Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:18 am

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 49):
I was curious if anyone knew if NZ's 767s are planned for repaint into the new colors?

The 767 is in the process of being retired from the NZ fleet and will be gone in about a year So repaint is highly unlikely,
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:51 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 43):
But does anyone know if there have been any good studies relating OTP to serious dysfunction within a company's infrastructure?

Well I don't think there needs to be a study to see JQ's early dysfunction.. Lack of available planes, little or no RNP/low vis technology (hence poor ZQN weather could severely affect their timetable).. Heard the Propstars lack certain nav requirements, or nav requirements which are being enforced in the next year or so. Good to see the competition but hardly a force NZ needs to worry about for a few more years. Bring back Qantas/Jetconnect.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4386
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:29 am

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 47):
If I book a flight I expect it to be on time(ish), no matter if I am in a cheap Y fare or an expensive F fare

Sure, but if one paid $30 for the fare then one will surely have a bit more room for forgiveness in one's heart if the flight has a 30 minute delay.

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 47):
I have never experienced massive delays with JQ

I have had some awful ones from them in the past, a certain four hour wait at WLG comes to mind.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 48):
Doesn't look like they had an great day today.

Meanwhile, Air New Zealand cancelled two flights to Nelson.  
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 51):
Bring back Qantas/Jetconnect.

Absolutely. That said, most people have forgotten now, but the OTP of JetConnect's domestic services was pretty sub-par. The old 737 classics were going tech all the time!

From a thread or two back:

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 73):

I noticed VH-XZB is operating a BNE-WLG rotation for Qantas this evening and was wondering how many of the Qantas Domestic birds are equipped to fly ETOPS sectors such as across the Tasman and how often they perform these missions.

All QF mainline 737s are ETOPS birds. When Trans Tasman flights are operated by non JetConnect aircraft, the airline's policy is to sub in aircraft with PTVs. This usually results in aircraft with the VH-XZ* sequence operating the flights. The QFA167/168 services are operated exclusively by mainline aircraft; JetConnect doesn't have enough to spare. This summer, the service has been operated by a mixture of -XZA, -XZB, -XZC, -XZE, -XZF and -XZH,

Quoting gasman (Reply 132):
Why does the tacky Hobbit livery on the outside of the aircraft affect my enjoyment of the flight once I'm inside the aircraft.

Because, as far as Air New Zealand's 77Ws go, the special liveries are all that there is to get excited about?   
First to fly the 787-9
 
zkncj
Posts: 3914
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:25 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 52):
Sure, but if one paid $30 for the fare then one will surely have a bit more room for forgiveness in one's heart if the flight has a 30 minute delay.

But if Air New Zealand has been offering fares about the $30-39 on the same routers, one might feel like they should be getting the same level of service.

No matter the price you're going to expect the flight to arrive within an reasonable timeframe
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 43):
Poor OTP is a major inconvenience for pax, and (probably) reduces loyalty. But does anyone know if there have been any good studies relating OTP to serious dysfunction within a company's infrastructure? Is there evidence, for example to relate OTP to safety? Staff morale etc?

That's a tough one to answer.

In the US, the three big ULCC's are at the bottom of the OTP pile, and while it makes some customers mad, it doesn't seem to affect their business. The three are among the most profitable airlines in the US, based on profit margin percentages.

We're a bit spoiled down here. We have occasional major hiccups but little to compare with Ryanair's famous and quite regular stranding of passengers. They may have affected Ryanair's reputation but, as with the US ULCC"s, didn't seem to interfere with its profit margins.

It does seem to have some effect though, tangible or not. Ryanair has recently made some minor changes to be more passenger friendly, and now claims its OTP to be the best in Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22659822

"Ryanair: Is it really Europe's most punctual airline?"

I, as ever, take a perverse view, I don't mind delays. Apologists for Mussolini used to say that at least "he made the trains run on time" - but who goes to Italy for punctuality?  

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-11 10:53:04]
aeternum nauta
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
I, as ever, take a perverse view, I don't mind delays.

You might if you actually had to be at a destination at a certain time for an appointment, or were going to miss an important connection. Or if you had a clutch of irritable children in tow.

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
Apologists for Mussolini used to say that at least "he made the trains run on time" - but who goes to Italy for punctuality?  

