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SKAirbus
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How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:36 pm

So, I came across a picture of a Comair Boeing 737-800 in British Airways livery. Comair is a franchisee of British Airways and as such brands a number of its aircraft this way. A similar arrangement is in place with Sun Air of Denmark, based in Billund.

At first glimpse the livery is completely different to that seen on BA's own fleet including the retiring 737-400 fleet. How can a brand new aircraft being delivered from Seattle wear such a terrible misrepresentation of the British Airways livery and how do British Airways in the UK react to it?

For example, the tail logo is the wrong shape and colour and on BA's own aircraft with wingtips there is no logo.

I have included a picture of an A320-200 with winglets from BA's fleet and the B737-800 in question from Comair:


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Opinions?
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JetBuddy
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:48 pm

I really don't see the problem here.

The logo on the tail is going to look different on a different airliner with a different shaped tail. The minor color difference could be atributed to many things, lighting conditions, camera settings and so on. Does it really matter that there's a logo on the winglets too?

I certainly wouldn't call it a terrible misrepresntation.
 
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enilria
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:48 pm

It is surprising that the brand people allow it, but perhaps they want it to look "off" to reinforce it isn't real BA...so they let it go.
 
jeffh747
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:51 pm

I don't see the problem. I personally love the look of BA's iconic livery on the 737NG, and I even love the winglets. They're much nicer to look at than a boring grey sharklet.
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gabo787
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:53 pm

It looks fine to me, I'm no expert but the first thing that comes to mind is that the tail of the 737 has a different surface area and shape than the tail of the A320 and therefore the tail logo looks a bit different in them. Colour wise I don't see such a massive difference here and bare in mind that this photos came from different cameras under different light conditions. I'm pretty sure that the guys at Boeing painted the aircraft as they were told to do it.
 
airbazar
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:56 pm

Other than the wingtips I can't tell any difference at all so I'm not sure what it is that you're talking about  
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:04 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
So Wrong
Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
completely different
Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
terrible misrepresentation
Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
Opinions?

Look, we're all avgeeks and a.nutters, but come on. Dramatic much? Winglets look great!
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kdhurst380
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:13 pm

The tail logo is too high (the tailcone should be completely red) and the white dotted parts through the tail logo are in the wrong places. It also doesn't carry the To Fly To Serve crest that all new BA aircraft are delivered with, and old aircraft are repainted with.

At the very least they're using an old brand manual, but even then its been loosely followed. Another interesting point is the logo on the winglets, this really just looks like the tailfin logo shrunk. The lack of design on the A320 sharklet is nothing new to BA, they've never had any design or logo on any previous aircraft that had wingtip devices, such as the 747. The narrowbody Airbus aircraft with wingtip fences have the bottom part painted red, which I believe is to make them more prominent to ground crews to avoid damage and injury, as opposed to a design feature.
 
D L X
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:18 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
Opinions?

The OP doth protest too much, methinks.


Are there differences? Yes. Would the average (or even above average) observer note the difference without a side-by-side comparison?

Nope.
 
777way
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:21 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):

Surprised too that BA over look this considering how particular Brits areabout everything, winglet logo would be the first to go of they were concerned.

The flopped Kenyan subsidiary did a good job of the livery.

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 3):

On some liveries logos on winglets look over worked and unsophisticated BA is on of them, however I feel every airline should have them on the inside for passenger view it looks and feels nice to see for some reason.

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Are there differences? Yes. Would the average (or even above average) observer note the difference without a side-by-side comparison?

Nope.

Poster means the livery is low quality, there must be something wrong not to notice that or not be quality concious.

[Edited 2016-02-10 07:25:55]
 
smi0006
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:23 pm

I think the above is a good photo- I recall seeing one much worse. I can't find it now, but the flag was 'flat' on the tail if that makes any sense.
 
gabo787
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:26 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 7):
(the tailcone should be completely red

But it is, is just that the 737's tail cone is less prominent than the Airbus one.


If you check photos of Comair aircraft in the database you will see that they carry this same livery so nothing wrong here.
This must be Comair's BA livery.


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777way
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:28 pm

^ They had the Landor one and World Tails as well previously.
 
vv701
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:50 pm

There have been a lot worse than this. Take a look at the photo of ZS-ZWI in this thread:

First B738 With Winglets In BA Scheme (by SAA201 Aug 24 2013 in Civil Aviation)

It was so bad on its delivery flight which arrived at JNB on 24 August 2013 that it was repainted fairly quickly with, for example, light (but still no dark) shading on its vertical tail surface.:


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Photo © Wesley Moolman



As Jetbuddy says (Reply 1) every colour dye will actually be different when viewed under different lighting conditions. So, for example, the light from a burning match will have a colour temperature of around 1,750 degrees Kelvin (the colour of a black body radiator heated to that temperature}, a standard incandescent lamp 2,450 degrees K, bright daylight around 5,750 degrees K and overcast daylight around 6,500 degree K while clear blue polar daylight can have a colour temperature as high as 27,000 degrees K or even higher.

