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airboeingbus
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Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:57 pm

What aircraft does anybody know of that never made it in to commercial production or it's first flight? Also what are the reasons behind their fate?
 
G500
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:01 pm

there have been several dozens airplanes that engineers presented to manufactures and airlines, only to be turned down

back in the 90s, Comair went to Embraer and said "if you could build a regional jet, what would it look like" Embraer's offering was not very good. It look like a Brasilia with jet-engines.... eventually Comair went to Bombardier and the CRJ was born
 
Q
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:05 pm

Transaero Airbus 321 but never made to first flight that Transaero went bankruptcy.

That's all I know of one them. Maybe a few. Wait someone else can post more details later.


Q
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:09 pm

The SST would be one.
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ordell
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:16 pm

MD-11 and MD-95/717 should in this race hands down.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:16 pm

What are you looking for though?

If you're just talking about concepts... then we'll be here all day.

Do you mean something that was built, but then never really sold well?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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litz
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:17 pm

Here's a better question ... how many (non-military) actually got working prototypes, but were never built?
 
Yflyer
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:21 pm

The first plane that came to my mind was the Fairchild-Dornier 728. One test aircraft was built but the company went bankrupt before it ever flew.

[Edited 2016-02-10 14:23:15]
 
ACD8Y
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:21 pm

BAC 2-11
BAC 3-11
Bristol Brabazon
Saunders-Roe Princess
 
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northstardc4m
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:21 pm

Mercure - Give it 1000nm (even 500nm would of helped) more range and probably would of sold well... or gotten the Mercure 200 with CFM56s into the air and you have the A320 10 years early.

Trident - If the original design with the RR Medway had been built, the 727 probably would of had a much harder battle for orders. The shrunk Spey powered Trident was just not up to competing with the 727 in a straight contest.

Shanghai Y-10 - 707 clone in the era of 757/767/A310. That one WAS dead from the start.
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Web500sjc
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:21 pm

Quoting litz (Reply 6):

Spruce Goose

Bristol Brabazon
Boiler Up!
 
Sooner787
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:24 pm

I'd say as much as I love the C Series, it is in danger of joining this club
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:24 pm

Quoting ordell (Reply 4):
MD-11 and MD-95/717 should in this race hands down.

They both did far better than the Dassault Mercure, for example- only 12 were built.

Quoting litz (Reply 6):
how many (non-military) actually got working prototypes, but were never built?

Shanghai Y-10, anybody?  
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Photo © Taecoxu



Edit: Gah! Looks like I was beaten by three minutes.

[Edited 2016-02-10 14:25:59]

Edit 2: A few better examples: Avro Canada C-102 (I believe TWA/Howard Hughes expressed interest in it, but nothing ever came of it) and the Lockheed Saturn and Constitution


[Edited 2016-02-10 14:30:26]
Midwest Airlines- 1984-2010
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:34 pm

The Fairchild X28 series is a good candidate. One 728 was built but never flew.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
Prost
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:11 pm

Okay, I need to ask: What was the problem with the Fairchild 728? It looks E175 everyone is clamoring for now.
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:17 pm

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 13):
The Fairchild X28 series is a good candidate. One 728 was built but never flew.

Didn't they also have plans for a 428 Jet, basically a stretched 328?

In the 1990s, Boeing had serious plans to build the 747-500 and -600, and even had some interest, IIRC, from Asian carriers. However, the Asian Financial Crisis of the late 1990s, combined with a travel downturn associated with SARS, killed those plans. This allowed Airbus to gain some ground with their A3XX (A380). Boeing then had several aborted attempts at revamping the 747 before doing the 747-400ER and eventually the -8.
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ua900
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:21 pm

Quoting airboeingbus (Thread starter):
What aircraft does anybody know of that never made it in to commercial production or it's first flight? Also what are the reasons behind their fate?

