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USAirALB
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:17 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 97):
The cornerstone of SQ's route is HKG. When they had non-stop flights to the U.S., SFO didn't make the cut for that reason. LAX and NYC are the bigger markets from Singapore.

This.

SQ could probably care less about UA launching SFO-SIN nonstop. Yeah, the high-yielding American traveler may jump to UA, but I am sure most Singaporeans will continue to fly SQ to SFO. What sounds better: a 16 hour flight crammed in a uncomfortable seat with surly service, only two tiny bad meals, and no free liquor OR a 20 hour journey with comfortable seats, free meals plus unlimited snacks/sandwiches, free booze, and nice FAs.

And its the same reason that when SQ relaunches nonstops to the USA, SFO will not be getting one. I am unsure of SQ15 via ICN, but every time I have flown SQ1/2 the majority of the passengers are simply SFO-HKG traffic.
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MaverickM11
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
Bingo. It's funny reading all the sour grapes on certain blogs that because their preferred alliance doesn't offer a nonstop to SIN, they say things like "I'd rather transit at HKG/ICN/insert-hub-here and waste 3-6 more hours traveling than dealing with UA".

  

Quoting airbazar (Reply 97):
SQ does not fly to SFO because of the traffic between SIN and SFO. The cornerstone of SQ's route is HKG.

No, SQ flies SINSFO *because* of the SINSFO market, however that market is not big enough to fill an SQ plane, never mind the range issue. HKG/ICN are necessary evils, and by no means the reason for SQ at SFO.

Quoting Citationjet (Reply 98):
I agree. I flew SQ from SFO to SIN with a stop in HKG a couple of years ago. I don't think I would switch to UA just to fly it nonstop. The service differential is too much to be tempted by the non-stop.

No serious traveler says "I'd rather add a stop and three hours so I can get a better meal on a plane". Leisure and award travel, maybe, but business travelers no way. Just look at the premium nonstops like NYCLAX/HKG/BOM/etc have to one stops and it's crystal clear.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 100):
SQ could probably care less about UA launching SFO-SIN nonstop. Yeah, the high-yielding American traveler may jump to UA, but I am sure most Singaporeans will continue to fly SQ to SFO. What sounds better: a 16 hour flight crammed in a uncomfortable seat with surly service, only two tiny bad meals, and no free liquor OR a 20 hour journey with comfortable seats, free meals plus unlimited snacks/sandwiches, free booze, and nice FAs.

This is not how things work. People will pay a hefty premium to save 4 hours of travel. There is no meal that makes up for that.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
a380787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:28 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 100):
Yeah, the high-yielding American traveler may jump to UA, but I am sure most Singaporeans will continue to fly SQ to SFO. What sounds better: a 16 hour flight crammed in a uncomfortable seat with surly service, only two tiny bad meals, and no free liquor OR a 20 hour journey with comfortable seats, free meals plus unlimited snacks/sandwiches, free booze, and nice FAs.

Your statements self-contradicted. You compared economy class service, then attempted to portray that as what "high-yielding traveler" seeks.

I've flown JFK-FRA-SIN on SQ's J bed and numerous times on the sCO J product. I can definitely attest that the SQ bed isn't all that comfortable ... with a really dim IFE screen to pair with it, and ridiculously priced Wi-Fi. The only saving grace on SQ's flight was their Singapore Sling cocktail, both the classic recipe as well the SQ-modified one.
 
B737900ER
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 100):
16 hour flight crammed in a uncomfortable seat with surly service, only two tiny bad meals, and no free liquor OR a 20 hour journey with comfortable seats, free meals plus unlimited snacks/sandwiches, free booze, and nice FAs.

Let's get real A.net. After 16 hours in any coach seat does your meal really matter? Is any seat comfortable after 16 hours? After 16 hours is that Singapore girl who's not giving you the time of day after the flight really worth the extra six to nine hours?
For all the marks that UA doesn't check it gets the most important one right. The nonstop makes up for many sins
 
Junction
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:39 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 101):
This is not how things work. People will pay a hefty premium to save 4 hours of travel. There is no meal that makes up for that.

In addition, UA's long haul international service is perfectly fine unless you dislike UA already. The sour grapes on here are only because other people's airline of choice is not doing this.
 
