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jbmitt
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:11 pm

The financials mentioned the proceeds of an insurance settlement. Any idea whether this is related to the MD-88 written off at LGA? I believe that in the past there was also a claim for ground equipment damaged by Hurricane/Superstorm Sandy.
 
jbs2886
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:13 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 49):
They also stated with gusto (I pictured a smirk) that Trainer produced $300M net profit this year "And we paid $150M for it". Not sure how much additional they invested above that $150M in modernization projects, but it certainly seemed like an "F the haters" moment.

  

RA also mentioned a number of times that the result of the decreased profits at the refinery resulted in huge benefits to the airline.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:36 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 26):
Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 2):
Nice profit, now reward the pilots with what they are really worth!

What about the autopilot coders who do 90% of the pilot's work for them?

Should they get 90% of the additional monies?

This is an amateurish comment that unfortunately shows a lack of understanding of what pilots do, or how autopilots work for that matter.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:12 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 45):
In my opinion and from what i've gathered, the work was generally harder and the place was much more disciplined. I know some guys from old Piedmont in CLT. Part time workers were pretty much ran from the breakroom. They were only there for 3-5 hours so they were expected to work. No flights? Go round up bag carts or FOD for 45 minutes until the next bank. The rest goes for everyone but shoes had to be shined. Belt was a must. Had to have a watch/pen. These things would send you home for the day. Heaven forbid you put a scratch or dent in a piece of GSE. You were out there with paint brushing it up.

Yes, pay was good. Health benefits was good etc but things were more rigid back then. Only those who worked during the 80s and early-mid 90s would understand.

I started with DL in '71, right out of the Air Force, so, perhaps, the discipline, etc. didn't seem all that rigid to me, comparatively. From '71 I worked at cargo at ORD, then 2 years at SHV in ops and then at SLC for the next 23 years, from when we only had 5 flights a day thru the merger with WA in ops and the coordinators office and then Cargo, again until I retired in '05. Thru all of that, I never thought things were all that rigid. Perhaps someone that hadn't been in the armed forces before they started with DL, would think it was rigid........I don't know.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:08 am

Quoting winginit (Reply 3):
disclaimer: Devil's Advocate

Right, because surely the reason for these profits is because their pilots are flying so much better and safer than they were a year ago?
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 9):
I quess that being in the 99th percentile of all American wage earners isn't paying them enough? Give me a break.

Well to be fair, they have received massive pay cuts since 9/11, and now that the companies are doing much much better, they'd like to make up for what they lost. I don't see that as unfair

Personally, I can't wait to be an airline pilot and even the lowered wages will be more than enough for me. But becoming a professional airline pilot is hard and takes a lot of skill, those jobs make the big bucks, can't fault anyone for wanting a lot of money for it

And I don't think anyone here is saying that the non-pilot groups don't deserve higher wages, I'm sure 99%+ of the pilots want wages raised for all in addition to theirs

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 26):
What about the autopilot coders who do 90% of the pilot's work for them?

Geez. Autopilot is great and all but airline pilots don't get paid the big bucks for flying straight and level or doing benign climbs and descents. They get paid a lot because when **** hits the fan their quick thinking and years of training kick in, and that's often done without autopilot

Not saying that autopilot isn't a great tool that aids safety, just saying that you can easily train anyone off the street to fly the flight directors (what the autopilot goes off of) in a few minutes. I've seen people that have never flown before take the controls of an airliner (not an airline airliner, obviously) and fly almost as well as autopilot would, that is not the hard part. Heck, even my 12 year old neighbor could do it decently in the sim though I had to trim it for him  
 
roseflyer
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:10 am

With profits that high it is time for some of the smaller airlines to grow. It is too bad that it takes a billion dollars and a miracle to start a new airline because these huge profits mean that Americans are paying too much in air fare.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
avi8
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:23 am

It's a business not a charity.
avi8
 
flightsimer
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:53 am

Quoting winginit (Reply 14):
Without that bump, I believe pilot and FA salaries were very much in line with those at the other major US carriers.

Pilots did not get that raise, see below.

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 22):
Lol. And right there, for everyone to see, is the mindset that amazes. It's all about pilots; never mind the rest of the ''team'' that puts people and bags on planes, or work in the cabin. All money should go to pilots, leave the companies only barely enough to function for day to day ops.