A lot. In Germany alone the following were designed / intended as civilian planes and didn't get build as such due to military needs:

Focke-Wulf FW 300
Heinkel He 270 (only counting that one because it's a derivative of the He 70 and easily would have been commercial)
Heinkel He 111 (was originally intended as a passenger plane, though only two prototypes ever flew as civilian transports)
Messerschmitt Me 264 (started out as a civilian transatlantic concept in the 1930s)

Quoting litz (Reply 6):
Here's a better question ... how many (non-military) actually got working prototypes, but were never built?

Still quite a few. Baade 152 comes to mind plus:

ATG Javelin
Tupolew Tu-334
Vickers 663
Tupolew Tu-155 / 156
Avro Canada C-102
McDonnell 119/220
Avro 706 Ashton
Bede BD-5J
Viperjet
Diamond D-Jet
PiperJet
Excel Jet
Eclipse 400
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ua900
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:29 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 14):
Okay, I need to ask: What was the problem with the Fairchild 728? It looks E175 everyone is clamoring for now.

1. The factory ran out of money before any orders could be filled, causing cancellations of existing orders and uncertainly for potential orders  
2. Really bad timing:
a) Had the 728 come about before airlines were awash in CRJs, they might have had a chance.
b) Likewise, had fuel been a tad more expensive in 2001/2, it could have helped orders as well.
c) The CR2s were the gold standard for operators, and the CR7 filled the gap towards 100 passengers nicely for a while.
d) Passengers nowadays get spoiled with E75/E90s compared to the CR2/7, but in the 1990s/2000s they accepted the CRJs as lifelines to smaller communities.
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georgiaame
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:34 pm

Sigh, I still miss not being able to fly on the Sonic Cruiser, ATL-LHR shaving off 30 minutes of flying time. Truly a magnificent aircraft, decades either ahead or behind its time, I'm not sure which. Not to mention the 3 beauties that really should have been built, 747-500, 747-600, 747-700. Having flown on the -8(00), it's truly tragic that most of you will never get to fly on that dream. It's a beautiful aircraft, unbelievably comfortable and quiet. The Brabazon would have been interesting, but I would have been the screaming infant just behind first.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
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American 767
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:55 pm

Here are models as far as I know that never made it beyond the drawing board, not yet mentioned:

-The Boeing 727-300. Even though United and Braniff showed an interest. The reason for this must be Boeing's decision to go with an all new model (a then new airplane), the 757.

-The DC-10 Twin. One reason must be the tarnished reputation of the DC-10.

-The MD-12 which would have looked like an A380. Mc DD was about to be bought by Boeing.

-The Boeing 2707 which would have been the American Concorde. The project was way too expensive, though I could be wrong about that. Boeing was targeting Pan Am to launch it. Yes I know somebody mentioned SST above.


Here are models that were actually built, and flew, but sold poorly, not yet mentioned in this topic:

-The Boeing 247 had a tough time competing against Douglas successful DC-3. Only United ordered the 247.

-The DC-2. Not many were sold, I know TWA flew it, but it eventually lead to the successful DC-3 of which no less than 10000 were built including C-47s.

-The DC-5. Only KLM ordered it and not many were built.

-The Tupolev TU-144. Not too many were built and it didn't stay long in service with Aeroflot. The 1973 disaster at the Paris Air Show was probably not the main reason for its lack of success, but it didn't either make it easier for Tupolev to make of it the Russian competitor of the Concorde.

Ben Soriano
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Wingtips56
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:11 am

The Fairey Rotodyne
One built and flown.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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Adipasquale
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:31 am

You could add the DC-1, of which only one was built, but like the DC-2 as well, it paved the way for the very successful DC-3
Also, you could add the Bach Air Yacht, a plane very similar, albeit much less successful, than the Ford Trimotor, of which I believe there were maybe 20 produced.
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Ty134A
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:32 am

Quoting Q (Reply 2):
Transaero Airbus 321 but never made to first flight that Transaero went bankruptcy.

false, i worked on it once in vie, it flew some 20 times for UN!
TU3/5,T20,IL8/6/W/9,I14,YK4/2,AN2/4,A26,A28,A38,A40,A81,SU9,L4T,L11,D1C,M11,M80/2/7,
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jetblastdubai
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:36 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 19):
Here are models as far as I know that never made it beyond the drawing board, not yet mentioned:

Add the 787-3.

