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Beatyair
Topic Author
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Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:29 pm

Hainan has come to Calgary with direct flights to Beijing, but the price is crazy.
How are they going to get this to work?

Calgary to Beijing on Hainan is $1,686.00 - Toronto to Beijing is $707.00
Calgary to Beijing,thru Van, on Air Canada is $836.00
Calgary to Beijing,thru SFO, on United is $903.00
Calgary to Beijing,thru Van, on Air Canada/Air China is $903.00

Air Canada was to start 787 service last summer, but nothing yet.
 
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rikkus67
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Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:24 pm

Add:

Another $500 +/- from YYC to Toronto
Another $300 +/- from YYC to Vancouver
Another $400-$500 +/- from YYC to San Francisco

...and remember additional on ground time for the one-stops.

You sometimes have to pay for convenience. Moreover, load factors will likely be more Chinese Tourist to places like Banff and Jasper National Parks.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:31 am

Quoting Beatyair (Thread starter):
Air Canada was to start 787 service last summer, but nothing yet.

Says who? Nothing but rumor and speculation....

Quoting Beatyair (Thread starter):
Hainan has come to Calgary with direct flights to Beijing, but the price is crazy.
How are they going to get this to work?

Calgary to Beijing on Hainan is $1,686.00 - Toronto to Beijing is $707.00
Calgary to Beijing,thru Van, on Air Canada is $836.00
Calgary to Beijing,thru SFO, on United is $903.00
Calgary to Beijing,thru Van, on Air Canada/Air China is $903.00


Are you sure?

I looked at round trip flight from YYC-PEK on July 12th and return the 16th....

Hainan non stop was $1686, as you said...

AC YYC-PEK with a connection in YVR was $1650....

AC YVR-PEK non stop was $1609.....

UA YYC-PEK with a connection in SFO was $1802, I'm assuming in U.S. dollers....so $2505 CDN!!

How about posting the actual dates your looking at instead of just the fares...


Let's compare apples to apples....
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:19 am

Quoting Beatyair (Thread starter):
Hainan has come to Calgary with direct flights to Beijing, but the price is crazy.

Your wording "has come" sounds like they have already started service. News reports say service starts June 30. I doubt they've had time to do more than add placeholder fares. Wait a month or two. And I expect 90% of their traffic will be China-origin. They're probably more concerned with getting the fares right from China than from YYC as first priority.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:23 am

The existing low prices are crazy.

Airplanes are full to Asia these days but at the fares you mention, even with current fuel prices, the airlines aren't making any money flying from Canada to Asia.

There's lots of talk about the slowdown within Canada impacting airlines, but when it costs the same or less to fly from Toronto to Peking than from Toronto to Calgary on a last minute sched flight, there's big trouble in Dodge.
 
Wingtips56
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Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:17 am

If this is a new schedule, they may not have loaded all the fares yet.
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behramjee
Posts: 5133
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:11 am

These are just normal system published fares. Hainan are not stupid, they will load competitive fares for this new service by end FEB !
 
Beatyair
Topic Author
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:57 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Thread starter):

The first line of pricing is from Hainan's web-site. The next several lines are from Google. I have also talked to several people that are planning trips to Beijing and they all said that it is much cheaper to fly thru Vancouver or Seattle. I would have thought that they would have given a start up price.
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:14 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 2):
Says who? Nothing but rumor and speculation....

Air Canada has been very public about trying to gain more slots into China. The routes quoted were YUL-PEK, YYC-PEK and a second YYZ-PEK and YVR-PEK.

All requests have been denied, as have TS's request for YVR-PEK, while more and more Chinese carriers gain unlimited access to Canada.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:17 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 7):

Quoting Beatyair (Thread starter):

The first line of pricing is from Hainan's web-site. The next several lines are from Google. I have also talked to several people that are planning trips to Beijing and they all said that it is much cheaper to fly thru Vancouver or Seattle. I would have thought that they would have given a start up price.


How about posting dates and flights booked.....