The white balance in digital cameras is designed to compensate for these huge variations in the colour of artificial and natural lighting to which our eyes adapt naturally. In the days before digital photography film manufacturers used to supply so called 'Type A' and / or 'Type B' films for use in artificial light (3,400 degrees K and 3,200 degrees K) as well as 'ordinary' film balanced for daylight and electronic flash. However many professionals and very keen amateurs used to carry a colour temperature meter and a set of lens filters to help them match their film to the lighting conditions to get as near perfect colour rendition as possible. Even today motion pictures scenes shot outdoors are illuminated with artificial light that matches the colour temperature of studio lighting.

As to the tail design I do not think BA is too worried. If you look back at photos of Comair operated aircraft tin BA Union Flag livery that have been taken over the years you will see that the spacing of the various coloured areas on the tail varies. But it more often matches that of the Comair 738 than the standard spacing on the BA 320 in the photos provided by the TO.

As far as the winglets / sharklets are concerned, the first to appear were Comair's 738s' winglets (13 August 2013) followed by the sharklets on BA's 320s (16 April 2015).

Finally note that no Comair aircraft in Union Flag livery carries the BA heraldic crest although it was painted on the tails of Comair aircraft painted in BA's Interim livery:


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777way
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:53 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 13):
As far as the winglets / sharklets are concerned, the first to appear were Comair's 738s' winglets (13 August 2013) followed by the sharklets on BA's 320s (16 April 2015).

But the BA 744s have had them before that.
 
mpdpilot
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:53 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
the tail logo is the wrong shape and colour

I think it is the right shape and size, it just is slightly larger because of the size of the 737 tail verse the A320. If you look closely you can see that the aft white dots are just in from the trailing edge (same on both). The forward white dots come down at an angle just on the forward edge of the blue (same on both). The difference is with how much more forward the leading edge of the tail is, the A320 has a smaller tail. The top red ribbon is near the top of the tail (same on both) though the 737 has a taller tail. The Tailcone is completely red though the A320 has a bigger tail.

I see no issues with the tail.

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
BA's own aircraft with wingtips there is no logo

This is likely the difference between British Airways and Comair. Same with the Fly to Serve Crest they are different airlines. I don't know how much autonomy Comair has but I would guess that they have their own brand manual that is approved by BA.
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steex
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:02 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
At first glimpse the livery is completely different to that seen on BA's own fleet including the retiring 737-400 fleet. How can a brand new aircraft being delivered from Seattle wear such a terrible misrepresentation of the British Airways livery and how do British Airways in the UK react to it?

Even if there are differences in the details, how can you say "completely different" when it's clear they are probably at least 99% the same? Comair's aircraft aren't painted purple with the South African flag on the tail, that would be the sort of thing that would make me view it as "completely different." To the average person who gives the plane a glance out the window, the two examples you provide might as well be identical (keeping in mind most people wouldn't even realize you posted photos of two different models by two different manufacturers).

Regardless, I find it hard to believe that BA would be "reacting" to this at all - as a franchisee, I imagine Comair had to have the livery approved by BA prior to implementation. I imagine these are rolling off the line looking exactly as all parties expected they would.
 
tonystan
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:05 pm

It's just terrible.

You wouldn't mind only until very recently BA operated its own fleet of 737s. Granted they where different models but the tail is very similar so why can't Comair have had the tail similarly painted?
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777way
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:18 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 16):
I imagine these are rolling off the line looking exactly as all parties expected they would.

No, its simply BA not being bothered which is strange, if I ran a reputed airline like that I would make sure the franchise liveyrs are repicated to perfection.
 
copter808
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:19 pm

Has it occurred to anyone that maybe this is the way it was INTENDED to look?

Why does every change or difference have to be a "mistake"?
 
SKAirbus
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:25 pm

I realise I am a bit of a perfectionist and control freak but it concerns me that liveries are applied so differently. A better point of comparison are two 737-400s, one Comair and one BA:


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No winglets but there is quite a noticeable difference.
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airbazar
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:06 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):

No winglets but there is quite a noticeable difference.

Not to me. I had to zoom in to notice a difference. So if I'm on this forum and I can't tell the difference without someone pointing it out, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that 99.999% of the flying public won't either.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:08 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):

I'm sorry, I honestly can't tell any difference between the two aircraft. Even zooming in close I can't see any significant variations.

