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theSFOspotter
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How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:36 am

The route has been flown for many years and has been on the 744 for awhile now. What's the year round LF? Is this route used for over flow for DFW and the LA/San Diego area which could offer cheap connections on AA. This route is flown year around so it could be doing well possibly?
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avi8
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:46 am

Given it was flown with a 747 before US joined one world I assume it was doing fine and now that it is a one world to one world hub route I assume it's doing even better.
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hz747300
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:51 am

I don't know how to read the DOT stats, but for 2014, it seems that 203,206 people flew the route from PHX-LHR on BA. However, that does not make total sense given the number of available seats. For comparison, it appears that the number was 175,475 in 2013. Anyways, it does not address fares of course. That said, my assumption from the numbers is that the planes are full, but PHX is a low fare town. So probably just right for now.

I do wonder what will happen with the 744s are phased out. Double daily, 789? Daily, 77W?
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:00 am

It honesty must do well or it would be downsized and/or have stopped by now.

Is this the only flight to Europe from PHX? I think it is, little competition i bet it does really well
 
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treebeard787
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:05 am

Well, seeing as BA have served PHX continuously since the mid 90s, using the 744 most of that time, I'd say it probably does pretty well for them, and now they have the added benefit of PHX being an AA hub.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
Is this the only flight to Europe from PHX? I think it is, little competition i bet it does really well

It is the only one at the moment, yes. LH flew to PHX from I believe 2003 to 2005. LTU also had brief service from DUS in the 90s.

[Edited 2016-01-25 21:08:47]
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jetwet1
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:07 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 2):
That said, my assumption from the numbers is that the planes are full, but PHX is a low fare town.

And did you bother to check the fares ?

You will find much like the other low fare desert airport (LAS) the fares are actually the same or more than LAX, the PHX-LHR route does fine, though isolated, there is enough of a business community to justify the 744, throw in the leisure market and the flight is a money maker.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:33 am

I've taken that flight a few times over the years (J & Y), and I have to say I have never seen it with a low passenger load.

Even when I wasn't flying the BA flight I would hang out for a bit in N4 concourse if I was flying late. I can say that the gate area was always quite full.

Wasn't there talk of AA taking over the route?
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VS4ever
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:42 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 2):
I don't know how to read the DOT stats, but for 2014, it seems that 203,206 people flew the route from PHX-LHR on BA. However, that does not make total sense given the number of available seats. For comparison, it appears that the number was 175,475 in 2013. Anyways, it does not address fares of course. That said, my assumption from the numbers is that the planes are full, but PHX is a low fare town. So probably just right for now.

We actually have 2 data points available (and remember this info below is only as good as the data provided by the sources, i have, I make no representation of their actual accuracy, apart from what i see in front of me!)

BTS carries Seats and Pax stats. (only has up to Jul 15 available)
PHX themselves carry Pax Stats

I don't call them Load Factors as many calculate that metric differently, i tend to call it capacity factor.
BTS (ave seats over all flights 335-336 and that's pretty constant)

Jan-Jul 14 - 116,880 (141,134 seats for a 83% capacity factor total)
Jan-Dec 14 - 204,374 (242,816 seats for a 84% total)
Jan-Jul 15 - 122,660 (140,927 seats for a 87% total)

PHX reports:
Jan-Jul 14 - 121,073
Jan-Dec 14 - 211,047
Jan-Jul 15 - 125,459
Jan-Nov 15 - 199,855 (last data available).. assuming Dec is flat to 2014, there's about another 17K to come, so the number should be in the 217-218K range, which is about a 3% uplift on the year.

Sources:
BTS T-100
PHX Website reports: Example for Nov 15, Pg 10.
http://skyharbor.com/docs/default-so..._airportstats_2015_11.pdf?sfvrsn=2

This gives 0 indication of split between up front and back of the house, but running at mid 80's most of the year, plus a couple of 90's thrown in for good measure confirms there are a decent amount of butts on seats, but not knowing the revenue, no other conclusions can be drawn, except that it's still running with a 744 level aircraft. Going to tentatively suggest it isn't going anywhere, any time soon!

