AA Announces SWO (Stillwater, OK)

9w748capt · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:11 pm

Didn't see this posted anywhere yet - but according to the "ocolly", AA will launch twice daily SWO-DFW service with the E145. Slated to start 8/26, bookable tomorrow. For those of you who live outside of Oklahoma, SWO is home of Oklahoma State University (not the University of Oklahoma which is in Norman - unbelievable how people can't tell the two apart).

Pretty interesting development - have to say I don't think many of us saw SWO regaining commercial service

Source: http://www.ocolly.com/news/article_b...2-cb7e-11e5-970f-cf7116c94399.html

Boomer!!!

[Edited 2016-02-05 07:14:29]

airDFW · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:33 pm

As OSU alumni, this is cool, does SWO has regular flights?

9w748capt · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting AirDFW (Reply 1):
As OSU alumni, this is cool, does SWO has regular flights?

Did you read my post? Starting 8/26, and no - no other commercial service currently at SWO. Hasn't had scheduled service for years.

a380787 · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:42 pm

This will be the only scheduled service at SWO. The challenge now is to get people accustomed to flying out of that airport instead of their usual gig of driving 1:15 or so to either OKC or TUL.

commavia · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:45 pm

Seems to fit AA's general pattern of leveraging the DFW and/or ORD hubs to develop nonstop RJ service to small and midsize cities in the central U.S. - often with a local economy built around (a) a university or (b) a military installation.

It's true that SWO is located closer to multiple larger airports with substantial existing air service than many of the other small markets Eagle has developed in recent years, so it will be interesting to see if/how this works. Since I suspect that OSU alone will generate much of the O&D demand in and out of SWO, the support of the university will likely be critical.

9w748capt · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
Seems to fit AA's general pattern of leveraging the DFW and/or ORD hubs to develop nonstop RJ service to small and midsize cities in the central U.S. - often with a local economy built around (a) a university or (b) a military installation

Yup - seems very similar to MHK (college) and LAW (military) in this regard.

I wonder how much impact this will have on OKC and TUL's numbers. I'm guessing in large part due to low oil prices, OKC's 2015 numbers were down quite a bit from 2014.

a380787 · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
Seems to fit AA's general pattern of leveraging the DFW and/or ORD hubs to develop nonstop RJ service to small and midsize cities in the central U.S. - often with a local economy built around (a) a university or (b) a military installation.

It's true that SWO is located closer to multiple larger airports with substantial existing air service than many of the other small markets Eagle has developed in recent years, so it will be interesting to see if/how this works. Since I suspect that OSU alone will generate much of the O&D demand in and out of SWO, the support of the university will likely be critical.

L-US had the same strategy too. Not sure about today, but back in early 2000s, it was, BY-FAR, the largest carrier into ITH (home to at least 3 higher-education institutions).

Adipasquale · Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:49 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):

L-US had the same strategy too. Not sure about today, but back in early 2000s, it was, BY-FAR, the largest carrier into ITH (home to at least 3 higher-education institutions).

I go to one of those institutions, and now while still larger, AA does not have a substantially bigger presence in ITH than either DL or UA. Last year, US/AA had 35,000 enplanements from ITH, DL 27,000 and UA 25,000.

a380787 · Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:59 pm

Quoting Adipasquale (Reply 7):

I go to one of those institutions, and now while still larger, AA does not have a substantially bigger presence in ITH than either DL or UA. Last year, US/AA had 35,000 enplanements from ITH, DL 27,000 and UA 25,000.

I was definitely talking about the yesterdays. When I went to one of those institutions myself in the early 2000s, L-US was the only game in town with services to PIT (yes, that old hub), PHL, LGA, and even seasonally to BOS.

ScottB · Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:04 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 3):
The challenge now is to get people accustomed to flying out of that airport instead of their usual gig of driving 1:15 or so to either OKC or TUL.

I think it can be done if the strategy is to charge a modest premium (maybe up to $50 or so) for the local airport over OKC & TUL. Otherwise the superior schedules at OKC & TUL will win in concert with lower fares given that the drive to either really isn't all that long.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
back in early 2000s, it was, BY-FAR, the largest carrier into ITH (home to at least 3 higher-education institutions).

