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moo
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:14 pm

Quoting gzm (Reply 47):
I think the window gave out, that's all. When TW 840 happened, that was the pilot's first thought.

What window fatigue failure causes charring on the inside?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting SyeaphanR (Reply 42):
The last line but one is interesting....

A colleague of mine who was on the plane said...   

We need to know if this person is an aviation or explosives expert. If not...
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B777LRF
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:16 pm

Skin bent outwards, scorching marks inside and outside. Traces of blood on the outside. On a dodgy airline flying from a highly volatile airport, with high level of corruption and near total absence of security.

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ...

Upside is that the idiot who blew himself off got it wrong. Which is a rather common trait for terrorists; they're usually dumbfracks who make a mockery of their efforts far more often than they succeed. E.g. shoe bomber, underwear bomber and untold thousands of IDE builders blowing themselves to smithereens.
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MD88CLE
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:15 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 52):
Upside is that the idiot who blew himself off got it wrong. Which is a rather common trait for terrorists; they're usually dumbfracks who make a mockery of their efforts far more often than they succeed.

If this was indeed what it looks like, then the person involved may have set it off at such a low altitude (as some other attempts have in the past) where the pressure differential would be lower due to a desire for the debris to fall on populated areas, not due to lack of planning.

But at any rate, the problem is that just as a stopped clock is correct twice a day, stupid can still be dangerous if only by chance.
 
Armodeen
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:22 pm

I'll be shocked if this is anything but a bomb...Windows giving out don't cause fires, and one of the injured persons is described as 'badly burnt'
 
DSS787
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:26 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 17):
Outward blown and shredded metal, scorch marks, coming from the passenger compartment, on an airplane taking-off from Somalia...

I know where my money is.

um yea... mine too. Somalia should be the key word, red flag, etc.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:31 pm

Quoting marosbts (Reply 23):
The scary thing is, that if they now managed to bypass the security twice

What "the" security? The only thing in common thus far is that this happened on the same continent. Not even the same countries are in question here.



Quoting D L X (Reply 37):
Is it me, or do people on board not look particularly phased?

...nor "fazed."  

But considering this part of the world, maybe they're a bit hardened. Who knows.



Quoting gzm (Reply 47):
I think the window gave out, that's all.

"That's all"...??
That's scary has hell!

But it doesn't explain the alleged burnt body.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
hamster
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:01 pm

Is there anything mechanical that would cause such damage on failure in the wall of the plane? Compression hose in the wall of he plane that blew? Gotta be an explosive device. Those Airbuses really are tough.
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:11 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 49):
Passenger count?

72 per this preliminary summary.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20160202-0
 
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csturdiv
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:35 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 56):
But it doesn't explain the alleged burnt body.

Spontaneous human combustion   
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Toni_
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:47 pm

A couple of hours have passed and yet not much information has come out. I find that in itself a bit strange. You'd expect the authorities, airline and/or media to put a halt to all speculation and confirm whether or not someone flew out of the aircraft.

I know it's Somalia, but it should be that simple no? "We boarded with 72 souls, and we landed with 72. Investigation still on-going." Or: "We departed with 72 passengers, and we landed with... let's see... 69... 70... 71... hmmm... that's odd."

All we got are conflicting stories. We have passengers saying that a loud explosion was heared. We have the story of a burnt body falling out of the plane. And then we have someone who had a colleague on board that is claiming that the fuselage failed at 10k feet without explosion.

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 59):

Spontaneous human combustion

Could be anything at this point.   
I don't trust them vultures in Africa. After the Air Nambia "birdstrike" I'm getting a bit suspicious. They're radicalizing mannnn, I'm tellin' ya!   
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 32):

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 30):
I respectfully disagree. Anyway a bomb on a civilian airliner anywhere is big news.

It is an unknown airline based in and flying to a country nobody has heard of (Djibouti) from a place that most people think of as dangerous and war torn (Somalia) with no confirmed deaths.

People get scared of news that they feel touches them personally - terrorism in a city they have visited or plan to visit, for example. Why don't the Western media do more than an extremely cursory, almost perfunctory report of Boko Haram bombings in Nigeria and Cameroon? Because most Western audiences are apathetic (not being able to place these countries on a map, knowing the difference between them, or planning to ever go there).
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:35 am

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 60):
We have the story of a burnt body falling out of the plane.

This one comes up again and again in replies above. Has there been any confirmation of a body being found? Who are the "locals" that reported it and were they at the airport and saw the body when the plane was on the ground or were they people who saw a body fall out of the plane when it was airborne?
There are a lot of missing pieces here - from the photo of the outside, it seems clear there was combustion of some sort by the burn marks - a bomb seems the most likely culprit IMO but let's wait and see
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:15 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 62):
were they people who saw a body fall out of the plane when it was airborne?

Or whether it might even have been the blackwindow seat and its cushions that were seen falling
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:18 am

There's definately soot .. and some red substance on the outside of the fuselage. I presume that's blood. Also the window in front of the hole is gone. But that could have gotten loose after the buckling of the fuselage from the explosion.

I found the video from inside the plane again on youtube.. the passengers do seem very calm. And it also seems like people have been moved from the rows near where the hole is, which makes sense.

Sharp wind noise in the video, so turn sound down a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJPawyUSvmo
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:22 am

Looking at the pics "something" certainly came out of that hole and left a big red smear down the side of the fuselage. There doesn't appear to be anything red in the interior of the aircraft. I do not believe (I could be wrong) that there are any hydraulic lines in that area so what are the potential possibilities?
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:36 am

 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:54 am

Quoting gzm (Reply 47):

I think the window gave out, that's all.

I do not think it was window that blew out as about forty years ago a National Airlines had a DC-10 flying at cruising altitude and one of the first stage fan blades on the wing engine separated and fly through a passenger window. There was a passenger sitting next to the window and was sucked out of the missing window opening. There was not this kind of damage to the aircraft. Just a missing window and an unfortunate missing passenger along with some other damage to the aircraft including the engine which was a GE CF6. The aircraft landed safely.
Windows blowing out at 10,000 just do not cause that kind of damage to the aircraft as it was reported that this happened at about 10,000 feet which is about the altitude the aircraft just begins to pressurize. This may have caused the oxgen masks to drop or the pilot may have dropped them.   

[Edited 2016-02-02 17:56:00]
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tortugamon
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:55 am

Now being picked up by NYPost and other news outlets.

tortugamon
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:33 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 61):
Why don't the Western media do more than an extremely cursory, almost perfunctory report of Boko Haram bombings in Nigeria and Cameroon? Because most Western audiences are apathetic (not being able to place these countries on a map, knowing the difference between them, or planning to ever go there).

You're assuming that foreigners are the same as North Americans.

Sure, Americans and Canadians are ignorant about Africa.

But all European males have had soccer players from Nigeria and Cameroon play for their hometown club. They are less foreign to us than someone from Tulsa or Edmonton.

Even in this case, Djibouti sounds really foreign - and exports no soccer players, which is why to us it is much more foreign than Cameroon or Nigeria.

But Djibouti is in reality nothing more than a French puppet state, of less than a million people, which is a strategic location that hosts France's largest overseas military base.

And also hosts the only permanent US military base in Africa.

I would argue that very sensibly the Americans and French ensure that Djibouti is effectively a huge base for them which is almost "off the map". It has been much more easy to secure - until now - than if they had had a base for example at Mombasa in Kenya, where it would have been much harder to keep Al Shabab terrorists away.

But that is why this attack is much more significant than anyone seems to be publicising. This aircraft was going to Djibouti International Airport - but Djibouti International Airport is also Camp Lemonnier of the US Africa Command's Combined Joint Task Force - Horn of Africa.

So this is a big deal. A very, very big deal.
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:37 am

The red smear behind the hole has a very similar color to hydraulic fluid. Does anybody familiar with A321 engineering know if hydraulic lines run through this area? It seems a bit high on the fuselage to me for hydraulic lines, but I'm not an aviation engineer.
 
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Horstroad
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:43 am

Quoting flyzapper (Reply 70):
The red smear behind the hole has a very similar color to hydraulic fluid.

hydraulic fluid is usually blue or purple. and even if this brand was red it fould be that visible. additionally hydraulic fluid gets brown when in use due to heat. the hotter it gets, the darker it is. especially in older aircraft you see nothing of the original color unless the system has recently been flushed. when it leaks it becomes a bright yellow.

my best guess is that the red stain are remainders of the person sitting in the window seat, as someone said before in this thread. the seat is bretty much gone, only the tray table is visible in the picture... i guess whoever sat there might have been sucked out as some eye witness reports say

[Edited 2016-02-02 18:46:48]
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:53 am

Looks like the 'dried plumb' web site has an interesting ongoing thread about this incident.

Some interesting rumours about TK cancelling flights into HCMM today, allegedly due to insider knowledge that there might be trouble there... Juicy stuff! Also allegation that the person ejected was the bomber!

And a link to Mythbusters ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1_1l7M8FA ) showing that 'Buster' would be heading towards the window if not securely strapped in.

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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:55 am

That would be a lot of blood, unless the passenger had been shot in the head while he flew out of the airplane, like in a Tarantino movie. I am betting on some chemical. Otherwise there would be blood visible on the inside picture too, no?
 
LandSweetLand
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:34 am

There's a closer view of what they claim is the hole on http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...y/570f2f53cf11b2f55aee48c3ce128b4e
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:41 am

This may have been posted but there is video from inside of the aircraft...

http://abc7ny.com/news/video-explosi...rgency-landing-in-somalia/1184242/

...whatever the cause they were extraordinarily lucky.
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:44 am

Is that blood on that ragged metal edge ?
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HELyes
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:38 am

According to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland one of the injured passengers is a Finnish citizen and hospitalized in Somalia.

Edit: The Finnish male passenger is badly burned, also an Italian male passenger was injured, says Finnish radio news.

[Edited 2016-02-03 01:06:21]
 
Armodeen
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:42 am

Ragged soot covered edges at cabin floor level... this one is a bomb, come on guys.
 
CO953
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:17 am

Such the tragic conundrum is mankind ... that from the samesuch species issueth both the wondrous genius to craft such an amazing flying machine and, alas, the cursed deviltry to blow a hole in it.

  

[Edited 2016-02-03 01:19:47]
 
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caoimhin
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:04 am

Quoting horstroad (Reply 71):
hydraulic fluid is usually blue or purple.

This is correct. See pictures of Skydrol. However, there still are lubricants used in aircraft that have a crimson colour. Still, looks like blood in this most recent photo.
 
BravoOne
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:23 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 67):
Windows blowing out at 10,000 just do not cause that kind of damage to the aircraft as it was reported that this happened at about 10,000 feet which is about the altitude the aircraft just begins to pressurize. This may have

The aircraft starts to pressurize at lift off which I'm sure you know  I recall the National Airlines incident but find it hard to believe that a body would fit through a DC10 window without some additional space being created? Other reports have the A320 slightly above 14,000 which would account for the O2 masks dropping assuming that they were not manually deployed by the pilot.
 
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Horstroad
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:55 am

Quoting caoimhin (Reply 80):
However, there still are lubricants used in aircraft that have a crimson colour.

Grease 28 is red... really blood red. But there is no reason grease should be in this location. Besides that I don't think Airbus uses Grease 28.

Quoting AVHerald:
On Feb 3rd 2016 Somalia's Air Accident Investigation Authority (SAAIA) told The Aviation Herald, that one person was unaccounted for and missing after the aircraft landed. The body of the missing person was subsequently found near Balad Town, about 30km north of Mogadishu. The body was taken to Mogadishu in the night of Feb 2nd/3rd.


[Edited 2016-02-03 04:23:02]
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:23 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 81):
Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 67):
Windows blowing out at 10,000 just do not cause that kind of damage to the aircraft as it was reported that this happened at about 10,000 feet which is about the altitude the aircraft just begins to pressurize. This may have

The aircraft starts to pressurize at lift off which I'm sure you know

Yes but the goal is pressure equal to 8000 feet and the a/c was 10,000-12,000 at the time of the event so the pressure difference was not very large compared to what it is at cruise levels.
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:23 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 81):
I recall the National Airlines incident but find it hard to believe that a body would fit through a DC10 window without some additional space being created?

Believe it. He went right through the window opening. I have a photo somewhere. Hopefully I can find it. I wont comment on what going through that little hole did to the body. The structure around the window is significantly stronger than a human. As I recall he wasn't a small guy either.
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:39 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 84):
Believe it. He went right through the window opening. I have a photo somewhere.

Yes and watch the video in #72. It's really just a question of how big the pressure differential was, and whether or not the person was strapped in well or not. Airline seat belts aren't that great -- that's why pilots get 3 point or 4 point belts!
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:47 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 85):
Airline seat belts aren't that great -- that's why pilots get 3 point or 4 point belts!

I just googled this accident. Seems that the initially the seat belt retained him half inside the fuselage / half outside the fuselage:

Quote:
One passenger, G.F. Gardner of Beaumont, Texas, was partially sucked into an opening left when a cabin window failed, after it too was struck by engine fragments. He was temporarily retained in that position by his seatbelt. "Efforts to pull the passenger back into the airplane by another passenger were unsuccessful, and the occupant of seat 17H was forced entirely through the cabin window."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_27

[Edited 2016-02-03 05:48:06]
 
jcwr56
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:58 pm

Our local paper is reporting it as a blast but the article quotes a pilot stating it was a bomb.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...lane-explosion-20160203-story.html
 
Flaps
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:56 pm

It appears that authorities are confirming a passenger was indeed sucked out and that it appears to have been as suspected to have been a bomb.

Source -
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/02...ergency-landing.html?intcmp=hplnws
 
F9Animal
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:13 am

CNN reported that explosive residue was found, and it was likely a bomb. The aircraft was apparently delayed for over 30 minutes. Had the plane been on time, and the device was on a timer, the plane would have likely been lost. The explosion apparently happened at about 12,000 feet.

At this point, I think the passengers and crew are very very lucky! I can't imagine the horror of watching someone get suck out, and seeing the whole thing unfold!  
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Flaps
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:25 am

The Fox article I referenced above indicated that the ejected passenger was a 55 year old male. Not the typical terrorist profile. I wonder if the bomb was planted or if in fact the ejected passenger was the bomber.
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:49 pm

I was wondering if there is any update on this?
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LatAmFlyer
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:48 pm

CNN Intl reporting military-grade TNT blew hole in aircraft after takeoff. Sorry no link yet.

21:50Z
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:10 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 89):
CNN reported that explosive residue was found, and it was likely a bomb. The aircraft was apparently delayed for over 30 minutes. Had the plane been on time, and the device was on a timer, the plane would have likely been lost. The explosion apparently happened at about 12,000 feet.

Which then begs to wonder if the person who got sucked out was the bomber.... or just someone who had the extreme misfortune of sitting over it (assuming it were under a seat or in a cushion, as is now suspected).
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:40 pm

Has there been a confirmed souls on board take off and landing?
Is the burnt body discovered on the ground confirmed as a passenger?
Would an overwing postion be a good place to set a bomb, cause more damage?
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o0OOO0oChris
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:49 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-for-attack-on-Somali-airline.html
Quote:
Investigators probing Wednesday's blast on the flight from Mogadishu believe it was the work of a suicide bomber who posed as a disabled passenger to dodge rigorous security checks.

Also on daily mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-plane-sucked-passenger-death.html

[Edited 2016-02-04 12:56:57]
 
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 94):
Which then begs to wonder if the person who got sucked out was the bomber....

That's one sure-fire way to meet Allah rapidly...
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:56 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 97):
That's one sure-fire way to meet Allah rapidly...

I suppose he got no virgins though as he was too dumb to kill anyone else than himself with the bomb, assuming it indeed was a suicide bombing and not something planted under a seat for example.
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zeke
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:04 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 83):

Yes but the goal is pressure equal to 8000 feet and the a/c was 10,000-12,000

The cabin rate of climb would only have been around 250 ft/min, meaning at 10,000 ft, their cabin altitude would be around 1500 ft. That is a cabin diff of around 3.8 psi.

ac_alt=convlength([10000 1500],'ft','m')
[T, a, P, rho] = atmosisa(ac_alt)
psi=convpres(P,'Pa','psi')
cabin_diff=psi(2)-psi(1)
cabin_diff = 3.8102
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RE: Daallo Airlines A321 Lands With Hole In Fuselage

Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:32 am

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 95):
Has there been a confirmed souls on board take off and landing?
Is the burnt body discovered on the ground confirmed as a passenger?

So far as I have seen, no.

That is disturbing, since most Western airlines have a very short government-mandated period of time -- usually 1-2 hours from the time of an aircraft loss -- to report the verified manifest of the flight. The verified manifest is the list of "souls on board", which may differ from those who had reservations for the flight but did not board. It is compiled from the list of boarding passes taken or swiped at the gate, and it will show seat assignments. In this way, it should be known who was or was not lost.

In this case, if someone was blown out of the fuselage rupture, the number of survivors landing would be one less than the original total upon boarding, and the identity of the lost person would be known from their seat assignment.

It it not clear whether or not Daallo follows these procedures.

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