I'm still holding out for this model to make it off the drawing board and onto the assembly line. +/- 290 pax., 3,000 NM range and shortened wingspan to allow use of some domestic gates that 787-8/9/10 cannot squeeze into.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:42 am

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 23):
I'm still holding out for this model to make it off the drawing board and onto the assembly line

You might want to stop holding your breath before you run out of oxygen!
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32andBelow
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:57 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 19):
Only United ordered the 247.

Wasn't United and Boeing the same company at first?
 
airboeingbus
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:04 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):

Not concepts, ones that where actually built. Perfect example being something like the Fairchild Dornier 728 family
 
nomadd22
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:05 am

The Beech Starship doesn't exactly fit since they made a few and it was a small one, but it's the one I had a lot of hope for.
Anon
 
wzafar
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:08 am

Wonder what people's opinions are about the A340?
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:37 am

Saab 90 Scandia airliner.

Only 18 were built because Saab was ordered to concentrate 100% on building J-29 Tunnan fighters for the Swedish Air Force.

The last batch was transported half finished to The Netherlands for being finished by Fokker because Saab wasn't allowed to "waste time" on them. That may very well have influenced the design of the later and slightly larger Fokker F27 Friendship.

The 18 examples, which were built, served very well as airliners for up to 20 years in Sweden and Brazil.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
benjjk
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:41 am

Quoting wzafar (Reply 28):

Wonder what people's opinions are about the A340?

A good aircraft that suited the requirements of the time... unfortunately those requirements changed pretty quickly (ETOPS, fuel prices). It was made virtually obsolete by a strong A330 and even moreso by the unexpectedly strong 777.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:53 am

Douglas built a DC-4E of which only one was built before World War II and it was sold to the Japanese who bought it to see how it was built. Probably never saw any civilian use.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
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NYPECO
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:08 am

Fairchild Dornier 728

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View Large View Medium
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Devilfish
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting HomSAR (Reply 15):
Didn't they also have plans for a 428 Jet, basically a stretched 328?

They had a whole range planned from 428J to 928J.....

http://s018.radikal.ru/i521/1206/a3/d2693d852dc9.jpg
http://s018.radikal.ru/i521/1206/a3/d2693d852dc9.jpg

http://s017.radikal.ru/i403/1206/e4/64161ecc09f4.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i403/1206/e4/64161ecc09f4.jpg
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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NYPECO
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:42 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 33):

I have never seen a picture of that aircraft from the side before. The tail is way too far forward, and it ruins the look of the entire aircraft IMO.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:43 am

Quoting Adipasquale (Reply 21):
You could add the DC-1, of which only one was built,

The single DC-1 was never intended to be more than a one-off prototype. The production aircraft became the DC-2.

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 25):
Quoting American 767 (Reply 19):
Only United ordered the 247.

Wasn't United and Boeing the same company at first?

If not mistaken, Boeing refused to sell the 247 to any U.S. airlines other than UA due to Boeing's and UA's common ownership.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:03 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 19):
-The DC-2. Not many were sold,

Considering how small the airline industry was then, production of 198 DC-2s was fairly significant. Compare that, for example, with the 250 L-1011s built 40 to 50 years later.

All U.S. airlines combined carried just over 1 million passengers in 1936, the first year they broke the 1 million mark. They carry more than that today every 12 hours.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:19 am

Airbus 300

I don't mean A300B or A300-600, I mean the Airbus 300 which the French, British and West German governments agreed to make in 1967. An "air bus" for 300 passengers. A high capacity, short range, subsonic airliner to supplement the intercontinental range Concorde.