That aside, I will remind you that the exact profile if the Union flag has gone through multiple redesigns on the BA mainline fleet. The easiest way to spot this is to look at pictures of early delivery A319s, but other types have also had their flags changed over time. I mention this to say that even at BA proper the flag isn't particularly uniform.
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airproxx
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:22 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
No winglets but there is quite a noticeable difference.

There are actually some subtle differences, but ...... Now I can't tell the one I prefer!   
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mariner
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:44 pm

Quoting airproxx (Reply 23):
There are actually some subtle differences, but

Too subtle for me to spot 'em - LOL.

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-10 11:48:16]
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AAlaxfan
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:29 pm

Only difference I can see is a slightly narrower blue stripe on the tail. Color differences depend on lighting of pictures. Show me both taken in the same lighting conditions and then a comparison of color can be made.

Both would look like a BA livery to the masses.
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richierich
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:40 pm

Quoting aalaxfan (Reply 25):
Only difference I can see is a slightly narrower blue stripe on the tail. Color differences depend on lighting of pictures. Show me both taken in the same lighting conditions and then a comparison of color can be made.

Not slightly, I would say significantly. My twelve year old daughter could recognize that difference and she knows nothing about BA liveries.
I'm with the OP, every time I see the Comair livery I cringe a little. It's close but certainly not quite right.

As for why BA allows the changes to the tail and titles - or maybe it is intentional - I do not know.
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steex
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:58 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
No winglets but there is quite a noticeable difference.

Honest question - would you notice the difference without comparing the two directly? Could you look at the Comair 737 without having recently seen a BA narrowbody and be able to pick out the differences?

The reality is there will be virtually no opportunity to ever compare a Comair 737 to a BA narrowbody side-by-side in the real world - there are zero airports in the world with scheduled service by both. The only airports with service from both at all are CPH, JNB, and MRU, which are obviously served by BA widebodies - and I think even most airline fans would acknowledge it's difficult to expect a perfect translation from a widebody to a narrowbody for the same livery.

Quoting 777way (Reply 18):
No, its simply BA not being bothered which is strange, if I ran a reputed airline like that I would make sure the franchise liveyrs are repicated to perfection.

Maybe you're right and BA is seeing this for the first time ever on live aircraft, but doesn't care enough to do anything. We'll never know for sure.

What you're saying here isn't mutually exclusive with my statement, though. My point is that Comair likely designed their livery in accordance with the brand images that have been approved for its use by BA. BA probably was aware the 738s wouldn't be an identical match to its other narrowbody liveries, and doesn't have a problem with it - therefore, BA is not surprised by what it is seeing now.

To me, it just seems most likely that BA is aware these Comair birds will spend very little time in the company of actual BA aircraft (and no time with BA narrowbodies), and acknowledges the minute differences will do nothing to actually dilute their brand image.

[Edited 2016-02-10 13:00:17]
 
LHRXXXLHR
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:12 pm

If this doesn't raise the level of the marketing teams in Waterside from Miffed to Peeved I'm not sure what will.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:54 pm

I just can't grasp the point of this discussion. The Chatham tail appears on every BA plane, the size and composition varies according to the fin and tail cone on each aircraft type. The Comair 738 looks slightly different to the BA A320, B787, B777 etc. Just get over it and move on. If BA were in the slightest part bothered it wouldn't have happened.

You'd think from some of the hysteria that they had used two Blue stripes and one Red  banghead   banghead 

[Edited 2016-02-10 13:55:57]
 
richierich
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:30 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 29):
You'd think from some of the hysteria that they had used two Blue stripes and one Red

It's not "hysteria" - the OP noticed a difference between the liveries and it has been confirmed by others.
The fact is that the blue tail stripe is noticeably different on the Comair aircraft; it's not just a B737 type thing, as SKAirbus demonstrated.
It's not a terrible thing, but if we (members of the public, albeit avgeeks) notice it, then I am sure BA brand control is aware of it. Why I cannot say because I do not know.
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CARST
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:32 am

You guys are just total nerds. A.nutters!  

I don't see one difference in the photos the OP posted. I guess no one at BA sees a difference, too. 
 
AirStairs
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:28 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 22):
I'm sorry, I honestly can't tell any difference between the two aircraft. Even zooming in close I can't see any significant variations.

The most glaring difference to me is actually not the tails (which are different), but the typeface in which 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' is rendered on the fuselage. The Comair example looks distinctly off from the BA standard - the letters are much narrower; almost sickly looking IMO.
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:48 am

I am with the OP as well. Call me what you like, but I have noticed for several years that a number of the Comair B733/B734/B738 aircraft look different to their BA mainline counterparts (B733/B734 at least) in terms of how the livery is applied.

