AS To Do ANC-GEG N/s

ridgid727 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:12 am

Alaska is starting n/s ANC-GEG service. Its weekly.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska...fly-nonstop-between-000000963.html

mtnwest1979 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:21 am

What an odd-ball route. I do not believe that the Spokane market area has enough draw even for a weekly nonstop flight.
But, I suppose that this is a good way to actually try it out.
Good luck to them with this experiment.

hiflyeras · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:22 am

Only on Saturdays? Flights must be already filling up to ANC out of SEA this summer on Saturdays.

MAH4546 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:28 am

It is seasonal using a plane, based on the schedule, that would otherwise overnight between turns. Cheap fuel means these flights make sense.

BoeingGuy · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:28 am

Interesting add. Maybe AS will add a few more non-stops from GEG. I could see a weekly GEG-HNL flight working too.

AS has done YVR-ANC and SFO-ANC and dropped them. I wonder if those will come back seasonally.

32andBelow · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:30 am

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 2):
Only on Saturdays? Flights must be already filling up to ANC out of SEA this summer on Saturdays.

Doubt it. AS would just add a 3rd PDX-ANC

ua900 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:32 am

Holy moly. Great news for GEG.

HPRamper · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:47 am

This is very interesting. I can see this working as a funnel for a lot of QX markets currently connected to GEG. It's not just all about the Spokane metro. It has to be attractive for many to connect via GEG versus SEA.

RWA380 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:59 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):
This is very interesting. I can see this working as a funnel for a lot of QX markets currently connected to GEG. It's not just all about the Spokane metro. It has to be attractive for many to connect via GEG versus SEA.

Other than ANC just being added, AS only flies to BOI, PDX or SEA from GEG, so if timed well BOI would be the only real connecting market I could see, unless AAG decides to add MT destinations to GEG again.

dc10lover · Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:00 am

First time ever on this route? Surprised AS doesn't fly GEG - YVR non - stop.

RWA380 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:02 am

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 9):
First time ever on this route? Surprised AS doesn't fly GEG - YVR non - stop.

IIRC, the last carrier there was the original Frontier FL.

ridgid727 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:05 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 10):

IIRC, the last carrier there was the original Frontier FL.

Think you are right. Not sure if Cascade ever did that, I know they did Spokane - Calgary.

PlanesNTrains · Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:32 am

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 2):

Only on Saturdays? Flights must be already filling up to ANC out of SEA this summer on Saturdays.

Definitely a route I would not have expected. How are loads on SEA-GEG in the summer? I could see doing SEA-GEG-ANC-GEG-SEA as a non-rev option.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 10):
IIRC, the last carrier there was the original Frontier FL.

I think that's right. I always thought a GEG-hubbed commuter/regional would have been great to fill the gap left by QX, but then 9/11 and the TSA stuff sort of eliminated that idea. I was thinking Montana/Wyoming/Idaho-GEG-YVR/BLI/PAE/SEA/ PDX/EUG. I know, fanciful.

-Dave

Prost · Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:09 am

Gutsy move, albeit one day a week only. However, just by having the route in high tourist season, I think AS is going to stimulate demand. Another well played move from a respected competitor.

RWA380 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:01 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 12):
I think that's right. I always thought a GEG-hubbed commuter/regional would have been great to fill the gap left by QX, but then 9/11 and the TSA stuff sort of eliminated that idea. I was thinking Montana/Wyoming/Idaho-GEG-YVR/BLI/PAE/SEA/ PDX/EUG. I know, fanciful.

If there were the traffic from the Lilac City to all of those places I'd expect QX or GQ to be operating it by now with fuel so low.

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 11):
Think you are right. Not sure if Cascade ever did that, I know they did Spokane - Calgary.

That was an old WA route, things sure have changed here in the Northwest over the years.

MSPNWA · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:08 am

Hard to believe this will work out. Just let the airplane sit. I'd love to know the PDEW of this city-pair.

hiflyeras · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:09 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 12):
I could see doing SEA-GEG-ANC-GEG-SEA as a non-rev option.

That seems to be the only possible routing considering that mainline AS aircraft only fly SEA-GEG.

BoeingGuy · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:20 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):
Other than ANC just being added, AS only flies to BOI, PDX or SEA from GEG, so if timed well BOI would be the only real connecting market I could see, unless AAG decides to add MT destinations to GEG again.

AS has been on and off with LAX-GEG over the years, and briefly did SJC-GEG with a Q400 a few years ago. So yes, it will be interesting to see if they plan to expand at GEG.

Waiting to see if they try GEG-HNL.

lhpdx · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:59 am

What a strange add, and only a single weekly seasonal flight..I wonder what else is in store for GEG?

