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tonyflyboi
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What Happens To Airline Names

Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:27 am

Can someone help

What happens to airlines name once bought and merger in to the new company

who hold the name and right ?
 
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LAX772LR
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What Happens To Airline Names

Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:32 am

Depends on the country, but the newly created entity will initially retain rights to the name/IP of the old airline(s) for a time, even if they're no longer used.

In the USA, it becomes a matter of which type of IP protection (Copyright, Trademark, etc) they're attempting to retain, as Copyrights are limited by time, and Trademark is limited by public use.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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What Happens To Airline Names

Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:56 am

The name and trademarks will be held by whatever company bought it or the resulting merged company.

Said company can then hold on to the copyright and trademark or let the trademark lapse if they don't feel like footing the costs anymore.

Basically it's the same for any company. Nothing special for aviation specific stuff.
 
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vatveng
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What Happens To Airline Names

Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:09 am

In some cases, the surviving airline will use the name of the purchased airline(s) for other business units. US Airways was the best example of this: They renamed two of their wholly-owned regional/express carriers PSA and Piedmont, and used to have one named Allegheny (but merged that one into Piedmont around 2004). AA has kept the names, they are now Eagle carriers, but nobody yet knows what will happen to the US Airways name.
 
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LAX772LR
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What Happens To Airline Names

Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:39 am

Quoting vatveng (Reply 3):
In some cases, the surviving airline will use the name of the purchased airline(s) for other business units.

In other cases, the surviving airline will use the purchased airline's name for its primary operation: e.g. ValuJet taking Airtran's name.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Viscount724
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What Happens To Airline Names

Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:34 am

LX paid roughly $10 million to Swissair's bankruptcy liquidator for rights to the Swissair name, not because they planned to use it but because they didn't want anyone else to be able to use it.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:19 pm

The Pan Am name has been sold and resold several times.

When DL merged with NW, DL retained the rights to the NW name, logo and trademarks. This included the rights to our company service pins which are given out every 5 years. Many former NW personnel contacted the company that provided the pins and for a short period of time they were able to purchase them as the company had a sufficient back stock available. Then DL started issuing everyone their company service pins and forbade the company NW used from continuing to sell them to employees.

Now you have to go on eBay and watch for one to come on the market and bid just like everyone else. The pins for 25 years and up typically sell for over $200.00.
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bjorn14
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:11 am

Also Ron Perlman (Sequoia Cos.) bought the rights to Aloha out of bankruptcy court and has been trying to lease/sell them for years. I have heard we wants a huge amount of money for them.
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LPSHobby
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:18 am

if someone would like to start a Brannif or Pan Am again it would be possible? It would be necessary to buy the rights from somebody?
 
superjeff
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:37 am

The Pan Am name is owned by a railroad operator in Maine, so it would be necessary to buy it. Likewise, the Braniff name rights have been sold, but I am not sure who owns it. Anybody who wanted to restart Braniff (for the 4th time) would have to buy the name rights as well.

There have also been reincarnations of Northeast Airlines and periodically on this forum we see comments about a prospective new Northeast Airlines. Also, of course, Eastern Airlines is now operating again - the ownership bought the intellectual property from the estate of the old bankrupt entity.

There are other companies around the world that have taken old names - Air Panama is a regional airline in that company that flies under the name of the former flag carrier, for example.
 
bralo20
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:59 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
LX paid roughly $10 million to Swissair's bankruptcy liquidator for rights to the Swissair name, not because they planned to use it but because they didn't want anyone else to be able to use it.

Same happened in Belgium with the Sabena brand, a couple of years ago it was -finally- sold out of the bankruptcy to SN Airholding NV, the parent company of Brussels Airlines (SN) which is just like Swiss a successor.

However, this day 2 "original" (non-bankrupt) Sabena companies exists, Sabena Hotels NV stil ownes and operates the Memling Hotel in Kinshasha and then there's also Sabena Leasing NV which also remains active though not sure what they are (still) doing.

SN Airholding bought the brand to be sure that no other company will use the brand but it seems that quite recently a new "Sabena" company has been founded. Part of Sabena Technics (which was sold out of the bankruptcy to the French TAT group) was sold in 2014 and became Belgian again when Sabena Technics Brussels became Sabena Aerospace. Sabena Aerospace uses the Sabena typefont, the Sabena colors but left the S-tail in the history books, on their website they mention their history since 1923, the startdate of Sabena (which itself was the successor of SNETA, founded in 1919).