The rest of the "team" got TWO pay raises in 2015 totaling nearly 18% in hourly wages alone. Pilots, dispatchers and executives did not receive this raise. The pilots received only the small contracted increase that was negotiated years ago. Pilots and dispatchers at delta negotiate their pay rates in blocks of time. These rates have built in rate increases through the contracted period. Once the contract becomes amendable at the "end date" , the group still has to work by it, but it becomes open to renegotiate a new one. This may take years.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 31):
Its going to be a very high % raise after year and years of cuts. Even now when you look at everything I don't believe a single work group that went into BK is still back at (or close to) pre-BK levels. (again, not just pay EVERYTHING)



I had been following the thread at APC on the tentative agreement but haven't since around New Years.

But IIRC in that thread, numbers were posted that the pilot rates are currently around 30% lower compared to the rest of the workforce when compared to pre vs post BK pay rates. It would take a raise of ~40 % to bring them back to pre BK levels once adjusted for inflation. I think it was said the FA's were the closest at around 10% less than pre BK rates.

But I agree 100%, there is no way with these profits that Delta will be able to get a contract in their favor. I think the pilots know that since Delta canceled the A/C order after the pilots rejected the first TA as Delta had threatened to but then turned around and reordered...
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:06 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 57):
The rest of the "team" got TWO pay raises in 2015 totaling nearly 18% in hourly wages alone. Pilots, dispatchers and executives did not receive this raise. The pilots received only the small contracted increase that was negotiated years ago. Pilots and dispatchers at delta negotiate their pay rates in blocks of time. These rates have built in rate increases through the contracted period. Once the contract becomes amendable at the "end date" , the group still has to work by it, but it becomes open to renegotiate a new one. This may take years.

But they did get profit sharing, along with the rest of the employees. I'm curious about this statement...."The rest of the "team" got TWO pay raises in 2015 totaling nearly 18% in hourly wages alone." That would indicate, to me that the rest of the employees got something besides the pay raise. What might that be?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 49):
They also stated with gusto (I pictured a smirk) that Trainer produced $300M net profit this year "And we paid $150M for it". Not sure how much additional they invested above that $150M in modernization projects, but it certainly seemed like an "F the haters" moment.
Quoting jbs2886 (Reply 51):
RA also mentioned a number of times that the result of the decreased profits at the refinery resulted in huge benefits to the airline.

...but ate a billion + in fuel hedges; for the last quarter alone the refinery made $8M but the settled hedge losses were $336M:

"For the quarter, the refinery produced a profit of $8 million. Settled hedge losses were $336 million, including $60 million of early hedge settlements."
I don't take responsibility at all
 
flightsimer
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:02 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 58):

They also got an extra 1% in 401K matching, but I'm not sure if there was increases to anything else or if the pilots got that as well.

[Edited 2016-01-20 05:03:55]
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
B757Forever
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:28 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 58):
"The rest of the "team" got TWO pay raises in 2015 totaling nearly 18% in hourly wages alone." That would indicate, to me that the rest of the employees got something besides the pay raise. What might that be?

On April 1, 2015, most non-contract employees got a 4% pay increase. On December 1, 2015, another 14.5% pay increase was given. That totals 18.5% pay increase during 2015.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:30 pm

Quoting B757Forever (Reply 61):
On April 1, 2015, most non-contract employees got a 4% pay increase. On December 1, 2015, another 14.5% pay increase was given. That totals 18.5% pay increase during 2015.

I already mentioned that. What I don't know is what the non-contract employees got, besides the pay raise, that the pilots would not have received.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
winginit
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:49 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 55):
With profits that high it is time for some of the smaller airlines to grow.

Because carriers like F9 and NK aren't growing at astronomical rates with massive fleet orders on deck? please...

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 55):
It is too bad that it takes a billion dollars and a miracle to start a new airline

it's definitely not because, you know, aircraft and the associated logistics make commercial aviation one of the most capital intensive industries on the planet...

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 55):
these huge profits mean that Americans are paying too much in air fare.

The cherry on top of the most ridiculous cake. So in the 2000s, when airlines across the board were losing billions of dollars, Americans were paying too little? Corporate profits equate to consumers being gouged? I'd love to hear your high level take on capitalism and economics as a whole.
 
reltney
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:49 pm

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 22):

I have never complained about my pilot pay. Some do but not me.


