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rajincajun01
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G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:45 pm

It's amazing that people continue to fly this airline. That plane should have been pulled out of operations after the second time.

http://flyguysblog.com/2016/02/02/al...ergency-landings-within-six-weeks/
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MD95sOverATL
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:05 pm

What the hell is going on over at G4? Every so often I'll catch a screaming deal from them on somewhere I want to go, but their persistent MX issues make me back out.
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roseflyer
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:20 pm

The same plane had 4 emergency landings due to smoke in the cabin. I wonder what their FAA Principle Maintenance Inspector is doing about this. Emergency landings get a lot of scrutiny. MEL extensions and chronic repeat items are also supposed to get scrutiny.
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readytotaxi
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:31 pm

http://flyguysblog.com/2016/02/02/al...ergency-landings-within-six-weeks/

"Allegiant’s chief operating officer Steve Harfst abruptly resigned last month after being appointed to the position only one year prior. Many analysts suggest the resignation was forced and is a result of highly publicized incidents involving Allegiant aircraft."

Well it appears that someone "fell/was pushed on to their sword."
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rajincajun01
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:33 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 2):
chronic repeat items are also supposed to get scrutiny.

Key words are "supposed to". The continued pilot contract issues over plane conditions, the firing of a pilot for evacuating, and the clusters of emergency landings every few months suggest this is not happening.
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tjwgrr
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:41 pm

This guy is sounding more and more credible:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...t-over-obscene-maintenance/2260591

Is there any history of fines imposed against G4 by the FAA?
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rajincajun01
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:44 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 5):
his guy is sounding more and more credible:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...t-over-obscene-maintenance/2260591

Is there any history of fines imposed against G4 by the FAA?

I don't believe many are discrediting what he has said. It just appears to be a lack of awareness by the public or the desire for cheap airfare.

FAA routinely says they are investigating but I have not heard of any fines, including from their Fargo incident with low fuel.
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nws2002
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:36 pm

No fines from the FAA with regards to maintenance or flight operations. The only one I remember had to do with drug testing. There have also been a few from DOT surrounding advertising issues.

That one particular aircraft, N403NV, having multiple emergency landings within a 4 week period is crazy. Especially for the same issue. I really hope that tripped something in their mx department's CASS program. This certainly falls into repetitive non-routine maintenance.
 
roseflyer
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:43 pm

Quoting rajincajun01 (Reply 4):
Quoting roseflyer (Reply 2):
chronic repeat items are also supposed to get scrutiny.

Key words are "supposed to". The continued pilot contract issues over plane conditions, the firing of a pilot for evacuating, and the clusters of emergency landings every few months suggest this is not happening.

Airlines are supposed to have a process where they watch for repetitive defects. That report is supposed to be reviewed by their technical support staff in maintenance control and get reported to the FAA. The PMI is supposed to be watching for things like this to make sure the airline is following its own processes.
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alasizon
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 7):
That one particular aircraft, N403NV, having multiple emergency landings within a 4 week period is crazy. Especially for the same issue. I really hope that tripped something in their mx department's CASS program. This certainly falls into repetitive non-routine maintenance.

I'm not sure this is isolated to G4 though. I've had a few aircraft that have had repeat issues (including one with smoke in the cabin) that have returned many times over. I had a plane do three air returns in one day for the same depressurization issue.
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rajincajun01
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:56 pm

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 9):

I don't think that it's just isolated to G4, but the frequency of their issues in proportion to the number of flights they operate is the problem. Three times in one day for one issue is a bit extreme. I would be one angry passenger.
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JohnGalt
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:58 pm

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 7):

No fines from the FAA with regards to maintenance or flight operations.


Fines from the FAA can take a while to come to light (depending on the severity and how advantageous they are to the FAA). I saw a press release last month for a fine involving an event with FedEx and a 727 (www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19896).

FedEx last operated the Boeing 727 in June 2013 (Ref: http://about.van.fedex.com/newsroom/...as-fedex-express-retires-last-b727)

So we are looking at maybe another two to three years before we see anything.
 
rajincajun01
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:32 am

Quoting JohnGalt (Reply 11):
So we are looking at maybe another two to three years before we see anything.

That may too late to take action.
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F9Animal
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

This is no laughing matter. I don't understand why G4 hasn't taken absolute extreme measures to fix the problems, and do so by making a public announcement. G4 certainly has the cash to invest for a major maintenance overhaul program. It is very clear that maintenance is a serious problem here. The article about the new mechanic making headlines raises some red flags. The validity of his claims sure seem relevant.

What concerns me most is, the CEO has a poor track record for running a safe airline. I also don't find G4 flaunting it's "excellent" safety record. With the amount of incidents, I am surprised the FAA hasn't come down hard on the airline. I just hope that all of this isn't a precursor of a potentially fatal accident. Gallagher needs to take some serious action, and do it quick. G4 stands to lose business with all of this bad press. It also could financially hurt G4.

If anything, kudos to the flight crews at G4. Sadly, they are pretty experienced in aircraft emergencies and evacuations. I am thankful they have successfully gotten all of these emergencies safely on the ground. I personally want to see G4 succeed, and I hope the best for them. I personally won't fly on them until the execs can prove a turnaround of these problems.
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rajincajun01
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:37 am

G4 has been great for smaller airports who get looked over from the more traditional carriers. That being said, it's hard to believe that their issues aren't more widely known by the general passenger. They have been well documented in newspapers and online for safety concerns and minimal customer service.
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access-air
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:31 pm

Perhaps we havent learned our lessons from Valujet....

I know that I as a travel agent I am kind of backed into a corner by clients wanting to book Allegiant out of either Rockford, Moline or Peoria. They hate Chicago. Not sure what I should do.
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
AABB777
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:56 pm

The operational issues at G4 are not isolated to only G4. Every day airlines across the U.S. have mechanical problems, inflight engine shutdowns, smoke in the cabin, turn-backs, operational delays, etc., etc. A microscope has been put on G4 because their pilots are in the middle of contract negotiations and are unfortunately using a scorched-earth strategy to get what they want from the company and are ensuring media outlets know about every 'safety' and operational issue at G4. Meanwhile, what we are not hearing, from what I'm told, is that G4 participates in all FAA voluntary reporting programs and meets or exceeds all FAA and aircraft manufacturer-mandated standards in regards to safety.
 
rajincajun01
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:07 pm

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 16):
The operational issues at G4 are not isolated to only G4. Every day airlines across the U.S. have mechanical problems, inflight engine shutdowns, smoke in the cabin, turn-backs, operational delays, etc., etc. A microscope has been put on G4 because their pilots are in the middle of contract negotiations and are unfortunately using a scorched-earth strategy to get what they want from the company and are ensuring media outlets know about every 'safety' and operational issue at G4. Meanwhile, what we are not hearing, from what I'm told, is that G4 participates in all FAA voluntary reporting programs and meets or exceeds all FAA and aircraft manufacturer-mandated standards in regards to safety.

These mechanical issues were already being discussed prior to the pilots attempt to unionize. Yes, the pilots have amplified it but everyone's tone would be different if they stayed quite and then these events continued to happen. They're doing their duty to inform the public.
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b747400erf
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:21 pm

It's high utilization of an ageing fleet. How much longer do they plan to fly the MD's?

[Edited 2016-02-03 13:25:07]
 
nws2002
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:42 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 18):

It's high utilization of an ageing fleet. How much longer do they plan to fly the MD's?

2020 at least. They are adding A320s but that is for growth not fleet renewal. They have shifted more flying to the A320 fleet and decreased the utilization of the MD-80s.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 18):
It's high utilization of an ageing fleet. How much longer do they plan to fly the MD's?

Allegiant currently expects to be all Airbus around 2020.

The MD utilization last year was about 5 hours vs about 9.6 hours for their Airbus fleet.
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F9Animal
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:12 pm

Quoting access-air (Reply 15):
Perhaps we havent learned our lessons from Valujet....

I know that I as a travel agent I am kind of backed into a corner by clients wanting to book Allegiant out of either Rockford, Moline or Peoria. They hate Chicago. Not sure what I should do.

I am sure you know.... Maurice Gallagher at Allegiant..... Was a founder and CEO of Valujet? I find it amazing that history seems to be following him. I would be curious to know if he is running a similar scene Valujet had before 592?

Valujet was infamous for not performing Quality Assurance on its maintenance program. It sounds nearly identical with Allegiant. Personally, if I was a travel agent.... I would certainly consider G4's on time performance in the markets, and even keep safety in the back of the mind. I know I will not put my family on this airline. So, I wouldn't put my customers on it either. Not until I was 110% comfortable with a complete restructure of their maintenance practices.

My father in law booked a G4 flight several years ago from SEA to Laughlin for a casino junk deal. He called me from the airport to say his flight was delayed. After several hours, he called me again, angry that nobody was telling the passengers what was happening. I made a few calls, and learned the plane heading to Seattle made an emergency landing due to smoke in the cabin. I also learned it had something to do with the AC system.

I called my father in law, and told him. He spread the word to other passengers. Needless to say, after I told him about Maurice Gallagher and Valujet.... He left the airport and came home. G4 eventually sent a replacement plane, and the delay was well over 12 hours. He never stepped foot on the plane, and cancelled. He was even more shocked when I showed him all of the past situations.

Look!!! I want G4 to succeed. I really do. I stand behind the pilots and all crews at G4. I have a few friends who work there. However, like I said, I won't fly them until fixes are made. Allegiant is lucky it hasn't had a fatal yet. The reason? The flight cres! Those men and women are excellent pilots l, and the flight attendants are also excellent. G4 owes them more than a raise. G4 needs to provide them with mechanically sound aircraft!

I said the same thing about Alaska when they outsourced their ramp in Seattle, and the numerous ground strikes on aircraft. Alaska made an incredible turn around, and took major steps to improve safety on the ramp. I have officially returned to flying Alaska again, and I am glad. Alaska has always been one of my favorite airlines, and I like putting my hard earned dollars to fly Alaska. I also can't stop craving their fruit and cheese platters.

[Edited 2016-02-03 15:33:39]
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rajincajun01
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:59 pm

Maybe Gallagher should take some of their money from sponsoring his son in NASCAR (who does quite poorly) and reinvest it in creating better MX practices at his airline. Just a thought.
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tjwgrr
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RE: G4 Plane Makes 4 Emergency Landings In 6 Wks

Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:08 pm

Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.

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