Perfect  

Quoting zkojq (Reply 52):
Because, as far as Air New Zealand's 77Ws go, the special liveries are all that there is to get excited about?

Ha! Indeed. But as I have said previously, I predict a certain amount of brand realignment with NZ in the coming years back towards what they used to do so well - comfortable aircraft and professional service. Maybe even to the extent that a trip in Y on the 77W could be something to look forward to.
 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:44 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 55):
comfortable aircraft and professional service. Maybe even to the extent that a trip in Y on the 77W could be something to look forward to.

I believe it will take ( in part) a 9-abreast 33" pitch section and access to upgraded food on a pre-ordered basis. For me it would be a roast lamb/beef dinner and a bacon and eggs/ yogurt and fresh berries breakfast.  
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6884
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:41 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 55):
Maybe even to the extent that a trip in Y on the 77W could be something to look forward to.

Would take a brave brave person to backtrack on things they have already done. From the general consensus I'm hearing not on here but around the place, it is necessary though
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10122
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:50 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 52):
Quoting Andrensn (Reply 73):

I noticed VH-XZB is operating a BNE-WLG rotation for Qantas this evening and was wondering how many of the Qantas Domestic birds are equipped to fly ETOPS sectors such as across the Tasman and how often they perform these missions.

All QF mainline 737s are ETOPS birds. When Trans Tasman flights are operated by non JetConnect aircraft, the airline's policy is to sub in aircraft with PTVs. This usually results in aircraft with the VH-XZ* sequence operating the flights. The QFA167/168 services are operated exclusively by mainline aircraft; JetConnect doesn't have enough to spare. This summer, the service has been operated by a mixture of -XZA, -XZB, -XZC, -XZE, -XZF and -XZH,

Anyone know how well QF's WLG-BNE services are going?
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:11 am

Some comments from ALPA about the government's decision to make random drug testing mandatory for the aviation and maritime sectors.

Pilots unconvinced by drug testing plan

ALPA notes that all the large commercial operations already have random drug testing in place.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:29 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 55):
You might if you actually had to be at a destination at a certain time for an appointment, or were going to miss an important connection. Or if you had a clutch of irritable children in tow.

I arrived in New Zealand - by cargo boat - in 1965 as a punctual (time-obsessed) man. I was so beguiled by this Polynesian lifestyle that after about three months I took my watch off and have never worn one since. I very seldom know what the exact time is.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13095
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:39 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 60):
I was so beguiled by this Polynesian lifestyle that after about three months I took my watch off and have never worn one since.

Polynesian lifestyle????
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:27 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 61):
Polynesian lifestyle????

That's the life I found here. And when I went away from it that's the life I missed, so I came back.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4386
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:23 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 53):
Air New Zealand has been offering fares about the $30-39 on the same routers

Few and far between, though hopefully more common in the future as Jetstar takes traffic from them.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 53):
same level of service

I'd rather have my flight be delayed by an hour or two than for it to be cancelled altogether. One thing I would point out about Air New Zealand's link is that the airline regularly cancels quite a few flights. Yesterday, for example, the following services were cancelled:

NZ5045 Wellington – Christchurch
NZ5461 Christchurch – Invercargill
NZ5462 Invercargill – Christchurch
NZ5482 Christchurch – Wellington
NZ8065 Christchurch – Invercargill
NZ8077 Christchurch – Invercargill
NZ8078 Invercargill – Christchurch
NZ8223 Auckland – Tauranga
NZ8358 Christchurch – Hamilton
NZ8363 Auckland – Nelson
NZ8372 Nelson – Auckland
NZ8376 Nelson – Auckland
NZ8482 Christchurch – Paraparaumu
NZ8498 Paraparaumu – Auckland
NZ8499 Auckland – Paraparaumu
NZ8506 Christchurch – Nelson
NZ8525 Nelson – Christchurch
NZ8527 Nelson – Christchurch
NZ8704 Christchurch – Palmerston North
NZ8741 Auckland – Rotorua
NZ8742 Rotorua – Auckland.

http://www.thenzsource.com/110216-air-new-zealand-link-cancellations/

Quoting mariner (Reply 54):
Apologists for Mussolini used to say that at least "he made the trains run on time" - but who goes to Italy for punctuality?

I doubt that more than a handful of trains have run ontime since his demise.