Eventually, when Lufthansa will excersize their option to buy the remaining 55% of SN Airholding NV it will become Lufthansa's brand and they can see fit to do (or don't do) what they want with it.

So who knows, maybe the Sabena brand will color the skies once again in the far future, though with Lufthansa I doubt this will happen since their are rumours that even the Brussels Airlines brand might disappear if they deem it fit to be replaced with Eurowings.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:45 pm

It is kind of like those "squatters" that buy a .com name and try to sell it for an outrageous sum. Most companies just change it slightly rather than pay for what basically amounts to extortion.

Braniff is an interesting case since it was the only US carrier that still carried the family name of its founders, Tom and Paul Braniff. I wonder if you could get permission from their surviving relatives. But after 3 incarnations, I think that subject is pretty well dead.
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:47 pm

There's a reason why you see retrojets above/beyond nostalgia. Trademarks have a 'use them or lose them' component to ownership. BNSF and CSX railroads have applied miniscule decals or predecessor roads logos on a couple of items of rolling stock. UP had painted locomotives in stylized versions of 'fallen flag' railroats that UP has eaten. And NS has painted 23 locomotives in exact replicas of their predecessor roads.

There was a big stink a couple decades ago when CSX and UP served papers on model manufacturers demanding royalties for use of logos, and paragraphs of legalese to be printed on each model.
 
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Putnik
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:49 pm

What happened to Swissair˙s SR code? I know Swiss started using SWR but they continued to use LX which came from Crossair.

Stil, SR is not listed in any directory as either available or used.
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N14AZ
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:03 pm

Lufthansa bought the name German Wings after the initial German Wings went bankrupt to use it later again.


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ckfred
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:24 pm

I'll throw out some names of airlines that merged into other carriers and haven't been used on retro jets or operating units in the past few years.

Air West
North Central
Southern
Texas International
New York Air

Frank Lorenzo could very well still own the intellectual property for TI and NYA


I know there was a reincarnation of Ozark, using the same logo, as well as the green and white colors. But, I seem to recall that Great Plains Airlines bought the Ozark operating certificate and got rid of the Ozark name and livery. That was nearly 15 years ago.

I can't think of the last time DL used the Western name or logo. Does DL still have rights to the name and branding?

The second Midway Airlines went bankrupt after 9/11 (having previously moved its base of operations from MDW to RDU). I suppose that name is available. WN, however, has such a stranglehold on MDW gate space that it would be impossible to start operations there.

The second National went bankrupt after 9/11. I assume that name is available.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:44 pm

Frontier not only uses the name but has appropriated the original "F" in its current logo from the carrier that was merged by Frank Lorenzo.
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XAM2175
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:41 pm

Quoting Putnik (Reply 13):
What happened to Swissair˙s SR code?

IATA retain "ownership" of their Airline Designator codes, so it can only be presumed that they have decided not to re-issue it.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:37 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 9):
The Pan Am name is owned by a railroad operator in Maine, so it would be necessary to buy it.

Maybe not.

From a trademark perspective: unless that railroad has sufficient ties to the airline/aviation industry which is in continual public commercial use; another entity wishing to use it on an airline could probably make a viable case that they should be able to do so.

It's not to say that they'll win, but it's been successfully done before.
United Van Lines vs United Airlines
Delta faucets vs Delta Air Lines

etc.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
spacecadet
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:48 am

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 12):
BNSF and CSX railroads have applied miniscule decals or predecessor roads logos on a couple of items of rolling stock.

BNSF has gone much further than that, including bringing back the "warbonnet" paint scheme with "Santa Fe" titles. They've also applied the green Burlington Northern livery to at least a few locomotives, complete with stylized "BN" logo. (Both of these liveries do have the "BNSF" titles elsewhere on the locomotive.) The railroads do the same retro livery thing on their locomotives as the airlines, for much the same reason. Everybody has to protect their trademarks. "Retro" or "Heritage" liveries and logos are a way to please fans, get some free publicity and protect trademarks.
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UA444
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:02 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 18):
aybe not.

From a trademark perspective: unless that railroad has sufficient ties to the airline/aviation industry which is in continual public commercial use; another entity wishing to use it on an airline could probably make a viable case that they should be able to do so.

It's not to say that they'll win, but it's been successfully done before.
United Van Lines vs United Airlines
Delta faucets vs Delta Air Lines

No airline can use the PA brand since it is owned by someone else. United Van lines and Delta faucet exist since they do not compete with and are not in the same industry as the airlines. Anybody wanting to use the PA brand would need to acquire the intellectual rights from the owner.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:54 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 20):
since they do not compete with and are not in the same industry as the airlines.

............you just said the same thing I did.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:06 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 20):
United Van lines and Delta faucet exist since they do not compete with and are not in the same industry as the airlines.

Although DL had to pay through the nose to get control of delta.com from Delta Faucet.
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747400sp
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:06 am

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 8):
Brannif or Pan Am

Don't you mean Pan Am or Brannif, the greater airline should always go first.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:15 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
Although DL had to pay through the nose to get control of delta.com from Delta Faucet.

      
My desktop's saved URL for them is still www.Delta-Air.com

Never bothered changing it, out of nostalgia.  





Quoting 747400sp (Reply 23):
Don't you mean Pan Am or Brannif,

....or better yet: "Braniff"

[Edited 2016-01-28 02:21:03]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
UA444
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:47 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 21):
............you just said the same thing I did.

No, because United Van Lines isn't using the same brand as UAL. Same with DL faucet. In this case, the Pan American World Airways brand is owned by a rail company, so an airline cannot be called PA without first acquiring the brand. A court is not going to, nor do they have the right, to side with some airline wanting to brand themselves as Pan Am when another party owns the PA brand and trademarks.
 
FlySSC
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:50 am

AIR FRANCE still owns the rights on the names & logos "UTA" and "AIR INTER"


 
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TheFlyingDisk
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:07 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
LX paid roughly $10 million to Swissair's bankruptcy liquidator for rights to the Swissair name, not because they planned to use it but because they didn't want anyone else to be able to use it.

Is there any legal ramification if LX were to be rebranded as Swissair?

Would be nice to see Swissair up & flying again.
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:27 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 19):
BNSF has gone much further than that, including bringing back the "warbonnet" paint scheme with "Santa Fe" titles. They've also applied the green Burlington Northern livery to at least a few locomotives, complete with stylized "BN" logo. (Both of these liveries do have the "BNSF" titles elsewhere on the locomotive.)

Those are examples of older locomotives that have been renumbered but not repainted into the 'new' orange. Nice that they keep them around, but it's not out of nostalgia, it's because those locomotives are going to be retired soon. The warbonnets that I've seen have faded to pink, I call them 'Easter Bonnets'.  
 
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Polot
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:38 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):
I can't think of the last time DL used the Western name or logo. Does DL still have rights to the name and branding?

No. A couple of years ago there was an attempt at a Western revival as a public charter (I think it was operated by Xtra Airways). It lasted about 2 weeks max.

Someone said here once that the only current old trademark that DL has is NWA.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:36 pm

I frequently get My Delta Air Lines employer confused with my Delta Dental Insurance by my dentist.
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luckyone
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:42 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):
Frank Lorenzo could very well still own the intellectual property for TI and NYA

I read somewhere on here, back during the merger mania of the late naughties, that CO was actually flying on the original TI operating certificate. Now, I could've completely misread that so somebody more knowledgeable please correct me if I'm mistaken. Were that to be the case, Lorenzo wouldn't own the rights to that.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):

Although DL had to pay through the nose to get control of delta.com from Delta Faucet.
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 24):

My desktop's saved URL for them is still www.Delta-Air.com

Beat me to it. I remember looking at their seat maps in the early days of the web, when they still had trijets.
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:02 am

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 27):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
LX paid roughly $10 million to Swissair's bankruptcy liquidator for rights to the Swissair name, not because they planned to use it but because they didn't want anyone else to be able to use it.

Is there any legal ramification if LX were to be rebranded as Swissair?

Would be nice to see Swissair up & flying again.

That would be a bad idea. Swissair was widely hated in the GVA market when they largely abandoned GVA in the mid-1990s when they moved almost all their GVA longhaul routes (except JFK) and many GVA European routes to ZRH.