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United787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:40 pm

Congrats to UA, that is awesome. This is almost the last nail in the coffin for the NRT hub, congratulations to UA for successfully making that long transition.

Now they just have NRT-ICN. I always thought ORD-ICN was a missing link in the UA route map and surprised that UA only flies to ICN from SFO and NRT. Any chance we could see UA start ORD-ICN? Would that be enough to eliminate the need for NRT-ICN.

It will be interesting to see if DL is able to do something similar with SEA. SEA isn't SFO and UA didn't have Alaska to contend with. I could see AA also trying to do the same thing with LAX.
 
a380787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:43 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 105):

Now they just have NRT-ICN. I always thought ORD-ICN was a missing link in the UA route map and surprised that UA only flies to ICN from SFO and NRT. Any chance we could see UA start ORD-ICN? Would that be enough to eliminate the need for NRT-ICN.

NRT-ICN should just be handed to ANA entirely. Only problem is that ANA themselves only care about the higher-yielding HND-GMP market (100% of TYO-SEL capacity moved there), forcing UA to continue running the tag when it should squarely be ANA tuf.
 
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United787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:51 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 106):
NRT-ICN should just be handed to ANA entirely. Only problem is that ANA themselves only care about the higher-yielding HND-GMP market (100% of TYO-SEL capacity moved there), forcing UA to continue running the tag when it should squarely be ANA tuf.

But why do they need that tag? If they had ORD-ICN to complement SFO-ICN, what UA traffic couldn't be easily routed over SFO and ORD? Would they need HNL-ICN and/or GUM-ICN?
 
citationjet
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:53 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 101):
No serious traveler says "I'd rather add a stop and three hours so I can get a better meal on a plane". Leisure and award travel, maybe, but business travelers no way

I was a leisure traveler in Y. I arrived in SIN well rested after the SQ flight via HKG. I agree for a business traveler it may be different. The SQ differential in Y is much more than a better meal.

At the company that I work for (15K employees), UA is the least preferred airline for trans Pacific travel by the experienced business travelers, including our VP of China Operations.
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United Airline
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:56 pm

Seems that there are less UA haters here on Anet than it was 10 years ago. I am shocked

Well I suppose UA and SQ will do just as good.

SQ is better overall.

When will SQ restart SIN-LAX/EWR?
 
a380787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:01 pm

Quoting Citationjet (Reply 108):

I was a leisure traveler in Y. I arrived in SIN well rested after the SQ flight via HKG. I agree for a business traveler it may be different. The SQ differential in Y is much more than a better meal.

At the company that I work for (15K employees), UA is the least preferred airline for trans Pacific travel by the experienced business travelers, including our VP of China Operations.

Isn't free market competition wonderful ? People who don't value their time are free to choose 1-stop or even 2-stop choices just to enjoy the legendary SQ service.
 
avek00
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:08 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 109):
SQ is better overall.


The marketplace gives United higher average fares than SQ now matter how tight the sarongs are. And that's on existing one-stops with existing cabin products. Couple a SFO-SIN nonstop with UA's soon-to-be-launched BF suites, and the new one-stop access from many US cities to Singapore, and SQ will be relegated to a deserved afterthought in the market.
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adamblang
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:09 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 107):
But why do they need that tag? If they had ORD-ICN to complement SFO-ICN, what UA traffic couldn't be easily routed over SFO and ORD? Would they need HNL-ICN and/or GUM-ICN?

I wonder if the arrival of 777-300ERs frees up a 777-200ER for an EWR-ICN or ORD-ICN that puts the final nail in the coffin for NRT-ICN.
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Rdh3e
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:09 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 100):
What sounds better: a 16 hour flight crammed in a uncomfortable seat with surly service, only two tiny bad meals, and no free liquor OR a 20 hour journey with comfortable seats, free meals plus unlimited snacks/sandwiches, free booze, and nice FAs.

1. Dreamliner effect helps mitigate the narrower seat. Ask anyone who's flown the aircraft extensively, there really is a difference.
2. The FA's on UA are much nicer than you're purporting. I've never had a bad long-haul experience (except to Hawaii).
3. Meals have been dramatically improved as of late.
4. There is free liqour.
 
roseflyer
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 100):
SQ could probably care less about UA launching SFO-SIN nonstop. Yeah, the high-yielding American traveler may jump to UA, but I am sure most Singaporeans will continue to fly SQ to SFO. What sounds better: a 16 hour flight crammed in a uncomfortable seat with surly service, only two tiny bad meals, and no free liquor OR a 20 hour journey with comfortable seats, free meals plus unlimited snacks/sandwiches, free booze, and nice FAs.
UA seats aren't necessarily less comfortable. UA has economy plus which makes their economy better than SQ for many people and their business class is close in comfort.