Quoting gasman (Reply 55):
Maybe even to the extent that a trip in Y on the 77W could be something to look forward to.

Haha, lets not get ahead of ourselves now.

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 59):
Some comments from ALPA about the government's decision to make random drug testing mandatory for the aviation and maritime sectors.

Interesting quote in that article:

Quote:
The Transport Accident Investigation Commission has welcomed the move, saying there have been eight substance-related accidents between 2004 and 2014, resulting in 41 deaths.

Ok, I know that balloon accident a few years ago in the lower North Island accounted for a lot of those, but what were the other accidents? It seems like rather a lot.
First to fly the 787-9
 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:11 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 63):
Yesterday, for example, the following services were cancelled:

I assume the passengers on the cancelled flights were rebooked on other flights. What sort of notice would they have been given?
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:18 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 60):
I arrived in New Zealand - by cargo boat - in 1965 as a punctual (time-obsessed) man. I was so beguiled by this Polynesian lifestyle that after about three months I took my watch off and have never worn one since. I very seldom know what the exact time is.

The year and mode of transport were different, but I too ditched the watch soon after arrival.
Unfortunately it has to go back on when working outside NZ.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:47 pm

Quoting Planesmart (Reply 65):
The year and mode of transport were different, but I too ditched the watch soon after arrival.
Unfortunately it has to go back on when working outside NZ.

Jaysus - what parallel universe do you guys live in?? I've become one of those "time is money" arseholes.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:44 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 66):
what parallel universe do you guys live in??

More importantly, where is the entry portal??
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:49 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 66):
Jaysus - what parallel universe do you guys live in?? I've become one of those "time is money" arseholes.
Quoting coolian2 (Reply 67):
More importantly, where is the entry portal??

It's there - all around - but you may have to drop some baggage (being a "time is money arsehole") to find it. It's tough - close to impossible - to find if you want the glittering prizes, which is why I went away. And it's why, forty years later when I was a burnt out case, I chucked it all and came back.

NZ is part of Polynesia, the Realm of New Zealand includes several of the major Polynesian islands, with Auckland as the biggest Polynesian city in the world, the capital of Polynesia. I first encountered it in 1965, when I didn't have a lot of money. I was renting a bach in Herne Bay for two quid a week and if it was late and I'd missed the bus, I'd walk home through Victoria Park. It was common to see groups of Islanders, with ukuleles, gathered in Victoria Park having parties, singing Island songs. I loved it, but recognised even then that there is an essential conflict between laid back Polynesia and the more material world.

Roger-nomics may have killed off a lot of "old" New Zealand, and it may have killed that location for Island parties, but it hasn't killed that spirit, as with the millions of views of the "wedding haka" - that contradiction in terms, the Kiwi bloke as a passionate being, giving himself entirely to the moment.

The new Australian PM likes to tout Australia as being the most successful multicultural country in the world, but I say bollocks to that - we are, and we should be proud of it. And we're lucky, we've had our culture wars, we still do, but they're small stuff compared to most other places.

I don't think Air NZ has quite got the message yet - Maori is still a bit of a tourist attraction, Maori in a Museum, not so much an integral part of the whole thing.

http://www.airnewzealand.com/maori-experience

"Maori Experience - Vacation package add-ons"

So I'd like Air NZ to make a "welcome" speech in the other official languages - Maori and NZSL (which might be more difficult, but put it on video) - on every flight. It doesn't matter if no one on the plane speaks Maori (or if those who do all speak English), it doesn't matter if no one on the plane is deaf, it is a differential - that passengers are coming to somewhere not quite the same as everywhere else. And - for returning Kiwis - that they're coming home.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
747m8te
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:31 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 48):
Doesn't look like they had an great day today.

AKL-NSN
JQ371 SDT 0810 ADT 0853
JQ373 SDT 0850 ADT 0910
JQ375 SDT 1255 ADT 1327

NSN-AKL
JQ370 SDT 0635 ADT 0718
JQ372 SDT 1220 ADT 1330
JQ373 SDT 1300 ADT 1339

They have yet to operate an NSN-AKL-NSN trip on-time today, an there last flight of the day is already planning on being late.

On such an strong route by NZ, you would think JQ would be doing everything to keep it's flight timely?