I understand. Your are a pilot washout no doubt or a pilot wannabe. If you have not done the work, you don't get to get the pay. Check the box for pilot on your next airline application. Back it up with education. I know that was harsh but need to get your attention.

Delta workers (non pilots)received a 14% pay raise in November 2015.. They are getting to reap the profits. Pilots took a 40% pay cut prior to bankruptcy that has not been fully recovered. The airline is flaunting the record profits, we are asking for some back. The groups like ALPA and Delta management are waging the battle thru media and both make the other out to be the bad guy. Pilot wannabes see it and are alarmed and believe one side or the other. No worries.

It's funny watching the opinions......from both sides I might add.

BTW, I started as an airline mechanic (different airline)and worked my way up to pilot. I have no pity on what others make. A baggage handler loads bags....unloads bags...loads bags....unloads bags...... He is paid accordingly ...

Facts are facts.... Flame away flamers....
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:30 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 64):
BTW, I started as an airline mechanic (different airline)and worked my way up to pilot. I have no pity on what others make. A baggage handler loads bags....unloads bags...loads bags....unloads bags...... He is paid accordingly ...

You know as well as I do, that a "baggage handler" may do more than just handle bags. They might also work at cargo, working with customers, processing freight, accepting freight, etc. There are so many jobs that they might do, without being JUST a "baggage handler".
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
winginit
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 65):
You know as well as I do, that a "baggage handler" may do more than just handle bags. They might also work at cargo, working with customers, processing freight, accepting freight, etc. There are so many jobs that they might do, without being JUST a "baggage handler".

kind of like how pilots may do more than just takeoff... autopilot... land... takeoff... autopilot... land...

not much more, but sometimes!   

  
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:59 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 66):

Quoting mayor (Reply 65):
You know as well as I do, that a "baggage handler" may do more than just handle bags. They might also work at cargo, working with customers, processing freight, accepting freight, etc. There are so many jobs that they might do, without being JUST a "baggage handler".

kind of like how pilots may do more than just takeoff... autopilot... land... takeoff... autopilot... land...

not much more, but sometimes!

"Baggage handlers" might also de-ice a/c, do pushbacks, plan loads, clean planes (in some stations), repair GSE, etc. They do MUCH more than just load and unload bags, which makes that label that they've been given just a little vague.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
reltney
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 66):

True.... I don't fly Airbus so I don't push many "buttons" ....

Again, took many years and an education. When the turbine wheel left the engine and took out 2 hydraulic systems and created a big hole in my wing plus mangled the flaps.... Which button did I push? Which airport did I hand fly the approach to a low vis approach. How do I land at Quito with a emergency? I had the IRS go to "no GPS"above 75 north and gave 2 blank screens . Now the closest airport is in Siberia ..can you recover the nav system to make it around North Korea ........... Come on answer..... You throw bags, you should know this.........waiting.

Again, again. You are not a pilot, you have no clue.

Seriously, it's beyond your scope to answer as it takes to be a pilot.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
Flighty
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:18 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 13):

A n;ice strike will bend Delta to their knees.! Its on the horizon after the givebacks over the decades.

I remember those words before and it didn't win my respect then. People who talk like that experience a lot of pain because of their immaturity. The most successful people I know continually ask, "how can I help you."

Quoting reltney (Reply 64):
Pilots took a 40% pay cut prior to bankruptcy that has not been fully recovered.

Pilots took a 40% pay cut because they drove the company into bankruptcy and the PBGC very near it. They took a lot of money that belonged to other people. My company makes money too but that doesn't mean it is my money. Basic information about property rights.

[Edited 2016-01-20 11:18:47]
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:21 pm

Seriously pay the gate agents and baggage reps a little more. They get yelled at constantly, and shown little respect. That is a tough job that is WAY underpaid.
 
flightsimer
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting B757Forever (Reply 61):
On April 1, 2015, most non-contract employees got a 4% pay increase. On December 1, 2015, another 14.5% pay increase was given. That totals 18.5% pay increase during 2015.

Last time I checked, 18.5 is NEAR 18...
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
B757Forever
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:03 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 71):

Quoting B757Forever (Reply 61):
On April 1, 2015, most non-contract employees got a 4% pay increase. On December 1, 2015, another 14.5% pay increase was given. That totals 18.5% pay increase during 2015.
Quoting flightsimer (Reply 71):
Last time I checked, 18.5 is NEAR 18...