Soon it became apparent that RR put priority on the RB211 engine for the Lockheed Tristar, a scaled down version of the RB207 needed to power the Airbus 300.

When the RB211 ran into troubles, then there was no chance any longer that the RB207 would be available in any reasonable time.

The Airbus consortium had to scramble to a "plan-B". They salvaged what was possible of the Airbus 300 project, got a license to build Douglas DC-10 nacelles for GE CF6-50 engines, and it finally emerged as a smaller 250 pax plane.

It was by some referred to as Airbus 250, but the project name A300B stuck.

Almost 30 years later a modernized, longer range "Airbus 300" finally made it to the air with decently powerful Trent / CF6-80 / PW4000 engines. Now the name had changed to A330. It soon evolved into by far the most successful wide body Airbus.

[Edited 2016-02-10 19:49:02]
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:45 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 33):
They had a whole range planned from 428J to 928J.....


Looks like an A318 with an MD-11 nose.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
32andBelow
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:06 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 35):
If not mistaken, Boeing refused to sell the 247 to any U.S. airlines other than UA due to Boeing's and UA's common ownership.

I also believe UA demanded underpowered engines that were common with engines already in their fleet. This made the plane absolutely unable to compete with the DC-3? maybe, memory is fuzzy.
 
mark2fly1034
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:07 am

Cessna Skycatcher did not last long at all a rather odd LSA design
 
citationjet
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:14 am

Quoting airboeingbus (Thread starter):
What aircraft does anybody know of that never made it in to commercial production or it's first flight?

Most examples cited had a first flight and some even went into commercial production.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:27 am

Quoting ACD8Y (Reply 8):
Bristol Brabazon

This plane did do its first flight. Just too late to be viable as everyone went to jets.
 
SabrePilot
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:37 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 10):

Bristol Brabazon

LOL I totally read Bristol Palin. I almost spit my soup out!
 
Aircellist
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:39 am

Sadly, there is still a chance for the CSeries to join that list in short order…
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Viscount724
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:41 am

Another that never went beyond the prototype stage was the Learjet 85. Only 2 prototypes built before Bombardier cancelled it in an effort to stem their massive losses.
http://www.kansas.com/news/business/aviation/article41786862.html
 
Viscount724
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:50 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 39):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 35):
If not mistaken, Boeing refused to sell the 247 to any U.S. airlines other than UA due to Boeing's and UA's common ownership.

I also believe UA demanded underpowered engines that were common with engines already in their fleet. This made the plane absolutely unable to compete with the DC-3? maybe, memory is fuzzy.

The Boeing 247 was obsolete by the time the DC-3 went into service.
 
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Pilawt
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:53 am

Breda-Zappata BZ.308 -- one built, first flown in 1948. It looked something like a Lockheed Constellation, but with an 'H'-form tail instead of the Connie's three vertical surfaces. The BZ.308 was operated by the Italian Air Force and soon scrapped, but not before it was featured in the Audrey Hepburn movie Roman Holiday.

Then there was the Douglas DC-4E, also only one built, and first flown in 1938. It proved too large and complex for US airlines of the day, and none were ordered. The prototype was sold to Imperial Japanese Airways, and ironically was reverse-engineered and served as the basis for the Nakajima G5N bomber -- also unsuccessful.

Despite the similar name, the later DC-4/C-54 was an entirely new design.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:04 am

Douglas DC-7 Seven Seas and Lockheed L-1649 Starliner!!!   
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Planes That Never Had A Chance.

Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:07 am

The Avro Jetliner.

1st Flight- Aug 10, 1949.
The Comet beat it by only 13 days.
Designed to Trans Canada specs.
Howard Hughes "borrowed" it.

Many American airports were concerned that the jets would melt the asphalt runways.
Many airlines had just made major purchases of turboprop airliners so there was no demand.

It was put on the back burner to allow for the design and production of the CF-100

Sadly, it was ahead of its time.

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Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos