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Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:45 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 48):
KLM was planning to raise AMS-BOG frequency to 4x/week in S16, but has cancelled the additional frequency as the aircraft could apparently make more money elsewhere now TK is starting this route.

Well, KLM had a less than 70% LF in December, which is high season for Colombia. Not surprised that they cancelled the increase in frequency.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 48):
So competition TO BOG will be intense, and with EK and TK competition FROM PTY will also be intense

I seem to remember from recent O+D figures, that AF carried around 1000 pax in a month (out a total of 14000) connecting to and from DXB on its BOG flight. Only a small fraction of that to and from IST.
EK can capture a lot of those to DXB on its PTY flight. I can only imagine that there are quite a number of Colombian workers in Dubai.
As for Turkey, I hope that it becomes a big destination for Colombians, and perhaps the other way round.
It will take a long time though, so TK will have to make its living mainly with connections to points in Western Europe.
 
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TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4621
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:30 pm

Quoting Hagic (Reply 42):
Again, what's the rationale behind this?

From what I can see, TK is about to make a big push into S.America.
I was very skeptical when TK said only 4-5 years ago that they will be flying to 30+ destinations in Africa. In a very short time, TK managed to fly to 40+ destinations in 30+ countries in Africa.
I think there is a similar plan in the works for S.America. I know it requires bigger planes, bigger airport but in 4-5 years we might see a bigger TK footprint there. Rationale??? Money to be made  
 
hohd
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:55 pm

TK has very low fares to entire Europe and most of the time LH/BA/AF/KL do not match, so many travelling from PTY and BOG to
Europe would find TK's fares good enough even though the trip is longer.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3079
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:21 pm

These 2 segments, IST-BOG and PTY-IST, will be the two longest A332 flights in the world, beating out DL's DTW-PEK.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting Hagic (Reply 44):
What's the O/D traffic between Canada and Turkey compared to an eventual O/D traffic Colombia-Turkey (and with a stop in PTY to boot)?
Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 45):
YYZ's a much bigger O&D market with a lot of demand beyond IST (middle east and India, etc.), eh? Doesn't sound like rocket science to me.
Quoting TK105 (Reply 49):
It is very logical for TK to start this route 3w and using an A332. Turkey O&D and natural market of TK (Levant, Iran and South-East Europe) is enought to fill this capacity. I'm sure that this route will be succesful and mature with in 2 years by becoming a daily operation.

Colombia has seen various waves of immigration from Middle Eastern nationals, specially from Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Jordan, and even though most of those migrant communities are in the caribbean coast and the Antioquia Department, I am sure that AV or Copa Colombia will be able to offer good connections to MDE, MZL, CTG, BAQ, SMR etc

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 53):
These 2 segments, IST-BOG and PTY-IST, will be the two longest A332 flights in the world, beating out DL's DTW-PEK.

What is the flight time and distance for that route? I thought the longest flight with an A332 was EZE-FCO of Aerolineas Argentinas (14h15m, 10658km)
Felipe Carrillo
 
UALWN
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:24 pm

Quoting pipeafcr (Reply 54):
What is the flight time and distance for that route? I thought the longest flight with an A332 was EZE-FCO of Aerolineas Argentinas (14h15m, 10658km)
EZE-FCO is indeed the longest of the lot: 6919 mi vs. 6740 for PTY-IST, 6680 for IST-BOG, and 6631 for DTW-PEK.

However, according to wikipedia, Aerolineas uses the A342 on EZE-FCO, not the A332.

[Edited 2016-02-25 11:35:22]
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
realsim
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 53):

These 2 segments, IST-BOG and PTY-IST, will be the two longest A332 flights in the world, beating out DL's DTW-PEK.

True for PTY-IST, but MAD-NRT will be 50 km longer than IST-BOG.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3860
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:43 am

Quoting pipeafcr (Reply 54):
Colombia has seen various waves of immigration from Middle Eastern nationals, specially from Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Jordan, and even though most of those migrant communities are in the caribbean coast and the Antioquia Department, I am sure that AV or Copa Colombia will be able to offer good connections to MDE, MZL, CTG, BAQ, SMR etc

The Antioquia department? The "paisa" region (Antioquia+Coffee Region) was famously the only region in Colombia that did not receive any significant migration from the Levant. This comes from the fact that the levantine population found prosperity through commerce, which was underdeveloped in the rest of the country when they arrived en masse during the late XIX and early XX centuries. When they got to Antioquia, they found out they had fierce competitors in the paisas (the people of the paisa region), who were also not very welcoming of foreigners and decided to settle elsewhere. The most prominent community of levantine descendants is in the caribbean coast, with mid sized communities in the Bogotá metro region and Cauca Valley and Santander departments. Smaller but uninterrupted migration flows (most recently from Palestine and Syria) are still coming to Colombia, specially to the Caribbean coast and the capital.

BAQ, CTG, BOG, SMR, VUP, MTR, CLO, ADZ, CUC and BGA will be putting those VFR butts on the plane. MDE, MZL or any of the paisa cities will have minuscule input. But this is still a very small group of potential passengers for these flights. Most are third, fourth and fifth generation descendants who have little ties to their motherlands except for some cultural expressions and an ethnic identity (they don't even share islam, as the great majority of arabs in Colombia are maronite christians or second and third generation catholics).

The passengers on these flights will be low-yield tourists and bargain hunters which are TK's business on these kinds of routes. They make money on that and that's valid, in fact it's welcome.

The only thing that I don't trust about this lfight is the triangle routing via PTY. It was a disaster for TP, and while i'm sure TK's management is actually capable of working to sustain a flight, it might still be hard. The colombian economy has cooled down and won't return to serious growth for a couple of years, so competition will be harsh while passenger numbers are not set to see the explosive increases of recent times.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3100
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:27 am

Quoting Hagic (Reply 42):
- No stop at PTY is needed (with a second stop at IST for non O/D traffic, the most likely scenario).
- AV and LH are already Star Alliance

TK must be cautious with this schedule allocation, regarding the poor performance on the extinct TP LIS-BOG-PTY-LIS 3x weekly.




.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 48):
KLM already flies AMS-BOG 3x/week, but due to B772 performance returns from BOG via Cali to AMS.

The coverage of the European SkyTeam carriers in Bogota is complemented with AF BOG-CDG on a daily basis.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
mict
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:19 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:45 pm

The fares from Europe to Bogota are indeed very cheap. You can fly for about $400 return on TK!
 
LJ
Posts: 5462
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:18 pm

Quoting Mict (Reply 59):
The fares from Europe to Bogota are indeed very cheap. You can fly for about $400 return on TK!

How can you make money on these fares?
 
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TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4621
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting Mict (Reply 59):
$400 return on TK!

Are you sure??
I just typed in 15-29 July, 2016 on TK 175 IST-BOG round trip and TK website says $1149.00
 
LJ
Posts: 5462
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:49 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 61):

Are you sure??
I just typed in 15-29 July, 2016 on TK 175 IST-BOG round trip and TK website says $1149.00

Yes, go to e.g. the Dutch website and fill in June 1st departure ex AMS and 24th June return and you get a fare of EUR 398 all included. Moreover, TK is known for its low fares ex Europe to every country except Turkey.
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:52 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 61):
Are you sure??
I just typed in 15-29 July, 2016 on TK 175 IST-BOG round trip and TK website says $1149.00

Yesterday I did a search for the BOG-IST-CDG, for the dates around the Tour de France, and the total roundtrip was 622 Euros, still pretty cheap
Felipe Carrillo
 
B747forever
Posts: 13861
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:20 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 60):

Quoting Mict (Reply 59):
The fares from Europe to Bogota are indeed very cheap. You can fly for about $400 return on TK!

How can you make money on these fares?

Isnt it the norm to offer promo fares on new routes? For instance when SK launched ARN-HKG I got a return nonstop for $350. Earlier this week you could get LAX-ARN oneway for $48 on the SK nonstop.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:42 am

Alright this is as how Turkish requested Colombia's Aerocivil permission for the route:

Up to 7 weekly frequencies on A332 and B773ER, with up to fifth freedom rights.

Looks like AV, CP and VivaColombia will see some competition on the BOG-PTY route. I guess passengers that will be flying back to BOG will have to do so on either AV or CP, highly doubt for a normal person to fly all the way to IST just to fly to BOG from PTY  
Felipe Carrillo
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26468
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:45 am

Quoting pipeafcr (Reply 65):
Looks like AV, CP and VivaColombia will see some competition on the BOG-PTY route. I guess passengers that will be flying back to BOG will have to do so on either AV or CP, highly doubt for a normal person to fly all the way to IST just to fly to BOG from PTY  

There will be no local traffic on TK on this route.
a.
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 66):
There will be no local traffic on TK on this route.

How do you know?
Does TK use their 5th freedom between GRU and EZE?
Felipe Carrillo
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26468
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:54 am

Quoting pipeafcr (Reply 67):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 66):
There will be no local traffic on TK on this route.

How do you know?
Does TK use their 5th freedom between GRU and EZE?

Yes, because it's a 5th freedom tag-on.

This is a round-robin route. Airlines don't sell local tickets on round robin flights, it's an operational and logistic nightmare. TAP does not sell BOG-PTY tickets, and neither will TK.

[Edited 2016-03-03 17:55:04]
a.
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:44 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 68):
Yes, because it's a 5th freedom tag-on.

This is a round-robin route. Airlines don't sell local tickets on round robin flights, it's an operational and logistic nightmare. TAP does not sell BOG-PTY tickets, and neither will TK.

I mean we'll have to wait and see because both AV and CP are part of Star Alliance which could fly back passengers from TK. TP did not sell tickets between BOG and PTY because they only requested 4th freedom rights, unlike TK
Felipe Carrillo
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26468
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:56 am

Quoting pipeafcr (Reply 69):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 68):
Yes, because it's a 5th freedom tag-on.

This is a round-robin route. Airlines don't sell local tickets on round robin flights, it's an operational and logistic nightmare. TAP does not sell BOG-PTY tickets, and neither will TK.

I mean we'll have to wait and see because both AV and CP are part of Star Alliance which could fly back passengers from TK. TP did not sell tickets between BOG and PTY because they only requested 4th freedom rights, unlike TK

TP is also part of Star Alliance. It is not logistical to sell tickets on these legs of international round robin flights, and I doubt TK will become the only airline to do so.
a.
 
winGl3t
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:52 pm

RE: TK Announces Bogota And Panama

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:47 pm

Quoting pipeafcr (Reply 54):
I thought the longest flight with an A332 was EZE-FCO of Aerolineas Argentinas (14h15m, 10658km)

EZE-FCO is flown by AR A343 and AZ 772.
PTY-IST will indeed be the longest A332 route. Followed by MAD-NRT, IST-BOG and DTW-PEK

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