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ASA
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:07 pm

Quoting CX747 (Reply 29):

Roseflyer hit the nail on the head. Both Airbus and Boeing aircraft can be sanctioned. The current U.S. leadership has turned a semi-blind eye to Iran acquiring aircraft lately. That could all change with a blink of an eye. What new aircraft could Iran get on property as fast as possible? I suspect signing up for end of the line 737NGs would be the shortest wait. Boeing would like to keep 77W production at its current level. Grabbing some end of the line frames on that program wouldn't require such a long wait either. Brand new aircraft on Iranian soil in the form of 737NG and 777W is jumping light years from where they are now. The same can be said of A320s and A330s. I just think that the wait time on A320NEOs and A330s would be longer. If the engineers can keep 707s flying, it wouldn't be that difficult to keep 737NG and 77Ws in the air.

What about in the future? Say most planes have been delivered - but hard sanctions have returned (for any number of reasons that are possible) - which planes (A or B) would be easier to operate and get spare parts for? I'm assuming Iran is thinking of getting as many intact birds as quickly as possible .... hence the mix of old and new ... but also with the plan for hard times in mind. Is most likelihood, the chances of a US-only sanction is much higher. Although Airbus planes have lots of US parts ... once the planes are in, what will matter is getting services and spares ... which would be easier to get from Europe (for political reasons ... and also for geographical reasons). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:24 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 43):
Its not about Immigrants this is about US citizens who travel to Iran no longer being able to have visa free travel to the EU.

Immigrants are not necessarily non-citizens. I was referring to them as if they were.

Quoting mariner (Reply 44):
It's called leverage - not much, maybe, but some perhaps, depending on the size of the contract. But absent a contract there is no leverage at all.

ok, but just doubt the impact here. Tiny.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 46):
The opposite: EU citizens who go to Iran needing a visa for the US. Isn't there an exemption for non-touristic travel?

Right.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 47):
All visa agreements are reciprocal if US inconveniences EU citizens visiting US then EU imposes the same conditions on US citizens visiting the EU.

That reciprocity is not automatic. And again the EU has been vocally not in favor of this. Highly doubt they would inconvenience Americans just because Europeans were inconvenienced. Hopefully our relations are less petty.

tortugamon
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:02 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 8):
Misleading title - nothing specific about Boeings - this thread can be merged with the other threads.

How about looking at Iranian sources?

PressTV
Iran eyes buying over 100 Boeing jets

Iran seeks to buy more than 100 aircraft from US aircraft maker Boeing as part of a plan to renovate its commercial aviation fleet, an official says.

The announcement by Deputy Transport Minister Asghar Fakhrieh Kashan, quoted by Reuters on Sunday, came as Iran opened its first international business event since the lifting of sanctions.

The CAPA Iran Aviation Summit opened in Tehran with the participation of airport, airline, travel and transportation industries exploring prospects for market development in Iran.

Boeing officials were about to attend the Tehran aviation summit but their trip was cancelled due to visa issues.

-50%
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2016/0...ran-aviation-Boeing-summit-Kashan/

Politics have blocked those Boeing officials from travelling to Tehran.

       
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
JayBCNLON
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 47):
All visa agreements are reciprocal if US inconveniences EU citizens visiting US then EU imposes the same conditions on US citizens visiting the EU.

Unfortunately not: US citizen do not need to submit themselves to an ESTA process. And they do not need to wait for hours in Immigration lines when visiting the EU.

I think it's quite deplorable that domestic US politics has an Impact on where I spend my vacations. What is different between Iran without sancations and Cuba? Why is Iran on that list and not Cuba?
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:43 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
Nobody else does. Why should they?

becaus they need airplanes now and not tomorrow? Instead of used A340?

[Edited 2016-01-25 08:52:29]
 
ASA
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:49 pm

Quoting nimool (Reply 21):
1. Iran is considering buying planes from US manufacturer Boeing as it moves to upgrade its fleet following the removal of UN sanctions

2. Iran's deputy transport minister Asghar Fakhrieh Kashan told Reuters that Iran is interested in buying 100 aircraft.

To me both of these sentences sounds as Iran is looking at or rather considering Boeing, who what so misleading about this thread my friend? 
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 53):
How about looking at Iranian sources?