One last piece of info, from the BTS numbers show a clear difference between inbound and outbound numbers. with inbound being around 6% higher overall than outbound (Jan-July comparisons)

Hope this helps.
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mpdpilot
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:45 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 2):
I do wonder what will happen with the 744s are phased out. Double daily, 789? Daily, 77W?

PHX will likely stay a 744 for awhile as the runway mixed with the summer heat make long flights with Max Payload more difficult. This is important on this flight as the flight typically operates with a cargo hold full of produce.

I did the math a while back and PHX's longest runway could use another 2000' to make these flights easier earlier in the evening allowing for more flight connections in LHR. Without that extension though, I doubt this flight changes much.
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RobertPhoenix
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:57 am

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 8):
PHX's longest runway could use another 2000' to make these flights easier earlier in the evening allowing for more flight connections in LHR.

I will have to lobby to make sure the runway is not extended !! My love of the BA flight from PHX to LHR is based on the fact that it leaves sufficiently late in the evening. If they make it any earlier I will have to resort to flying to LAX and getting a later flight.

Why do I like it so late ? Because I can get a full days work done before I fly. I can get a good nights sleep, because it is flying when I normally sleep. Sure I lose a days work by arriving so late but instead of being jet lagged at the other end I am ready to go on the third day. Since I am on a different timescale anyhow I don't mind arriving at my final destination somewhat after midnight.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:05 am

Must be doing well. BA has been flying this route since 1996, first with DC-10 from LGW, then 744 with continuing service to SAN, then 772, and finally 744.

Past transcontinental service was LTU to DUS from 1996-98, and LH flew from FRA with A343 from 2001-2003.

At least from my point of view, BA means a lot to us in the Southwest: LAS/PHX/SAN. For PHX/SAN it's the only nonstop to Europe, and for LAS it's the only airline providing daily connections to tons of cities around the world. I'll just say it, I love BA!

I figured PHX would get some new int'l service by now. How about LH Jump or some 787 service?
 
ericm2031
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:20 am

I'd assume this does well feeding off the west coast pmUS markets that don't have LAX or DFW flights. It allows afternoon departures from a lot of of these cities, while still keeping just 2 stops to get to most places in Europe. Without it, these cities would be restricted to early morning departures, or backtracking back to LAX, and potentially adding a 3rd layover.
 
hz747300
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:21 am

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 5):
And did you bother to check the fares ?

I checked a random pairing on a summer holiday (during July) and found a coach fare on Expedia for ~US$1500 r/t. However, I do not have time to check all possible date combinations. Though, I seemingly have time to post here. Either way, I thought there was a DOT file which contained average fares, but not where I was looking.

Quoting VS4ever (Reply 7):
We actually have 2 data points available (and remember this info below is only as good as the data provided by the sources, i have, I make no representation of their actual accuracy, apart from what i see in front of me!)

Great, thanks it does help my curiosity and the original poster's too, I assume. Based on that, I would call it successful.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 8):
I did the math a while back and PHX's longest runway could use another 2000' to make these flights easier earlier in the evening allowing for more flight connections in LHR.

Yikes, well, they could extend into the Salt River on the newer shortest runway which would present problems on arrivals from the East, but could allow for long takeoff rolls to the West. Actually, arrivals could work, just land further down, ie, where the current threshold is now.

Given that the above is likely to never happen, does that mean that EK service is out of the question? I mean in June, July, and August, it can still be 100F at midnight. Or maybe they can treat PHX like they are Panama, announce it, but never actually fly it.
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Andy33
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:27 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 2):
I do wonder what will happen with the 744s are phased out. Double daily, 789? Daily, 77W?

PHX remains scheduled for 744s past the end of this summer timetable. BA are removing 4 x 744 from their fleet between March and late summer, and new arrivals are 789s and A388s, and they obviously don't intend to use either type to PHX this year.
After that the 744 fleet remains static at 36 right through 2017, and starts reducing again in 2018 as A350-1000s start arriving. These have been specifically described by BA as 744 replacements. There are 18 A350-1000 on order (plus options) and there will be 18 unrefurbished 744s left in the fleet when they start arriving.
The other 18 744s, which are going through cabin refitting right now, are the super-high-J fleet and PHX isn't currently intended to be served by them. These should remain in BA's fleet until the 787-10s on order begin to arrive, unless of course there is a serious economic downturn.