Most of the B732s were the same since they were delivered from BA mainline, but these were in the world tails design at that time and the tails were repainted into the union flag design in South Africa. Hard to compare those since there were no B732s in that design back in the UK, but I don't recall them being too badly applied.

Most if not all of the Comair B733/B734 and a handful of early B732s were not ex-BA machines, and some of those did look a bit 'slapdash' to me - particularly the union flag versus how the same was applied on the BA mainline B737s.

The one thing that I think looks the worst with the current Comair application of the BA livery is the all-white nosecones. It may seem a small thing, but the livery just looks incomplete.

Not quite as bad as this abomination of the BA brand a few years ago though. It was a short term lease from Excel Airways and the blue was left over from its previous operators livery, therefore it was not a full repaint, but it really made me cringe though:


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Jalap
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:23 am

Quoting gabo787 (Reply 11):
If you check photos of Comair aircraft in the database you will see that they carry this same livery so nothing wrong here.
This must be Comair's BA livery.

That would be my idea too. Just like Coca Cola tastes different in every country to better suit the local market. I can perfectly understand the livery is tweaked a bit to better suit the South African market.
 
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:52 am

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 6):
Look, we're all avgeeks and a.nutters, but come on. Dramatic much?

  

This is so pointless that even AvGeeks struggle to see what the OP is talking about... definitely not worth getting all bent out of shape over. Ridiculous.




Quoting airbazar (Reply 21):
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that 99.999% of the flying public won't either.

Nor care, that's even more pertinent part!
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winterlight
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:47 am

The 400s are the worst. Do people still claim they can't tell the difference?




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PlanesNTrains
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:18 am

1. The differences to me appear slight.
2. I've often noticed (subconsciously for the most part) a slight difference between Comair and BA.
3. I would imagine it's entirely intentional. (Why else would there be a difference so consistently?)

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SKAirbus
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:38 am

As much as I love being ridiculed, my post was merely an observation that Comair do not apply the BA livery to their aircraft to the same standard.

I'm not sure if anyone agrees but I think Sun Air of Scandinavia do a much better job on their Dorniers even though the tail is shaped differently. The only high-winged aircraft in recent times in the BA fleet was the RJ100 that Cityflyer operated. BA kept the engines white on these aircraft, whilst Sun Air paint the engines of theirs.


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Andy33
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:19 am

Given the dates of some of the photographs it is clear that the Comair interpretation of the BA livery as applied to 737s has been in place for some considerable time.
So:
either BA knew and had approved the difference in advance

or BA found out later but consider the difference trivial and not worth the expense of repainting planes ahead of schedule.
Certainly they would have been able to change the way planes were painted going forward, if they disagreed with it.

or they still haven't noticed.

or they think the Comair interpretation on the 737 is actually an improvement. It is highly likely the people who approved the livery style guide aren't even working for BA any more.

As others have said, nobody has been able to see a 737 painted by BA alongside one painted to Comair specs, or will be able to in the forseeable future.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:24 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
A better point of comparison are two 737-400s, one Comair and one BA:

I see the difference in the tail, but it seems within acceptable variance for most companies' brand standards. Certainly better than the DL Flying Colors plane I once saw with an "oops" on the widget. (There was literally an extra smudge of paint coming off the upper portion of the widget, quite obvious and quite visible when boarding the aircraft.)

Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 33):
Not quite as bad as this abomination of the BA brand a few years ago though. It was a short term lease from Excel Airways and the blue was left over from its previous operators livery, therefore it was not a full repaint, but it really made me cringe though:

Oh, that's just terrible. Might has well have just left the tail blank if they were going to paint it like that...


Really, as others have suggested, this boils down to an approved livery for the fleet type being slightly different than the parent carrier's livery. Probably it's mostly due to slightly different stencil sets between the different paint shops.
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CARST
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:16 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 36):
The 400s are the worst. Do people still claim they can't tell the difference?

These are minimalistic differences. No one cares except a.netters.
 
777way
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:30 am

Quoting Jalap (Reply 34):
I can perfectly understand the livery is tweaked a bit to better suit the South African market.

No it isnt tweaked, its tardy,, and BA dont care too as long as it looks like them.

Quoting steex (Reply 27):
To me, it just seems most likely that BA is aware these Comair birds will spend very little time in the company of actual BA aircraft (and no time with BA narrowbodies), and acknowledges the minute differences will do nothing to actually dilute their brand image.