PressTV
Iran eyes buying over 100 Boeing jets

You guys/gals are correct. I went looking for more sources and another Reuters article ... it indeed sounds like Iran showed interest in 100+ Boeings ... not sure if they are mixing trade and politics with an agenda here   But for now apparently they are sticking to Airbus frames for a reason.
 
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CARST
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:38 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 56):
But for now apparently they are sticking to Airbus frames for a reason.

That reason is only that the USA still have a lot of embargos going on for made-up reasons like the Iran supporting terrorism and the Iranian missle program. BTW as I don't want to make this more political as it already is, perhaps the USA is right with their embargos, but then Saudi Arabia and Qatar must be placed under the same embargos.

I have no doubt, as soon as the USA lift these embargos, that there will be a huge Boeing order. The Iranian Transportation minister said they need about 500 aircraft for their long-term plans. So 120 from Airbus and 100+ from Boeing still seems like half the final order.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:43 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 57):
I have no doubt, as soon as the USA lift these embargos, that there will be a huge Boeing order. The Iranian Transportation minister said they need about 500 aircraft for their long-term plans. So 120 from Airbus and 100+ from Boeing still seems like half the final order.

They don't have to buy new. They can lease for a start or buy used ones in very good condition.

B747-400 can do the job nicely for long haul routes, 10 hours + flights.
British Airways and Lufthansa still do them with older frames and they are happy.
They will still be flying them a while longer.

     
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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mariner
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 58):
They don't have to buy new. They can lease for a start or buy used ones in very good condition.

Sure, they could.

But all the available evidence suggests they want to go with new - except for a small handful of A340's available immediately, and as part of an overall deal for new-builds.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Amiga500
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:12 pm

If I was in charge of Iranian procurement, I wouldn't touch Boeing and would minimise US content in any purchase I would make. I would also be looking to migrate to Russian products as soon as feasibly possible.


My fleet would look something like (bottom to top):

SuperJet - purchased
A320 - leased (with intention of replacing with MS-21 purchases in 5 or so years time)
A330 - purchased (and purchase ceo frames, look to build up significant spares through acquiring aircraft for parting out.)
A340 - purchased (buy big cheap bundle of them and retain many for spares)
A380 - leased from Amedeo (Having A380s in the fleet gives the Iranians bargaining power and prestige they otherwise wouldn't have).


edit: Note, I'm not anti-Boeing, I think Airbus have completely f__ked up their strategic position and arrived at where they are today by fluke - but being realistic - how stupid would the Iranians look if they paid out billions for airframes this year and ended up with a grounded fleet 'cos of no spares in 2 years time?

As Stone Cold would say - DTA - Don't Trust America

[Edited 2016-01-25 11:15:40]
 
UA444
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 60):

Iran can buy all theRussian planes they want to right now. They don't want them. They want Western aircraft.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:25 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 47):
All visa agreements are reciprocal

'There's no such thing as a visa agreement. Visa requirements are imposed unilaterally by sovereign states. There may be tit for tat responses, but visa requirements are not founded on reciprocal agreement.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
Amiga500
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:47 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 61):

Iran can buy all theRussian planes they want to right now. They don't want them. They want Western aircraft.


Don't know where this led to....

https://www.rt.com/news/316641-russia-iran-aerospace-deal/

https://www.rt.com/business/329287-iran-russia-planes-talks/


I think its a fools errand chasing aircraft that you pay a pretty penny for today, and could be unusable tomorrow!
 
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par13del
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:53 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 60):
how stupid would the Iranians look if they paid out billions for airframes this year and ended up with a grounded fleet 'cos of no spares in 2 years time?

So the risk of the EU joining in on any new sanctions against Iran is non-existent?
Ok.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:09 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 64):
Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 60):
how stupid would the Iranians look if they paid out billions for airframes this year and ended up with a grounded fleet 'cos of no spares in 2 years time?

So the risk of the EU joining in on any new sanctions against Iran is non-existent?
Ok.

Let us refine the scenario, if the Iran does something against the current agreements and sanctions are renewed, than there is a high likelihood of the EU joining.

If the USA having voted in a new President and with a republican congress decides they do not like the current deal and scrap it, than renew sanctions, I think there is only an outside chance of the EU following.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:11 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 57):
Saudi Arabia and Qatar must be placed under the same embargos.

        
 
Bluebird191
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:28 pm

I'm intrigued with the talk with Iran, particularly IR purchasing the A380. With the early builds coming off lease at EK and SQ this could be an easier, cheaper and quicker way for IR to acquire these, but I'm not seeing much more of an intent here other than to keep up with the Jones. With the likes of EK, EY and QR all virtually next door to Iran and the recently almost totally liberate Iranian aerospace industry, I'm personally not seeing much more than an "they have them so we'll buy some too" mentality. Same thing happened with MH and TG. There won't be a great demand for the capacity of an A380 except on some domestic routes, but even then, would 8 be enough, or too many? The used examples of the A346, 777's (that EK will say goodbye to off lease), or even 744's or 748's would be better suited capacity wise, and would be able to flown internationally without bleeding as much cash in the process.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:37 pm

To all those arguing no deal can possibly happen until after the election... I wouldn't assume that. It's in both Boeing's and Iran's interest to get a provisional deal done before the election, to make it very clear how much Boeing and its US employees, suppliers, and vendors stand to lose if a candidate who would tear up the nuclear deal is elected. There is no reason such a deal would have to be structured in such a way that anyone would lose deposits; a nonbinding but highly public LOI of the sort that Boeing often signs with other customers would suffice.

And all of the Republicans say they would tear up the deal, but when push comes to shove I expect only a few of them would actually do it. As would be demonstrated by a large Boeing order, there is too much to lose.

As for what Boeings would be attractive...

1) If there are still near-term 737NG production slots, the country could absorb as many 737-800s as the lender community could possibly stomach.
2) 737 MAX 8, for the back portion of a large order
3) 787-10 for routes to Europe and east Asia
4) 777-300ER, maybe, for denser routes that can't quite fit an A380.

I don't foresee Iran being a 747 customer in the short term; I think that business will go to the A380. I think the 777X is too costly to acquire.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:43 pm

Quoting WIederling (Reply 49):

This is a long standing trend. also look at the engine single source polarization RR+Airbus and GE+Boeing in recent times.

Even Rolls Royce Trent engines have US sourced parts such as the gearbox, IDG, hydraulic pumps, fuel pumps etc. significant Rolls engineering and manufacturing is in Indiana.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 33):

If US wants to sanction high tech equipment then yes it hits Airbus and Boeing, this will not please the EU if it seen to scupper a European contract for no good reason and there may be consequences.

The US government can and will block sales of components for a product destined for Iran without the sanctions lifted. Airbus and its suppliers can lose its US import/export licenses.

There is no way that Airbus can build a plane without any US company involvement. Excluding GE, Pratt, UTC aero systems, Honeywell, Rockwell, Eaton, etc would be impossible. There are not enough competent suppliers outside the United States for Airbus to competitively select parts without US content. It is the US companies that would lose their export licenses. If they know the part is being sold to one of the blacklisted countries they can't sell it even if it goes via Airbus.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 68):
And all of the Republicans say they would tear up the deal, but when push comes to shove I expect only a few of them would actually do it. As would be demonstrated by a large Boeing order, there is too much to lose.

I agree. The lobbyists working to defeat the Iran deal such as the pro Israel lobbyists in Washington DC won't be able to overcome th lobbying of Americas industrial Titans like GE. Boeing, UTC etc once airplane orders are made a billions of dollars in trade is on the line. The politicians will pontificate about throwing away the deal, but when it comes to action, I don't see it happening with the amount of money at stake. American politicians all talk about jobs jobs jobs when discussing proposals that lobbyists want. The American industrial companies will actually be able to tie jobs to improved Iran trade.

[Edited 2016-01-25 15:06:53]

[Edited 2016-01-25 15:32:42]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
tortugamon
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:17 pm

Quoting JayBCNLON (Reply 54):
Why is Iran on that list and not Cuba?

It has to do with states that sponsor terrorism. Cuba is no longer on that list. Iran does.

tortugamon
 
mham001
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:25 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 53):
The announcement by Deputy Transport Minister Asghar Fakhrieh Kashan, quoted by Reuters on Sunday, came as Iran opened its first international business event since the lifting of sanctions.

They are all quoting the same article with the same parsed statements. Nothing is clear about that ONE quote.

Quoting CARST (Reply 57):
perhaps the USA is right with their embargos, but then Saudi Arabia and Qatar must be placed under the same embargos.

When Saudi Arabia and Qatar develop a missile with the ability to carry the nuclear warhead they have shown ambition to create, expect something like that to happen.

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 69):
The US government can and will block sales of components for a product destined for Iran without the sanctions listed. Airbus and its suppliers can lose its US import/export licenses.

I have been wondering about this. Is Airbus even able to deliver planes to Iran?
 
Amiga500
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:06 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 64):
So the risk of the EU joining in on any new sanctions against Iran is non-existent?
Ok.

The Iranians themselves have said Airbus never abandoned them in the same manner as Boeing.
 
Egerton
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:45 am

The opening post was "Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order"

They were looking away?
 
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hilram
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:55 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 70):

Based on that criteria, all aircraft sales (and trade in general) with Qatar and Saudi Arabia should be suspended...
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:14 am

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 72):
The Iranians themselves have said Airbus never abandoned them in the same manner as Boeing.

That's correct. One of their big gripes is that Boeing would not deliver technical manuals to Iranian Airlines. The manuals as you many of you know are essential for safe flight and you have to be kind of a dick not to deliver that. Airbus never withheld that and safety related parts got through.

The vast majority of airplane crashes in Iran were American and Russian planes not Airbus. The main Airbus that crashed is the one the US shot down (A300). No other A300s, or A340s have been lost to crashes to my knowledge.

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 69):
agree. The lobbyists working to defeat the Iran deal such as the pro Israel lobbyists in Washington DC won't be able to overcome th lobbying of Americas industrial Titans like GE. Boeing, UTC etc once airplane orders are made a billions of dollars in trade is on the line

I agree. The Persian penchant for American cars and Apple devices is leaking out in Western Media and these larger corps want in. The are desperate enough they will place a larger order with Boeing too I think.

Personally, I would not send my money to the nation that was behind the sanctions in the first place but they don't seem like they are interested in a grudge match over it.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:44 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 75):
That's correct. One of their big gripes is that Boeing would not deliver technical manuals to Iranian Airlines. The manuals as you many of you know are essential for safe flight and you have to be kind of a dick not to deliver that. Airbus never withheld that and safety related parts got through.

The US government banned such documents from boeing. Unlike airplane parts, manuals are intellectual property and exclusively created outside US jurisdiction for Airbus.

[Edited 2016-01-26 18:45:19]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
olle
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:59 am

I strongly consider that Iran is definatly not a perfect country to deal with. But, the region at the moment do not show too many good examples.

Saudi Arabia is definatly not one of them and they do

Support terrorism or have too many terrorists coming from the country
Have atomic bomb or access to.

By the way if atomic bomb is a reason to be cut away from the international family both india, israel, pakistan and saudi is candidates.

West needs iran right now to clean the mess in iraq and syria.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:26 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 75):
One of their big gripes is that Boeing would not deliver technical manuals to Iranian Airlines. The manuals as you many of you know are essential for safe flight and you have to be kind of a dick not to deliver that.

The gripe is with Congress, not Boeing.

Quoting olle (Reply 77):
I strongly consider that Iran is definatly not a perfect country to deal with. But, the region at the moment do not show too many good examples.

The main factor leading to the isolation of Iran isn't that Iran is a particularly worse actor than several other Middle Eastern countries, all of which have much to answer for. (Iran isn't better, either -- its support of terrorism is reprehensible.) It's that the West has relatively little influence with the Iranian leadership and finds it unpredictable. Saudi Arabia or Qatar may fund mosques with extremist preachers and dabble around with nukes, but the need for Western support ensures they're not going to bomb Israel, kidnap Americans, or cut off the oil supply. By contrast, Iran has either done or threatened to do all of those things -- whether to thumb its nose at the West or to desperately try to grab the West's attention, no one knows. If the administration's policy engagement can result in Western support being more critical to sustain the Iranian economy -- still very much an open question -- then it will very much reduce risk to the West from Iranian antics and is the right policy.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:00 am

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 72):
The Iranians themselves have said Airbus never abandoned them in the same manner as Boeing.

60+ American hostages for 444 days...

Quoting hilram (Reply 74):
Based on that criteria, all aircraft sales (and trade in general) with Qatar and Saudi Arabia should be suspended...

QR and SA are not on that list either and maybe (definitely) they should be but we can have that argument/conversation. The conversation was about Cuba. In recent memory the case for terrorism there is weaker.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 75):
That's correct. One of their big gripes is that Boeing would not deliver technical manuals to Iranian Airlines. The manuals as you many of you know are essential for safe flight and you have to be kind of a dick not to deliver that. Airbus never withheld that and safety related parts got through.

Lets get facts straight here. Boeing would have violated US law and execs could have gone to prison for sending such things. Birth control was off limits for heaven's sake.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 75):
The vast majority of airplane crashes in Iran were American and Russian planes not Airbus

Hmm, any idea how much of the Iranian fleet is from Airbus? Airbus was not a major player in commercial aviation when the sanctions were put in place. Would not expect any different. Nor would I expect Iran not to trash the US. That is pretty clear.

Quoting olle (Reply 77):
West needs iran right now to clean the mess in iraq and syria.

Syrians fighting Assad don't think so.

tortugamon
 
AsoRock
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:37 am

Quoting olle (Reply 77):
By the way if atomic bomb is a reason to be cut away from the international family both india, israel, pakistan and saudi is candidates.


Please correct your statement as Saudi Arabia does not pocess any nuclear weapons nor is it pursuing anything beyond a peaceful atomic energy program working with international known atomic energy firms.
 
columba
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:05 am

The 747-8I has a better hot and high performance than the 77W which could be useful in Teheran.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Amiga500
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:26 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 79):
Lets get facts straight here. Boeing would have violated US law and execs could have gone to prison for sending such things. Birth control was off limits for heaven's sake.

So in future, the US could decide to impose sanctions again leaving any Boeing that Iran would order grounded.

Airbus, due to their operating under a different legislature, wouldn't be impacted the same way.


Which brings us back to the main point - why would you risk ordering Boeing ahead of Airbus? I wouldn't.
 
Amiga500
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:28 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 79):
Syrians fighting Assad don't think so.

Which Syrians?

The ISIS Syrians?

The Al Qaeda Syrians?

or the "moderate" Syrians?
 
Planesmart
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:07 am

Certain EU countries and Airbus are negotiating a package deal for new and used aircraft, finance, training, expertise and airport re-development. Happening in Cuba too. Don't get left behind USA and Boeing. A certain US super salesman is earning his salary and bonuses again already this year.
 
flybyguy
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:23 am

Does the US State Department have authority to change export control policy? If so, does this mean that the US Congress needs to act to make such policies permanent? I assume that if Congress does not have to act, Boeing is more concerned about a Republican winning this year's election and reversing all of the Obama Administration's policies concerning Iran. A deal struck this year will likely leave Boeing with a healthy backlog of Iranian airplanes to deliver, but no money from Iran to pay for them.

I'm thinking that the uncertainty concerning US policy towards Iran in 2017 is very much benefiting Airbus because any snap back to sanctions, based on US political distrust of Iran (and not violations of the nuclear agreements) will not be met by international sanctions. All the countries that help draft the accord will NOT join the US in imposing sanctions unless Iran violates the terms of the agreement. So Iran can continue to buy and sell to all the countries of the world but the united states and maybe a tiny subset some of its staunchest allies.

I think its safe to say that the European Union will not be imposing new sanctions against Iran for the foreseeable future and Iran is so desperate to update its crumbling infrastructure and revitalize its economy that the regime (for the most part) will behave themselves to ensure that there isn't a recurrence of insurrection due to economic difficulties.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
tortugamon
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:05 am

Quoting AsoRock (Reply 80):
Please correct your statement as Saudi Arabia does not pocess any nuclear weapons nor is it pursuing anything beyond a peaceful atomic energy program working with international known atomic energy firms.

I would think all options would be on the table. There has been speculation about buying them from Pakistan. Certainly they could develop the technology as well. I would say nothing has been proven definitively but I would suggest highly that they are actively considering these options in light of current events.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 82):
So in future, the US could decide to impose sanctions again leaving any Boeing that Iran would order grounded.

Absolutely, could happen. But the US/UN agreement is pretty clear on what would constitute a violation.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 82):
Airbus, due to their operating under a different legislature, wouldn't be impacted the same way.

Airbus currently does not produce an commercial airplane that doesn't have a significant amount of US-sourced parts. Additionally, any violation of sanctions that the US/UN agrees upon will likely be agreed upon in Europe as well (and vice versa).

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 83):
Which Syrians?

Solid point, but there are some. Kurds for example. Its not just Assad plus Iran vs ISIS there.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 85):
Boeing is more concerned about a Republican winning this year's election and reversing all of the Obama Administration's policies concerning Iran.

No future US president can/will undue these actions in the near term without a Iran violation. The agreement is in place and a president needs to honor previous agreements or certain parts of the World would be in turmoil every time there is a new President. Even our very outspoken Trump, who is adamantly against this agreement, said he wouldn't work to revoke it (if he could); some agreements need to be honored and move on. Plus rallying the international community against the agreement after what has been done to support it is an unrealistic expectation - something a reasonably President wouldn't undertake. I do note my use of the word reasonable.

Europe and the US are in the same boat when it comes to this deal and I don't see either acting unilaterally on a significant level.

tortugamon
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:19 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 79):
Hmm, any idea how much of the Iranian fleet is from Airbus? Airbus was not a major player in commercial aviation when the sanctions were put in place.

It was US heavy for a time but the A300's were bought in 1980 and the A320s have been around for a while too. If you look at the list of accidents, there in fact 0 Airbus crashes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_Aviation_Accidents_and_Incidents

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 79):
Lets get facts straight here. Boeing would have violated US law and execs could have gone to prison for sending such things. Birth control was off limits for heaven's sake.

It's clearly a flight safety issue. If you have to drop off a loaner copy at ICAO HQ in Montreal for some Iranian to Xerox thats what you do.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 78):
The gripe is with Congress, not Boeing.

It still is but you're splitting hairs. From their point of view, it doesn't really matter and they obviously took personal offence to it and I dont blame them.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 78):
The main factor leading to the isolation of Iran isn't that Iran is a particularly worse actor than several other Middle Eastern countries, all of which have much to answer for. (Iran isn't better, either -- its support of terrorism is reprehensible.) It's that the West has relatively little influence with the Iranian leadership and finds it unpredictable.

Honestly I don't think they support terrorism. They have a foreign legion (Hezbollah) that is also a political party and its own entity. Its assumed (incorrectly), that everything they do is accountable and directed by Iran. This is demonstrably false.

And frankly I find Iran's leadership much more predictable than America's "allies" who decided to I dunno....CHOP OFF 47 HEADS IN THE DESERT AFTER NEW YEARS.

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 76):
The US government banned such documents from boeing. Unlike airplane parts, manuals are intellectual property and

The whole purpose of the ICAO treaties is to promote safe civilian flight for all nations. The US violated that with their laws so it's their fault anyway.

And by the way, anyone ever wonder what the hell Boeing parts has to do with terrorism? I mean if you want to get back at someone fine, but who is the American idiot that first suggested hey lets sanction planes? Go sanction oil, at least that doesn't get anyone killed in a fireball. Truly the Axis of Idiots.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:44 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 87):
It's clearly a flight safety issue. If you have to drop off a loaner copy at ICAO HQ in Montreal for some Iranian to Xerox thats what you do.

And that would have been a violation by multiple countries then. It doesn't matter if it was a flight safety issue - it was the law.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 87):
It still is but you're splitting hairs. From their point of view, it doesn't really matter and they obviously took personal offence to it and I dont blame them.

And I personally don't blame the US gov't from installing punishments after their gov't sanctioned kidnapping 60 US embassy personnel for 444 days. That is not splitting hairs.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 87):
Honestly I don't think they support terrorism.

Then you live under a rock.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 87):
And frankly I find Iran's leadership much more predictable than America's "allies" who decided to I dunno....CHOP OFF 47 HEADS IN THE DESERT AFTER NEW YEARS.

So its ok to deal with Iran because Saudi is worse? Not saying I disagree but its a terrible argument.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 87):
The whole purpose of the ICAO treaties is to promote safe civilian flight for all nations. The US violated that with their laws so it's their fault anyway.

And the whole purpose of the US and the UN is to keep people safe and punish evil doers. I am pretty sure both of those organizations are more important. Who the F cares about the ICAO?!

I sincerely hope things improve from here. Very optimistic but holding my breath at the same time.

tortugamon
 
ASA
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:52 am

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 83):
Which Syrians?

The ISIS Syrians?

The Al Qaeda Syrians?

or the "moderate" Syrians?

Well said ... it would be funny ... if it weren't so ironic and sad.

The country is completely ruined and gone down the gutter ...
 
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enzo011
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:58 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 88):
And that would have been a violation by multiple countries then. It doesn't matter if it was a flight safety issue - it was the law.

You know it sounds you would be advocating murder as long as its legal. Its that kind of thinking that made it okay to enslave people. I only did it because it was legal and all that, you know?

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 88):
So its ok to deal with Iran because Saudi is worse? Not saying I disagree but its a terrible argument.

Its about being consistent. I guess this is why international relations are so screwed up, allowing one nation to abuse human rights but applying a standard against another for those same violations just because we can.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 88):
And the whole purpose of the US and the UN is to keep people safe and punish evil doers. I am pretty sure both of those organizations are more important. Who the F cares about the ICAO?!

Who decide who the evildoers are though? When you have nations that can be seen as those same evildoers having a veto at the UN that argument becomes difficult. History is full of people that, depends on how you decide to report it, the heroes and villains are almost interchangeable. It becomes more about who won and decided what the history would be.

Who cares about ICAO? If it is to promote the safety for all civilians around the world then you should most likely. What makes your life more important than someone that wasn't born in a developed nation? You just won the lottery, that's all.
 
Amiga500
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:14 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 86):
Solid point, but there are some. Kurds for example.

The same Kurds being bombed by NATO member Turkey?

I thought NATO were western.....?
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2645
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:17 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 87):
Truly the Axis of Idiots.

I like it!


[made me chuckle anyway]
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:42 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 88):

And I personally don't blame the US gov't from installing punishments after their gov't sanctioned kidnapping 60 US embassy personnel for 444 days. That is not splitting hairs.

Well, Iran and Cuba were under multiple sanctions for incidents that occured decades back, but Saudi Arabia whose policies and citizens led to 9/11, or Pakistan which directly supported taliban who in turn were supporters of 9/11 are major Non-Nato allies of US! All three axis of evil, Cuba, Iran and N Korea didn't sponsor any terrorist attacks against US or western countries in last couple of decades, but countries like Saudi, Pak etc whose policies directly contributed to terrorism are sold billions in arms and given aid. Go figure!

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 79):

Syrians fighting Assad don't think so.

The syrians that US tried to prop up against Assad, which were supported by ISIS? And those folks who took US arms and handed it off to ISIS? yeah, they don't like anyone supporting Assad!

US congress is too unpredictable ! I would rather Iran purchased Airbus aircraft with Rolls Royce engines, and minimized as much major US parts as possible.
 
holzmann
Posts: 599
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:54 pm

I assume this is a winner take all deal? And Airbus is already the winner...
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bobnwa
Posts: 4514
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:11 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Thread starter):
Iran's deputy transport minister Asghar Fakhrieh Kashan told Reuters that Iran is interested in buying 100 aircraft.
UN sanctions were lifted a week ago, allowing Airbus to negotiate a deal to sell 114 aircraft to Iran.

Where does it mention Boeing?
 
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speedbored
Posts: 2230
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:14 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 95):
Where does it mention Boeing?

Er .... here, perhaps:
"Iran is considering buying planes from US manufacturer Boeing"

Or in the title of the article:
"Iran eyes Boeing plane purchases as sanctions end"   
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:19 pm

I can't see IR ordering both the A380 and the B747-8i (upon U.S. Congress ending sanctions)...what reason or logic would that make?  confused 

[Edited 2016-01-28 07:21:29]
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BoeingVista
Posts: 2060
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:41 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 96):
"Iran eyes Boeing plane purchases as sanctions end"

Oops that headline is missing a word it should read

"Iran eyes Boeing plane purchases Airbus as sanctions end"   
BV
 
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7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
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RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:34 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 97):
I can't see IR ordering both the A380 and the B747-8i (upon U.S. Congress ending sanctions)...what reason or logic would that make?

Same logic DLH and KAL used.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19174
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Iran Air Looking At 100 Boeing Aircraft Order

Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:42 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 99):
Same logic DLH and KAL used.

If there was any realistic chance of Iran Air ordering 748s, Boeing probably wouldn't have just announced a production rate cut.

Given the size and make-up of the Airbus order, I'm struggling to see what Boeings Iran Air would need. The 118 Airbuses alone represents a significant increase in their fleet size.
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