the same.

MAD or FCO are not London or Los Angeles which have strong business and VFR connections with places like Japan or China (even if there is a large community of Chinese in Spain now). But Spain or Italy are two of the most visited countries in the world and Asian tourists like travelling to Europe  

Tourism organizations and authorities in Spain were asking for more non-stop services to China in order to increase the number of Chinese tourists:

http://www.abc.es/economia/20150622/...-turismo-compras-201506211912.html

A problem with Chinese tourism right now in Spain is that (unless flying PEK-MAD), any other combination involves two flights or a stop and Spain itself is further away from China. So it is basically two half days more flying to Madrid or Barcelona than to any Euro city with direct flights to PEK/PVG.

Even so Chinese tourism is already quite significant, 57% of tax-free receipts in Spain are from Chinese nationals:

http://okdiario.com/economia/empresa...na-corresponden-a-los-chinos-54712
 
Summa767
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:44 pm

Great news!

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 12):
Wind back just 4 years to the toxic atmosphere which hung over Iberia.

Indeed. I decided to look back at one such topic archived on a.net, it was titled "Is there a future for Iberia?"
https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ral_aviation/print.main?id=5697955

Some terrible allegations were thrown about then. That BA only "bought" IB to strip it off its cash was one of them! When IB was burning through it at an alarming rate.
Asturias and UALWN showed some pretty interesting imagination. At some point there is an accusation of fabricated accounting when it was shown that IB had not been profitable in its transport business since 2007. There was a fear that IB would be closed down and Vueling would follow!! All because of greedy BA  

Today Iberia has a clear vision rather than a hazy mis-direction, a capable team that actually do things rather than just fumble along. All those years of them talking about planes getting PTVs, and thinking that they might get some A330s. IAG wasted little time in actually getting on with the restructuring, the cabin refurbishments for a competitive product and negotiating those aircraft orders, and then firming them up.

[Edited 2016-01-18 10:44:26]
 
SCQ83
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:59 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 34):
Indeed. I decided to look back at one such topic archived on a.net, it was titled "Is there a future for Iberia?"
https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ral_aviation/print.main?id=5697955

Some terrible allegations were thrown about then. That BA only "bought" IB to strip it off its cash was one of them! When IB was burning through it at an alarming rate.
Asturias and UALWN showed some pretty interesting imagination. At some point there is an accusation of fabricated accounting when it was shown that IB had not been profitable in its transport business since 2007. There was a fear that IB would be closed down and Vueling would follow!! All because of greedy BA

LOL... thanks for bringing back the thread.

Well I was optimistic... and I was right.   I also said that I couldn't see IB venturing in East Asia, but I could see HKG-MAD with CX (starting this year), NRT-MAD with JAL... which is happening but with IB, and IB collaborating more with QR and DOH (at least it is already happening with BA and it might happen soon with IB). So 50/50.
 
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mighluss
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 23):
In the 80s, Iberia flew to Narita via Anchorage, this is one advertisement of that time, when Iberia pointed out the advantages of this flight to Tokio

Wow! my aunt took this flight, returning from a trip from Nepal/China/Japan, never seen references of it before! I supose it mentions "without going northern europe" because only Finnair was allowed flying over Russia... She went to Nepal the other way around, I'm not sure if the Finnish one or by the middle east... anyway she did a flight around the world just to go to Nepal.
Miquel.
 
continental004
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:16 pm

As a new expat to MAD, I have been nothing short of ecstatic about all of IB's and MAD's growth.

In the four months I have been here, one of the biggest surprises about Madrid is seeing just how many Asians there are here. There are a great many Asian tourists here, many Asian students, and of course significant immigrant communities of Chinese and Filipinos. With the upcoming links to HKG, NRT, and PVG I am happy to see MAD be linked better to that part of the world.
 
robso2
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:50 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
According to previous press releases, ASU, BSB, GDL, MTY, DOH, YUL and YYZ are potential new destinations.

I'd be surprised if they venture much further into North America with it being such a BA stronghold and with a high frequency of connections between MAD and LHR
733/4/5/6/7/8/9, 319/20/21, 752, 744, 772/W, 332/3, 343/6, E70/90, AT43, AR85/1, D38, D10, M82
 
airbazar
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:12 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 33):
My impression is that flights from Southern Europe to the Far East are mainly "holiday charters" that are marketed as regular flights.

That's true for the vast majority of routes. There's a reason why only about 20-25% of seats on most planes in any airline, are "premium" seats. On all accounts EK has been doing pretty good with this traffic and they still send a 3-class 77W/A380 there. If this market was mostly "holiday charters" I think we'd see the 2-class 77W's and more recently the 2-class A380 but that's not happening.