UA food isn't great. I'm note sure I'd say SQ food in economy is that great either. UA has free beer and wine on most international flights including Singapore. Economy food is not that different. Can you tell which is which?

http://www.holysmithereens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/20140815_032041.jpg

or

http://www.sanspotter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/united_airlines_sfo_nrt_trip_report_07.jpg

There certainly are some who would choose a longer flight so that they can sip Dom Perignon, examine the quality of their Caviar eggs, count the number of ice cubes in their cocktails and are offended if a flight attendant has faded lipstick or a smudge to their mascara. That is not a particularly profitable segment. Business travelers who fly frequently want to get to their destination fast. The majority of people may pay a little more for service when the schedules are similar, but less likely to be willing to take a stopover. In general airlines have to lower prices to justify a stopover.

[Edited 2016-01-29 09:48:39]

[Edited 2016-01-29 09:49:31]
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Ytraveller
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:56 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 114):
Can you tell which is which?

Easily...
 
MaverickM11
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:00 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 114):
Economy food is not that different. Can you tell which is which?

And which one of the two would you give up an extra three hours of your life for?
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airbazar
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 99):

If you're a business, you can spend less in the short-term and acquire "gently used", less-efficient equipment that will need to be replaced sooner than a new generation product and show bigger profits earlier. Meanwhile a competitor bit the bullet and made the huge expenditures early on in a business plan and will realize the benefits down the road.

I'm not convincd of that explanation. For me the reason why DL wasn't an early adopter of the 787 was because they were in a terrible financial situation when the 787 was launched and eventually filed for bankruptcy. It's not some master plan about flying slightly older planes. It's the fact that they were broke and the backlog of orders grew too fast.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 101):

No, SQ flies SINSFO *because* of the SINSFO market, however that market is not big enough to fill an SQ plane, never mind the range issue. HKG/ICN are necessary evils, and by no means the reason for SQ at SFO.

You are right that SIN-SFO is not big enough, which is basically what I'm saying. However, HNL was a necessary evil. HKG is not a necessary evil. It's arguably SQ's biggest market and most profitable market. It's not by accident that SQ flies the A380 between SIN and HKG despite and has 7 daily flights, not counting freighters. It's a massive market. HKG-SFO is also a very large market, much larger than SIN-SFO. So it make very little sense for SQ to fly non-stop between SIN and SFO. They could have done it with the A345 and they didn't. Heck they could be doing it with the 77W (albeit limited westbound), and they still chose not to. SQ has a long history of "poaching" 5th freedom routes and SFO-SIN is the most notorious one.

It's a different market for UA. UA has a massive hub at SFO to feed onto this route so they can probably get enough people to fill the pane at a decent yield. As someone posted above, those are not the passengers SQ caters to. Having said that I have little doubt that SFO will be one of SQ's non-stop destinations with the A359LR but that's still a few years away.
 
S75752
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:55 pm

Funny how the AI SFO-DEL nonstop was widely proclaimed to be pointless, would never happen, and that AI would get slaughtered by the likes of 4-star EK and LH if they were to try it despite actually saving a ton of mileage and trouble and being on a 9-abreast 777, since AI has a worse reputation and product (or so they say...). Now, the SIN nonstop appears on a UA 787-9 (Hopefully they don't have the nerve to ask you to pay for the midflight snack on this one at least!) and it's being saluted and proclaimed that it will push the competition right off for high yielding travelers, despite not only going up against the 5 star SQ but the other 5 star options as well... While nearly overflying NRT, and HKG/ICN adding little mileage and time. And this is after all that hype over the aisle-access business seats that many airlines have, which UA doesn't even have yet! I guess it'll be the apparently gigantic SIN yield that holds it up special or something like that.

I'm not salty about this, I just find it amusing how quickly the opinion turns around as soon as it's SIN (I'm in favor of nonstops and I do argue for their superior importance to the aisle-access and other such things in the same manner!). I'm extremely proud of the huuuuge influx of routes that SFO and nearby siblings have gotten over the last year and continuing. I hope it does continue, and I'm betting we hear of BKK (if Thailand gets their act together) and SGN announced by UA or TG/VN sometime during the rest of the year.

But I'm still left with the burning question. *What* exactly creates SIN's massively yielding market without even getting back in business with SQ?

Quoting a380787 (Reply 106):
NRT-ICN should just be handed to ANA entirely. Only problem is that ANA themselves only care about the higher-yielding HND-GMP market (100% of TYO-SEL capacity moved there), forcing UA to continue running the tag when it should squarely be ANA tuf.

Surely the lack of NH on that makes it very prime 5th freedom flight turf for UA to keep for the *A loyal Japan traffic.

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 114):
Economy food is not that different. Can you tell which is which?

The difference there is kind of night and day. SQ doesn't give a rabbit food salad in place of those more filling options.

Not shown: the SQ midflight snack, and the UA flight attendant asking for your credit card (I hope that is not going to be the case on this route).

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 116):

And which one of the two would you give up an extra three hours of your life for?

Three hours during which you can also pick up some warm food in the terminal of the airport, in addition to the complimentary midflight snack(s). Meanwhile on UA, you are being asked for your credit card to buy a small box of various assorted (cold and dry) food items... Either that small box, or no food for some 12 or so hours, on that ticket you already paid quite a lot for.

Though I'm doubtful that UA would have the nerve to do buy-on-board instead of the midflight snack on this route.

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 103):
After 16 hours in any coach seat does your meal really matter? Is any seat comfortable after 16 hours?

Yes, because that meal and seat are what will determine if or how well you will sleep or relax on that flight, and how ready you are for what you need to do after the flight.

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 87):
What other airline offers 35 inch pitch for no extra charge?

Any airline that has a default 34 or 35 inch pitch in economy.

Besides, that is not "no extra charge", the charge is either the Economy+ fee, or the charge is having flown those 30K miles and $3K spent of PQD.
 
roseflyer
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:59 pm

UA knows how big the SIN-SFO market is. They loses some of the valuable seats on their popular HKG-SFO route to those connecting to SIN since not everyone goes through NRT. SFO-HKG needs a few extra seats, so the nonstop will certainly help.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 117):

I'm not convincd of that explanation. For me the reason why DL wasn't an early adopter of the 787 was because they were in a terrible financial situation when the 787 was launched and eventually filed for bankruptcy. It's not some master plan about flying slightly older planes. It's the fact that they were broke and the backlog of orders grew too fast.
DL had early 787 production slots due to the Northwest order that they deferred. DL/NW could probably have named their spot in the production run since they were such an early customer. NW was heavily involved in the design and development of the 787. They were a member of the team working with Boeing on the design.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 117):

You are right that SIN-SFO is not big enough, which is basically what I'm saying. However, HNL was a necessary evil. HKG is not a necessary evil. It's arguably SQ's biggest market and most profitable market. It's not by accident that SQ flies the A380 between SIN and HKG despite and has 7 daily flights, not counting freighters. It's a massive market. HKG-SFO is also a very large market, much larger than SIN-SFO. So it make very little sense for SQ to fly non-stop between SIN and SFO. They could have done it with the A345 and they didn't. Heck they could be doing it with the 77W (albeit limited westbound), and they still chose not to. SQ has a long history of "poaching" 5th freedom routes and SFO-SIN is the most notorious one.
SQ also has flown SIN-ICN-SFO for years. SQ isn't just going after the HKG-SFO market. They were flying ICN-SFO as well. That market has 3 airlines competing with SQ and each has a hub on one end. There must have been a lot of SIN-SFO traffic.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):

The difference there is kind of night and day. SQ doesn't give a rabbit food salad in place of those more filling options.

Really night and day? You'd spend an extra three hours of your life stopping in an airport and prolonging the amount of time you spend in an economy seat to get the SQ meal? Like I said earlier, there are the 2% of customers who will spend an extra time to make a connection for the type of service difference between the airlines.