I looked through Google also and got almost indenticle prices for the July 12th return the 16th.....
 
cyeg66
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:33 pm

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:22 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 8):

Air Canada has been very public about trying to gain more slots into China. The routes quoted were YUL-PEK, YYC-PEK and a second YYZ-PEK and YVR-PEK.

All requests have been denied, as have TS's request for YVR-PEK, while more and more Chinese carriers gain unlimited access to Canada.

What are you implying, exactly? Isn't it "first come, first serve"? I know the desirable PEK slots weren't immediately available (to Air Canada) but are you suggesting that China, and by extension, its carriers aren't playing by the rules? I'd like you to expand a little further on your comment.
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longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 10):
What are you implying, exactly? Isn't it "first come, first serve"? I know the desirable PEK slots weren't immediately available (to Air Canada) but are you suggesting that China, and by extension, its carriers aren't playing by the rules? I'd like you to expand a little further on your comment.

I wasn't implying anything. And, I did not state anyone was not playing by the rules.

Someone stated that Air Canada's further expansion into China was nothing but rumour and speculation and it was anything but. Which I clearly stated.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:43 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 11):
Someone stated that Air Canada's further expansion into China was nothing but rumour and speculation and it was anything but. Which I clearly stated.

I guess I could've worded it differently, the initial comment I was responding to made it sound like the route had officially been announced and not started. Or that's how I read it anyway....
 
cyeg66
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:33 pm

Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:10 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 8):

All requests have been denied, as have TS's request for YVR-PEK, while more and more Chinese carriers gain unlimited access to Canada

This, again, is the PEK slot issue, is it not? It sounds to me like you're implying Chinese authorities are "finding" convenient slots for their own carriers to fly to Canada while Canadian carriers are being categorically denied (similar) viable time slots. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though, since you make sense the vast majority of the time.

I'd expand on my thought but frankly, my eyes are crossing, I'm so tired, I can't continue. Haha, getting old.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
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longhauler
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RE: Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:54 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 12):
I guess I could've worded it differently, the initial comment I was responding to made it sound like the route had officially been announced and not started. Or that's how I read it anyway....

I can understand your confusion. With the introduction of the B787s and the expansion of the "YYZ Global Hub", a lot of new routes were envisioned. Mainland China was one of those areas targetted for expansion.

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 13):
This, again, is the PEK slot issue, is it not? It sounds to me like you're implying Chinese authorities are "finding" convenient slots for their own carriers to fly to Canada while Canadian carriers are being categorically denied (similar) viable time slots.

That appears to be exactly what is happening. However, I wasn't implying it was anything illegal ... just the way things turned out. I am not aware of how the Chinese government awards slots at slot restricted airports.

Perhaps it is just a coincidence that AC publicly announces the need and desire for routes like YUL-PEK and YYC-PEK, only to be turned down for slots to operate the routes. Then ... only a few months later two Chinese carriers announce the intoduction of those exact routes!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
jimbo737
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

RE: Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:06 pm

When YVR-PEK (5,300 miles), n/s on AC tomorrow, (Monday), is $1,240 round trip, (returning Thursday, perfect for a business meeting), and YVR-YYZ (2,100 miles), the same dates and times costs $1,399, it seem pretty obvious that China is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

For all the talk about excess capacity in Canada causing a decline in domestic fares, few seem to be paying attention to what's been going on between Canada and China. (and basically all of Asia), over the past 6 months and not just from Western Canada.

AC's ASM production between Canada and Asia alone equates to about 50% of WJA's total asm production. The cheap fares have been driving the l/f gains to Asia and the same is true of South America. Brazil has been dirt cheap for a while too.

With those sorts of fares being charged for high yield travel, on that percentage of AC's total capacity, on top of well known domestic and transborder issues, and on top of problems in Brazil that precede the Zika virus, as well as problems elsewhere, it's probably safe to say AC is under considerably more pressure than WJ is these days.
 
loonytoon44
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:43 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines Comes To YYC

Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:32 pm

It was stated when they opened in GDS that only the full fare C and Y class was made available, I am sure that will change once the airline opens up the lower econo fare options in the near future.

Honestly for full fare, those rates are not that bad.

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