Quoting robso2 (Reply 38):

I'd be surprised if they venture much further into North America with it being such a BA stronghold and with a high frequency of connections between MAD and LHR

BA is not in control. IAG is in charge. And with LHR nearly maxed out, MAD offers the best alternative for growth.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:18 pm

Quoting IBA346 (Reply 30):
I agree. The only IB Latam flights this could connect with are to Buenos Aires and Santiago. Mexico has also a night flight, but I am sure there would be better connections elsewhere. Lima and Quito/ Guayaquil on LAN would also be possible although I think these flights are less than daily and for now they don't carry the IB code (that will almost certainly change with the planned JV).

Surprised to not have it connect better to GRU given the significant market to NRT. Guess the ME3 will keep that market for the time being.
 
migair54
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:57 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 40):
Surprised to not have it connect better to GRU given the significant market to NRT. Guess the ME3 will keep that market for the time being.

Actually GRU is the choice with one departure at 21:10 on TAM and another one at 00:30 on IB.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 39):

BA is not in control. IAG is in charge. And with LHR nearly maxed out, MAD offers the best alternative for growth.

I think they are doing a coordinated job, and that's why they're both doing great in my opinion. Now they have two databases to work with and 2 hub to flow the pax, luckily one has a lot of capacity so they can transfer some pax and free some space in LHR for a better routes.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:22 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 41):
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 40):
Surprised to not have it connect better to GRU given the significant market to NRT. Guess the ME3 will keep that market for the time being.

Actually GRU is the choice with one departure at 21:10 on TAM and another one at 00:30 on IB.

Seems awfully long; don't the ME3 offer quicker and smoother connections?

Regardless I assume these flights are geared principally at demand to Spain rather than Latin America. NRT is just a bit curious since the Japanese tourist market has been shrinking lately.
 
mfc
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:36 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 42):
Seems awfully long; don't the ME3 offer quicker and smoother connections?

Actually, going through Europe is shorter in terms of distance than troguh the ME. You can check on Emirates.com that the shortest travel time via DXB is more than 30 hours, while connecting with IB is 27 hours. According to Kayak, the shortest travel time is via FRA or LAX.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I was talking about NRT-GRU

[Edited 2016-01-19 04:23:58]
So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
 
runway23
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:48 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 42):
Seems awfully long; don't the ME3 offer quicker and smoother connections?

A later arrival in MAD would mean missing out on European departures around 8PM. The European connections are much more important than reducing the time between NRT and GRU.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:10 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 29):
Not exactly. Many Latin American departures are at around noon, so a 17:20 arrival at Madrid only allows connections to a few.

I think the main thing here is that transferring from one international flight to another in the US is a complete nightmare because it is not possible to do so without going through immigration and customs. MAD has the advantage of a fully integrated one-world terminal with airside transfers that do not require entering Spain/EU.

I guess flight times have also been calculated based on the most optimal and popular transfers for LATAM and Japanese customers. Setting up a new route isn't as easy as pointing ones finger on a map.
Base: BRU
 
airbazar
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:46 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 44):
A later arrival in MAD would mean missing out on European departures around 8PM. The European connections are much more important than reducing the time between NRT and GRU.

I would disagree given that one has to overfly nearly all of Europe to get to MAD from Asian, and then backtrack. I suspect that this schedule is more due to limitations/slots on the NRT side than for European connections.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:25 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 42):
Seems awfully long; don't the ME3 offer quicker and smoother connections?

Regardless I assume these flights are geared principally at demand to Spain rather than Latin America. NRT is just a bit curious since the Japanese tourist market has been shrinking lately.

Japanese tourism is doing very well in Spain, at all-time records

http://www.hosteltur.com/112945_boom-turismo-japones-espana.html

475.000 visitors in 2014 (+23.4% over 2013) and in the first 8 months of 2015, it grew +31% YoY over 2014.

Interestingly, according to this other article:

http://www.hosteltur.com/177920_turi...ivel-global-se-dispara-espana.html

Spain is the 3rd most visited country in Europe by Japanese tourists, only behind France and Germany, and ahead of Italy. So that basically made Spain the largest destination in Europe (and maybe even in the world) for Japanese tourists with no non-stop flight from Japan.

A non-stop flight should increase further those numbers. So I am sure IB is mainly interested to connect to BCN, SVQ and maybe AGP, LIS and BIO, which are the more-likely destinations for Japanese tourists in Spain.

Also people here get crazy about Asia-LATAM but TK and ME3 can very easily dump fares on those routes, notably now that some of those countries are not doing well (specially Brazil).

[Edited 2016-01-19 07:28:00]
 
r2rho
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RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:46 pm

Agree that Asia-LatAm has stolen too much of the discussion. Any connection posibilities created are a nice bonus, but I don't think it is the main purpose of this route. OTOH, you can catch the evening wave to many places in Spain, and I think that will be the main target for connections.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: RE: Iberia Launches MAD-NRT And MAD-PVG

Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:53 pm

DolphinAir747 wrote:
Seems awfully long; don't the ME3 offer quicker and smoother connections?


Do you call that long?
That's why you haven't been onboard the boring and never ending GRU-LAX-BJS Air China flight with the A332...
Imagine the poor guys travelling GRU-BJS being stuck there for almost 24 hours...

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