Yes it is. You shouldn't need to check again.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:08 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 71):
Last time I checked, 18.5 is NEAR 18...
Quoting B757Forever (Reply 72):
Yes it is. You shouldn't need to check again.

Generally speaking when you say "That was near 100" that means it was almost 100 aka just shy, or short of. Like "98 is near 100". You wouldn't say "105 is near 100", you would say "105 is slightly over 100".

[Edited 2016-01-20 14:09:24]
 
bobnwa
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:32 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 13):
A n;ice strike will bend Delta to their knees.! Its on the horizon after the givebacks over the decades.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 31):
) Pilots got none of that

on your part
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pilots receiving profit sharing like all other employees as well as being more than adequitly compensated in fact more than any other occupation in the country.
 
Brewfangrb
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:43 am

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 55):
these huge profits mean that Americans are paying too much in air fare.

Oh? So you're the decider? At what point is a profit too much profit? You know how Americans can avoid "paying too much in air fare"? NOT FLYING. Problem solved. No one is forcing anyone to pay anything.
 
reltney
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:41 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 69):

Pilots did not drive the company to bankruptcy... Southwest paid their pilots higher than Delta back then and they did not enter bankruptcy. It was very poor management. Mainly due to Allen and Leo days. Delta is basically a non Union airline except for the pilots which are less than 1/5th of the total employee count. SW is 90% union.

So again another myth and rumor squashed by facts.

Where you are being misled is reading someone's opinion instead of looking at the facts.


Flame away flamers. Facts are facts..
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
delimit
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:17 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 64):
Delta workers (non pilots)received a 14% pay raise in November 2015.. They are getting to reap the profits. Pilots took a 40% pay cut prior to bankruptcy that has not been fully recovered.

I thought the raise this year was partially offset by changes to the profit sharing calculation. The pilots' profit sharing should be unchanged, as it's covered in the contract, no?
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:33 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 68):
Come on answer..... You throw bags, you should know this.........waiting.

Again, again. You are not a pilot, you have no clue.

Seriously, it's beyond your scope to answer as it takes to be a pilot.

It's this attitude that drives the label of "Sky Gods". Could you route a shipment from AVL to SVO, rate it properly and apply all applicable fees? You pilot a plane, you should know this........waiting.

As I mentioned before, there's more to being a "baggage handler" than just handling bags. A little more respect on your part would go a long ways.

Quoting reltney (Reply 76):
e pilots which are less than 1/5th of the total employee count.

How much of that 1/5th get more in wages than the other 4/5ths? BTW, I think you forgot about the dispatchers.....they're union, too.



Makes me wonder what happened with the pilots who weren't laid off during the fuel crisis in the 70s and, instead, were kept on, working ramp, etc.? I realize they may be gone, but does that mean their attitude, which was being glad they weren't furloughed, should disappear, too?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:07 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 69):
Pilots took a 40% pay cut because they drove the company into bankruptcy and the PBGC very near it. They took a lot of money that belonged to other people. My company makes money too but that doesn't mean it is my money. Basic information about property rights.

Well my uncle was a pilot on the MD-11 when DL had them in a very short explanation i'll say his house in hawaii was almost bigger than my high school that i went to in Hawaii,so i wanna say he was WELL compensated for back then .And to add us ramp guys just don't load your bags as a load planner (ALA) I make sure your fuel is right on,I taxi 100 million dollar airplanes all over active taxiways,i do the weight and balance on the aircraft i also can do it manually which most guys can't do its definitely not Einstein stuff but its very important and again its not just loading bags..
 
winginit
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:39 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 68):
Come on answer..... You throw bags, you should know this.........waiting.
Quoting reltney (Reply 68):
Again, again. You are not a pilot, you have no clue.
Quoting reltney (Reply 68):
Seriously, it's beyond your scope to answer as it takes to be a pilot.

Wow. An arrogance and degree of disrespect that I'd hoped was on the decline among the ex-military commercial pilot crowd. Very sad.