And their bankruptcy and grounding when they stranded thousands of passengers all over the world for a few days after they ran out of cash to pay for fuel, is still a bad memory at least in Switzerland.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:00 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 25):
the Pan American World Airways brand is owned by a rail company, so an airline cannot be called PA without first acquiring the brand. A court is not going to, nor do they have the right, to side with some airline wanting to brand themselves as Pan Am when another party owns the PA brand and trademarks.

Almost none of what you said is accurate.

Current ownership is of little legal concern in a trademark dispute:
The primary components for continued protection of a trademarked brand are DISTINCTION of that mark + continual USE of that mark in public commerce.

If they haven't done that for a period of 6yrs+ (and thus earned an assumption of incontestability) within the specific industry/region in question, then *yes* a carrier *can* legally make a play for the use of that mark, and potentially win-- without paying the previous mark-holder a cent. Such a result is not guaranteed, but definitely plausible.

If you think that a business can just sit on a trademark without continually using it within an industry for which a challenger intends it, and that by doing so it somehow bars anyone else from potentially using it (without that aforementioned business' consent/profit), then you are mistaken.

That's a common assumption, but an incorrect one.

[Edited 2016-01-28 23:17:58]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
UA444
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:41 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 33):


It was entirely accurate.

I'm aware of trademark squatting and rights to a trademark being able to be used by another party after a certain period of time. But that's unless the original owner continuously renews the trademark. Toyota hasn't built a Supra in years, yet renews the trademark periodically.

The owners of the PA trademarks continue to use it. PA apparel is readily available, such as duffle bags, souvenirs and the like and is easy to find. The ABC show Pan Am licensed it's use when it was on the air. PA's brand hasn't gone away from public domain. No airline is going to be called Pan Am unless Boston Maine Railways says it is.

[Edited 2016-01-28 23:43:43]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:29 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 34):
It was entirely accurate.

Sorry, but it's not. At all.

This isn't guesswork... the scenario I'm telling you about actually happened already, with PanAm's mark. And it can (but likely won't) happen again.

You can see it for yourself right here in the U.S. Patent Office's official records:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:pxagq5.2.42
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:pxagq5.2.27

The company that held the trademark was challenged, and lost.
The new company held it to the 6th year, and then divested of it.
Now, that former company filed for and received registration of it again.

[Edited 2016-01-29 01:33:08]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
LPSHobby
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:39 pm

I still dream for a Brannif 4...
 
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Polot
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:52 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 33):
Current ownership is of little legal concern in a trademark dispute:
The primary components for continued protection of a trademarked brand are DISTINCTION of that mark + continual USE of that mark in public commerce.
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 33):
If you think that a business can just sit on a trademark without continually using it within an industry for which a challenger intends it, and that by doing so it somehow bars anyone else from potentially using it (without that aforementioned business' consent/profit), then you are mistaken.
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 35):

You realize the Pan Am name and logo is in current use by Pan Am Railways? It is not a company that bought the rights and are sitting on them. They are using them for their name and using the logo as their logo.
 
bjorn14
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:32 pm

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 36):

I read that the owners of the Braniff IP rights never want it used for an airline again.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:06 pm

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 36):
I still dream for a Brannif 4...

There is a Braniff 4--it goes by American... 
 
UA444
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:19 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 35):

Sorry, but it's not. At all.

This isn't guesswork... the scenario I'm telling you about actually happened already, with PanAm's mark. And it can (but likely won't) happen again.

You can see it for yourself right here in the U.S. Patent Office's official records:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:pxagq5.2.42
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:pxagq5.2.27

The company that held the trademark was challenged, and lost.
The new company held it to the 6th year, and then divested of it.
Now, that former company filed for and received registration of it again.

[Edited 2016-01-29 01:33:08]


It was entirely true and you are now trying to change the subject. Pan Am is owned by a rail company that uses the trademarks continuously and even brands it's rail service as. It is not coming back as an airline unless they deem it so.

Trademark squatting as zero relevance here since the trademarks are in use and a court can't make the company who is using them give them up to an airline wanting to use them.

Quoting polot (Reply 37):
You realize the Pan Am name and logo is in current use by Pan Am Railways? It is not a company that bought the rights and are sitting on them. They are using them for their name and using the logo as their logo.

  

[Edited 2016-01-29 08:21:15]
 
superjeff
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:47 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):
I can't think of the last time DL used the Western name or logo. Does DL still have rights to the name and branding?

The second Midway Airlines went bankrupt after 9/11 (having previously moved its base of operations from MDW to RDU). I suppose that name is available. WN, however, has such a stranglehold on MDW gate space that it would be impossible to start operations there.

The second National went bankrupt after 9/11. I assume that name is available.

There actually was a short-lived revival of the Western name a few years ago (lasted maybe a couple of months). They had the Western livery (the "Flying Winnebago") but it didn't last, so I assume Delta no longer has the name rights.

Don't know who has the name rights, if anybody, to Midway, but I do know there is a company called National Air Cargo that has a small passenger operation using the National Airlines name, and flying 757-200's.

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 36):
I still dream for a Brannif 4...

Agreed

as a former Braniff (1) employee, so do I  
Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 39):
There is a Braniff 4--it goes by American
 
LPSHobby
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 39):
There is a Braniff 4--it goes by American...


  I didn´t understand
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:58 pm

Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 42):

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 39):
There is a Braniff 4--it goes by American...


  I didn´t understand

American became everything that Braniff 1 aspired to. Braniff 2 was nothing like Braniff 1--it hubbed in Kansas City and Orlando, moved their headquarters to MCO, didn't keep 1's paint, but blew through money like 1 did.

American not only ran BN out of town, they did the same thing to DL. American is Dallas-Fort Worth, like BN was. They own Miami, are strong in NYC, like Braniff aspired to.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 13436
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:21 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 37):
You realize the Pan Am name and logo is in current use by Pan Am Railways?

You realize that rail and air are not analogous? ...thus the use requirement is open to challenge.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 40):
It was entirely true.

Your denial is ASTONISHING to me.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 40):
Trademark squatting as zero relevance here

Indeed, which is why at no point did that post mention squatting.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
UA444
Posts: 3002
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:06 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 44):

Indeed, which is why at no point did that post mention squatting.


You were the one who brought it up in the first place.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 44):
our denial is ASTONISHING to me

It's ASTONISHING how intentionally obtuse you're trying to be, when in fact there is nothing to argue.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 44):
ou realize that rail and air are not analogous? ...thus the use requirement is open to challenge

No. No they cannot. Just because a rail company owns (and actively uses) the PA trademarks does not give an airline authority to try and use it.

[Edited 2016-01-29 15:07:44]
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13436
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:51 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 45):
You were the one who brought it up in the first place.

Actually, I didn't. Here, let's try this one last time.

Reply#33. Third paragraph. First sentence.
...ya still with me here? I hope so.

Now, only seven little words. All in a row. You can do this, I have confidence:
"within the specific industry/region in question"

THAT'S where the use in commerce argument can come in.
This is nothing to do with squatting.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1779
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:02 pm

Guys, guys guys, guys....

I think this is what it boils down to:

UA444 thinks that because there is a railroad that is currently using the Pan Am branding and trademarks, that use would prevent an airline from starting up and using the same trademarks.

LAX772LR disagrees, and says that an airline is fair game to use the trademark because airlines are different from railroads.

Now, actually, because both railroads and airlines fall under the greater category of mass public transport, legitimate arguments could be made against an airline, owned by a separate company, using the same Pan Am marks as the current railroad. It would probably depend largely on if the airline and the railroad would be operating in the same region, and if any sort of marketing confusion among the public would take place.

My 2cents.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
User avatar
antoniemey
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: What Happens To Airline Names

Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:18 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 47):
Now, actually, because both railroads and airlines fall under the greater category of mass public transport, legitimate arguments could be made against an airline, owned by a separate company, using the same Pan Am marks as the current railroad. It would probably depend largely on if the airline and the railroad would be operating in the same region, and if any sort of marketing confusion among the public would take place.

Accurate. Of course, given that law and court rulings in the US tend to go more in favor of current holder than some places in the world, even where there isn't overlap, it's likely that any company in the US would be barred from using those marks without licensing or buying them from the railroad company. But I doubt any US startup not affiliated with said railroad would try to use the Pan Am marks at this point.

But I'm not a legal expert, so that's all just my opinion.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.

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