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KarelXWB
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TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:45 am

Thai Airways plans to operate the A350 to Melbourne from 1st of July, followed by a second daily from 1st of August.

Aircraft will feature 321 seats (C32 Y289).

Quote:
"Bangkok – Melbourne Airbus A350-900XWB, with configuration of C32Y289, to operate following service, instead of 777-200ER:

eff 01JUL16 TG465/466

eff 01AUG16 TG461/462"

Source
http://twitter.com/airlineroute/status/693760214324113408
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
AOMlover
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:54 am

That's quite good news, but a bit surprising considering they recently announced their intention to defer the EIS of the A350 to 2018:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/thai-to-defer-delivery-of-14-widebodies-421050/
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:58 am

Quoting AOMlover (Reply 1):
but a bit surprising

The first two A350s are probably too far advanced in final assembly to allow a deferral. I suppose only the remaining 10 aircraft will be deferred.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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christao17
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:35 am

Fantastic, another aircraft type at TG. They seem to fly just about everything that is sold by an airline manufacturer. No wonder they cannot turn a profit!
More than a dozen years flying in and around Asia...
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:45 am

Quoting christao17 (Reply 3):
another aircraft type at TG. They seem to fly just about everything that is sold by an airline manufacturer

Thai Airways are streamlining the fleet though, A300s and A340s have all been retired.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
jfk777
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:19 pm

Thai should have never purchased A380 and should park its 744 fleet even with fuel being cheap at present. Thai's fleet is too small for A330, A350, 787 and every type of 777 except the 777-200LR.
 
AngMoh
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:29 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

Aircraft will feature 321 seats (C32 Y289).
Quoting christao17 (Reply 3):
Fantastic, another aircraft type at TG. They seem to fly just about everything that is sold by an airline manufacturer. No wonder they cannot turn a profit!

At least this one is configured as high density and not premium heavy.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
SKAirbus
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:45 pm

Quoting christao17 (Reply 3):
Fantastic, another aircraft type at TG. They seem to fly just about everything that is sold by an airline manufacturer. No wonder they cannot turn a profit!

They don't need to turn a profit... They are prestige project for the Thai government and most likely receive a lot of subsidy.
Base: BRU
 
lawair
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:24 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 6):
At least this one is configured as high density and not premium heavy

This configuration is roughly similar to their existing 777s. When compared to the 777-200, it's actually a slight increase in premium seats.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 7):
They don't need to turn a profit... They are prestige project for the Thai government and most likely receive a lot of subsidy.

But they're also publicly traded. And the government has not subsidized the carrier in recent history, though it offered short term loans a couple years ago. The government has also been behind the recent push to make heavy cost cuts to operations.

The carrier was consistently profitable up until 2008, during which it had a more diverse fleet than it does now. Since then it has still had three profitable years.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):

Thai should have never purchased A380 and should park its 744 fleet even with fuel being cheap at present. Thai's fleet is too small for A330, A350, 787 and every type of 777 except the 777-200LR

The A380s came online at a rough time but since then have been needed on some routes. The 744s are being retired over the next few years, in addition to the oldest A330s and 777s. The A320s are going back to the subsidiary soon. The carrier is going to have a much simpler fleet going forward. Though I agree, 6 aircraft is a small fleet for an aircraft type.
 
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terrificturk
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:43 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 7):
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 7):
They don't need to turn a profit... They are prestige project for the Thai government and most likely receive a lot of subsidy.

The get indirect subisidies, such as a tax-free status, which also their employees enjoy.
 
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mercure1
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:51 pm

Quoting lawair (Reply 8):
But they're also publicly traded.

Publicly traded hardly means a commercial enterprise as TG is still very much a government company.

Even their own documents state so.

Company profile
Thai Airways International Public Co,.ltd is a national enterprise subordinated to the Ministry of Transport. It is a public company registered in The Securities Exchange of Thailand since 1991 with the Ministry of Finance as a dominance shareholder at more then 50%.


http://www.thaiairways.com/en/about_thai/company_profile/index.page
mercure f-wtcc
 
Thai77w
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:15 pm

TG A380s make them money, they aren't going anywhere.

All the oldest 330s have been parked, with the A340 and some 744.

The A350s are to partially replace the oldest 772 which they begin withdrawing late this year/early next year.

744 will start going next year, due to low fuel prices, like many airlines is holding on to them for now as they are fully paid off and profitable again.

The 777 fleet was largely originally purchased in an era before anyone one knew the 77W would be so good. The 77E was bought for routes such as AKL, MAD etc. having the 777 in various subtypes isn't as expensive as you think as so much is interchangeable.

You will start to really see the beginning of their fleet look for the next 10 years:

A380/350/330
B77W/773/77E/787

The 320s go back to Thai Smile, 734 will be retired.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
wingflex744
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:05 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):

Quoting christao17 (Reply 3):
another aircraft type at TG. They seem to fly just about everything that is sold by an airline manufacturer

Thai Airways are streamlining the fleet though, A300s and A340s have all been retired.

Watch out guys...they might order some Sukhoi Superjet soon, just to keep up the fleet variety...
At least they are not boring  
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia!
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:14 pm

Quoting thai77w (Reply 11):
TG A380s make them money, they aren't going anywhere.

You know better than to spread such lies!  
Quoting thai77w (Reply 11):
You will start to really see the beginning of their fleet look for the next 10 years:

A380/350/330
B77W/773/77E/787

I think that's a reasonably good and flexible fleet. In the long term I'd imagine more A350s or 787s to replace the 77Es, but those 77Es are still relatively young right?

No narrowbodies is interesting, didn't TG place an order for A321s a few years back? Or were they all converted to A320s and transferred to Thai Smile?
 
lawair
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:55 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 10):
Publicly traded hardly means a commercial enterprise as TG is still very much a government company.

My response was to the assertion that the carrier doesn't need to make money because it was a government prestige project.

Clearly TG is government controlled. Anyone on this site should know that. But my point is that TG has financial pressures to make money, largely because it is publicly traded. It actually has even more pressures now because they are government controlled (with the government closely watching state enterprises now).
 
SXDFC
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:16 pm

I remember one of the A350 websites on one of the production threads mentioned that TG will introduce a new livery on its first A350, anyone know if that's still going to be the case?
 
jfkgig
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:03 pm

Quoting lawair (Reply 8):
But they're also publicly traded. And the government has not subsidized the carrier in recent history, though it offered short term loans a couple years ago. The government has also been behind the recent push to make heavy cost cuts to operations.

TG is majority owned by the Thai Government, but fully controlled by the Thai Air Force.

Like MH, TG is heavily subsidized, even if the subsidies don't always take the form of cash infusions. I'm afraid that TG is stuck on the same long term steady decline as MH, and will eventually reach the same point when the losses can no longer be sustained -- but all of the Air Force guys on the Board will keep that from happening for some time into the future.
 
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HALtheAI
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:22 pm

 
jfkgig
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:04 pm

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 17):
The Thai government has already been pushing for reforms because they don't want to keep absorbing the losses.
http://loyaltylobby.com/2015/10/21/t...reatening-survival-of-the-airline/
http://atwonline.com/finance-data/th...l-assets-defer-aircraft-deliveries
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/busi...very-of-new-aircraft-30277377.html

The government is not pushing for reforms at TG -- citizens and advocacy groups are. That's pretty much true with respect to a variety of different things in Thailand. This is a very different thing.

These people can call for reforms all they want. For better or for worse, the last institution to be reformed in Thailand will be the military. With TG firmly within the scope of the military -- who are running the show at the moment and for the foreseeable future -- reforms are not very likely I'm afraid.
 
lawair
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:12 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 16):
TG is majority owned by the Thai Government, but fully controlled by the Thai Air Force

Is there a source on this that isn't a.net because it's not reflected in their filings or in their executive management.

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 16):

Like MH, TG is heavily subsidized, even if the subsidies don't always take the form of cash infusions. I'm afraid that TG is stuck on the same long term steady decline as MH, and will eventually reach the same point when the losses can no longer be sustained -- but all of the Air Force guys on the Board will keep that from happening for some time into the future

If you open up the definition of "subsidize" to things that don't look like cash infusions, you open up the can of worms being debated between the US3 and the ME3. Delta was subsidized with fuel tax exemptions. BA has profit guarantees on its BWI route. The US government bought nonvoting shares in America West. Chapter 11? In that case, lots of airlines are subsidized, TG not noticeably more than any other.
 
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HALtheAI
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:57 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 18):
The government is not pushing for reforms at TG -- citizens and advocacy groups are. That's pretty much true with respect to a variety of different things in Thailand. This is a very different thing.

The State Enterprise Policy Commission is a Thai government agency. If it was just ordinary citizens, TG would ignore them.
 
Thai77w
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:43 am

People I know at TG know nothing of a new livery on the 350.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
kiwiandrew

RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:49 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 15):
hat TG will introduce a new livery on its first A350, anyone know if that's still going to be the case?

I hope so... their current livery looks like a flying box of chocolates 
 
wzafar
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:05 am

What will the J seat look like? Any pictures or renders of interior? They really need to make sure all products have at least the same J cabin. It is all over the place and inconsistent!
 
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hilram
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:54 am

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 13):
I think that's a reasonably good and flexible fleet. In the long term I'd imagine more A350s or 787s to replace the 77Es, but those 77Es are still relatively young right?

Their 777-200ER´s are relatively young, but they have six 777-200 "vanilla" that they took between 1996-1998. I suspect these will be the first to go.
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
Thai77w
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:44 am

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 13):

I think that's a reasonably good and flexible fleet. In the long term I'd imagine more A350s or 787s to replace the 77Es, but those 77Es are still relatively young right?

Yes the 77E were only delivered in the mid 00s. There is 12 A350 on order and there's 6 772 delivered in the
Mid 90s that is what *some* A350 will be replacing.


They do have 2 789 on order too, that one I can't work out.


Someone joked about the SSJ100... The RTAF just got a couple delivered... Never say never! They are going to need a narrowbody aircraft If they want to keep destinations such as USM mainline.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
bcworld
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:49 pm

Quoting wzafar (Reply 23):
They really need to make sure all products have at least the same J cabin.

TG is hardly unusual in this respect. SQ has multiple J products (even on the same city pair), EK has multiple J products, EY has multiple J products...I'm not sure there are many who don't (BA & CX strike me as a couple where long haul J products are pretty set?)...it's hardly unique to TG.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:11 am

Quoting lawair (Reply 14):
Clearly TG is government controlled. Anyone on this site should know that. But my point is that TG has financial pressures to make money, largely because it is publicly traded. It actually has even more pressures now because they are government controlled (with the government closely watching state enterprises now).

Yeah I think that's wihful thinking. AS long as the majority owners are government (or, really, military) there wobn't be any push anytime soon for fundamental reform.

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 18):
These people can call for reforms all they want. For better or for worse, the last institution to be reformed in Thailand will be the military. With TG firmly within the scope of the military -- who are running the show at the moment and for the foreseeable future -- reforms are not very likely I'm afraid.

Agreed. TG's profitability rises and falls based on tourism, which appears directly correlated with political instability in the country. The military junta currently in charge likely figure the airline can sustainath elosses during the recent upheaval in anticipation of profits when the environment has stabilised... under their control, of course.
 
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haynflyer
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:18 am

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 16):
TG is majority owned by the Thai Government, but fully controlled by the Thai Air Force


Quoting lawair (Reply 19):

Is there a source on this that isn't a.net because it's not reflected in their filings or in their executive management

From Reuters:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FP0T120140720

"The junta led by General Prayuth Chan-ocha has told the chief of the Royal Thai Air Force to fix the airline. Air Chief Marshall Prajin Juntong, who also oversees economic matters for the military government, said on Friday a detailed restructuring plan aimed at returning the carrier to profit will be considered by the board at a meeting on July 24.

The success or failure of Prajin, who has little practical experience in running a business, will have wider implications for the government. The junta needs to assure foreign investors of its ability to manage the economy and that it is not out to merely weed out allies of previous prime ministers.

"You are right in noting that Prajin is a military man with little experience in running a company," Monthon Satchukorn, a spokesman for the Thai Air Force and a Prajin aide, told Reuters in an interview."

[Edited 2016-02-03 17:19:39]
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
 
lutfi
Posts: 888
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:49 am

http://thai.listedcompany.com/management.html

5 out of 9 managers have air force titles

http://thai.listedcompany.com/directors.html

4 Directors are ACM (Air Chief Marshall) and 1 is an army general.

So, yeah, air force controlled
 
chrisp390
Posts: 718
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:37 pm

RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:12 am

Quoting thai77w (Reply 25):

Its the air force's toy, maybe they just want to collect all the fleet types out there
 
lawair
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:59 pm

RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:27 am

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 28):

From Reuters:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...40720

As far as I know this is completely out-of-date. The article is written immediately following the coup and before the military-installed government was set up. Prajin is not running the airline currently. TG has a separate chairman and CEO that have been appointed since.

Quoting lutfi (Reply 29):
http://thai.listedcompany.com/management.html

5 out of 9 managers have air force titles

http://thai.listedcompany.com/directors.html

4 Directors are ACM (Air Chief Marshall) and 1 is an army general.

So, yeah, air force controlled

I may have been splitting hairs here, but my response was to jfkgig claiming that TG was "fully controlled" by the RTAF, which it is not. Your links point that out: neither the chairman or the CEO are affiliated with the air force. A majority of the board are not affiliated with the air force. I don't think that = "fully controlled" (though I suppose you could disagree?)
 
Carfield
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RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:49 am

I am still curious on the configuration of Thai's A350...
For the dreamliners, I am disappointed that J remains six abreast classic type lie flat seats instead of suites...

I hope it is going to go towards suites type of seats, but you really never know!

28 might even mean four rows of seven abreast...
Or seven rows of four abreast
Or four full rows of six abreast with two extra pairs of seats

Carfield
 
smi0006
Posts: 2529
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:08 am

Curious choice of destination, does MEL really need the abilities of the A350? Or is this a capacity match? And product improvement.

As and armchair CEO- TG would be a fun airline to restructure and streamline. Whilst the connecting traffic is not there as it once was, I still feel the airline has a lot of untapped potential for a regional hub, with some decent tourism traffic (of various yields).
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:11 am

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 28):
TG is majority owned by the Thai Government, but fully controlled by the Thai Air Force

So does this mean that ALL TG pilots come from the Thai Air Force as well?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4100
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:07 am

Quoting Carfield (Reply 32):
For the dreamliners, I am disappointed that J remains six abreast classic type lie flat seats instead of suites...
Quoting smi0006 (Reply 33):
Curious choice of destination, does MEL really need the abilities of the A350?
Quoting Carfield (Reply 32):
I am still curious on the configuration of Thai's A350...

One has to wonder indeed what is the rationale behind all of these fleet decisions. The dreamliners, in a very regional looking 24/240 configuration with a rather ordinary 2-2-2 premium layout go to destinations like SIN, KUL, DPS, PER, BNE, MAA and DEL and until recently also to NGO and before that other points in Japan. Not a single destination in there that could not be served with TG's current A333 configuration.

Enter the A359 with a rather dense sounding 32/289 layout and MEL as its first destination, and it sounds like more of the same - perfectly executable with the A333.

With an apparent lack of specified missions for the 788/359, wouldn't TG have been better off moving towards a widebody fleet composition of 388/77W/333 by phasing out the A300/A345/A346 fleets, as has been done and gradually doing the same with the B772/B773/B744 and B77E fleets?
 
smi0006
Posts: 2529
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

RE: TG Outlines Initial A350 Operations

Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:37 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 35):
With an apparent lack of specified missions for the 788/359, wouldn't TG have been better off moving towards a widebody fleet composition of 388/77W/333 by phasing out the A300/A345/A346 fleets, as has been done and gradually doing the same with the B772/B773/B744 an

Makes sense to me, operate the A330s in two comfigs, regional and long haul. And have Thaismile support regional flying with 321 and 320s.

Maybe your right- 788 for regional 350- long haul... But doesn't seem to match routes or do much for the cost basis.

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