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Miami
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Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:29 am

Quote:
eff 01MAY16 Atlanta – Orlando Initially operates 6 daily in May, gradual increase to up to 14 daily with A321 by October
eff 01JUN16 Atlanta – Ft. Lauderdale 1 daily (3 daily from 05JUL16, gradual increase to up to 8 daily with A321 by August)
eff 03SEP16 Atlanta – Tampa 1 daily (6 daily in October)
eff 06NOV16 Atlanta – Ft. Myers 1 daily (2 daily from 17DEC16)
eff 06NOV16 Atlanta – Jacksonville FL 4 daily (5 daily from 17DEC16)

Thanks to airlineroute for the info.

http://airlineroute.net/2016/01/31/dl-321-update1/


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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:33 am

Wow. I remember when MCO-ATL had similar frequency with 767s, L1011s and 777s.

Glad to see the 321 finally enter the fleet!
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:23 am

Glad to see the a321s and not the 737-900s taking over the ATL-MCO. It's not that I have anything against the -900, but the a321 looks more like the 757 and it makes me happy  

It's a stupid-ass reason, I know, but still.
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avi8
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:30 am

So they are all gonna me dedicated to Florida basically. I guess it's a good use given the amount of frequency those cities have.
avi8
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:40 am

Are the A321s going to find themselves on similar-length flights to other places currently run by 739s or 757s (STL, RDU, CMH, etc)?
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Okcflyer
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:02 am

Is Delta equipping their A321's with belly aux tanks? I'm a bit surprised Delta is only fitting 192 (or 189?) seats. Seems a tad bit low for them.

Should be a comfortable ride! Can't wait to ride on one in the future
 
rta
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:37 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 4):
Are the A321s going to find themselves on similar-length flights to other places currently run by 739s or 757s (STL, RDU, CMH, etc)?

I'm not sure those places have the demand for a larger plane? Sure some of them get 757s here and there, but not at the same amount as Florida gets them.

Quoting OKCFlyer (Reply 5):
Is Delta equipping their A321's with belly aux tanks? I'm a bit surprised Delta is only fitting 192 (or 189?) seats. Seems a tad bit low for them.

I'd be surprised if they had the aux tanks. Seems like Delta flies a lot of short routes with 757s and that the A321s would be fine on these routes, while the 757s can be used on the routes that actually need the range/payload.

Also, the seating seems about average. American has a slightly fewer number of seats in their A321s.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:41 am

I remember hearing the extra tanks can be loaded unloaded if needed overnight. This should allow them to be pre-fitted and set to 0, 1 or 2 tanks as needed for the routes they serve. I doubt ATL/JFK/LGA-Florida would ever need the extra tanks.

[Edited 2016-01-31 19:43:06]
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:50 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 7):

No. Certainly not needed for midcons or NE-FL routes. US Airways uses the tanks for their longest routes ex CLT and PHL.
What gets measured gets done.
 
flyboy80
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:51 am

Quoting OKCFlyer (Reply 5):
Is Delta equipping their A321's with belly aux tanks? I'm a bit surprised Delta is only fitting 192 (or 189?) seats. Seems a tad bit low for them.

Should be a comfortable ride! Can't wait to ride on one in the future

Actually, with the 20F seats, I think they are going to be quite dense compared to US/AA 321s.
 
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N776AU
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:18 pm

So basically replacing all the 757s that run to Florida. Does that cover only those being retired or will there be extra 757s flying elsewhere?
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usdcaguy
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:48 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 10):
Does that cover only those being retired or will there be extra 757s flying elsewhere?

My guess is that the older ones, I believe the 752s, will be retired and replaced with 739s on other routes. It would have been nice had Boeing come out with a 757neo version. It's not clear what the history was behind why they did not.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 9):

Actually, with the 20F seats, I think they are going to be quite dense compared to US/AA 321s.

There will be a difference in pitch but I wouldn't go as far as saying "quite dense". It's one extra row of F. US Uses har bulkhead partitions. IDK if DL will go with the soft one as to allow the first row of coach to be closer to the last row of F. It may turn out to be the same...
What gets measured gets done.
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:59 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 12):
There will be a difference in pitch but I wouldn't go as far as saying "quite dense". It's one extra row of F. US Uses har bulkhead partitions. IDK if DL will go with the soft one as to allow the first row of coach to be closer to the last row of F. It may turn out to be the same...

Yes, now add the fact that compared to the PMUS A321s DL has Y+, and compared to the PMAA A321 (non-T) they will have 3 less Y+ (so half a row) but 10 more Y seats in addition to that extra row of F, and DL's A321's still has more total seats than both those configurations...

Comfortliners these will not be, but that is not surprising for anyone who has flown on DL's 739s or updated A319/A320s. I'm sure the interior will be very pretty though.

[Edited 2016-02-01 05:59:33]
 
roseflyer
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:54 pm

ATL to Florida makes sense for these airplanes. DL needs the capacity and the high cycle 757s are leaving the fleet.