So I'd expect to see 744s at PHX until somewhere between 2018 and 2020, and highly likely A350-1000s, or redeployed 77Ws, after that.
 
LGAviation
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:34 am

Does anyone know who actually flies on that flight? Is it mostly Britons and other Europeans coming to the Southwest or is it Arizonians going abroad?
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mpdpilot
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:53 am

Quoting RobertPhoenix (Reply 9):
I will have to lobby to make sure the runway is not extended !! My love of the BA flight from PHX to LHR is based on the fact that it leaves sufficiently late in the evening. If they make it any earlier I will have to resort to flying to LAX and getting a later flight.

Why do I like it so late ? Because I can get a full days work done before I fly. I can get a good nights sleep, because it is flying when I normally sleep. Sure I lose a days work by arriving so late but instead of being jet lagged at the other end I am ready to go on the third day. Since I am on a different timescale anyhow I don't mind arriving at my final destination somewhat after midnight.

I can respect that, I would guess though with it now being an AA hub that it would likely mean the addition of a second daily flight and not just a change of times. I could see an additional flight on the 787 earlier in the day for connections. As it is right now the flight misses a number of flights to India connecting in LHR.

Though with the recent move to T3, BA doesn't seem to be connecting a lot of traffic off the flight. This I would guess is the best way to analyze the health of the route, if they are flying mostly O&D passengers and getting mid-80% LF then I would guess they are doing just fine.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 12):
Given that the above is likely to never happen, does that mean that EK service is out of the question? I mean in June, July, and August, it can still be 100F at midnight. Or maybe they can treat PHX like they are Panama, announce it, but never actually fly it.

I would guess not. Though I wouldn't count the extension out with the realigning of the roads there is some room on the east end of 8/26. And the thought of EK service would likely move any extension a lot quicker.

Quoting andy33 (Reply 13):
So I'd expect to see 744s at PHX until somewhere between 2018 and 2020, and highly likely A350-1000s, or redeployed 77Ws, after that.

I would guess the A350 would be what takes over though I don't know the performance numbers for that aircraft yet  . If BA were to order the 777X-9 I would imagine the performance would be better.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
Andy33
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:07 am

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 15):
If BA were to order the 777X-9 I would imagine the performance would be better.

Maybe so, but since A350-1000s are what they've ordered to replace this group of 744s, and BA know very well indeed what the performance requirements are to serve PHX having operated there for so many years, it is reasonable to assume that the A350 will be adequate.
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FlyingHollander
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:28 am

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 10):
Quoting LGAviation (Reply 14):

The few times I have flown the route it was mostly Europeans. Mostly British, Scandinavians, Germans and Dutch.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
vv701
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:22 pm

BA load factors and average passengers per flight for all US destinations in the period March to September 2014 were reported here on a-net. I cannot find the thread but I recorded the data.

Of the 19 US destinations PHX was ranked seventh for load factor at 88.1 per cent. It was ranked third (after LAX and LAS) with 296 passengers per flight. Here it is worth noting that currently BA usually flies a 'Mid J' 744 configured for 337 passengers (F14 / J52 / W36 / Y235) to PHX.

As jetwet1 has pointed out in Reply 5, comparing actual available fares to PHX with those for LAX (that is just a little further from LHR - 185 miles great circle) usually shows the PHX fares to be slightly higher.
 
cjpmaestro
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:04 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 17):
Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 10):
Quoting LGAviation (Reply 14):

The few times I have flown the route it was mostly Europeans. Mostly British, Scandinavians, Germans and Dutch.

Agree, though a healthy amount of Americans. I was one of them going on vacation last summer. Booked PHX-BCN last and BA showed up on the AA website for $150 more and I wanted to take the 744, so booked the higher fare. I travel to India a couple times a year and there is a PHX-LHR-HYD flight that works perfectly, but going with one of the ME3 is typically cheaper.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):

BA load factors and average passengers per flight for all US destinations in the period March to September 2014 were reported here on a-net. I cannot find the thread but I recorded the data.

Of the 19 US destinations PHX was ranked seventh for load factor at 88.1 per cent. It was ranked third (after LAX and LAS) with 296 passengers per flight. Here it is worth noting that currently BA usually flies a 'Mid J' 744 configured for 337 passengers (F14 / J52 / W36 / Y235) to PHX.

As jetwet1 has pointed out in Reply 5, comparing actual available fares to PHX with those for LAX (that is just a little further from LHR - 185 miles great circle) usually shows the PHX fares to be slightly higher.

I think it's been said that this route did just fine prior to OW/AA and now they have the benefit of the alliance. Anyone who things these fares are cheaper needs to look and compare. They aren't.
 
910A
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:25 pm

The British Airways flight has faced an uphill climb to remain viable during tough economic times.

But more important to the viability of that daily flight may be the technology-related commercial freight nestled in the belly of the British Airways 747.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/p...ch-cargo-keeps-phoenix-london.html
 
airzona11
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:41 pm

Have done Spring Summer Fall on this flight and have coworkers that do so often as well, always seems to be basically full. Getting a day of purchase / upgrade to Club World / WT+ is rarely possible. It is always cheaper to connect via LAX onto the AA 77W flight (sometimes even the A380), but BA 747 + nonstop makes it a no brainer.

The business between the cities is also cargo related, in the valley there is Honeywell, Intel , ON, among many other tech related component manufacturing. Many of these are time sensitive/ Just In Time cargo shipments.
 
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vhtje
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:54 pm

Anecdotally - if ever I am looking to book an award flight to/from California, seats to/from PHX are usually easier to snare than seats to/from LAX or SFO.

In fact my next award flight in July to LHR was originally booked from PHX, which would have meant taking an AA flight from SFO to PHX. About a month after making the booking, a seat on a direct SFO to LHR flight came up, so I moved the booking.

It is not the first time this has happened for me. In fact, when one phones the BAEC, and requests SFO on a specific date, it almost invariably will not have availability, so the helpful agent will search nearby cities for seat - SEA and YVR are usually searched as well as LAS and PHX.
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robso2
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:48 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):
BA load factors and average passengers per flight for all US destinations in the period March to September 2014 were reported here on a-net. I cannot find the thread but I recorded the data.

I must say VV701, we can always rely on you to not only provide valuable data/information but insightful analysis

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):
Of the 19 US destinations PHX was ranked seventh for load factor at 88.1 per cent. It was ranked third (after LAX and LAS) with 296 passengers per flight. Here it is worth noting that currently BA usually flies a 'Mid J' 744 configured for 337 passengers (F14 / J52 / W36 / Y235) to PHX.

Can you share this US destination ranking?
733/4/5/6/7/8/9, 319/20/21, 752, 744, 772/W, 332/3, 343/6, E70/90, AT43, AR85/1, D38, D10, M82
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:55 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 14):
Does anyone know who actually flies on that flight? Is it mostly Britons and other Europeans coming to the Southwest or is it Arizonians going abroad?

I've flown the route about 9 times, and I can say without a doubt that Arizona does not generate enough O&D traffic to support that route and frequency. While I couldn't tell everyone's nationality, I can say that majority were not Americans.
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Ytraveller
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:07 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 24):
I've flown the route about 9 times, and I can say without a doubt that Arizona does not generate enough O&D traffic to support that route and frequency. While I couldn't tell everyone's nationality, I can say that majority were not Americans.

I doubt the majority is O&D traffic, there must be a healthy amount of connecting traffic. I'd venture a guess that a decent number are headed to India, what with 4 South Indian restaurants in the Phoenix area.
 
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chepos
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:12 pm

I myself have used to fly to get to DEL, while we had a long layover in LHR you can not beat the convenience.
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tzadik
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:39 pm

My understanding is this route is highly profitable on the cargo side being PHX's only direct link to Europe.
 
hz747300
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:18 am

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 25):
I doubt the majority is O&D traffic, there must be a healthy amount of connecting traffic. I'd venture a guess that a decent number are headed to India, what with 4 South Indian restaurants in the Phoenix area.

The state also has a lot of Indians too, mainly Apache and Navajo.

Four South Indian restaurants does not seem to indicate a 'large Indian community'. I suspect that the large community is likely affiliated with the high-tech industry and the university.

If it is Euros, then likely people that did the tour from LAS to the Grand Canyon, then departing via PHX. Or some people on business trips. There is not many people who hail from the continent directly and now live in Arizona, so it likely is not related traditional connections like one finds in Boston, Chicago, New York, etc...

And there are a few Arizonans who can afford an European holiday, but not many. Salaries are woefully low in PHX.
Keep on truckin'...
 
workhorse
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:21 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 13):
The other 18 744s, which are going through cabin refitting right now, are the super-high-J fleet and PHX isn't currently intended to be served by them.

Aren't they refitted with a lower-J cabin?

My understanding was that the business-heavy 744s (the ones with Premium Economy over the wing, between Business and Economy) are refurbished with the less business-heavy configuration where Premium Economy is in between two Business cabins. Isn't that right?

[Edited 2016-01-26 21:23:25]
 
alasizon
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:35 am

The BA flight is usually about 200 locals and another 100 or so outbound connections. Today in PHX was a reduced PM schedule for AA and there were only 217 pax on the inbound and scheduled 218 on outbound.

The average numbers are anecdotal of course but in my observation that is pretty much what it is.
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jetwet1
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:54 am

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 10):
and for LAS it's the only airline providing daily connections to tons of cities around the world. I'll just say it, I love BA!

Not really, there are plenty of airlines flying around the world from LAS now days.

Quoting 910A (Reply 20):
But more important to the viability of that daily flight may be the technology-related commercial freight nestled in the belly of the British Airways 747.

The flight is viable without the cargo, that however is a rather large added bonus, Intel mostly from what I have heard.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:13 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 28):
Four South Indian restaurants does not seem to indicate a 'large Indian community'. I suspect that the large community is likely affiliated with the high-tech industry and the university.

You will find North Indian restaurants everywhere, but South Indian ones are less prevalent. For example here in LAS we have zero. But in LAX/SFO/DFW/etc you have several. Anyways I know it's trivial but just something interesting I noticed, I wasn't expecting so many in PHX .

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 31):
Not really, there are plenty of airlines flying around the world from LAS now days.

I know, but if I want to travel to Africa, Middle East, India etc it's hard to do that with VS/DE/WK/KE/etc, who all tend to be seasonal or less than daily. Anyways I am biased toward BA, started with that first flight, LAS-LHR in July 2010 back when the 777 was operating...
 
Andy33
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RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:43 am

Quoting workhorse (Reply 29):
Aren't they refitted with a lower-J cabin?

My understanding was that the business-heavy 744s (the ones with Premium Economy over the wing, between Business and Economy) are refurbished with the less business-heavy configuration where Premium Economy is in between two Business cabins. Isn't that right?

In terms of what configuration the aircraft had this time last year, it is more complicated than that.

There were planes with mid-J configuration (14F 52J 36W 235Y) where the PE cabin is between F and lower-deck J, and planes with hi-J configuration (14F 70J 30W 185Y) where the PE cabin is between lower-deck J and Y. There was also a hi-J version with just 177Y seats, but none of these are left now.

BA decided to create a new 18-strong refurbished subfleet called super-hi-J with 14F 82J 30W 145Y, and PE is between lower-deck J and Y on these. These are the planes that are expected to last the longest and frames were drawn from both existing mid-J and hi-J subfleets. The conversion is ongoing and involves new sidepanels, new IFE, seats re-upholstered on existing frames, new carpets and modified lighting. When it is complete at the end of July there will be no hi-J planes left in the fleet.

The remaining 22 planes were either left as they were if they were already mid-J or converted to mid-J if they had been hi-J. There was no refurbishment, just a rearrangement of cabins using equipment recovered from withdrawn aircraft. This part of the project was completed last year. Four of these planes will go this year, and withdrawal of the remainder will start in 2018 as A350-1000s begin to arrive.

The final complication is that this time last year there were 4 mid-J planes which hadn't received the current First cabin and still had an earlier version, but were otherwise identical to standard mid-J.
These were concentrated onto 4 routes, one of which was PHX, and the F cabin was sold as J if J looked like being full, and otherwise left empty. Three of these Old First planes were withdrawn during 2015, and the PHX route returned to normal Mid-J aircraft with the current First cabin sold as First. PHX is expected to remain with mid-J aircraft for as long as it has 744s, except for last minute substitutions for mechanical reasons.
 
workhorse
Posts: 797
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:00 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 33):

The final complication is that this time last year there were 4 mid-J planes which hadn't received the current First cabin and still had an earlier version, but were otherwise identical to standard mid-J.
These were concentrated onto 4 routes, one of which was PHX, and the F cabin was sold as J if J looked like being full, and otherwise left empty.

Yes, that's exactly what I have flown last year! A Premium Eco cabin "sandwiched" in between two J cabins and now I realize that the forward one was in fact old-style F sold as Business.

Thank you very much, this was very clear.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3221
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:10 am

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 32):
You will find North Indian restaurants everywhere, but South Indian ones are less prevalent. For example here in LAS we have zero.

Isn't Mint Southern ??? (sorry to draw the thread away, but LAS finally has some decent Indian restaurants)

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 32):

I know, but if I want to travel to Africa, Middle East, India etc it's hard to do that with VS/DE/WK/KE/etc

In this case, yes I agree, though VS can be useful at times.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4753
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:19 am

This flight must do well, they have no competition for one-stop to many places

Look at Mountain West airports SLC and DEN much more service to Europe. BA is probably killing it on this route, and now AA partner for connections it must be good times on the route.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:13 am

Quoting robso2 (Reply 23):
Can you share this US destination ranking?

Here we go.

Data for March to September 2014 for BA's average load factor and average passengers per flight with ranking on flights to each of the 19 US cities served as earlier reported on a-net:

SFO: 92.5 per cent (rank 1); average 296 passengers (rank 3=)

LAS: 91.3 per cent (2); average 308 passengers (2)

LAX: 90.8 per cent (3); average 401 passengers (1)

DEN: 89.4 per cent (4); average 237 passengers (10=)

SAN: 89.3 per cent (5); average 243 passengers (8)

DFW: 88.4 per cent (6); average 282 passengers (5)

PHX: 88.1 per cent (7); average 296 passengers (3=)

MIA: 87.0 per cent (8); average 274 passengers (6)

BWI: 86.2 per cent (9); average 237 passengers (10=)

SEA: 85.9 per cent (10); average 236 passengers (12)

ATL: 85.6 per cent (11); average 202 passengers (15=)

ORD: 85.4 per cent (12); average 254 passengers (7)

BOS: 83.5 per cent (13); average 240 passengers (9)

JFK: 82.9 per cent (14); average 232 passengers (13)

IAD: 82.7 per cent (15); average 220 passengers (14)

EWR: 82.4 per cent (16); average 181 passengers (17)

AUS: 81.9 per cent (17); average 175 passengers (18)

PHL: 80.8 per cent (18); average 172 passengers (19)

IAH: 75.1 per cent (19); average 202 passengers (15=)
 
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Ytraveller
Posts: 1287
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:47 pm

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:19 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 35):
Isn't Mint Southern ??? (sorry to draw the thread away, but LAS finally has some decent Indian restaurants)

Sorry to divert the thread as well, but no. Most restaurants here serve mainly North Indian dishes (naan, curry) with a couple South Indian ones on the side (dosa, idli). We don't have any full South Indian restaurants, like Saravana Bhavan in SFO/NYC.

I don't care much though, as you said a lot of restaurants have been popping up lately and some of them are quite good!
 
jimbo737
Posts: 524
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:55 pm

With WS entering the TATL market with their 767's, the price for one stop PHX-London, as well as numerous other US to London markets, starting May 2016 has dramatically declined.

Round trips are easily found for under $1,050 with a 2-3 hour connections in Canada, with their cheap 70 cent Cdn dollar, which only adds about 500 miles to a 10,500 mile round trip.

British Arways want $1,738 for their non stop on the same dates, i.e. mid May and beyond.

I think they'll be a lot of price sensitive travelers choosing to pocket the $700 savings this summer when flying to/from PHX-London. The $700 savings is $1000 Cdn and, if desired, that would pay for a lovely, cool, compared to the oven in PHX, 2-3 day stop over holiday in Toronto, Calgary/Banff or Vancouver!

I suspect BA will lose 20 passengers a day to WS this summer unless they cut fares. If they cut fares, they better have the cost structure to allow them to stay profitable with the lower fares though!

WS has been consistently and highly profitable in their 20 year history. I think they lost money in one year, the year they wrote down all their old 737-200's, so you know they are not pricing their product to lose money.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:14 pm

Quoting jimbo737 (Reply 39):

That would quite certainly affect passengers whose final destination is London.
People who want to go further afield by air won't find WestJet a serious alternative to BA. They don't seem to have any agreements in place for through ticketing or through baggage checking across London to other destinations, and they use LGW where the largest airline is EasyJet (no interline agreements at all), followed by BA, Norwegian, VS, EI, MT, BY, ZB, VY none of which have any incentive to be helpful as they either compete with WS or don't go to places they would want to connect.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2417
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:26 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 40):

That would quite certainly affect passengers whose final destination is London.

Agreed, but since the flight is at T3 in LHR, does that mean that their connections numbers are pretty low already on the London side?

It seems almost any one hop on someone else is cheaper than non-stop, even just via other hubs in the US.

Just did an Expedia search on 4-Jun to 11-Jun, r/t, coach:

Cheapest:
UA and IE 2 stops, IAD & DUB, US$1513
AS and Icelandic 2 stops, SEA & KEF, US$1687

then

BA nonstop, US$2154

Those prices are an outrage. In my first job out of Arizona State in Phoenix, that would be approaching 10% of my annual salary! Most of the other prices listed are around US$100-150 of that BA price.
Keep on truckin'...
 
Andy33
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:03 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 41):
Agreed, but since the flight is at T3 in LHR, does that mean that their connections numbers are pretty low already on the London side?

Yes, BA to BA/IB connections will be lower than on other routes, you're right. However BA does have a whole bunch of European destinations (15 or so cities) plus some non-North American long hauls served out of T3, and in addition it is the terminal used by the rest of OneWorld (well, except QR and MH who haven't got round to moving yet)
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:19 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 41):

Quoting andy33 (Reply 40):

That would quite certainly affect passengers whose final destination is London.

Agreed, but since the flight is at T3 in LHR, does that mean that their connections numbers are pretty low already on the London side?

It seems almost any one hop on someone else is cheaper than non-stop, even just via other hubs in the US.

Just did an Expedia search on 4-Jun to 11-Jun, r/t, coach:

Cheapest:
UA and IE 2 stops, IAD & DUB, US$1513
AS and Icelandic 2 stops, SEA & KEF, US$1687

then

BA nonstop, US$2154

Those prices are an outrage. In my first job out of Arizona State in Phoenix, that would be approaching 10% of my annual salary! Most of the other prices listed are around US$100-150 of that BA price.

Why is that an outrage? BA is non-stop so why shoul they charge the lowest fare to compete with 1 or even 2 stops? You expect to pay a premium for a direct service - especially when it's the only one to London. BA are excellent at yield management and know their markets well. If they were not filling seats at this price then they would lower prices or withdraw.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:32 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 43):
If they were not filling seats at this price then they would lower prices or withdraw.

As has already been stated there is plenty of evidence that they are filling the seats better than to most US destinations including JFK and at seat prices above those achieved on the LHR-LAX slightly longer route. What is more some of this evidence dates back to before PHX became a oneworld hub. That cannot have done either load factors or yield any harm at all.
 
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GCT64
Posts: 1839
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

RE: How Is BA Doing On LHR-PHX?

Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:44 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 43):
You expect to pay a premium for a direct service - especially when it's the only one to London. BA are excellent at yield management and know their markets well.

  

It is certainly very true that "BA expect you to pay a premium for non-stop service ..." they don't see themselves as competing with 2-stop or even 1-stop alternatives.

I'm well aware of that being based close to LHR. Often my prices LHR-XXX are more expensive than my Scottish based colleagues flights EDI-LHR-XXX (even when we are on exactly the same flights from/to LHR, effectively they are being charged a negative price for the EDI leg (or is it a discount for being Scottish?   )).
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX

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