I don't know where you got the notion that I'm a baggage handler (I sit very comfortably in a US3 headquarters building thank you very much... want to talk about running an airline? You fly planes, you should know this.... waiting), but irrespective of that, your statements, and that fact that such minor comments clearly made in jest set you off to such a degree are telling to say the least.
 
reltney
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:08 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 78):

That is awesome ......
Funny you mentioned that, my father got bumped to the ramp from the cockpit in the early 70s. He made more money on the ramp. First2 year pay sucked at airlines..

You issue is a lost cause. I work with a team to get an airliner in the air. No individual effort. Nothing short of a team. If you think a airplane cleaner should get paid the same as a pilot, You must be smoking something good.

I worked the ramp, fueled planes, loaded cargo,(mail) became an A&P mad money then got my license, instructed while throwing bags, joined the military, defended our country for liberals to complain . Nothing you think or say changes the pure fact. Pilots fly planes, with out that, it stays on the ground, even RPVs need pilots and I can do all the rest. It's called an education. We don't live in the world where you should be rewarded for not doing anything.

BTW thanks for paying taxes so I could fly my military jet to party's and out flying for a fun day just because. I fly in airshows all over the country, you have paid to see me, thanks. Did you go to the show to see the plane loaded with baggage or be cleaned....no.

Being jealous is no excuse, do the work and enjoy the rewards.

You did not know my background but now you do. I worked hard to get to my position, I enjoy the pay.


I am a pilot and envy no one...


Flame away flamers.....
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
reltney
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:24 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 80):
irrespective

Well, you misunderstand. Read above response. Your a smart guy.. I loaded for years. I sat in the cold a Lambert field loading checks and calculating W&B. I worked for trans state on the ramp.. I also pulled cylinders in the same cold on light planes.. Those jobs don't bring the pay. I worked the ramp at IAH, cracked knuckles on DC9 landing gear. I put on respirators and crawled in fuel tanks scraping alge, No pay.

I am cocky and good at what I do, I know you job as well as my own. We get paid different because of responsibility and what revenue we bring in. Baggage smasher make more than rampers who make more than cleaners. The CEO makes more than the rest. I get paid for what I do knowing what others make. I like my pay and fight for it. If you don't like it, don't be jealous, you should have checked the pilot box on the application. I fly air shows and have a small maintenance facility for light planes. I know aviation pretty well and am still learning. I get paid for what I know and do.

I am a pilot and envey no one....... I have done the other jobs......no thanks.

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 81):
If you think a airplane cleaner should get paid the same as a pilot, You must be smoking something good.

Mind showing me where I said they should? I'm thinking you should show more respect, that's all.

Quoting reltney (Reply 81):
We don't live in the world where you should be rewarded for not doing anything.

So, now you don't think that the rest of us do anything, is that about right? I realize that the flight crew is necessary to get the a/c off the ground and land it and according to you, it takes a team. On that we agree, but in the next breath you imply that the rest of us aren't necessary. Which is it? I know, but I wonder if you do.

Quoting reltney (Reply 81):

I am a pilot and envy no one...

Sky God  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
surfdog75
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:25 pm

Maybe we should re-title this thread Delta Unity. All members of the team are equally important in making this well oiled machine run. I actually wouldn't put it past the anti union company negotiators to plant a guy on here to sow disunity prior to company negotiations with ALPA.

I'm proud of the accomplishments of all the members of the Delta team. When a happy family leaves the jet after a trip home from a great vacation or a loyal business customer makes it comfortably and efficiently to her meeting it's the result of a ton of hard work by everyone here.
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:00 pm

Quoting surfdog75 (Reply 84):
I actually wouldn't put it past the anti union company negotiators to plant a guy on here to sow disunity prior to company negotiations with ALPA.

Well, it ain't me.

Quoting surfdog75 (Reply 84):
I'm proud of the accomplishments of all the members of the Delta team. When a happy family leaves the jet after a trip home from a great vacation or a loyal business customer makes it comfortably and efficiently to her meeting it's the result of a ton of hard work by everyone here.

     


Exactly
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
surfdog75
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:21 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 85):

Ha, I know it's not you. It may be the guy who said "I'm a pilot, I envy no one". No pilot I know would utter that phrase, unless he was auditioning for Top Gun 2.

[Edited 2016-01-23 12:22:43]
 
slvrblt
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:58 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 82):
I am a pilot and envey no one....... I have done the other jobs......no thanks.

 

How cute.......for you. By the way.......it's spelled e-n-v-y, NOT e-n-v-e-y.