This is quite a bit different than the entry into service for the 737-900ERs. Those planes started with flying transcon routes like ATL-SFO/LAX. There's a rumor on A.net that 737s are more efficient on shorter routes and A321s on longer routes, but this doesn't go with that strategy.   
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Clipper101
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:52 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 7):
I remember hearing the extra tanks can be loaded unloaded if needed overnight. This should allow them to be pre-fitted and set to 0, 1 or 2 tanks as needed for the routes they serve.

True. Basically these fuel tanks are shaped as the shap of cargo containers & can take place of cargo containers at specific positions or can be removed depending on operational requirements overnight as you stated. It is nothing unusual.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:59 pm

I expect this pattern will change over time. Short routes when they first enter the fleet, to keep them close to home and ease aircraft substitutions when something goes wrong. Then as they integrate into the operation I would expect to see them move to some longer routes.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:05 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 10):
So basically replacing all the 757s that run to Florida.

Not quite. MIA, PBI & SRQ see DL 757....time will tell

....although, doesn't MIA' 757s mainly go to DTW???
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mcogator
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:19 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 10):
So basically replacing all the 757s that run to Florida.

I think there are 16 daily MCO-ATL flights, so I also wonder if these will replace all of the 757s, or just most of them. Looking at todays schedule, there are 11 x 757, 4 x 739, and 1 x MD88 making the run today.
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MSPNWA
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:28 pm

192 seats with 20F and an E+ section is a sardine can. But that is consistent with the direction DL is going with their fleet. Expect very dense configurations.
 
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N776AU
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting mcogator (Reply 18):
Looking at todays schedule, there are 11 x 757, 4 x 739, and 1 x MD88 making the run today.

And very often it's all 757-200s and 300s. It does seem like they run a flight down there every hour on the half hour.
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DocLightning
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:01 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 14):
There's a rumor on A.net that 737s are more efficient on shorter routes and A321s on longer routes, but this doesn't go with that strategy

The 737 was originally designed for a shorter, higher-frequency flights than the A320. On balance, if there is any difference it is probably quite small.

The A321 has enough advantages over the 738 that a 0.5% (or smaller) efficiency boost probably works out to a rounding error.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 13):

Good point. Didn't take Economy Comfort into consideration. Yes, I think Y will be squeeze   

I was quite surprised at how roommy US's A321s were the first time I rode on one PHX-CLT some time back in Y.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 16):

Absolutely the routing will eventually change. As the fleet gets larger I expect DL to "stretch" their legs. They will be rotated. Rumor is there will be a fairly large movement of the type through MSP once the fleet matures.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 18):


Come that time of year it goes up to 17x. 14x will be A321 the rest is a mix of 752/753.
What gets measured gets done.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:07 am

I wish DL would have the courage to give coach passengers 34" pitch. I think it would be such a winner with passengers. But the name of the game now is "revenue enhancement." I swear if they could strap lawn chairs to the wings they would.
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MIflyer12
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:34 am

Coach passengers can have 34" pitch on over 1,100 Delta and Delta Connection aircraft. It's called Comfort+.
 
cokepopper
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:45 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 23):

I wish DL would have the courage to give coach passengers 34" pitch. I think it would be such a winner with passengers. But the name of the game now is "revenue enhancement." I swear if they could strap lawn chairs to the wings they would.

What should f/c get? The New Premium economy? Comfort + ?
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:48 am

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 11):
It would have been nice had Boeing come out with a 757neo version. It's not clear what the history was behind why they did not.

It's probably because no-one was interested in buying the 757 anymore.

I don't like the demise of the 757 either, but that's the reality of it.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:01 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 23):
I wish DL would have the courage to give coach passengers 34" pitch. I think it would be such a winner with passengers. But the name of the game now is "revenue enhancement." I swear if they could strap lawn chairs to the wings they would.

The flying public of today are now willing to pay for 34".
What gets measured gets done.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 27):
The flying public of today are now willing to pay for 34".

Some of them. Others still pitch a fit along the lines of "I paid $200 for this ticket and now my vacation is ruined!" when their transcon flight runs 15 minutes late.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting antoniemey (Reply 28):
Some of them. Others still pitch a fit along the lines of "I paid $200 for this ticket and now my vacation is ruined!" when their transcon flight runs 15 minutes late.

You're absolutely right. Some will, which is why all the networks now offer some form of E+ or whatever they chose to call it. For those that want a bigger seat, semi-personalized service and food, there's domestic first class  
What gets measured gets done.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:25 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 23):
I wish DL would have the courage to give coach passengers 34" pitch.

DL analysts have identified exactly how many passengers are willing to pay enough for 34" pitch to cover the additional cost. Based on that analysis they sized the Economy Comfort sections the way they did.

Personally, I'd rather have 31" pitch and cheaper tickets. I'm not tall but I'm broad-shouldered... an extra inch of width would be more useful to me.
 
