So how long before loads pick up on the new B6 flights or how long until the flights are axed?

Basically, what I am asking, how long of a leash does this flight have?

Loads for a NY to FL flight for January are beyond bad

Not that I'm doubting, but any figures to share or source?

Where did you hear that? I heard that the loads werent so bad.

Never understood why anyone would want to come here outside of for NASCAR events. The city is a dump

let me guess ... he's assigned to fly JFK-DAB this morning .... on a Tuesday (read : slow) in early Feb (read : slow) that just happens to have lighter loads .... and use it to extrapolate all the way to the viability of the route.

Quoting jnev3289 (Reply 3): Never understood why anyone would want to come here outside of for NASCAR events. The city is a dump

Amen to that, did 5 years of school there. Was never a fan of that town, dump sums it up nicely.

Quoting chepos (Reply 5): Quoting jnev3289 (Reply 3): Never understood why anyone would want to come here outside of for NASCAR events. The city is a dump Amen to that, did 5 years of school there. Was never a fan of that town, dump sums it up nicely.

I did the same in the eighties. Apparently it hasn't improved much. Not a bad place to go to school at all and not a terrible place to live (at least back then). I had a great time there when I was a student but I certainly wouldn't vacation there. Other than February through early to mid April there really isn't anything happening that would warrant a visit.

Quoting chepos (Reply 5): Amen to that, did 5 years of school there. Was never a fan of that town, dump sums it up nicely.

Embry Riddle? Guess there are lots here

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7): Embry Riddle? Guess there are lots here

+1 (Prescott)

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):

Yeah I just started my second semester at ERAU and I'm already looking forward to moving back home. The school is great, the area not so much.

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter): So how long before loads pick up on the new B6 flights or how long until the flights are axed? Basically, what I am asking, how long of a leash does this flight have? Loads for a NY to FL flight for January are beyond bad

The NYC market is the largest O&D out of DAB. If any airline can make NYC-DAB work it will be B6 or UA. There is no way that UA is going back to DAB so it is up to B6.

DAB is a seasonal market meaning the market is around the race season, spring break, and summer vacations.

Did a sampling of a few different days and the loads are looking good for a new route.

Quoting jnev3289 (Reply 3): Never understood why anyone would want to come here outside of for NASCAR events. The city is a dump

Not a far assessment of the city. Every city has their dumps and DAB is no different. Over the years there has been a lot of work to fix up the town and bring in more tourism.

Yes, ERAU graduate (class of 06). Only been back once since I graduated and it was a work trip.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 4): let me guess ... he's assigned to fly JFK-DAB this morning .... on a Tuesday (read : slow) in early Feb (read : slow) that just happens to have lighter loads .... and use it to extrapolate all the way to the viability of the route.

Nope.

Any airline person could sign in and see the loads. For instance, DL has two flights leaving JFK to ATL tonight. Both have lots of seats available. LGA to ATL is a little tighter but still looks light.

Aren't you an airline person? Can't you see loads? Your posts sure make it seem as if you are very certain of yourself.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12): Any airline person could sign in and see the loads. For instance, DL has two flights leaving JFK to ATL tonight. Both have lots of seats available. LGA to ATL is a little tighter but still looks light. Aren't you an airline person? Can't you see loads? Your posts sure make it seem as if you are very certain of yourself.

If you are so certain of actual loads then why even bother to ask the forum ? If you're basing it on tiny sample anecdotes then it's as useful as a street person reading Y5 B5 M3 type of inventory numbers or reading seat maps - i.e. meaningless.

So the flight has existed for less then a month and you're already wondering when they are going to dump it   ? As has been said above DAB isn't typical Florida. January loads aren't expected to be that great. The only reason they started it when they did was so they would be ready for Speedweeks. After that there may be a couple more slow weeks but then Spring Break and their real high season-summer-should be fine.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12): Aren't you an airline person? Can't you see loads? Your posts sure make it seem as if you are very certain of yourself.

I'm an airline person. I can only see my airline's loads. Every other airline's availability is depicted by some stupid smileys that have no connection to reality whatsoever.

B6 needs to restart CMH-JFK. I'd definitely consider them for the 3-5 trips to DAB a year I take.

And Daytona's got its nice spots. Just need to find them. Every city has its dumpy areas.

Quoting jfklganyc (Thread starter): Loads for a NY to FL flight for January are beyond bad

Load factors everywhere are terrible right now. It is the slowest time of the year for travel. Tuesday loads in February are about the lowest in the entire year

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 17): Load factors everywhere are terrible right now. It is the slowest time of the year for travel. Tuesday loads in February are about the lowest in the entire year

   These are the shoulder months for the industry. If you're trying to non-rev, Jan-Mar is the time to do it. Other really slow period is Sept-Oct.

Quoting jnev3289 (Reply 3): The city is a dump

Quoting jnev3289 (Reply 3): ...dump sums it up nicely.

Can any city next to the ocean be a dump?  

If you need an example of a true dump, may I introduce you gentlemen to El Paso?

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18): These are the shoulder months for the industry. If you're trying to non-rev, Jan-Mar is the time to do it.

Not for NYC-Florida!

Like WN, B6 tends to be remarkably committed to the markets it serves. I'm sure DAB will at the very least be given plenty of time to prove itself. After the resumption of BNA there will be only 4 places that B6 has completely withdrawn from and hasn't (yet) returned: ATL, CMH, ONT and TUS. I doubt we will ever see B6 return to ONT now that LAX and PSP have entered the picture, but I think the other 3 could certainly get B6 back in the coming years.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 20): Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18): These are the shoulder months for the industry. If you're trying to non-rev, Jan-Mar is the time to do it. Not for NYC-Florida!

Loads today are terrible on New York to Florida as well. Friday's and Sunday's are busy but United is flying half empty 737s to Florida for EWR just like B6 to Florida.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 19): Can any city next to the ocean be a dump?

Daytona Beach manages it. I'd apply the word "armpit."

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 22): Loads today are terrible on New York to Florida as well.

They hosted the Sportscar race over the weekend. That should have delivered some traffic.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):

Sucker born every minute!

Quoting adamblang (Reply 15):

You mean you don't like the "indifferent" face? I think it's super helpful.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):

Would you be so kind as to name the website you use to accurately check every carrier's loads? As a commuter, I'd sure like to know...

[Edited 2016-02-02 17:10:52]

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 23): Daytona Beach manages it. I'd apply the word "armpit."

Pretty much fits the bill, while I love the airport, the city itself isn't great, however, I am wondering what the loads are like on Fridays and Saturdays, that would be far more telling.

Looking at the seatmaps for the next few days on jetblue.com (yes, I know, but just to prove a basic point)- Without a ton of statistics, and for a very junior route, it seems to be doing fine, with each flight having what appears to be 100-130 seats assigned per flight (about.) Yes, I know its just the map, but it seems like load factors aren't nearly as bad as O/P made them out to be.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 25): Would you be so kind as to name the website you use to accurately check every carrier's loads? As a commuter, I'd sure like to know...

Well, assuming you're a pilot, to list for a jumpseat on JetBlue, you do it online, which, where if you know what you are doing, can give you at least a basic idea of the loads.

-DiamondFlyer

Isn't it a newer market for B6? I agree with others, it is a seasonal market. If anything, B6 will fumble around with schedules, and reduce frequencies if it is slow. And of course build it up in peak travel season. B6 is indeed committed to the markets it serves. Are they running 190's on that route?

A320s for now. Goes to A321s during Speedweeks.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 20):

Yes, even NYC-FL.

Looking at DL, they're averaging 60-70% load factor for most of February. Yes, even close-in bookings of this week into next week.

Non reving isnt what it use to be. Everyone seems to be full all the time now but Jan-Mar and Sep-Early Nov is the best time to fly. Sure the weekend may be booked but coming from what it was just 2 months ago when everything was full now you have 757s with 50 people booked.

Dab in Jan is not a warm vacation spot. It is real easy to get frost warnings followed by a 70 degree stretch of days. Not exactly prime beach weather. For that in Jan you have to go to South Florida. Even in Feb and March beach some weeks can be cool for the beach there.

Someone mentioned the 24 Hours race. Not really a huge spectator draw compared to the up coming speedweeks. I've worked that race as well as the 500. For the 24 Hours the stands look deserted. Loads will pick up soon. Others have the opinion that DAB is a dump. I agree, but it is one of the beaches that gets a fair amount of Disney spin off traffic.

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 32): Others have the opinion that DAB is a dump. I agree, but it is one of the beaches that gets a fair amount of Disney spin off traffic.

Daytona gets a bad rap. You guys make it sound like Atlantic City...it isn't. A beautiful stretch of beach, nice water, good restaurants, and a wide range of hotels from ma and pa motels to Waterfront Luxury. Also a long stretch of luxury condos from Daytona Beach Shores south and Eliki Towers north.

What Daytona doesn't have (which effects air service) is a reliable, diverse economic engine. GE left many years ago. The area has gotten much better in terms of its economy in recent years, but it is heavily reliant on Nascar, tourism, service (shopping/restaurants), education, and healthcare. It needs more of a corporate presence with real middle class jobs.

As for the Riddle kids on here that bitch about Daytona...in a 5 years, you will realize how lucky you were to go to school in a fun, warm spot. They're cow tipping in Binghamton. You are going to clubs on the beach  

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 19): If you need an example of a true dump, may I introduce you gentlemen to El Paso?

Hmm. El Paso is in the middle of the desert, is next to the Guadalupe Mountains, White Sands National Monument, not far from skiing in Ruidoso and has the beautiful Franklin mountains running through the middle of it. Very few neighborhoods in El Paso qualify as a dump. If you want to see a dump, visit South Atlanta or Myrtle Beach proper.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 20): Not for NYC-Florida!

When I was in Daytona one January had a few snowflakes.

It will probably end up something like:
A320 Feb-Oct
E190 Nov-Jan

Wouldnt be shocked to see a second Saturday flight Feb-July

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 28):

No no, he said "any airline person can log in and see loads." The reality of, for example, the way jetBlue does it, is that you can see smiley faces, of which there are 3. They are vague and often wrong. (2 days ago a flight had 20/83 (0) and showed an indifferent face.)

So I'm asking the guy who says he's a pilot and claims to be able to see every airline's loads so specifically he's willing to sass "airline people" to please clarify what he means.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33): As for the Riddle kids on here that bitch about Daytona...in a 5 years, you will realize how lucky you were to go to school in a fun, warm spot. They're cow tipping in Binghamton. You are going to clubs on the beach

Welcome to Razzles, here's your crappy temporary tattoo, try not to marry a local.

Quoting enilria (Reply 24): They hosted the Sportscar race over the weekend. That should have delivered some traffic.

Not really. That race never brings in much of any people. Especially not compared to a NASCAR event.

That aside, B6 is in DAB for the long haul. They've committed to such, and the city is dumping a fair sum of money into the partnership as well. Not only are they giving the airline incentives, but even passengers (free parking if you fly JetBlue till July...$10/day adds up).

Given the loads on such a new route, I've actually been surprised at how well it's doing, especially during this month. I can pull up plenty of loads on other airlines in established markets and see some pretty awful loads going up to NY this time of year. I don't think we'll see B6 pulling out of DAB anytime soon; if ever.

Quoting jnev3289 (Reply 3): Never understood why anyone would want to come here outside of for NASCAR events. The city is a dump

Quoting dabpit (Reply 10): Not a far assessment of the city. Every city has their dumps and DAB is no different. Over the years there has been a lot of work to fix up the town and bring in more tourism.

Keep in mind DAB is the closest airport for a lot of other areas than just Daytona. As far as I know, the next 3 closest commercial airports are JAX, MLB, and MCO. DAB sits nicely in the middle, especially for the atlantic coast communities, some of whom are relatively wealthy (Ormond Beach for example). New Smyrna is also a popular beach town. DAB

Quoting enilria (Reply 24): They hosted the Sportscar race over the weekend. That should have delivered some traffic.

I wish I could say it would. I love sports car racing. Unfortunately, it just isn't a big draw here in the US. The ALMS Grand-Am merger may have helped a bit (on the Grand-am side) but not much. 12 Hours of Sebring has lost a lot of it's luster. I say that as someone who went every year 2005-2013 but hasn't returned since the merger.

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 32): Dab in Jan is not a warm vacation spot. It is real easy to get frost warnings followed by a 70 degree stretch of days. Not exactly prime beach weather. For that in Jan you have to go to South Florida. Even in Feb and March beach some weeks can be cool for the beach there. Someone mentioned the 24 Hours race. Not really a huge spectator draw compared to the up coming speedweeks. I've worked that race as well as the 500. For the 24 Hours the stands look deserted. Loads will pick up soon. Others have the opinion that DAB is a dump. I agree, but it is one of the beaches that gets a fair amount of Disney spin off traffic.

Spot on with both points. January is the worst month for Florida weather. I'm in Orlando, and we had several nights down in the 30s and 40s and highs in the 50s and 60s. Quite miserably cold and not at all good beach weather. It also rains frequently. The Rolex 24 had practice and qualifying all in the rain this year.

Also spot on about the Rolex. I've been a couple years and you really didn't want to look into the grandstands and see how empty they were. I didn't go this year (busy weekend and no extra $   ), but the pictures on TV looked like attendance was a little better. Hopefully the sunny skies over the race itself helped attendance. The racing was actually quite good this year, especially with the GT battles. Hopefully that will get the series some much needed publicity and good will. A lot is up in the air though with the new prototype regulations being worked on for next year. Sports car racing is a hard sell here. 12 Hours of Sebring has survived because its a party first and a race second. I know people who go to Sebring and don't give a lick about the cars; they just go to party. I'm the opposite: I love cars as much as I love airplanes, and I want to see interesting fast cars. The loss of the LMP1 cars has cooled my enthusiasm for IMSA. Losing cable TV also hasn't helped since I can't easily watch the races.

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 32): For the 24 Hours the stands look deserted.

The 24 is always an infield draw. There are several sets of bleachers set up around the infield for different vantage points (grandstands are still the best) and there's lots of camping inside and out of the track.

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 39): As far as I know, the next 3 closest commercial airports are JAX, MLB, and MCO. DAB sits nicely in the middle, especially for the atlantic coast communities, some of whom are relatively wealthy (Ormond Beach for example). New Smyrna is also a popular beach town.

SFB and UST are actually the closest, but those both offer niche service (UST with F9 and that Brasilia operator and SFB with G4 or European charters, the English ones bookable only from the UK). For Big 4 service, you're right...it goes MCO, MLB, JAX.

So-called "airline people" in this thread having to be taught that February is a slow month for travel, particularly on such a new route...

Quoting eclipseflight7 (Reply 37): Welcome to Razzles, here's your crappy temporary tattoo, try not to marry a local.

Forgot about that place. They expanded it while I was in school in the late 80's. There was a drink free for the first hour. Nobody was there except me and one of my buddies. Sucked down a few drinks and tipped the lonely bartender every time. Once it got crowded he kept feeding us free drinks all night.

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 40): The 24 is always an infield draw. There are several sets of bleachers set up around the infield for different vantage points (grandstands are still the best) and there's lots of camping inside and out of the track

I know I worked at the track for the catering company for three years. Opened champagne bottles for the winning Jaguar team in I think '88.

One thing Daytona has going for it is the ability to drive on the beach, which is nice even when you've done it for 15 years on vacation there. I don't miss lugging chairs and coolers down a ramp/across dunes onto the sand after I got to where I could pick out a spot in my car and use the tailgate as an umbrella.

If the city/county really bend over to the corporate dollar in the quest for a four or five-star resort, as is said to be happening with Hard Rock and Westin demanding no-drive sections, they're selling their souls and trending toward becoming "Daytona: Just Another Beach!".

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 41): called "airline people" in this thread having to be taught that February is a slow month for travel, particularly on such a new route...

Daytona in February is a slow month for travel?

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 44): Daytona in February is a slow month for travel?

The first two weeks of February are typically slow for Daytona. The back end of the month picks up.

As mentioned, B6 made a long term commitment to DAB, they're not going anywhere. This isn't AirTran.

With that said, they've adjusted the times of the flight on multiple occasions. Come Spring Break, the flight operates two hours later, come the summer, it operates 2.5 hours earlier than it does now. Do I think we'll see the E190 take over for part of the season? Yes. Probably after Labor Day until the Holidays (with upgrades during Thanksgiving obviously). Part of me wonders whether they would have been better off splitting it up and doing 2 E190s a day. It allows for more connecting pax which might have filled the flights better. Right now, the connections are limited to certain cities in the Northeast. SYR and BUF have connecting access as far as the schedule goes, BOS does too. PWM and BTV do depending on the season. The plus is that BOS is another popular destination, and so are the SYR and BUF areas (I believe they're number 3 or 4 on the top markets list), so those people have new options when traveling to the area.

According to a 2006 proposal that someone at DAB shared with me, they were pulling for 2 E190s. At this point let's just be happy to have this long rumored and awaited air service. Everyone I know with connections to the DAB/Central Florida area (including myself about 3 different times this year).

Another thing to add, this route is basically in its infant stages as it is only 4 weeks old today. You can't expect them to wow them out of the park that fast. You need time to build it up.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12): Aren't you an airline person? Can't you see loads? Your posts sure make it seem as if you are very certain of yourself.

An Airline person unless he is employed by B6 can't see the loads on a B6 Flight. Why do you think they can?

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 34): Hmm. El Paso is in the middle of the desert, is next to the Guadalupe Mountains, White Sands National Monument, not far from skiing in Ruidoso and has the beautiful Franklin mountains running through the middle of it. Very few neighborhoods in El Paso qualify as a dump.

So even your argument is essentially saying that one has to leave ELP to experience anything nice. Everything you described is essentially outside of El Paso. White Sands and Ruidoso? Those are not even in Texas and qualify as features of Las Cruces where I have a house. Sorry, but I've been in ELP too many times to remember and the city is as backwards as they come with too many corrupt officials thwarting the city's progress. The town is where PHX was in the 80's and being a border town next to Juarez certainly hasn't helped. Dump is a word that fits ELP perfectly.

ERAU class of 1983. I could easily slam Daytona as it has many horrid parts. But, generally speaking, I loved it there. I haven't been back since January, 1987, so I can't say what it is like now.

El Paso I can say what it is like. I call it an overgrown El Centro without the charm. Or, the armpit of the universe. Did you know Texas wants to give it to New Mexico but New Mexico doesn't want it?