Historically they were the largest carrier at most airports in the Northeast and mid-Atlantic. They had something like seven hubs in the region at one time or another.

compensateme · Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:09 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
Seems to fit AA's general pattern of leveraging the DFW and/or ORD hubs to develop nonstop RJ service to small and midsize cities in the central U.S. - often with a local economy built around (a) a university or (b) a military installation.

It's true that SWO is located closer to multiple larger airports with substantial existing air service than many of the other small markets Eagle has developed in recent years, so it will be interesting to see if/how this works. Since I suspect that OSU alone will generate much of the O&D demand in and out of SWO, the support of the university will likely be critical.

The "general pattern" for AA & UA has been to add or increase service to small communities in the Central/Eastern U.S. when a large enough subsidy was offered to mitigate risk. Of course, very little of this service survived after the subsidy ran out. We don't know the full details yet, but I'd be stunned if AA was willing to venture into SWO without a subsidy. Goes alongside the crux of the EAS program as a foolhardy way to donate other peoples' money, IMO.

a380787 · Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:11 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):

Historically they were the largest carrier at most airports in the Northeast and mid-Atlantic. They had something like seven hubs in the region at one time or another.

The surviving entity still has a big chunk of that - CLT DCA PHL JFK, with 2 really large focus cities of LGA and BOS.

Of course, none of the mid-size towns of yester-year like SYR, BWI, PIT etc.

commavia · Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:30 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
The "general pattern" for AA & UA has been to add or increase service to small communities in the Central/Eastern U.S. when a large enough subsidy was offered to mitigate risk. Of course, very little of this service survived after the subsidy ran out. We don't know the full details yet, but I'd be stunned if AA was willing to venture into SWO without a subsidy. Goes alongside the crux of the EAS program as a foolhardy way to donate other peoples' money, IMO.

I'm sure SWO is getting some type of subsidy or support, as - I agree - have many of the markets AA has added in the central U.S. in the last decade. That being said, I'm not sure I'd agree that "very little of this service survived" once the support ran out. There are multiple notable examples of AA using subsidies - federal and/or state/local - to start a route but then the markets eventually transitioning to self-sustaining, and growing, service. (MHK may be the most prominent example of such a success story, although it's not the only one.)

Quoting a380787 (Reply 11):
The surviving entity still has a big chunk of that - CLT DCA PHL JFK, with 2 really large focus cities of LGA and BOS.

Indeed. The new, combined AA is now, once again, the largest carrier or one of the largest carriers in many smaller markets up and down the east coast. AA benefits from having two exceptionally strong domestic megahubs on the east coast in PHL and CLT, and the addition of DCA and MIA only cements that.

Adipasquale · Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:46 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 8):
When I went to one of those institutions myself in the early 2000s

Which one?

a380787 · Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting Adipasquale (Reply 13):
Which one?

The one on East Hill =)

jasoncrh · Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:28 pm

Until very recently I didn't know there was a difference between Auburn and the University of Alabama. I thought it was one and the same (the University of Alabama at Auburn). So I don't think it should be a surprise that there are these two universities in Oklahoma.

quote=9w748capt,reply=0]daily SWO-DFW service with the E145. Slated to start 8/26, bookable tomorrow. For those of you who live outside of Oklahoma, SWO is home of Oklahoma State University (not the University of Oklahoma which is in Norman - unbelievable how people can't tell the two apart).[/quote]

jetmatt777 · Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 5):
Yup - seems very similar to MHK (college) and LAW (military) in this regard.

I wonder how much impact this will have on OKC and TUL's numbers. I'm guessing in large part due to low oil prices, OKC's 2015 numbers were down quite a bit from 2014.

OKC was down around 3% from 2014.

OKC's largest employer is the federal government, and the OKC economy is much more diversified than the state of Oklahoma. It is a myth that the OKC economy is so heavily leveraged by oil. The state yes, the city no.

OKC has a large and growing aerospace industry with the massive air force repair depot which employs 26,000 people, and indirectly supports 33,000 more jobs. Boeing also has a large and growing presence. Healthcare and the state government are also large employment anchors. The Air Force Base alone employs more people than both of the Fortune 500 oil companies combined, and probably the next 10 smaller oil companies.

silentbob · Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:28 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Thread starter):
For those of you who live outside of Oklahoma, SWO is home of Oklahoma State University (not the University of Oklahoma which is in Norman - unbelievable how people can't tell the two apart).