[Edited 2016-01-29 11:04:20]
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RyanairGuru
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:19 pm

And just to point out that UA offers "desert" as a separate service after trays are cleared, so the only difference is a yoghurt.
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tortugamon
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:20 pm

Has anyone done a price comparison between SQ and UA yet? Would be interested in seeing how they match up.

tortugamon
 
codc10
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:26 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 119):
Really night and day? You'd spend an extra three hours of your life stopping in an airport and prolonging the amount of time you spend in an economy seat to get the SQ meal? Like I said earlier, there are the 2% of customers who will spend an extra time to make a connection for the type of service difference between the airlines.

I suspect the customer who is willing to stop for such reasons is not a customer willing to pay a premium for a nonstop, either... so UAL (or whichever the nonstop carrier is in a given market) does not want them.
 
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ua900
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:27 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 2):
How much will UA co-operate with SQ?

As much as always, close to nil, lounges aside.

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
What an awesome addition to the SFO hub.

Indeed.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 5):
There's still a dinky 738 doing NRT-ICN

And a dinky 738 doing NRT-GUM (albeit they use Hawaiian configured 772s as well)
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FSDan
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:35 pm

I don't think this has been answered yet... Does anyone know if UA will do 789 maintenance at SFO? That seems to be the station that will have the most 789s on the ground for extended periods of time. The 788s seem to be based at IAH with repositioning flights out to SFO, but I'm assuming the 789s won't be regularly rotating to IAH...
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United787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 123):
As much as always, close to nil, lounges aside.

I don't understand why people say this.

In 2008, my wife and I used UA miles to goto Bali. We booked our tickets on UA and flew in business class the whole way. The following was the routing. How is this not cooperating?

NH ORD-NRT
NH NRT-SIN (Air Japan)
SQ SIN-DPS
SQ DPS-SIN
UA SIN-HKG
UA HKG-ORD

BTW, the hard product on NH and UA was far superior to SQ. The soft product was all about the same. The UA staff SIN-HKG-ORD was excellent.

Furthermore, SIN was not all it is cracked up to be. It looked like a mall, big deal. It is poorly laid out and confusing. The transit hotel in the airport was a shit hole.

[Edited 2016-01-29 11:42:27]
 
S75752
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:40 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 119):
You'd spend an extra three hours of your life stopping in an airport and prolonging the amount of time you spend in an economy seat to get the SQ meal?

Depending on where you connect, maybe an hour of extra time in the economy seat for landing, boarding, taxi, and a small amount of added mileage. The rest of the time spent clearing customs, moving through airport, etc, all while stretching legs in a space that is not a tiny aisle.

That is also to get not only the SQ meals shown vs the single UA departure and single landing meal, but also the SQ midflight snack, 1 more meal for the HKG/ICN - SIN segment, and 1 meal option (beyond snack boxes if UA goes that way) in either airport to pay for.

That is, of course, assuming that passengers are deplaned and customs is cleared at ICN and HKG. If that's not the case, then... I wish that the US could have such an optimal system for similar flights.
 
UALWN
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:46 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 120):
And just to point out that UA offers "desert" as a separate service after trays are cleared, so the only difference is a yoghurt.

SQ offers ice cream as a separate service.
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a380787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:56 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 126):

That is, of course, assuming that passengers are deplaned and customs is cleared at ICN and HKG. If that's not the case, then... I wish that the US could have such an optimal system for similar flights.

Neither ICN nor HKG ever require clearing immigration and customs during international transits.
 
B737900ER
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:57 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
I'm not salty about this

Ok

Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
Yes, because that meal and seat are what will determine if or how well you will sleep or relax on that flight, and how ready you are for what you need to do after the flight.

Really? Come on now. The extra muffin SQ gives you isn't going to give you some magical refreshment to allow you to take on the day after your 16 hour flight. When comparing Y products it's almost all the same.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
Any airline that has a default 34 or 35 inch pitch in economy.

Which would be??

Quoting S75752 (Reply 126):
Depending on where you connect, maybe an hour of extra time in the economy seat for landing, boarding, taxi, and a small amount of added mileage. The rest of the time spent clearing customs, moving through airport, etc, all while stretching legs in a space that is not a tiny aisle.

As opposed to clearing customs, moving through the airport, and stretching your legs at your destination.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 126):
either airport to pay for.

You could be eating at a real resturant at your destination already, instead of flying. But hey, that mid flight snack...
 