Viscount724 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:03 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 10):
Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 9):
First time ever on this route? Surprised AS doesn't fly GEG - YVR non - stop.

IIRC, the last carrier there was the original Frontier FL.

Very little O&D demand GEG-YVR. NW also operated YVR-GEG fairly briefly, continued to MSP. Both the original Frontier and NW stopped in GEG only because they had to, as the Canada-U.S. bilateral then didn't permit nonstop YVR-DEN or YVR-MSP. There was a more flexible regime fo smaller cities like GEG so they could obtain rights YVR-GEG and then continue beyond anywhere. Once the transborder bilateral was liberalized, the GEG stop was quickly dropped.

mtnwest1979 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:04 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 10):
IIRC, the last carrier there was the original Frontier FL.

Well actually CO was after acquiring the PE group of carriers.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
I'd expect QX or GQ to be operating it by now with fuel so low.

Since GQ quit flying in '09, kind of hard for them to be operating them....

SANFan · Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:33 am

Interesting add for sure. Both the city-pair and the once-a-week frequency are surprising.

I wonder if there could be some travel club or similar that might be packaging Alaska travel (during the summer) from Eastern Washington/Northern Idaho? (Almost a charter-type op?)

I also find it intriguing that for 2 days in a row now, at 4pm, AAG has announced a single new route. (Yesterday, a summer-only PDX-ATL restart was announced.) This is not the usual way AS does new route announcements... Whether there's any significance to this, or if we will see another announcement tomorrow afternoon, I'm anxiously awaiting...

(Also, both yesterday's and today's announcements are for summer seasonal service, and neither is using real a/c time -- both are making use of a/c that would be normally overnighting.)

What's next???

bb

PDXFlyBoy · Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:47 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
I also find it intriguing that for 2 days in a row now, at 4pm, AAG has announced a single new route. (Yesterday, a summer-only PDX-ATL restart was announced.) This is not the usual way AS does new route announcements... Whether there's any significance to this, or if we will see another announcement tomorrow afternoon, I'm anxiously awaiting...

AS had their PDX Employee meeting on Wednesday and thier ANC meeting today. That's why the announcements were made. Looking to hear what will be announced on Monday at their LAX meeting!

EA CO AS · Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:24 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
I also find it intriguing that for 2 days in a row now, at 4pm, AAG has announced a single new route. (Yesterday, a summer-only PDX-ATL restart was announced.) This is not the usual way AS does new route announcements... Whether there's any significance to this, or if we will see another announcement tomorrow afternoon, I'm anxiously awaiting...

Quoting PDXFlyBoy (Reply 22):
AS had their PDX Employee meeting on Wednesday and thier ANC meeting today. That's why the announcements were made. Looking to hear what will be announced on Monday at their LAX meeting!

This. The Southern California employee meeting is on Monday at the Grand Californian on the Disneyland Resort complex. If any additional announcements come out, it'll be that afternoon.

doug_or · Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:29 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
I could see a weekly GEG-HNL flight working

That's a loooooong flight for a 737. Maybe safe in the summer.

MAH4546 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:49 am

Quoting doug_or (Reply 24):
That's a loooooong flight for a 737. Maybe safe in the summer.

It's incredibly easy for a 737. It's around the same flying time as BOSSFO or MIASEA.

SANFan · Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:16 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
The Southern California employee meeting is on Monday at the Grand Californian on the Disneyland Resort complex. If any additional announcements come out, it'll be that afternoon.

May I assume this 'Southern California' employee meeting on Monday includes AS's San Diego station?

bb

RWA380 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:35 am

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 20):
Since GQ quit flying in '09, kind of hard for them to be operating them....

Thanks for that, I though I was wrong when I wrote it. Who does the intra MT flying besides the one tag QX operates?

Quoting PDXFlyBoy (Reply 22):
AS had their PDX Employee meeting on Wednesday and thier ANC meeting today. That's why the announcements were made. Looking to hear what will be announced on Monday at their LAX meeting!

Well if they stick with the theme of seasonal, something in the winter to another Central American country, like Belize.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 25):
It's incredibly easy for a 737. It's around the same flying time as BOSSFO or MIASEA.

Biggest fuel difference is the ETOPS requirement carrying extra fuel & rafts. Even AS 738's from SEA & PDX can be diverted to OAK for fuel with strong enough headwinds, also at what elevation is Geiger Field?

HPRamper · Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:47 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 27):
Thanks for that, I though I was wrong when I wrote it. Who does the intra MT flying besides the one tag QX operates?

Nobody anymore. There is some small-market flying out of BIL to some Eastern Montana towns, but there is no service linking the larger cities. It really is badly needed in a state that is so large, driving end to end is the same as driving from ORD to NYC (the cities aren't linked with Amtrak either - it's driving or bust).

RWA380 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:00 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 28):
Nobody anymore. There is some small-market flying out of BIL to some Eastern Montana towns, but there is no service linking the larger cities. It really is badly needed in a state that is so large, driving end to end is the same as driving from ORD to NYC (the cities aren't linked with Amtrak either - it's driving or bust).

Color me surprised, I'm falling behind on what is happening in my Northwest backyard. I thought also, that with large distances between cities & often times frigid, snowy & icy driving. Also I think we talked Amtrak before & it goes far North of all the big cities, really a bummer for those who may need to do business in the State Capital for the day. Missing the old days of NW 727's & DC-10's flying to GTF, MSO, BZN, BTM, BIL & HLN with further stops in BIS or FAR before arriving MSP.

pdx · Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:20 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 29):
Missing the old days of NW 727's & DC-10's flying to GTF, MSO, BZN, BTM, BIL & HLN with further stops in BIS or FAR before arriving MSP.

Me too! NW had a PDX-MSP flight that stopped in those Montana cities. At the gate (before automation) the podium sign said the flight number, departure time, and destination of "Montana Points" and "Minneapolis"! Those were the days! Think it stopped in GEG first?

[Edited 2016-01-29 02:24:28]

RWA380 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:07 am

Quoting pdx (Reply 30):
Me too! NW had a PDX-MSP flight that stopped in those Montana cities. At the gate (before automation) the podium sign said the flight number, departure time, and destination of "Montana Points" and "Minneapolis"! Those were the days! Think it stopped in GEG first?

Very Jealous, I was flying a lot in the Northwest & West (just for fun) 79-82, I had never seen the "Montana Cities" destination being used, very cool though. I do remember flying NW to SEA & GEG in that time frame, I always tried for wide-bodies & I flew several DC-10 flights SEA-PDX/GEG, one to GEG was heading onwards, but a total of 3 stops before it arrived at ORD. SEA-GEG-GTF-BIL-ORD.

In 1979 NW flew non-stop from Geiger Field to: Butte (MT), Chicago O'Hare (IL), Great Falls (MT), Helena (MT), Minneapolis/Saint Paul (MN), Missoula (MT), Portland (OR), Seattle/Tacoma (WA)

EyeSky · Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:39 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 1):
What an odd-ball route. I do not believe that the Spokane market area has enough draw even for a weekly nonstop flight.

Lived in Spokane for 6 years in the 90's before moving to the other side of the Cascades and you'd be surprised how many former Alaska residents live in the area. Spokane is the first medium-sized, US city heading south that isn't in the Seattle metro which seems to have made it quite an attractive option for many people who are looking to move to the Lower 48. Did my time at EIL and EDF while on active duty and I think the slower pace and milder climate (you typically only have to deal with snow for 3 months out of the year) are the biggest draws. The cost of living, decent employment prospects, lack of traffic congestion along with the abundant hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation opportunities make it a an excellent choice for folks from The Last Frontier who are tired of the cold and snow. I think this is a great move by AS and I don't believe it will take this route long to prove its worth . Especially for those who like to travel back to Alaska during the spring/summer and fall for hunting and fishing trips or for the holidays to visit friends and family. We shall see ...

BravoOne · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:09 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
Interesting add. Maybe AS will add a few more non-stops from GEG. I could see a weekly GEG-HNL flight working too.

That seems a little bit far for the -800? Also hot and high ops out GEG would take their toll don;t you think? I'm asking because I don't know.

[Edited 2016-01-29 07:55:42]

Junction · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:39 pm

I briefly worked for NW in ANC in 1985, and we had a through flight routed ANC-SEA-PDX-GEG. When checking in passengers at ANC, I always noticed about 1/3 of the total were heading to GEG as final destination.

Coronado990 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:44 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
That was an old WA route, things sure have changed here in the Northwest over the years.

Wasn't Spokane-Calgary an old RW route?

HPRamper · Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:39 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 33):
Also hot and high ops out GEG would take their toll don;t you think? I'm asking because I don't know.

Spokane has a summer average temperature of 83 degrees and airport elevation of 2376' which is certainly not hot/high under any circumstances.

MIflyer12 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:58 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):
It is seasonal using a plane, based on the schedule, that would otherwise overnight between turns. Cheap fuel means these flights make sense.

Never mind cheap fuel and utilization - it's not optimized unless it makes more sense than every other potential route. Maybe there's something from GEG the next morning that will yield decent average fares.

mtnwest1979 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:10 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 28):
Nobody anymore. There is some small-market flying out of BIL to some Eastern Montana towns, but there is no service linking the larger cities. It really is badly needed in a state that is so large, driving end to end is the same as driving from ORD to NYC (the cities aren't linked with Amtrak either - it's driving or bust).

Yes Cape Air EAS to Glasglow, Wolf Point, Havre, Sidney, and Glendive.
Seems winter would be abpout only time intra MT could do well in the western part. Since speed limit is 80 on interstates makes it much quicker than 'back in the day' era.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 35):
Wasn't Spokane-Calgary an old RW route?

Yes it was, then Cascade did it until their demise, not sure if QX ever did it after that.

BravoOne · Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:13 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
Spokane has a summer average temperature of 83 degrees and airport elevation of 2376' which is certainly not hot/high under any circumstances.

Okay, I thought the temps were considerably higher in the summer months. Also thought the elevation was closer to 4000'. Thanks for the correction. Still a little far for the -800 I suspect with winter alternates being a potential issue.

ramprat74 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:16 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
Wasn't Spokane-Calgary an old RW route?

United flew that route at one time.

HPRamper · Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:01 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 38):
Seems winter would be abpout only time intra MT could do well in the western part. Since speed limit is 80 on interstates makes it much quicker than 'back in the day' era.

Even in summer, Billings-Missoula is still a nearly five hour drive. QX does plenty of intra-WA/OR flying over much shorter distances - and to smaller markets - so I don't really follow the logic of "people can drive so flights aren't needed."

ridgid727 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:44 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
That was an old WA route, things sure have changed here in the Northwest over the years.

Cascade flew it with metros.

http://www.departedflights.com/GEGp1.html

SEAtown · Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:53 pm

Cargo volume? With the Caterpillar plant near GEG and the demand for machine parts in ANC, FAI, and SCC, I'm almost surprised they are not saving this one for the -700 combi.

32andBelow · Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:56 pm

Quoting SEAtown (Reply 43):
Cargo volume? With the Caterpillar plant near GEG and the demand for machine parts in ANC, FAI, and SCC, I'm almost surprised they are not saving this one for the -700 combi.

the -700s are not going to be combi's

PlanesNTrains · Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 31):
one to GEG was heading onwards, but a total of 3 stops before it arrived at ORD. SEA-GEG-GTF-BIL-ORD.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 31):

In 1979 NW flew non-stop from Geiger Field to: Butte (MT), Chicago O'Hare (IL), Great Falls (MT), Helena (MT), Minneapolis/Saint Paul (MN), Missoula (MT), Portland (OR), Seattle/Tacoma (WA)

These flights made it fun to look at their route map in the yellow pages each year when it came out.

-Dave

dc10lover · Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:46 pm

Calgary, AB:

Airlines and Aircraft Serving Spokane Effective April 2, 1995

UNITED AIRLINES
Aircraft Operated:
Boeing 727-200, Boeing 737-200, Boeing 737-300, Boeing 737-500
Destinations Served:
Calgary (AB), Chicago O'Hare (IL), Denver (CO), San Francisco (CA)
http://www.departedflights.com/GEG95intro.html

GSPSPOT · Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:57 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 45):
These flights made it fun to look at their route map in the yellow pages each year when it came out.

OMG - a total tangent here, but when I was a kid I used to love to look in the yellow pages of bigger cities (than where I grew up) and marvel at all the airline ads & logos, and dream of flying to exotic places.... Like Cleveland, Kansas City, etc. lol

RWA380 · Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:11 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 35):
Wasn't Spokane-Calgary an old RW route?

You are correct ...

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 40):
United flew that route at one time.

Indeed back in the 90's ...

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 45):
These flights made it fun to look at their route map in the yellow pages each year when it came out

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 47):
OMG - a total tangent here, but when I was a kid I used to love to look in the yellow pages of bigger cities (than where I grew up) and marvel at all the airline ads & logos, and dream of flying to exotic places.... Like Cleveland, Kansas City, etc. lol

OK, I resemble both of those comments & the phone books I collected, then the OAG's which several travel agencies were happy to give away when next months copy arrived. I loved going to the airport & collecting timetables of course.

Viscount724 · Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:51 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 48):
Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 35):
Wasn't Spokane-Calgary an old RW route?

You are correct ...

Originally West Coast Airlines before they merged with Bonanza and Pacific to form Air West, then Hughes Airwest. It was one daily F-27 for many years on both West Coast and Air West. Became DC-9 not long after Air West became Hughes Airwest.

Many people in YYC didn't know about that service as for years it arrived YYC around 2200 and left early the next morning around 0700, so few people ever saw the aircraft at the airport.

West Coast wrote off an F-27 at YYC in 1963. Landed about 2 miles short of the runway in a farmer's field. No fatalities or serious injuries. The farmer kept the fuselage and used it for years as a shed. If you knew where to look, for many years after that incident, you could see the F-27 fuselage next to a barn on approach to one runway.

Aftermath of that event:
http://www.pbase.com/te_linde/image/158073666

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