To be fair, a significant portion of the population couldn't tell the difference between Oklahoma and Nebraska on a map, let alone two universities/towns in the same state.

commavia · Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:50 pm

AA will also be resuming LGA-SDF from 2 June, once daily with an American Eagle CRJ200 (operated by Air Wisconsin)

RJNUT · Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:40 pm

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 15):
Until very recently I didn't know there was a difference between Auburn and the University of Alabama. I thought it was one and the same (the University of Alabama at Auburn). So I don't think it should be a surprise that there are these two universities in Oklahoma.

don't EVER let anyone living in Alabama know that!

Seem like AA is seeing value in serving large state university towns in Midwest/Plains states.

Adipasquale · Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:03 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 14):
The one on East Hill =)

Same! Which college?

crazytoaster · Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:05 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 19):
Seem like AA is seeing value in serving large state university towns in Midwest/Plains states.

They should add LAF the first university owned airport, just saying...

a380787 · Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:05 pm

Quoting Adipasquale (Reply 20):
Same! Which college?

Engineering =p you ?

RJNUT · Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:28 pm

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 21):
They should add LAF the first university owned airport, just saying...

I remember about 15 years ago flying Regions Air Jetstream J31 from STL to LAF as American Eagle!

Adipasquale · Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:33 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 22):
Engineering =p you ?

ILR

atct · Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:35 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 23):
I remember about 15 years ago flying Regions Air Jetstream J31 from STL to LAF as American Eagle!

We never flew there under the RegionsAir banner, but did when we were Corporate Airlines under American Connection

Rdh3e · Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:37 pm

In 2013 SWO recieved a SCASD award for $447K. In their application they stated they had $3.85M of local funds plus some other in kind contributions, in total this means they've been sitting on $4.7M in funds for DFW service.

Application:
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2013-0120-0057

Grant Award:

OK Stillwater

$447,000 Revenue guarantee for first service to Dallas/Fort Worth.

This application aligns with several priority and secondary selection criteria. The project aligns with the local contribution and public-private partnership priority criteria as the local community and State are contributing 88.3% towards the project to establish air service for the community. In addition, the project aligns with the participation secondary criterion as the community has broad support for its proposal.

http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...ASDPGrantAwardsSeptember272013.pdf

[Edited 2016-02-05 13:44:32]

UALFAson · Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:35 pm

I went to a rival Big XII undergraduate institution with a local regional airport that also found itself about an 1:30 drive from a big-city airport. My thoughts about the viability of this route after the subsidy runs out come down to two issues:

1) Reliability--if AA starts cancelling these flights due to weather, maintenance, staffing, etc., and pax start getting stuck in SWO or DFW, people aren't going to be willing to take the chance. With only two flights a day, there's essentially no backup option in a CXL.

2) Cost--flights at regional airports are often priced so exorbitantly in an attempt to get biz travelers, that I often find it cheaper to fly into a larger city and drive to/from my destination, even taking gas and parking into consideration.

I've done the Stillwater-OKC drive before and it wasn't bad, just boring. I'm sure plenty of people will continue to do that to fly WN out of OKC or TUL. That said, I still wish both the route and the city well. Congrats!

usdcaguy · Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:04 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 27):
I've done the Stillwater-OKC drive before and it wasn't bad, just boring. I'm sure plenty of people will continue to do that to fly WN out of OKC or TUL. That said, I still wish both the route and the city well. Congrats!

It seems that the service would be best for people just going to Dallas or people who need to connect anyway. If you want to go to Houston, for example, flying nonstop out of OKC or TUL will probably get you there in less time, and you'll have less of a chance of something screwing up your itinerary. There is a certain cachet about flying out of a tiny airport, but it's only neat if it isn't expensive and doesn't take forever.

9w748capt · Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:04 am

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 16):
OKC's largest employer is the federal government, and the OKC economy is much more diversified than the state of Oklahoma. It is a myth that the OKC economy is so heavily leveraged by oil. The state yes, the city no

I live in downtown OKC, but thanks for the education. I'm glad OKC was only down 3% YOY, not as bad as I'd have thought.

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 26):

In 2013 SWO recieved a SCASD award for $447K. In their application they stated they had $3.85M of local funds plus some other in kind contributions, in total this means they've been sitting on $4.7M in funds for DFW service.