How cliche.....for you

How gauche.
..everything works out in the end.
 
OOer
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:47 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 57):
The rest of the "team" got TWO pay raises in 2015 totaling nearly 18% in hourly wages alone.

It's not an 18% pay raise at all. If I take something from one hand and put it in the other did I gain anything? Nope.

Quoting B757Forever (Reply 61):
On April 1, 2015, most non-contract employees got a 4% pay increase. On December 1, 2015, another 14.5% pay increase was given. That totals 18.5% pay increase during 2015.

The hourly pay rates were increased but several other things were taken away.

Quoting reltney (Reply 64):
Delta workers (non pilots)received a 14% pay raise in November 2015.. They are getting to reap the profits.

No, incorrect.

Look at the numbers Delta just posted.

Profit sharing for 2015 was $1.49 billion, with the change in the profit sharing formula if Delta's profits are the same (or greater) than 2015 then employees would see a $620 million cut to their profit sharing. Since their individual payout is 21.4% that would essentially reduce it to 12.5%. So right there is over 9-10% of it (since profit sharing is based on all their wages and not just base hourly rate). Add to that the fact that Delta just announced they are cutting staffing on their 777s, increased their health insurance by a % that is much higher than the national average (or other airlines), and has made it substantially harder to earn their "shared rewards" which are their operational bonuses (up to $100 cut per month). So right there you have nearly ALL of their 14.5%, plus...if profits continue to grow (which they are substantially in 2016) the cut to profit sharing actually increases and WILL turn into a paycut starting in 2017.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:00 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 88):
Profit sharing for 2015 was $1.49 billion, with the change in the profit sharing formula if Delta's profits are the same (or greater) than 2015 then employees would see a $620 million cut to their profit sharing. Since their individual payout is 21.4% that would essentially reduce it to 12.5%. So right there is over 9-10% of it (since profit sharing is based on all their wages and not just base hourly rate). Add to that the fact that Delta just announced they are cutting staffing on their 777s, increased their health insurance by a % that is much higher than the national average (or other airlines), and has made it substantially harder to earn their "shared rewards" which are their operational bonuses (up to $100 cut per month). So right there you have nearly ALL of their 14.5%, plus...if profits continue to grow (which they are substantially in 2016) the cut to profit sharing actually increases and WILL turn into a paycut starting in 2017.

As the IAM keeps telling you. That 12.5% profit sharing your talking about is STILL MORE than nothing, plus the pay raises they've received. Apparently, the IAM is using common core to figure the pay raises, etc., now.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
OOer
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:29 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
As the IAM keeps telling you. That 12.5% profit sharing your talking about is STILL MORE than nothing, plus the pay raises they've received. Apparently, the IAM is using common core to figure the pay raises, etc., now.

Of course it's more then nothing...but it's MUCH less than before. So again, if I move something from my left hand over to my right hand...do I have more of it? Common sense would say no. A Delta cheerleader who can't grasp the concept of income and arithmetic would say yes.
 
winginit
Posts: 3067
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:24 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 82):

and even more arrogance! Shocking. And did you even read my reply? Maybe literacy isn't your strong suit, and I can't for the life of me figure out where you got this notion that I throw bags.

Quoting reltney (Reply 82):
I know you job as well as my own.

do you? You've worked in a US3 headquarters building?

Quoting reltney (Reply 82):
We get paid different because of responsibility and what revenue we bring in.

You're exactly right, but I think you've mistaken which side of the fence you're on here.

Quoting reltney (Reply 82):
If you don't like it, don't be jealous, you should have checked the pilot box on the application.

Oh I'm very happy here in headquarters thank you.

[Edited 2016-01-25 06:43:18]
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18520
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:41 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 82):
We get paid different because of responsibility and what revenue we bring in.

You don't bring in any revenue. Your pay has no correlation to revenue.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5532
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:44 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 92):
You don't bring in any revenue.

So if the pilots stopped flying, Delta would still bring in the same revenue?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 92):
Your pay has no correlation to revenue.

It partially does. Larger planes tend to bring in more revenue and thus pilots get paid more to fly larger metal.
 
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Polot
Posts: 11393
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:51 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 93):
So if the pilots stopped flying, Delta would still bring in the same revenue?

That same reasoning can be applied to every single DL employee.

Very few people are purchasing tickets on DL (aka bringing in revenue) because of the pilots. This is true with every airline.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 93):
It partially does. Larger planes tend to bring in more revenue and thus pilots get paid more to fly larger metal.

Remember, correlation does not imply causation though.
They get paid more because they have greater responsibility (more souls on board). They are not getting paid more because they are bringing in more revenue. If DL outfits a 737 or A320 with exclusively first class suites should those pilots get paid more than others because they have more revenue on board?

[Edited 2016-01-25 06:52:41]
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
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RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:06 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 93):

So if the pilots stopped flying, Delta would still bring in the same revenue? It partially does. Larger planes tend to bring in more revenue and thus pilots get paid more to fly larger metal.


That's beyond stretching for an argument. A junior lawyer at a law firms bills clients that the partner has brought in, bringing in revenue. But in reality, the partner is responsible for bringing in the revenue, and could hire from a glut of lawyers to do fulfill the work. Often, actually getting reliability billable clients is more challenging than doing the work. Nor is it any different than saying a McDonald's "crew member" should be paid $30/hour since if they weren't there cooking food, McD's would have no revenue.

The only people at DL responsible for bringing in revenue are those working in marketing & sales. The pilots just simply fly planes full of tickets that other people have sold.

I generally support labor, but the pilots insisting they deserve $400K/year are just as bad as the CEOs insisting they deserve $200M/year. Markets drive wages, and clearly there's no shortage of people willing to fly planes for $70K/year, let alone what the DL pilots want. It isn't about what you THINK you should make -- we all think we're underpaid.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5532
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:12 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 94):
That same reasoning can be applied to every single DL employee.

That's true, which is why I disagree with Maverick's point that the pilots don't bring in any revenue. All employees bring in revenue...except for maybe a few who work in very ancillary areas.

Quoting polot (Reply 94):
They get paid more because they have greater responsibility (more souls on board).

But that's not really true either. A pilot flying a 737 on four 2 hour flights (total 8 hours) will end up responsible for far more lives than a pilot flying a 777 on one 8 hour flight. However, the 777 driver will get paid more.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18520
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:13 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 93):
So if the pilots stopped flying, Delta would still bring in the same revenue?

Same could be said about anyone in the operation; do aircraft marshalers bring in revenue? Pilots don't bring in revenue. Wage is a function of your replacement cost more than anything. It's harder to replace a pilot than a flight attendant, hence the higher pay.

Quoting polot (Reply 94):
Remember, correlation does not imply causation though.
They get paid more because they have greater responsibility (more souls on board).

  Probably has a lot more to do with seniority and leverage than responsibility. Do mainline 717 crews have three times the responsibility as regional 70 seaters? Nope.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 95):
Markets drive wages, and clearly there's no shortage of people willing to fly planes for $70K/year, let alone what the DL pilots want. It isn't about what you THINK you should make -- we all think we're underpaid.

  Pilot wages are going up, and it's not because responsibility or revenue is increasing.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
slvrblt
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:20 pm

I think pilots SHOULD be paid a substantial amount, I have no problem with that. They fly multi million dollar machines with a lot of people on board and do have much responsibility. I'd just like to see one of them act once in a while like the world didn't revolve exclusively for their benefit, to the exclusion of everyone else.

You are part of a TEAM, guys. And by the way, the company you work for has something called SHAREHOLDERS. They'd like a return on their investment too.
..everything works out in the end.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5532
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: DL Announces Q4 2015 Profit $1.45 Billion USD

Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:27 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 95):
Markets drive wages, and clearly there's no shortage of people willing to fly planes for $70K/year, let alone what the DL pilots want.

Markets do drive wages and the market can support pilots making more. DL is rolling in profits. How much more? Well that's up to DL's management and the DL pilots to negotiate.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 95):
It isn't about what you THINK you should make -- we all think we're underpaid.

No, it's about what you negotiate for.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 95):
Markets drive wages, and clearly there's no shortage of people willing to fly planes for $70K/year, let alone what the DL pilots want.

You might want to ask the regional airlines about that. If DL paid it's pilots 70K, it would quickly find very few pilots willing to work for DL.

And using that logic, are you saying DL should slash the pay of flight attendants? DL gets an avalanche of people applying for FA jobs and the job requires minimal skill. So are you arguing that DL should pay its FA's $8/hr?

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