Yet NZ cancelled a few flights to NSN that day. Since when is cancelling flights better for passengers over a 30min delay? sure no doubt they would have been rebooked on other services but those passengers would be further 'delayed' at arriving to their destination vers the original flight or inconvenienced by having to change their travel plans to get an earlier service.

...or hell maybe JQ delayed some of their services to sell tickets to pax off the cancelled NZ flights   

It would be interesting to compare both OTP and cancellation rate.
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:45 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 68):
It's there - all around - but you may have to drop some baggage (being a "time is money arsehole") to find it.

Can't. At least, not yet. Four other human beings are dependent on my income for their livelihood. So I live under constant time pressure (although I would hope, am not much of an arsehole most of the time).

So delays usually matter to me. Even when I am "only" going on an unadulterated holiday, I will have children with me whose excitement will turn to frustration at the flick of a switch for something such as an extended delay. Also, things like seat comfort, cabin ambience, service....... while seemingly superficial and "first world" to some are important to me because they affect my ability to function at the other end. My watch is almost never off my wrist.

In April, I'm flying HAV-CUN-DFW-SYD-MEL in one insane journey. After I arrive at MEL I have to be able to examine people at PhD standard the following day.

All are choices we make (although I never remember making an actual conscious choice for this insanity). I guess it just highlights why, when it comes to airline travel our lifestyles mould what will be important to us and therefore why we argue so much here  
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:01 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 70):
Can't. At least, not yet. Four other human beings are dependent on my income for their livelihood. So I live under constant time pressure (although I would hope, am not much of an arsehole most of the time).

I'm not urging you to do it. I went away from it for forty years. I'm just saying ti is there for those who want it, that's all.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:15 pm

And the BARNZ response to WIAL's runway extension proposal is out. tl;dr, they don't like it.

NZIER savages Wgtn runway extension plan

Report PDF

A quick skim suggests they're focusing on the benefits not being as high as proposed by WIAL. I find it interesting that they did not comment on the cost estimates which suggests to me they found them to be about what was proposed.

And even this report put the Cost Benefit Ratio above 1. Interesting critique and I look forward for WIAL's response.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13095
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:29 pm

Quoting Planesmart (Reply 65):
but I too ditched the watch soon after arrival.
Unfortunately it has to go back on when working outside NZ

Move to Norway it runs at a much slower pace than NZ, it's like being on Fiji time.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:19 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 73):
Move to Norway it runs at a much slower pace than NZ, it's like being on Fiji time.

Might run at a slower pace, but I personally would have to move faster to keep warm.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Topic Author
Posts: 4533
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:52 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 68):
So I'd like Air NZ to make a "welcome" speech in the other official languages - Maori and NZSL (which might be more difficult, but put it on video) - on every flight. It doesn't matter if no one on the plane speaks Maori (or if those who do all speak English), it doesn't matter if no one on the plane is deaf, it is a differential - that passengers are coming to somewhere not quite the same as everywhere else. And - for returning Kiwis - that they're coming home.

what a load of bollocks!
Yay lets waste everyone's time listening to something that pretty much no-one on the flight will understand (when it is hard enough as it is to get passengers to pay attention to safety demonstrations etc)!
It's a bit like when you ring the Auckland Council for anything, you have to listen to a whole big introduction in Maori first for no reason other than PC madness! Waste of time and money.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:22 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 75):
what a load of bollocks!!

That's a bit predictable. I'm not asking anyone to listen to it - or watch it - who doesn't want to, it wouldn't be a requirement.

I'm not suggesting a safety demonstration in NZSL - LOL.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 75):
It's a bit like when you ring the Auckland Council for anything, you have to listen to a whole big introduction in Maori first for no reason other than PC madness!

No argument from me. I don't what it has to do with what I'm talking about, though. I don't believe in forcing people do anything, just as I - atheist - object to Christian prayers at citizenship ceremonies, when more than 50% of the people there had elected to swear an affirmation not take an oath on a bible.

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-14 16:42:42]
aeternum nauta
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:46 am

WIAL responds

Wellington Airport hits back at runway extension critique

Quote:
Wellington International Airport has hit back at analysis of its runway extension project by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, saying the critique undertaken for airlines opposing the $300 million project has overstated the number of routes proposed and used unreasonably low estimates of the value of tourists to New Zealand.

...