Figured there was some sort of subsidy involved!

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 27):
2) Cost--flights at regional airports are often priced so exorbitantly in an attempt to get biz travelers, that I often find it cheaper to fly into a larger city and drive to/from my destination, even taking gas and parking into consideration.

I've done the Stillwater-OKC drive before and it wasn't bad, just boring. I'm sure plenty of people will continue to do that to fly WN out of OKC or TUL. That said, I still wish both the route and the city well. Congrats!

Could also see the opposite effect where AA offers competitive fares, especially if the route doesn't sell well early on. Will definitely be interesting to watch. SWO is close enough to where I'll check the fares out of there. We've driven to TUL and LAW before when fares were $200+ pp lower than OKC - especially if we were gonna connect through DFW anyway. Won't mind the trek to SWO. IRROPS will be hell though, no doubt about it.

[Edited 2016-02-05 16:05:58]

[Edited 2016-02-05 16:06:37]

Okcflyer · Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:03 am

While traffic that's more than 30 minutes east of Stillwater will likely continue to go to Tulsa, there are several larger towns / cities west and north that add to the catchment area that are currently leaking to Wichita or OKC. Although oil is in a slump, Stillwater is a hub city for much of the "new" oil in Olkahoma, the Mississippian and Woodford plays. Cushing, which is where almost all of the USA oil is sold, is just a rock's throw away as well.

So while there are airports nearby, there's fairly heavy business traffic along with the University in the region.

But the real reason for this I suspect is MD-80 draw down. AA has been yanking Super 80's off the short OKCDFW hop and replacing with small RJ's. If they're getting 50-75pax a day driving down from this area, they might as well take the revenue gaurenttee and see what market may exist there. No sense in sending another ERJ to OKC and have these people drive down, when they can just send the plane another 5 minutes north and avoid the competition of UA WN.

LAXdude1023 · Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:03 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 10):
The "general pattern" for AA & UA has been to add or increase service to small communities in the Central/Eastern U.S. when a large enough subsidy was offered to mitigate risk. Of course, very little of this service survived after the subsidy ran out. We don't know the full details yet, but I'd be stunned if AA was willing to venture into SWO without a subsidy. Goes alongside the crux of the EAS program as a foolhardy way to donate other peoples' money, IMO.

Wait...what?

Every EAS market AA launched form DFW in the last several years is still there so you're absolutely incorrect.

compensateme · Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 31):

Wait...what?

Every EAS market AA launched form DFW in the last several years is still there so you're absolutely incorrect.

Read it again; I wasn't referring to EAS markets, I was referring to additional service added by UA & AA to small markets driven by subsidies. Commavia 's response to me is incorrect -- for every success, there's multiple failures. Using other peoples' money, whether it be the EAS program or route guarantees like this presumably is, to attract air service is a big waste IMO.

commavia · Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 32):
Read it again; I wasn't referring to EAS markets, I was referring to additional service added by UA & AA to small markets driven by subsidies. Commavia 's response to me is incorrect -- for every success, there's multiple failures. Using other peoples' money, whether it be the EAS program or route guarantees like this presumably is, to attract air service is a big waste IMO.

I don't necessarily disagree that in many if not most cases EAS is an inefficient means of facilitating access to small markets, but since you you weren't referring to EAS markets, and yet two sentences later referred to them, can I get some clarification on what, precisely, was "incorrect" about my reply? My statement, that "there are multiple notable examples of AA using subsidies - federal and/or state/local - to start a route but then the markets eventually transitioning to self-sustaining, and growing, service," is a statement of indisputable fact. I didn't say there was a 100% success rate, but there absolutely have been multiple examples of AA successfully transitioning markets from subsidized to self-sufficient.

jetmatt777 · Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:40 am

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 29):
I live in downtown OKC, but thanks for the education. I'm glad OKC was only down 3% YOY, not as bad as I'd have thought.

Cool. I grew up and lived in OKC all my life. Moved to PDX last year, though.

The gov't sector and private sector aviation, healthcare, and manufacturing provide a super steady diversified base of employment for OKC, while oil now provides a fuel for fast paced growth when it is high. And with the diversified base, we don't get hit super hard when oil crashes. The OKC economy has certainly slowed, but it is still pacing along just fine.

I am very worried for the state of OK as a whole though as it is completely reliant on oil. OKC should be fine though.

Cubsrule · Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:01 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 32):
Read it again; I wasn't referring to EAS markets, I was referring to additional service added by UA & AA to small markets driven by subsidies

To which markets that AA has cut were you referring?

Rdh3e · Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:50 am

List of markets that AA has exited from DFW over the last 10 years:

AGS - 2012
AVL - 2011
CSG - 2013
CRW - 2015
CYS - 2012
HMO - 2014
RST - 2006
TAM - 2009
TOL - 2005
VER - 2014

It's not that long a list.

9w748capt · Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:11 am

I wonder if AA will add a frequency or two and/or upguage a flight or two on OSU home game weekends? I'd imagine flying directly to SWO will be a smash hit with OSU alums.

compensateme · Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:24 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 35):
To which markets that AA has cut were you referring?

I didn't say markets -- I said subsidized service. That includes everything from the fourth frequency TOL-ORD to ROW-LAX (and now they're subsiding a flight on AA to PHX). The list is quite long, actually. Very little of this service survives once the revenue guarantees were backed

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 36):
It's not that long a list.

It's also not a complete list; FNT comes off the top of my head. And not surprisingly, several of those markets were backed with subsides...

timpdx · Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:43 am

Quoting Adipasquale (Reply 24):
ILR

Heh. AAP here. Although ITH was quite well connected in my day. PHL, PIT via ERI or non-stop. LGA. Drive to SYR for the cheaper stuff. Even got a deal on Mohawk ITH to BOS once.

Byrdluvs747 · Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:09 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 38):
ROW-LAX

What? When did AA fly ROW-LAX?

twincessna340a · Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:11 am

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 15):
Until very recently I didn't know there was a difference between Auburn and the University of Alabama. I thought it was one and the same (the University of Alabama at Auburn). So I don't think it should be a surprise that there are these two universities in Oklahoma.

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 19):
don't EVER let anyone living in Alabama know that!

Or someone who graduated from one. WAR EAGLE!

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 21):
They should add LAF the first university owned airport, just saying...

I did my undergrad there. Senior year my Aviation Finance class did a pooled project which we created a theoretical business plan starting commercial service using Saab 340s. I would have done the same for AUO for my graduate engineering economics class had we been required to complete a class project.

Chuska · Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:48 am

This is great news! Now if we can only get someone to restart service to WDG and PNC. And to answer Byrdluvs747, yes AA did fly ROW-LAX in 2009/2010. That was of course, subsidized and did ok but not ok enough under the economic conditions at that time. AA is now starting ROW-PHX on 03Mar, again under the Small Community Air Service Assistance Program. Advance bookings looking very good so far.

usdcaguy · Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:38 pm

Quoting Chuska (Reply 42):
Now if we can only get someone to restart service to WDG and PNC.

There used to be PNC/WDG service to DEN a long time ago. I still scratch my head as to why it was DEN and not DFW. That service did move to DFW after some time, but it died after that. Seems like the best operator for that route would be K5; I can't see an RJ flying in to those places.

Rdh3e · Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:38 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 40):
What? When did AA fly ROW-LAX?

09/10

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 38):
It's also not a complete list; FNT comes off the top of my head. And not surprisingly, several of those markets were backed with subsides...

Okay I missed one... Still not that long a list. To put it in perspective. Here is a list of all the Domestic markets AA has exited over the last decade (excluding tags and point to point like AOO-JST) and just for AA legacy hubs since that seems to be more what you're driving at.

72 Exits:
ABEORD
ANCORD
ARTORD
AVLDFW
AVPORD
BHMORD
BOILAX
BTRORD
BUFDFW
BURDFW
CAEORD
COSORD
CRWDFW
CRWORD
CSGDFW
CYSDFW
DALORD
DAYMIA
DFWFAY
DFWFNT
DFWGRB
DFWLGB
DFWMDT
DFWMDW
DFWMYR
DFWOAK
DFWPVD
DFWROC
DFWRST
DFWSBA
DFWSYR
DFWTOL
DFWTVC
EWRLAX
FLLJFK
FLLLAX
GPTORD
GSOORD
GSPORD
GUCORD
HNLORD
IADORD
IAHJFK
ILMORD
JANORD
JFKPHL
JFKSJC
JFKSTL
JFKTPA
LAXMRY
LAXPBI
LAXPSP
LAXROW
LAXSAF
LAXSBA
LAXSBP
MCORDU
MIARSW
MIASAV
MIASRQ
MIATYS
MIAXNA
MOBORD
OGGORD
ORDPNS
ORDSAV
ORDSHV
ORDSPI
ORDSWF
ORDTRI
ORDVPS

But here is the list of markets that are flying in 2016 and weren't in 2005 (98 Markets):
ABQLAX
AEXDFW
AGSDFW
ALOORD
ANCLAX
ASEDFW
ASELAX
ASEORD
ATLLAX
AUSJFK
AUSMIA
BDLLAX
BHMMIA
BISDFW
BISORD
BMIDFW
BNAJFK
BOIDFW
BPTDFW
BRODFW
BWIJFK
BZNDFW
CHOORD
CHSDFW
CHSMIA
CLTJFK
CMHJFK
CMHLAX
COUDFW
COUORD
CVGJFK
CWAORD
DCALAX
DFWDRO
DFWFAR
DFWFSD
DFWGCK
DFWGJT
DFWGRI
DFWJLN
DFWLCH
DFWLFT
DFWMEI
DFWMGM
DFWMHK
DFWMLU
DFWPIB
DFWRAP
DFWROW
DFWSAF
DFWSPI
DFWSUX
DFWTLH
DROLAX
EGEJFK
ELPLAX
EUGLAX
FARORD
FSDORD
GNVMIA
IAHLAX
INDJFK
INDLAX
JACLAX
JFKLAS
JFKMCO
JFKORF
JFKPHX
JFKPIT
LAXMCI
LAXMSP
LAXMSY
LAXMTJ
LAXOKC
LAXOMA
LAXPDX
LAXPHX
LAXRDM
LAXRDU
LAXRNO
LAXSEA
LAXSLC
LAXSMF
LAXTPA
LAXTUS
MCIMIA
MHKORD
MIAPHX
MIAPNS
MIASAN
MIASAT
MIASEA
MIASLC
MIATLH
MIATUL
ORDRAP
ORDSMF
ORDSUX

[Edited 2016-02-06 06:40:49]

[Edited 2016-02-06 06:42:12]

9w748capt · Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:04 pm

^^^ Would it be so hard to put a hyphen between airport codes? Would be one million times more legible and less seizure inducing.

Rdh3e · Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 45):
^^^ Would it be so hard to put a hyphen between airport codes? Would be one million times more legible and less seizure inducing.

Feel free to do all the legwork yourself if you're going to complain.

Chuska · Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:56 pm

I think the reason why WDG and PNC had service to DEN is due to Great Lakes was awarded the EAS and their hub is in DEN. Before that, WDG and PNC traditionally had service to DFW on Lone Star and Big Sky Airlines until both of those carriers closed down. Going way back, Braniff* did WDG-MCI in the late 1980's and originally Frontier and Central Airlines served both points. FL served SWO until the early 70's but I don't think anyone has been there since. So when ZK served WDG and PNC to DEN (which were both 1-stops), it was quicker to drive to OKC or TUL which may have caused both of those markets to dry up.

Cubsrule · Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 38):
The list is quite long, actually. Very little of this service survives once the revenue guarantees were backed

I'm not sure that this observation is much more instructive than "the sky is blue." The routes are marginal, which is why carriers don't start them without subsidy. Some work. Others don't.

Adipasquale · Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:21 am

Quoting timpdx (Reply 39):
Heh. AAP here. Although ITH was quite well connected in my day. PHL, PIT via ERI or non-stop. LGA. Drive to SYR for the cheaper stuff. Even got a deal on Mohawk ITH to BOS once.

It's awesome to meet fellow Cornellians on here! I live in BUF, so I never need to fly home, but I have flown out of ITH a number of times when I was going elsewhere for a break. With the money it would cost me to take a bus to SYR, it is usually more cost (and time) effective to fly out of ITH. The main complaint I hear from other people about flying out of ITH (and I'm sure this is true about most small airports) is that flights from ITH, especially to EWR seem to be the first ones cancelled, and if your flight is cancelled, there are fewer options to get rebooked.

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