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santos
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:19 pm

Azul to start a 3 weekly service from VCP to LIS from the 4th May.
Only source I found has been in Portuguese!
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=52754
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:29 pm

Wow didn't see that coming but makes sense.
@DadCelo
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:30 pm

I'm quite suprised! Flight times out by chance?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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dabpit
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:32 pm

Not really a big surprise. Congrats to Azul!!! Given how poor the economy in Brazil is glad to see it is starting as weekly service.
Carpe Diem
 
santos
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:36 pm

Maybe it will start as a weekly service but will be increased to 6 a week during high season according to the news article.
Will TP drop it's VCP route in favour of another route?
 
airbazar
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:40 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 4):
Will TP drop it's VCP route in favour of another route?
TP just announced the routes that they are dropping, last week and VCP wasn't one of them. I think LIS-VCP now makes more sense than ever before because VCP is Azul's hub. Wouldn't surprise me to see this go up to 6x or daily, with the flights split between Azul and TAP. I would not be shocked to see Azul and TP apply for am equipment neutral TATL JV in the near future.

[Edited 2016-01-21 08:41:22]
 
402679
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:59 pm

I think TP will stop flying to VCP and Azul will take the route.

The refurbished A330 have the same seats in C as the Iberia/Alitalia ones. That's really nice!
Even better than the ones that TP is currently using in their aircraft.


What makes this route a viable one, i.m.o. is that there are a lot of Azul regional flights to their hub in VCP, and at LIS there are the TP ones to reach a lot of european countries!

I think it's a win win situation. This release some TP widebodies to use in new routes to North America.
 
a380787
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:01 pm

VCP-MAD shouldn't be far away ... I'm guessing a May 2017 launch.
 
airbazar
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:26 pm

Quoting geoshina (Reply 6):
I think TP will stop flying to VCP and Azul will take the route.

We'll see. VCP is a seasonal route for TP. Given that TAP and Azul are owned by the same guy, if that was the intent I think VCP would have been in the list of dropped routes that was announced just last week.

Quoting geoshina (Reply 6):
Even better than the ones that TP is currently using in their aircraft.

Not for long. TP will be refurbishing their A332's to be exactly like Azul's A332's, with flat beds in C, Y+ will be added, and AVOD installed throughout the cabin. The first 2 A330's with this configuration will arrive this year (presumably leased from Azul), with the rest being done in 2017.
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=52756
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=52757
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5790
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:45 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 7):
VCP-MAD shouldn't be far away ... I'm guessing a May 2017 launch.

I can't really see it. VCP-LIS will become a hub-to-hub option (Azul and TAP).

VCP-MAD would have no competition.

Also MAD-GRU is very crowded. You have Iberia, Air Europa, TAM and Air China (Air China sells tickets super cheap on that 5th freedom). With the economic situation in Brazil (even if MAD is growing quite strongly at the moment; but SAO is more of a business and local Brazilian market) I can't see the need or business model for a 5th carrier on MAD-SAO.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:00 pm

Didn't see it coming at all. Funny how we wondered if JJ would start LIS just yesterday. The chances of that are close to zero now.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:29 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 10):
Didn't see it coming at all. Funny how we wondered if JJ would start LIS just yesterday. The chances of that are close to zero now.

Visionnaires  

I wouldn't say it is impossible. TAM is a brand-name in Brazil, and LATAM is going to be a gorilla in Latin America. TAM in LIS would appeal not only to the large Portugal-Brazil relations but also GRU as a hub to further Latin America.

It is interesting that now that TAP and TAM have parted ways, and TAP has cancelled BOG and PTY; outside Brazil, LIS is not particularly well connected to the rest of Latin America, unless via MAD.

Look at BCN, SQ used to fly BCN-GRU alone (with quite empty flights) and now TAM has started with over 80% in low European season.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:46 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
The first 2 A330's with this configuration will arrive this year (presumably leased from Azul), with the rest being done in 2017.

Will they be assigned to a particular route? Perhaps to EWR since they are competing with UA's superior J product on that route?
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:03 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 12):

They already stated numerous times JFK I think.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
airbazar
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 13):

They already stated numerous times JFK I think.

Uh? They haven't announced any new destinations.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:11 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):

They said though that if they fly to NYC they will fly to JFK.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:05 am

It was only a natural step for Azul considering they don't have where to send the widebody fleet they leased. They had big plans for the US, but they will not be able to go through with them.

Even though TAP is vowing to keep the route, I believe they will pull out by W16/17. They are playing a scene for the employees and regulators, so that nobody dares to accuse them of working against the interests of TAP.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
VCP is a seasonal route for TP.

The frequency varies seasonally, but the route is not seasonal.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 10):

Didn't see it coming at all. Funny how we wondered if JJ would start LIS just yesterday. The chances of that are close to zero now.

Actually, TAM is quite reactive. If only the economic crisis weren't affecting the airline as much as it is.
 
airbazar
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:10 am

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 15):

They said though that if they fly to NYC they will fly to JFK.

They already fly to EWR from both LIS and OPO and have been doing so for many years.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
It was only a natural step for Azul considering they don't have where to send the widebody fleet they leased. They had big plans for the US, but they will not be able to go through with them.