Okcflyer
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:12 am

Looks like A321's will be deployed on routes where raw capacity is needed. The A321 is bigger than the 739. It will seat two rows more in Delta trim. For some of the routes being discussed, running A321's over 739's will shave one round trip over the course of a day. I heard a comment on anet months ago that Delta would deploy them on high capacity east coast routes mostly. This makes sense due to its increased capacity. If they do this and forgo transcon ability, they can save significant complexity and cost not carrying around or screwing with aux tanks. The 739's can do it out of the box and they will still have plenty of 757's for the foreseeable future.

We must not forget Delta also went with CFM engines, likely due to financing terms, but it also is an excellent fit for the a hypothetical east coast network.
 
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vatveng
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:33 am

My only problem with today's tight seat pitch is the seat-back screens. Having moving video literally 5 inches from my face when the person in front reclines is nauseating. I've started bringing something to cover the screen so it doesn't make me sick. One of many reasons I prefer DL's MD fleet, there's no seat-back video but there is WiFi so I can watch on my tablet at a comfortable distance, like in my lap.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:49 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 30):
Personally, I'd rather have 31" pitch and cheaper tickets. I'm not tall but I'm broad-shouldered... an extra inch of width would be more useful to me.

That is where the extra width of the A319/320/321 really comes into play. They can offer an extra inch of width.

Oh for the days when the middle seat would be empty and you could lift the arm rest and feel comfortable.

I have to admit Comfort + has been a great success and I would look for the number of seats allocated to it to gradually increase over time.
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burnsie28
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:25 pm

Quoting vatveng (Reply 32):

My only problem with today's tight seat pitch is the seat-back screens. Having moving video literally 5 inches from my face when the person in front reclines is nauseating. I've started bringing something to cover the screen so it doesn't make me sick. One of many reasons I prefer DL's MD fleet, there's no seat-back video but there is WiFi so I can watch on my tablet at a comfortable distance, like in my lap.

You know you can just turn off the screen?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:20 pm

Quoting OKCFlyer (Reply 31):

I think we are all underestimating what these planes will actually be doing. You don't need 40 frames to run ATL-FL and other east coast high density routes. They will be utilized where needed and DL has a way of "optimized" a/c not only by capacity but by maximizing average stage length.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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vatveng
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:10 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 34):
You know you can just turn off the screen?

Not always. They don't all have that function. The last time I flew F9, I tried to turn off the screen and it played ads the whole way to Denver.
 
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tlecam
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:30 pm

I'm a little surprised that they'd be flying relatively short haul routes on the east coast. I would have guessed that they'd be doing a lot of west coast to central/east coast hub flying too.
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e38
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:08 pm

Quoting rbavfan (reply 7), ". . . extra tanks can be loaded unloaded overnight if needed."

Delta's A-321s will not have this capability. They will have three fuel tanks--one in each wing and a center tank.

e38
 
mcg
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:48 pm

Quoting vatveng (Reply 36):
Not always. They don't all have that function. The last time I flew F9, I tried to turn off the screen and it played ads the whole way to Denver.

I turned off the screen last time I was on F9.
 
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vatveng
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:16 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 39):
I turned off the screen last time I was on F9.

So maybe they had different software versions? My point was that it's inconsistent as to whether you can actually turn the screen off.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:25 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):


Absolutely the routing will eventually change. As the fleet gets larger I expect DL to "stretch" their legs. They will be rotated. Rumor is there will be a fairly large movement of the type through MSP once the fleet matures.

I'm sure they will get longer flying but I don't think you will see many true transcons with them.

putting them in MSP and doing much like the do with the MD90s up there wouldn't shock me at all though.

Quoting OKCFlyer (Reply 31):
We must not forget Delta also went with CFM engines, likely due to financing terms, but it also is an excellent fit for the a hypothetical east coast network.

DL has an in-house CFM56-5B shop. I imagine that (plus DL is buddy buddy with CFM) is why.

The current CFM56-5A and V2500 engines (D5 engines on the MD90s) are sent out of house.

hopefully once DL gets some of its own CFM56-5Bs in-house they will start to pick up some more MRO engines. IIRC most of the MRO CFM56s currently are -7Bs.

Oh PS, I wouldn't have an issue at all with the -5As and the V2500s coming in-house either      
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:20 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 41):
CFM56-5A

Why send the 5A's out?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Outlines A321 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:47 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 42):

Why send the 5A's out?

Well I am going to guess its a few things.
I believe both the CFM56-5As and PW4168s are under long term contracts (SECMA and PW respectively) that I think end in either 2018 or 2020. I do not know if DL could have broken those contracts because of the merger (they did AFAIK for PW4056s and PW2000s) or not.
Also I don't know if the CFM shop has the room (physical room) for 250+ engines to come in-house. That is a lot of engines. (plus 300+ engines from the 739 and 321 orders)
finally no idea how the OEMs would feel about it.

judging on what management has said, i believe, if they could easily, the V2500s and CFM56-5As would be in-house. I just don't know how easy that would be.

honestly I have no idea how they are going to fit the BR715s in the current engine shop. Last time I was over there it seemed like the shop was going to burst.

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