Yes temporary leases sometimes end up with varying looks of the original livery on other arlines as well.

[Edited 2016-02-11 03:37:23]
 
borgcube
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:46 pm

RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:48 am

Asked someone on the technical side of Comair some time ago about the -400 schemes and was told BA makes them deliberately change the scheme slightly from mainstream BA.
Same reason the crest is not displayed on the Comair aircraft.

Now if only BA would allow them to fit proper business class seats instead of forcing them to use the crappy tiny European BA business class seat.

BA have a hand in all decisions, so dont think it Comair alone that changed the scheme on all their BA livery aircraft.
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:21 pm

The paint job looks fine, nothing to see here........
 
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terrificturk
Posts: 119
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RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:50 pm

Oh... the Do328 is still such a cuutie aircraft... much underrated IMHO... but ok... what were we talking about ?
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:52 pm

Im my part of the world the Comair version would come out of a anything goes type mentality.
 
SKAirbus
Topic Author
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:02 pm

Quoting terrificturk (Reply 45):
Oh... the Do328 is still such a cuutie aircraft... much underrated IMHO... but ok... what were we talking about ?

Agree! I love the 328JET. Travelled on one from BLL to MAN a couple of years ago... Sun Air service is also far superior to BA mainline with a full meal served to all passengers.

Just a pity the 328JET isn't certified for LCY. The prop version of the 328 is a bit long in the tooth...
Base: BRU
 
A340600
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:25 pm

Often wondered this myself. The Comair livery is definitely distinct and I would be surprised if BA weren't aware.
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Let me give you my guess to the question posed by the TO, 'How Can Comair Get The BA Livery So Wrong?'.

The first version versions of the BA Union Flag livery as applied to subsonic aircraft was launched on Boeing 763 G-BNWR on 18 April 1999 that was to carry Queen Elizabeth on a State Visit to South Korea that day. However except on the almost-square-tailed BA 744s and Avro RJ 100s, this livery was different to that on all its other types to that which they wear today. (And here I am ignoring the fact that almost half the BA fleet is now wearing the Crest version of the Union Flag livery while the other half is not.)

This original version of the livery I will call 'Union Flag Phase 1 livery'. It was characterised by a large area of white at the top of the tail on all aircraft where the height of the vertical tail surface was significantly different to the distance between the surface's leading edge and the trailing edge of its rudder. This Phase 1 version was used by BA until the summer of 2000.

It may be that the first BA aircraft to be painted in what I will call 'Union Flag Phase 2 livery' was a Boeing 777 236, G-YMMG. It was painted by Boeing before delivery. It differed from the Union Flag Phase 1 livery in that the tail image was enlarged so that a greater proportion of the vertical tail surface was coloured. A smaller area, particularly at the top of the surface, was white.

Below are two photos. The first is of 772 G-YMMF. This was the last aircraft painted by Boeing prior to delivery in the Union Flag Phase 1 livery. It was delivered on 17 May 2000.

The second photo is of the previously mentioned 772 G-YMMG. It was delivered on 27 September 2000. It may have been the first BA aircraft to be painted in the Phase 2 version of the Union Flag livery.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Richard Covington
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Photo © Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages



To further illustrate the difference here is a photo of a Boeing 752 (G-CPEL) with a Union Flag Phase 2 vertical tail surface temporarily fitted with a Union Flag Phase 1 rudder:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Nikel



What has all of this to do with Comair's 737 tails?

So far, except where qualified, the above is fact. Now some guess work.

The stencils for the Union Flag tail image are expensive. This is because they include a multitude of both light and dark dots of varying sizes to give the 'flag flying' effect. For BA with a fleet of around 250 aircraft, including at that time 42 772s, the stencils would need frequent replacing through constant use. So new stencils will have been made. For Comair and their relatively small fleet of 737s this was not the case. Their Phase 1 stencils had much life left in them. So instead of enlarging the image they achieved a broadly similar effect by slightly increasing the distance between the top and bottom red areas and the middle blue area.

How do I deduce that the stencils are expensive? Well, originally the shading dots extended down onto the (red) tail cone. On all recently repainted aircraft these dots are totally absent. The tail cone's are an even red. I can see no reason other than cost saving for this change within the BA Main Fleet.

If the above is correct I suspect that the Comair solution was approved by BA (who needed the 737 Phase 2 stencils for their fleet of 19 734s they operated at that time).

Just a final question to those who have been so critical of Comair: When did you first become aware of the existence of both what I have called the Union Flag Phase 1 and Phase 2 liveries? And when did you first notice the absence of the shading dots on repainted tail cones. Of course it is obvious when aircraft are next to one another. But when they are not . . .

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