The airport also took issue with NZIER's suggestion that the economic value to New Zealand of each additional tourist is overstated in the cost-benefit analysis conducted for the airport by Wellington economic consultancy Sapere, released in draft form late last year.

NZIER's "estimate that each additional tourist would add just $160 of economic benefit is massively disproportionate to the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment guidelines for determining the net benefits that New Zealand derives from international visitors to New Zealand," said Thomas. "The draft CBA implied a conservative value of $246 for each visitor, a figure which the MBIE analysis and other commentators have suggested is too low."
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4386
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:25 am

Speaking of languages, has anyone else noticed that Air New Zealand cabin crew seem to refer to Auckland as 'Tāmaki Makaurau' now? That really bugs me since noone (other than the council, as Zkpilot pointed out) calls the city that.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 64):
I assume the passengers on the cancelled flights were rebooked on other flights. What sort of notice would they have been given?

Presumably. The issue is that frequency on many of those regional routes is very limited, so being booked onto the next flight could easily be a four hour wait. In the case of NZ8704 (CHC-PMR) it was the last flight of the day, so presumably pax would have to be routed via Wellington. An inconvenience for most.

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 69):
Since when is cancelling flights better for passengers over a 30min delay? sure no doubt they would have been rebooked on other services but those passengers would be further 'delayed' at arriving to their destination vers the original flight or inconvenienced by having to change their travel plans to get an earlier service.

Exactly.

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 69):
It would be interesting to compare both OTP and cancellation rate.

   It sure would. Sadly, australasian airlines don't seem to publish their completion factor/cancellation rate in annual reports etc, unlike a lot of others.
First to fly the 787-9
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:06 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 68):
So I'd like Air NZ to make a "welcome" speech in the other official languages - Maori and NZSL (which might be more difficult, but put it on video) - on every flight. It doesn't matter if no one on the plane speaks Maori (or if those who do all speak English), it doesn't matter if no one on the plane is deaf, it is a differential - that passengers are coming to somewhere not quite the same as everywhere else. And - for returning Kiwis - that they're coming home.

I couldn't agree more. Other airlines can do it, so NZ can do it as well. I can't remember which airline, but I have seen the safety video with a smaller inserted picture n SL. Coincidentally, we had a staff meeting today (about 80 staff) and had a 30 minute NZSL "class" at the beginning. It doesn't teach you a lot in terms of the language in such a short time, but it teaches people a lot about understanding and attitude, raises awareness and acknowledges that there are people around you that are deaf. The teacher was amazing with a great sense of humour. I loved every moment of it!

Quoting gasman (Reply 70):
In April, I'm flying HAV-CUN-DFW-SYD-MEL in one insane journey. After I arrive at MEL I have to be able to examine people at PhD standard the following day.

Aww, you too? I try to build in 2 night stopovers, but of course it doesn't always work. In July I'll do HAJ-FRA-HKG-AKL in one go as well....

Cheers
micha
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13095
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:36 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 75):
what a load of bollocks!

If fly you anywhere in Europe they do the safety demo in their language first then follow up the important bits in English. Although I doubt there are many (if any) maori only speakers in NZ and if there are how many of them would be flying?

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 78):
Speaking of languages, has anyone else noticed that Air New Zealand cabin crew seem to refer to Auckland as 'Tāmaki Makaurau' now? That really bugs me since noone (other than the council, as Zkpilot pointed out) calls the city that.

Yip nI oticed this in March last year. It's pointless cultural correctness that started with singing the anthem in Maori first, even after 20 years hardly anyone knows the words, most players and fans start singing when the English verse kicks in.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Topic Author
Posts: 4533
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:06 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 78):
Speaking of languages, has anyone else noticed that Air New Zealand cabin crew seem to refer to Auckland as 'Tāmaki Makaurau' now? That really bugs me since noone (other than the council, as Zkpilot pointed out) calls the city that.

Yeah needless and unknown to most NZers let alone tourists.

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 79):
Other airlines can do it, so NZ can do it as well. I can't remember which airline, but I have seen the safety video with a smaller inserted picture n SL

Yes no problem with sign language as this doesn't affect everyone else having to listen to it. I guess the only issue would be that there are different forms of sign language (some use 1 hand vs 2 hands) and typically NZ has subtitles anyway.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 80):

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 75):
what a load of bollocks!