2 of Azul's A332's are now in LIS, leased by TAP.
 
incitatus
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:39 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
It was only a natural step for Azul considering they don't have where to send the widebody fleet they leased. They had big plans for the US, but they will not be able to go through with them.

Well I guess between losing 20 million USD in CNFMCO or VCPJFK and losing only 10 million USD in VCPLIS, the decision is no-brainer!

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
Even though TAP is vowing to keep the route, I believe they will pull out by W16/17.

I agree. But I wonder how coordinating capacity plays out legally between TAP, Azul and Brazil/EU. In the US airlines can only coordinate capacity in joint ventures.

When will these flights open for sale? I expect deals out of this world in the first couple of weeks it goes on the market.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:03 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
2 of Azul's A332's are now in LIS, leased by TAP.

Yes, but that's not enough considering that AD was flying VCP-MCO double daily, planning GRU-MCO, VCP-JFK etc. Too many plans were not executed.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:50 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 19):
Yes, but that's not enough considering that AD was flying VCP-MCO double daily, planning GRU-MCO, VCP-JFK etc. Too many plans were not executed.

Oh I agree, but this could be just the beginning. Between the 2 leased to TP and the introduction of VCP-LIS we're already seeing a coordinated shift from the U.S. market to Europe by this new group. In addition, Neeleman said he wants TP to serve 10 new destinations in the U.S. for which they will certainly need more aircraft. Some of those will eventually be served with A321neo, I know but in the mean time with oil as cheap as it is, I wouldn't rule out more A332's.
 
744lover
Posts: 206
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:40 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
Oh I agree, but this could be just the beginning. Between the 2 leased to TP and the introduction of VCP-LIS we're already seeing a coordinated shift from the U.S. market to Europe by this new group. In addition, Neeleman said he wants TP to serve 10 new destinations in the U.S. for which they will certainly need more aircraft. Some of those will eventually be served with A321neo, I know but in the mean time with oil as cheap as it is, I wouldn't rule out more A332's.

With the Brazil-US traffic winding down due to the BRL devaluation, Azul had to re-study its long haul plan. I do think that FLL and MCO are profitable (Azul was the only airline in Brazil to make a profit last year) but entering fierce competition in the NYC area (UA to EWR, DL AA and JJ to JFK) would mean stretching its margins even more.

What I'm seeing is Azul approaching everytime more StarAlliance. First with UA, now with TP.

My money bet is that it will, once LIS is solidified, open a 3x week flight to FRA so that its passengers can connect to middle east and Asia with LH... and, why not, become a Star member...

Just my   

BR,
744lover
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting 744lover (Reply 21):
My money bet is that it will, once LIS is solidified, open a 3x week flight to FRA so that its passengers can connect to middle east and Asia with LH... and, why not, become a Star member...

For that I think IST has a lot more to offer than FRA, especially with the new airport opening in a couple of years.
I could however see them start CDG. IIRC France is the number 1 sender of European visitors to Brazil so to me that seems like an obvious destination in Europe.
LIS for European connections.
IST for Asian connections
CDG for French O&D
 
LPSHobby
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:14 pm

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:40 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
For that I think IST has a lot more to offer than FRA, especially with the new airport opening in a couple of years.
I could however see them start CDG. IIRC France is the number 1 sender of European visitors to Brazil so to me that seems like an obvious destination in Europe.
LIS for European connections.
IST for Asian connections
CDG for French O&D

and Paris is the number 1 city for brazilian tourists in Europe
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:28 pm

There you go, CNF-MCO is cancelled.
 
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DolphinAir747
Posts: 1901
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RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:58 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 24):

There you go, CNF-MCO is cancelled.


Leisure routes like these can't stay long during a crisis, though that being said JJ is just about to make MCO its first A350 route so who knows?
 
bmibaby737
Posts: 1639
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:07 am

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:04 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
2 of Azul's A332's are now in LIS, leased by TAP.

They're all still showing as in service with Azul, none are in Portugal.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:26 pm

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 26):
They're all still showing as in service with Azul, none are in Portugal.

You're right. There was some confusion with two "blue tail" A332's parked in LIS combined with TP's announcement that it was leasing 2 of Azul's A332's. By the way, TP has now filed to start BOS and JFK with those 2 A332's.
 
Skyeurope
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:30 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
You're right. There was some confusion with two "blue tail" A332's parked in LIS

The "blue tail" 332 is a HiFly one.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:18 pm

It is a route that may present a challenge.

LIS is the best served market in Brazil with non-stops to all key Brazilian markets. Hard to think from where they will capture traffic to fill the planes.
Seems that they will have to rely more on VCP-LIS and VCP-Europe.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3078
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Azul To Start VCP-LIS

Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:26 am

Quoting geoshina (Reply 6):
I think TP will stop flying to VCP and Azul will take the route

It might be. I don't visualize room for two airlines, in such route.
TP LIS-VCP is active since February 2008.
Their frequencies had varied from 5x to 2x weekly, at this time.
TP LIS-VCP marketed as a code-share flight by AD.

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