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Ytraveller
Posts: 1287
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:58 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 120):
And just to point out that UA offers "desert" as a separate service after trays are cleared, so the only difference is a yoghurt.

Well the SQ main course looks much more appetising than UA's one and that salad.

I realise it's trivial comparing these 2 dishes, but I've never been impressed by US airline catering. I flew DFW-MAD in Y and got a Kraft-cheesy pasta and an FA who yelled at my dad for not requesting his pre ordered special meal earlier.

I will be flying from BLR to the US this summer, the options involved UA DEL-EWR vs. LH via FRA. I ultimately decided to go with LH (not just because of the food of course)
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2106
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 114):
UA seats aren't necessarily less comfortable. UA has economy plus which makes their economy better than SQ for many people and their business class is close in comfort.

UA food isn't great. I'm note sure I'd say SQ food in economy is that great either. UA has free beer and wine on most international flights including Singapore. Economy food is not that different. Can you tell which is which?

The difference is I don't have to pay extra to have a comfortable seat on SQ. I do on UA. I have to pay for snacks on UA. I don't on SQ.

When I flew SQ, I thought the meal service was pretty good considering I was in Y.
During the SFO-HKG leg, the service went:
-Hot washcloths passed out before the safety video followed by amenity kits and menus
-Juice, water, white wine, and beef offered of a tray once clear of 10,000 ft
-Hot dinner featuring a western, Asian, or Indian choice along with full bar service with multiple cocktails on the menu (you can't get a Martini in Y on any other airline I believe)
-Coffee, Tea refills
-Lights out and peanuts, chips, apples, chocolate bars, cookies, granola bars were available along with a full bar
-Hot washcloths and full hot breakfast featuring a western, Asian, or Indian choice

Together with the friendly crew and comfortable seats, the flight flew by.

UA will likely offer dinner and breakfast but that's it.
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roseflyer
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 131):

The difference is I don't have to pay extra to have a comfortable seat on SQ. I do on UA. I have to pay for snacks on UA. I don't on SQ.
UA has 88 Econ + seats on the 787-9 and 116 regular seats. For the high revenue passengers, they often qualify for E+. Not everyone does, but the loyal UA people do. Also there are a lot of op ups to economy plus. It's not free, but for many it is.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 131):
When I flew SQ, I thought the meal service was pretty good considering I was in Y.
During the SFO-HKG leg, the service went:
-Hot washcloths passed out before the safety video followed by amenity kits and menus
-Juice, water, white wine, and beef offered of a tray once clear of 10,000 ft
-Hot dinner featuring a western, Asian, or Indian choice along with full bar service with multiple cocktails on the menu (you can't get a Martini in Y on any other airline I believe)
-Coffee, Tea refills
-Lights out and peanuts, chips, apples, chocolate bars, cookies, granola bars were available along with a full bar
-Hot washcloths and full hot breakfast featuring a western, Asian, or Indian choice

Together with the friendly crew and comfortable seats, the flight flew by.

UA will likely offer dinner and breakfast but that's it.

Most normal flyers are not going to spend 2-4 hours more of their time flying for that meal service if the price is the same. UA can even charge more than SQ and despite the service differences get more people wanting to fly with them because they are nonstop. Nonstop flights are competitive advantage. Service is a competitive advantage, but nonstop is far more valuable in the bigger picture. As I said before, there are some exceptions for people who really value service. The reason why I posted the photos of the food is to point out that while one is better than the other, both look pretty bad. I wouldn't pay money for either meal in a restaurant. If I am flying long haul in economy I want to get to my destination as soon as possible and get off the plane. A stopover in HKG is pointless since SFO-HKG is still 13 hours. 2 extra hours on top of 13 isn't much.

[Edited 2016-01-29 12:27:47]
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a380787
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 131):

SQ SFO-HKG departs at 0115 and most likely won't have meal service till 0200 or later. Any other person would've pre-dined on land and just go straight to sleep instead of forcing one to stay up just to enjoy the meal.

Taking SQ's SFO-HKG-SIN would land at 1150 at the earliest, so if you were businessmen, the earliest possible time to even have a meeting is 1300 - basically half a day lost right there.
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:53 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 66):
Although the timings are attractive, with a morning departure from Singapore and a same day morning arrival into SFO, this flight has virtually no connections to Florida. The return timings are also good. I will continue to fly SQ and leverage their connections with VX to Florida.

Where in Florida are you looking? I just did a quick check and I was able to book a one stop from MCO-SFO-SIN-SFO-MCO.

neither involve a narrow body red eye nor an overnight layover. it's an 1 hr 50 minute layover in SFO on the outbound and a 5 hr 15 minute layover in SFO on the return.
 
VC10er
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:10 pm

It would be even better if UA introduces it's NEW upcoming BF seat with all aisle access. For a 16 hour trip, that is many times to the LAV, and if you have a bad seat mate...oy vay.

When I went to Singapore on UA in the past, I would buy my way up into F if upgrade certs wouldn't work.

What great fanfare it would be for UA to launch their new PREMIUM seat on this route!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:13 pm

So what year was the NRT hubs at its peak for UAL and what did the schedule look like?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
bharathkv
Posts: 69
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:31 pm

Great move. If UA can connect through SQ to Indian destinations from SIN then a majority of the Indian travelers using SQ will chose UA.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17856
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:46 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 117):
HKG-SFO is also a very large market, much larger than SIN-SFO. So it make very little sense for SQ to fly non-stop between SIN and SFO.

SQ is an also ran in this market, after UA and CX; it has zero leverage on either end beyond multiple daily HKGSIN which I don't doubt are profitable. It's been fairly well estimated that SQ has lost money on longhaul for years, and these tags stand out as segments that are particularly rough. Airlines have been dropping fifth freedom flying left and right over the years, and it's not because it's profitable flying.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
Three hours during which you can also pick up some warm food in the terminal of the airport, in addition to the complimentary midflight snack(s).

This does not happen in the real world, at least not without a steep discount.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
Yes, because that meal and seat are what will determine if or how well you will sleep or relax on that flight, and how ready you are for what you need to do after the flight.

Nope. If there was any correlation at all between fare and meal/seat in Y things would look quite different in the airline landscape.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 131):
The difference is I don't have to pay extra to have a comfortable seat on SQ. I do on UA. I have to pay for snacks on UA. I don't on SQ.

Well now you can pay SQ less for a longer flight including a stop, and for your discounted fare SQ can spend more in amenities. Greater cost to SQ for less revenue...

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 130):
I ultimately decided to go with LH (not just because of the food of course)

In Y? The catering is identical. In J, UA is probably better. Was LH more expensive than UA?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2106
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:10 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 133):
SQ SFO-HKG departs at 0115 and most likely won't have meal service till 0200 or later. Any other person would've pre-dined on land and just go straight to sleep instead of forcing one to stay up just to enjoy the meal.

Yet, when I flew it once during 2015 and twice during 2014, everyone in my cabin section appeared to be eating dinner. The cabin lights were on full blast for the first two hours of the flight.
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boilerla
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:26 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 138):
In Y? The catering is identical. In J, UA is probably better. Was LH more expensive than UA?

UA to India is usually better than LH. I do that trip 4-5 times a year, J or Y, LH and UA. The best part of LH is the true premium economy, but the catering for that isn't worth writing home about--it's more about the seat. Some of LH's catering is down right nasty (even in J, never *ever* serve seafood on a 10 hour flight please...there's not enough lavs!). The UA J staff on ORD-FRA is excellent; I've had some of the best service on any airline on those flights. Besides, I avoid airline food whenever possible even in J--it's about as healthy as a Big Mac.

But a major downside for me for LH is connecting at FRA. Give yourself at least an hour, more if the airport is busy. Even with a 90 minute layover I barely had time to get to my gate one time due to a long line at security.

This is one of the reasons a nonstop usually wins. I don't want the hassle of possibly missing my flight, rushing through the airport and dealing with another boarding process/airport transit to save $200. Same reason I have no doubt UA will find success on this flight.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 138):
Well now you can pay SQ less for a longer flight including a stop, and for your discounted fare SQ can spend more in amenities. Greater cost to SQ for less revenue...

Exactly--UA isn't really chasing the person who wants to save $100 by connecting in HKG.

Congrats to UA.
 
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Ytraveller
Posts: 1287
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:40 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 138):
In Y? The catering is identical. In J, UA is probably better. Was LH more expensive than UA?

Actually in J. LH was a bit more expensive, but UA's itinerary involved a 5hr EWR-LAS in Y. Also, I considered LH's 'more Indian than you think' campaign which includes better meals supposedly, and I figured the service might be better. Plus it's 2 747-8s on the upper deck, over a single 777.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 140):
UA to India is usually better than LH.

That's interesting, perhaps I will consider them next time. DEL-EWR would become my longest flight and the connecting flight from BLR leaves in the evening, vs LH's 3 am departure!

[Edited 2016-01-29 14:43:14]
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3587
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:45 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
I'm not salty about this, I just find it amusing how quickly the opinion turns around as soon as it's SIN
Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
midflight snack
Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
the SQ midflight snack
Quoting S75752 (Reply 118):
complimentary midflight snack(s)
Quoting S75752 (Reply 126):
but also the SQ midflight snack

You and your midflight snack. Every. Damn. Thread. No one else cares, it's not a decision driver.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:59 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 142):

We should respect the decisions of people who decide multi hundred / thousand dollar flights based on availability of free mid flight snack

/s
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5985
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:06 pm

Great move by UA, but Id take SQ over them regardless due to the drastic difference in service.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
L0VE2FLY
Posts: 1001
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:07 pm

The efficiency of the 787 & A350 combined with the low oil prices will bring more ULH flights in the near future, maybe routes like: BKK-LAX/JFK, PER-LHR, LAX/SFO-DEL/BOM AI is already flying SFO-DEL.
 
flyenthu
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:31 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 114):
Can you tell which is which?

Of course. The top one is SQ. Real glass, real fruit, silverware (not shown) and a ton of beverage options (did I mention Singapore Sling?). Also, a menu with options. And, so many choices to snack stocked in the galley throughout the flight- fruits, different types of sandwiches, candy bars. I am talking about ultra long hauls like IAH-DME-SIN, SFO-ICN-SIN.

I must commend UA on this move though. Quite brilliant! But, every likely I will stick to SQ.  
 
roseflyer
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:43 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 143):


We should respect the decisions of people who decide multi hundred / thousand dollar flights based on availability of free mid flight snack

Haha. The SQ mid flight snack is a plastic wrapped sandwich that you can buy for a couple bucks at a gas station before your flight. Some airlines serve cup o noodles that you can buy for fifty cents at the grocery store. It would be interesting if someone was willing to spend an extra few hours of their life to get that for free.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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ua900
Posts: 1539
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:56 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 125):
In 2008, my wife and I used UA miles to goto Bali. We booked our tickets on UA and flew in business class the whole way. The following was the routing. How is this not cooperating?

UA will route you on the devil for miles. Try buying revenue tickets on ua.com or via 1-800-756-1000 (their line for lowly 1Ks), something really complicated like SQ JFK-FRA non-stop  
Quoting United787 (Reply 125):
The soft product was all about the same.

Have you *ever* seen a UA crew stitch your name on a stuffed animal doll, and btw it's not always the same doll?

Quoting VC10er (Reply 135):
It would be even better if UA introduces it's NEW upcoming BF seat with all aisle access. For a 16 hour trip, that is many times to the LAV, and if you have a bad seat mate...oy vay.

UA is too married to the buy up revenue to go something less than 2-2-2 on a 789. People who go to the Lav a lot should always make sure to get an aisle seat. Unless you're buying at the very last minute a lot you shouldn't end up in a window seat unless you chose it. If you got into C through upgrade, you get what you get.


Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 144):
Great move by UA, but Id take SQ over them regardless due to the drastic difference in service.

Unless we're talking paid F I disagree. C cabin on a 789 is about as good as it gets with the new UA since GF is going away and at any rate the 789 is a pretty comfortable plane due to the lighting, humidity and cabin altitude.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 140):
Give yourself at least an hour, more if the airport is busy. Even with a 90 minute layover I barely had time to get to my gate one time due to a long line at security.

You're a lot faster than I am. For FRA connections I now do 4-5 hours just to have time and not be rushed. Obviously a great opportunity to shop around as well for me, but even if I didn't two hours wouldn't be doable 50% of the time.
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Revelation
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United Announces SFO-SIN - Part 1

Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:01 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 20):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
This should solidify the belief that 787 indeed is a game changer.

At this point, there is absolutely no question about it.

Yet UA just happily swapped 787 delivery positions in favor of 77W positions...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
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