If fly you anywhere in Europe they do the safety demo in their language first then follow up the important bits in English. Although I doubt there are many (if any) maori only speakers in NZ and if there are how many of them would be flying?

Yes and no issue with that since at least a large portion of the passengers on those flights would be speaking German/Finnish/Swedish/French/Italian etc etc unlike here where Maori only make up a small part of the population and an even smaller portion of them even speak te reo and an even smaller portion speak it fluently (and virtually none speak only te reo and not English) not to mention that per capita I would imagine Maori fly probably less than others (due to things like a lack of family connection overseas and on average lower income/wealth).
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:24 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 81):
Yes and no issue with that since at least a large portion of the passengers on those flights would be speaking German/Finnish/Swedish/French/Italian etc etc unlike here where Maori only make up a small part of the population and an even smaller portion of them even speak te reo and an even smaller portion speak it fluently (and virtually none speak only te reo and not English) not to mention that per capita I would imagine Maori fly probably less than others (due to things like a lack of family connection overseas and on average lower income/wealth).

None of that is my point, although I would suggest that a fair number of Rarotongans speak Rarotongan Maori.

The point is - for tourists - that they are coming to a place which has two legally designated official languages - Te Reo and NZSL. English is not a designated official language by law, (except for the tax department) but "de facto" - by custom.

The idea of a short "welcome message" - not a safety demo - in the two official languages is to encourage the idea of inclusiveness within the greater NZ society. It isn't so much for the people who can speak Maori, but for the people who can't, or may not know it even exists.

I cannot work out what harm you think it would do and, at least from my perspective, may do some commercial good - as in "this is different!"

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Topic Author
Posts: 4533
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:31 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 82):
I cannot work out what harm you think it would do and, at least from my perspective, may do some commercial good - as in "this is different!"

It's not a matter of harm, more that it is unnecessary and just more verbal diarrhoea effectively when having to listen through endless announcements about this that and the other thing. A lot of passengers get in their seat and start a movie and it gets paused everytime there is an announcement. The priority should be on the safety announcements and on things that matter. As for NZSL...again it is different to other signlanguages (some use 1 or 2 hands with different signs) and it would be hard to see it if a Flight attendant was doing it. In the videos sure...it wouldn't lengthen them but again if there are subtitles then probably no need for SL.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:48 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 83):
It's not a matter of harm, more that it is unnecessary and just more verbal diarrhoea effectively when having to listen through endless announcements about this that and the other thing.

Sure, it;s "unnecessary" - LOL - Air NZ has managed just fine without it these many years. A lot of things in life aren't "necessary" but it's nice to have them, and making people feel comfortable and welcome is up there - for me.

As to sign language, I've known - and know - a number of Kiwis who sign, and they've always been able to understand each other.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 83):
It's not a matter of harm, more that it is unnecessary and just more verbal diarrhoea effectively when having to listen through endless announcements about this that and the other thing

And on an airline which struggles with verbal continence at the best of times.

The purpose of language is communication, and on this reasoning an argument can certainly be made for incorporating NZSL into the safety announcements. I do not, however subscribe to the reasoning that language should be used as some sort of cultural marketing tool or be incorporated to artificially create awareness of its existence.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:14 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 85):
I do not, however subscribe to the reasoning that language should be used as some sort of cultural marketing tool or be incorporated to artificially create awareness of its existence.

I'm not sure how it is "artificially" creating awareness of the existence of other languages, but hey, each to their own.

I can say "hello, how are you" in about twenty five different languages, I know the difference between Gujarati, Punjabi and Tamil. Often it isn't "necessary" but it is a surprising how quickly it opens up doors of communication, even if the rest of the conversation is conducted entirely in English.

Yes - language is about communication.

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-15 16:42:01]
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Topic Author
Posts: 4533
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:43 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 86):
I can say "hello, how are you" in about twenty five different languages, I know the difference between Gujarati, Punjabi and Tamil, and it is a surprising how quickly it opens up doors of communication, even if the rest of the conversation is conducted entirely in English.

And that would be saying hello, how are you in their first language. There are very very very few people in NZ who have te reo as their first language. Even amoungst fluent te reo speakers English is still usually their day to day language.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:56 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 87):
And that would be saying hello, how are you in their first language.

The point is that someone took the trouble to try.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 87):
There are very very very few people in NZ who have te reo as their first language. Even amoungst fluent te reo speakers English is still usually their day to day language.

But - I agree. As I said upthread.   

However, if I say "tena koe" to a Maori taxi driver - as I did yesterday - it usually opens up a very interesting conversation, as it did yesterday. It wasn't "necessary" but she sure appreciated that I did it.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1676
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:44 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 83):
It's not a matter of harm, more that it is unnecessary and just more verbal diarrhoea

I think I would take strong offence if an announcement in my preferred language was described by other, non-speakers as "verbal diarrhoea", whatever the necessity or otherwise of the announcement. Perhaps a little cultural sensitivity is called for . . . ?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:58 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 76):
That's a bit predictable. I'm not asking anyone to listen to it - or watch it - who doesn't want to, it wouldn't be a requirement.

I don't really mind what language is used, but it does get rather tiresome when you have to go through at least three languages for announcements, pausing your IFE in the process. I think the most amazing I've been on was Brussels Airlines back in October from BCN to BRU to TXL. Spanish, English, French and German. Actually there may have been Flemish thrown in for good measure. Lucky there was zilch IFE. The ME3 have a habit of lengthy, multi-language announcements though. Pretty tedious.

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 77):
WIAL responds

A comemrcially interested (to put it mildly) party refutes an analysis by an independent economic analysis. Well blow me down!  
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:54 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 90):
I don't really mind what language is used, but it does get rather tiresome when you have to go through at least three languages for announcements, pausing your IFE in the process. I think the most amazing I've been on was Brussels Airlines back in October from BCN to BRU to TXL. Spanish, English, French and German. Actually there may have been Flemish thrown in for good measure.

If you were flying from BCN, Spanish isn't surprising and I guess they were catering to the three official languages of Belgium - Flemish, French and German - with English sometimes used as a bridging language between them.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 90):
The ME3 have a habit of lengthy, multi-language announcements though. Pretty tedious.

They may think it necessary with so much international traffic - LOL - but sorry you find it tedious. A magazine, perhaps?

Or perhaps I miss the days before visa waiver when airlines flying to the US used to set up a whiteboard and easel to explain how to fill in the I-94 entry form - month, day year.  

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-15 23:06:29]
aeternum nauta
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1502
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:47 am

"Newest Tauranga flight a sell-out"

Tauranga has welcomed its newest airline partner with a completely full load on its first-ever flight out of the coastal city tomorrow, bound for Nelson.
Kiwi Regional Airlines chief executive Ewan Wilson said sales of seats on the twice-weekly flights to Nelson and on to Dunedin had been "excellent".
"Tauranga is performing well for us against all our other routes, which is fantastic, given we have yet to fly in or out of the city.

"Our experience highlights the need for affordable, direct, inter-regional air services in New Zealand, and vindicates our decision to add the Bay of Plenty as one of our key regions," he said.
Mr Wilson said Kiwi's SAAB340A aircraft was scheduled to arrive in from Nelson at 11.15am, departing 50 minutes later at 12.05pm.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-ple...cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11590281

"Jetstar's new regional flights running late says rival"

Air New Zealand has released data it says shows new regional rival Jetstar is failing to keep to its schedule.

Less than a third of Jetstar's regional flights on one route were departing on time earlier this month, according to data disclosed by its rival Air New Zealand.
On-time departures (within 15 minutes of the scheduled time) dipped to 30 per cent on the Auckland-Nelson route between February 1 and February 7, the Air NZ figures show.
Air New Zealand was running at 70 per cent on that route during that week.

Air New Zealand said that overall on its competitive regional routes its on time performance (OTP) was 80 per cent versus Jetstar at 49 per cent during the first week of this month.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11589883
Air New Zealand ~ dreams of flying
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8353
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:33 am

There are so many opportunities for Air New Zealand to adjust their inflight product for the better, however their announcements are not really the issue, even if they do smack of token multi-culturalism.

Anyway to get it back on track with topics you'd expect an aviation thread. This is just a few ideas of what I would do to the inflight product.

Shorthaul
- Upgrade the Works meal offering to something substantial.
- Drop the included baggage option for all tickets except C/U/Works Deluxe (A320/A321)..

Longhaul
- Simplify the special meal options and tie it in with a rollout of a paid meal option at a higher spec. If you want special meals it should be at the higher spec.
- Get rid of the Y+ Space Seats on the 77W and replace them with the newer 787 style seats.
- Get rid of the herringbone C Cls
- Reduce the front sky couch rows and add 5 rows of 3-3-3 Economy priority seat rows for elite recognition
- Add inflight WIFI to compete with the best airlines
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:22 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 93):
Shorthaul
- Upgrade the Works meal offering to something substantial.
- Drop the included baggage option for all tickets except C/U/Works Deluxe (A320/A321)..

Longhaul
- Simplify the special meal options and tie it in with a rollout of a paid meal option at a higher spec. If you want special meals it should be at the higher spec.
- Get rid of the Y+ Space Seats on the 77W and replace them with the newer 787 style seats.
- Get rid of the herringbone C Cls
- Reduce the front sky couch rows and add 5 rows of 3-3-3 Economy priority seat rows for elite recognition
- Add inflight WIFI to compete with the best airlines


-Shorthaul - I'd get rid of the entire "works" model. Every seat gets a meal & movies. Return to a J product in the A320s along the lines of the product they had previously.

- Longhaul - Yes, lose Y+ on the 77W and replace it with something like the 787 product in a 3-2-3 config. The exisiting 77W product just isn't confortable enough for the space it takes up. Lose the herringbone config in J - more and more people I know are noticing the irritations it seems. Lose the skycouches altogether but allow the armrests to raise on every seat. Upgrade IFE in both screen size and resolution. Globally improve meal quality, whether or not a user-pays system is introduced.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:40 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 94):
Lose the herringbone config in J - more and more people I know are noticing the irritations it seems. Lose the skycouches altogether but allow the armrests to raise on every seat. Upgrade IFE in both screen size and resolution. Globally improve meal quality, whether or not a user-pays system is introduced.

Is herringbone config the problem? The Zodiac seats are one of the best seats I have experienced on the likes of BR and CX. I look forward to VA's new seats on their 77W's as well. If NZ would use these seats in their next upgrade, I would be thrilled.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8353
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:43 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 94):
Return to a J product in the A320s along the lines of the product they had previously.

It's a waste of space because they can't compete with the genuine widebody J Class products. VA can't fill more than a few J class transtasman to any market and NZ flies to many more destinations that don't warrant J class plus the non AKL departures which were even worse. An A321 will have to replace the 763s on some markets, but it could easily survive with just 3 rows of 4 longhaul Y+ seats rather than the full 24 on a 763

Quoting gasman (Reply 94):
Every seat gets a meal & movies

The market has already spoken otherwise and the market wants cheap over a meal - well over half a flight can be of the no meal variety. The full carriers across the ditch are the ones which at least offer the option.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 95):
he Zodiac seats are one of the best seats I have experienced on the likes of BR and CX. I look forward to VA's new seats on their 77W's as well. If NZ would use these seats in their next upgrade, I would be thrilled.

Exactly. Technology and other products have moved on and so should NZ.

[Edited 2016-02-16 01:46:03]
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13095
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:27 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 93):
even if they do smack of token multi-culturalism.

Token multiculturalism is a problem all over NZ. Multiculturalism should come naturally not something which is forced, and boy do we love forcing it down people throats.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:29 am

A321 short haul international with Y+ at 3-2 abreast.
TT I often want seat only but with meal and movies: can this be an option?
If you're paying over X amount, can the airline please just make it 'works'?
come visit the south pacific
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4386
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 172

Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:32 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 80):
It's pointless cultural correctness that started with singing the anthem in Maori first, even after 20 years hardly anyone knows the words

I disagree. Most people know the Maori and the English verses of the anthem and I think it works well singing them both. It's become reasonably embedded in our culture. Meanwhile noone other than the council and Air New Zealand cabin crew refer to Auckland as Tāmaki Makaurau. Thankfully it hasn't made it to road signs yet.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 92):
"Jetstar's new regional flights running late says rival"

Air New Zealand has released data it says shows new regional rival Jetstar is failing to keep to its schedule.

And, predictably, The Herald toes the line and publishes any story that Air New Zealand's PR department sends them.  
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 98):
TT I often want seat only but with meal and movies: can this be an option?

If they're going to un-bundle the product, then they should do so completely. Same with JQ (its silly that if you want a bag, you have to pay for a meal too - or vice versa).
First to fly the 787-9

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos