ScottB
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:49 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 8):
The question is, will WN take these slots? They were looking for 9, but were only awarded 4. They could very easily say thanks but no thanks to the slots if they don't think 4 flights are worth opening a new city.

While they requested all nine of the new slots, I'd be a bit surprised if they expected to get all of them. B6 has agitated for more slots and for modifications to the slot ordinance so that E190s could operate with commuter slots, so one might expect them to request more -- and the fact that they continue to slot-sit indicates that they want to retain control of as many slots as possible.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Mere 4 flights per day hardly lends itself to much schedule competitiveness in LA-Bay area market, nor does it provide for much cost efficiency in regards to station staffing and overhead.

True but it would be easily competitive with the 3x daily service B6 offers to either OAK or SFO.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
WN would probably be smart to run 4x to OAK, but that's only if the goal is to make the most money.

   I think the dark horse would be LAS given that there's fairly strong O&D to Lost Wages and a lot of connectivity available at LAS.
 
westindian425
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:52 pm

It's not that JetBlue is squatting on the LGB slots; JetBlue has been begging the city council to allow them to do international flights out of LGB, but have been facing such resistance from the community. I'm surprised more slots are awarded when the people are complaining of noise.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
deltairlines
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:07 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 15):
My guess is Delta adds SEA,

Keep in mind that the slots that Delta won are for the higher-weight slots. Delta has two of these now (and uses them on a pair of CRJ-900s), and then uses between 2-3 of the lower weight slots on CRJ-700 runs (which can fit into this category and there are plenty of these slots available).

My guess is Delta will use these new slots to SLC and upgauge capacity on it. If Delta wanted to add SEA, they could easily do so with a CRJ-700 today.
 
airliner371
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting n562wn (Reply 29):
Hmm, why did WN and B6, try to make an agreement outside of the current pilot contract to allow "distressed" passengers to fly on each other's metal? Why the drastic change in language about subsets and redeye flying in the failed TA with the pilots? Why the sudden interest in a whopping 4 slots at LGB after all these years? Just greasing the skids for the B6/WN merger.. Nothing more to see here.

In all seriousness, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
 
a380787
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:40 pm

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 51):
It's not that JetBlue is squatting on the LGB slots; JetBlue has been begging the city council to allow them to do international flights out of LGB, but have been facing such resistance from the community. I'm surprised more slots are awarded when the people are complaining of noise.

Never understand why people purposely live close to the airport then complain about the noise. And it's not like B6 would be bringing in roaring loud Mad Dogs into LGB ever.
 
peanuts
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:41 pm

Maybe WN will surprise us and launch Hawaii from LGB.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:47 pm

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 51):
I'm surprised more slots are awarded when the people are complaining of noise.

Airport has a noise formula that determines the number of slots. Per the latest review the cumulative noise budget allowed for more slots, so airport was required to issue them.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 54):
Never understand why people purposely live close to the airport then complain about the noise.

You don't have to live near an airport to experience the noise and negative effects such as added ground traffic and pollution that come along with it.
Look at LAX where communities such as Westchester had residents long before the field turned from largely agriculture land into a global mega airport.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:30 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 56):
Look at LAX where communities such as Westchester had residents long before the field turned from largely agriculture land into a global mega airport.

How many of those residents are still alive today? Not many. Almost anyone living there today moved there knowing full well that LAX was a busy airport.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:35 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 57):
How many of those residents are still alive today? Not many. Almost anyone living there today moved there knowing full well that LAX was a busy airport.

It does not really matter. Land use and zoning is something guided by community. Whether a factory, a hotel, or airport is compatible with community can and does change over time.
Communities hold the right to shape their futures and regulate activities via things like zoning and land use laws.

So if the residents of Long Beach, Santa Monica or any other community in America want their airports to change, over time they will succeed. Already much of the land of LGB is being reallocated to other non-aviation uses based on desire of the city and residents.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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hispanola
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:18 pm

Both B6 and WN need to stop being so lazy and find a way to fly from LGB/SNA to either IAD/DCA/BWI. The fact that Washington is only connected to the Los Angeles area through LAX seems ridiculous to me. There is a plethora of airports on either end, and to have everything concentrated on LAX is such a missed opportunity. JetBlue used to fly from IAD to LGB before they shifted their focus onto DCA. SNA has even said that they would like to have a flight to the D.C. area.

When I lived in Washington D.C. the local residents would complain about having to go to LAX. If the Los Angelinos can choose between three airports, why shouldn't the Washingtonians get a second option? Over here in Europe the low cost carriers take advantage of secondary airports and the people enjoy it. WN and B6 could learn a lesson from FR and U2.
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N1120A
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:39 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 43):
jetBlue has never served Atlanta from any location.

Very incorrect.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 51):

It's not that JetBlue is squatting on the LGB slots; JetBlue has been begging the city council to allow them to do international flights out of LGB, but have been facing such resistance from the community.

LGB would need and FIS.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 51):
I'm surprised more slots are awarded when the people are complaining of noise.

There is a legal mechanism based on noise levels. With all Stage 3 and 4 aircraft, there is no way around it.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 56):
Look at LAX where communities such as Westchester had residents long before the field turned from largely agriculture land into a global mega airport.

Oh please. Typical NIMBY. The airport was first built and emerged even more well before the area was anything resembling heavily populated.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
airliner371
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:43 pm

Quoting hispanola (Reply 59):
need to stop being so lazy

Lazy? Seriously? smh.

Quoting hispanola (Reply 59):
Over here in Europe the low cost carriers take advantage of secondary airports and the people enjoy it. WN and B6 could learn a lesson from FR and U2.

WN started the whole, "LCCs serve secondary airports" so no, I don't think they need to do any learning from FR or U2.
 
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hispanola
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:00 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 61):

You're absolutely correct about that! Southwest is the one to thank for the LCC model and strategy. Though there may have been some similar carriers in the US at the time of their founding, no one has influenced the industry (in this way) as much as WN has. Perhaps they just need to be more agressive when it comes to opening up new markets. They don't appear to have as much energy as FR does.

These two companies must have their reasons for avoiding this connection. I'm just perplexed because there is genuine interest in such a route.
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JBAirwaysFan
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:45 am

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 4):
I wonder if WN will bother starting service with only four daily flights. When was the last time they started that low in any non-FL market?

Pretty sure MSP started that way. LGA started with 7.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
wnflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:08 am

[quote=JBAirwaysFan,reply=63][/quote

MSP started with 8 daily flights to MDW only!

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
AAflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:08 am

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 51):

JetBlue is absolutely squatting on slots at LGB. And it is likely to do the same with the new slots. The City has approved a study for an FIS so will be interesting to see what happens.

AAflyguy
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:35 am

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 51):
It's not that JetBlue is squatting on the LGB slots; JetBlue has been begging the city council to allow them to do international flights out of LGB, but have been facing such resistance from the community. I'm surprised more slots are awarded when the people are complaining of noise

Do buy corporate speak. B6 is begging to serve international markets from an airport with no international terminal? They started service there and took slots knowing that it was a domestic airport. Relinquish the slots if you aren't prepared to used them.

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 65):
JetBlue is absolutely squatting on slots at LGB. And it is likely to do the same with the new slots. The City has approved a study for an FIS so will be interesting to see what happens.

Correct. They will squat until WN wants them...then they won't
 
wnflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:37 am

IF WN were to do just LAS service with 4 times a day using a 737-800 175 seats each flight.
I can see a schudule like this.
Using Southwest.com and flight Status.com these are the possible connections avalible.
LAS would connect about 75% of there Network VS running 2 OAK,1 DEN and 1 LAS which only connects 45%


LGB-LAS
06:50 am-08:10 am with possible of 44 connecting options
10:55 am-12:05 pm with possible of 36 connecting options
02:55 pm-04:05 pm with possible of 40 connecting options
06:55 pm-08:05 pm with possible of 19 connecting options

LAS-LGB
08:55 am-10:05 am with possible of 23 inbound connecting options
12:55 pm-02:05 pm with possible of 61 inbound connecting options
04:55 pm-06:05 pm with possible of 60 inbound connecting options
09:30 pm-10:40 pm with possible of 72 inbound connecting options

Aircraft flow.
06:50 am-08:10 am LGB-LAS

45 min turn

08:55 am-10:05 am LAS-LGB

45 min turn

10:55 am-12:05 am LGB-LAS

50 min turn

12:55 pm-02:05 pm LAS-LGB

45 min turn

02:55 pm-04:05 pm LGB-LAS

45 min turn

04:55 pm-06:05 pm LAS-LGB

45 min turn

06:55 pm-08:05 pm LGB-LAS

1:25 min turn

09:30 pm-10:40 pm LAS-LGB

speculation is fun hope you enjoy my guesses!

flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
IPFreely
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:47 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 8):
On the other hand, WN has changed over the years, especially since the merger. They have several cities with only 4 or fewer flights to 1-2 destinations.

Most of the WN cities with 4 or fewer daily flights are failing operations and their days of having WN service are numbered:

CAK
DAY
DSM
FNT
GRR
GSP
ICT
RIC
ROC

Why would they want to add LGB to that list?
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:51 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 67):
Aircraft flow.
06:50 am-08:10 am LGB-LAS
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 67):
09:30 pm-10:40 pm LAS-LGB

All airline operations must be scheduled between 7am-10pm.
Operations between 10pm-11pm are allowed if the delays were caused by weather, air traffic, or mechanical issues.
After 11pm the full noise restrictions kick in which mean a defacto curfew as virtually any aircraft beyond GA exceed noise limits.

[Edited 2016-02-11 21:54:11]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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FedExFlyerPHL
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting Reply 48):

With LAX and SNA getting closer to capacity, it makes sense for WN to serve LGB in the long term.

It will be interesting to see how B6 defends its request for additional slots. By my count, the last day they operated all 32 of their slots was September 2, 2012. Their summer 2016 schedule only shows a max of 26 departures (on some days).

Fun trivia:
On 9/2/2012 they operated
1x ANC, AUS, BOS, IAD
2x JFK
3x SEA, SFO, SLC, SMF
4x OAK, PDX
5x LAS
Today 2/11/2016
1x BOS, AUS
2x SMF, SEA, PDX, JFK
3x SLC, SFO, OAK, LAS

ANC is a seasonal route, so that does come back in the spring. It does seem to me that these routes do fluctuate seasonally. Like someone mentioned earlier, they probably utilize most of their slots in the summer and less in the winter. I think it would be nice for them to bring FLL and or MCO back. (Have they done MCO n/s before?).

As for Delta, I feel that ATL or MSP would be great connectors into their system. Not sure if they need more SLC flights. They do throw in A319s on that route in the summers.

I am interested to see what WN might do.
Home base: SNA, LGB, LAX
 
westindian425
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:54 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 66):
Do buy corporate speak. B6 is begging to serve international markets from an airport with no international terminal? They started service there and took slots knowing that it was a domestic airport. Relinquish the slots if you aren't prepared to used them.

The fact that WN fought long and hard to start international flights out of HOU and DAL is good enough reason for me to buy corporate speak.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
wnflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:59 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 69):
AUS

6:50am push to get a 7:00am take off time for best arrival time into LAS for connections.
In LGB hey day like SNA down the road they would push prior to 7:00am and line up wait for the clock to strike 07:00 am.

I forgot LGB unlike SNA is 07:00 am- 10:00 PM for both arrivals and departures. ( SNA allows arrivals until 11:00pm)

So looking at early 737-800 RONs in LAS the could easily just make one of the 3 737-800 flights a Thru flight to LGB.
With a arrival time around 09:30pm. This would cut the inbound connecting options to around 51 VS 72.
This would also make more since for Aircraft Scheduled MX planning.

Thanks for the response.

I looked at the same type of schedule if they did 4 flights to PHX but there was less Network connecting options in PHX vs LAS.

The only better network connecting options I found was if WN did 2 OAK and 2 DEN.
With 2 WN RON aircraft in LGB every night.
One aircraft would do LGB-OAK-LGB-DEN-LGB-OAK-LGB the second aircraft Would do something like LGB-DEN-RIC-DEN-LGB .

Flyguy

[Edited 2016-02-12 08:24:00]
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
a380787
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 68):

CAK
DAY
DSM
FNT
GRR
GSP
ICT
RIC
ROC

All of which could survive if WN had a smaller frame, say 90-100 seater, at their disposal. There are markets that simply aren't optimal for the 737 regardless of brand recognition or pricing.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 72):
One aircraft would do LGB-OAK-LGB-DEN-LGB-OAK-LGB the second aircraft Would do something like LGB-DEN-RIC-DEN-LGB .

Seriously doubt that there would be dedicated a/c to service LGB.
Benefit would be better scheduling of LGB flights, even with your 4x LAS. Arr into LAS could be 8am with LAS dep to LGB at 730am, etc.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
airliner371
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:15 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 68):

WN is doing fine in many of those stations. You can just make up doom and gloom for the sake of drama. All indications are WN is doing well in most of those cities.
 
wnflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:20 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 74):

On average first early morning departures west before 08:00am from LAS have a horrible load factor without a inbound connecting feed.

So I wouldn't bet on anything early into LGB from LAS,OAK or PHX.
I think they would Schudule for the most bang for the buck with only 4 flights.

But that's just my opinion.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
travelin man
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:27 pm

WN dominates intra-CA traffic. I still would be shocked if they didn't serve OAK from LGB, regardless if B6 is already on the route.
 
SKC
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:39 am

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 74):
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 72):
One aircraft would do LGB-OAK-LGB-DEN-LGB-OAK-LGB the second aircraft Would do something like LGB-DEN-RIC-DEN-LGB .

Seriously doubt that there would be dedicated a/c to service LGB.
Benefit would be better scheduling of LGB flights, even with your 4x LAS. Arr into LAS could be 8am with LAS dep to LGB at 730am, etc.

I agree, highly unlikely to dedicate an aircraft to just LGB. Out of 650 some odd lines of flying, there's probably less than 10 that operate similar out and back routes.

[Edited 2016-02-12 19:23:34]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SabrePilot
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:52 am

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 74):
Seriously doubt that there would be dedicated a/c to service LGB.
Benefit would be better scheduling of LGB flights, even with your 4x LAS. Arr into LAS could be 8am with LAS dep to LGB at 730am, etc.

I completely agree with you. If a plane takes a mechanical then the line is dead till the plane comes back up. It is easier to spread the dead plane across a few cities and the it is easier to catch back up and get all your pax to their destination without adding an additional flight.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:36 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 76):
On average first early morning departures west before 08:00am from LAS have a horrible load factor without a inbound connecting feed.

I was just an example.

If it were me, I would have as deps
0700 DAL
0750 MDW
1000 DEN
1500 DEN

with arr

0930 DEN
1420 MDW
2040 DAL
2145 DEN
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
wnflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:49 am

This is a OAK & DEN


LGB-OAK
06:50 am-08:20 am
05:05 pm-06:25 pm
OAK-LGB
09:00 am-10:20 am
08:00 pm-09:20 pm
LGB-DEN
07:30 am-10:45 am
11:00am-02:15 am
DEN-LGB
03:00 pm-04:30 pm
08:00 pm-09:00 pm


Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
alfa164
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:01 am

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 71):
The fact that WN fought long and hard to start international flights out of HOU and DAL is good enough reason for me to buy corporate speak.

HOU, yes. DAL; no international flights, no request for international routes; no request for FIS at DAL.
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AAlaxfan
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:39 am

If I'm WN, I'm announcing daily DIRECT flights to MDW, BOS, FLL and BWI with my routing looking like this:

MDW-LAS-LGB-LAS-MDW
BOS-DEN-LGB-DEN-BOS
BWI-MCI-LGB-MCI-BWI
FLL-HOU-LGB-HOU-FLL

Push DIRECT flights to Chicago and the east coast. Catering, fuel and crews done in LAS, DEN, MCI and HOU.
Timing:
Arrivals Departures
11:30a 12:15p
12:45p 01:30p
02:00p 02:45p
03:15p 04:00p

Staff works one shift from 10:00a - 05:00p
My 2 cents.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
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RWA380
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:22 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):
It appears that AS has no intention of resuming LGB-SEA even with the E175s.

I think Mr Tilden stated that AS would not return to Long Beach. I think with B6 & their EMB aircraft, LGB is a locked in market. It's odd how AS lost this one route, must not be very high yield. Last time I flew to LGB was on AS on an M80 & the flight stopped in SFO both ways.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):
If DL were to add SEA-LGB that would give them a domestic destination from SEA that AS doesn't serve.

You are correct, but more like a crow feather. If a solid based & well liked carrier can not make this route work, even with E-175 economics & oil at under $30 a barrel, I can not wait to see DL add 3 flights a day & watch them drop one by one.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 30):
I see DL adding 1 ATL and 1 SEA flight.

IMHO, DL would be dumb to use a LGB slot to SEA, if AS can't make it work, DL won't either. B6 has a loyal LGB flyer base & SEA a big AS flyer base. Oh yeah, International connections, how can I forget, that'll fill those planes right up.   

Quoting peanuts (Reply 55):
Maybe WN will surprise us and launch Hawaii from LGB

That would certainly be interesting, but loyal WN fliers from the greater Southland area, would be rather unlikely to drive to LGB to fly to Hawaii. But 73G's to SNA & 800's to LGB & Quoting IPFreely (Reply 68):
Why would they want to add LGB to that list?
LGB being in the greater Los Angeles area makes LGB slots perfect sense, as many as possible. There is gong to be a day when LAX & SNA are maxed out & airports like LGB, BUR will end up taking the majority of growth for the area. This is not today, but if there are limited slots, wouldn't it make sense for WN to have as many slots as possible given their position in Califirnia aviation currently?

[Edited 2016-02-13 01:24:24]
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
wnflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:07 pm

LGB-OAK
06:50 am-08:20 am
02:30 pm-03:50 pm
07:00 pm-08:20 pm

OAK-LGB
08:50 am-10:10 am
05:00 pm-06:20 pm
08:00 pm-09:20 pm

LGB-MDW
11:00 am-05:05 pm

MDW-LGB
11:10 am-01:45 pm

Here's how I think OAK & MDW service would work out.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
usflyguy
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:09 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 16):
I'm going to go with 2SFO 1DEN And 1 LAS.

Aircraft flow LGB-SFO-LGB-LAS-LGB-DEN-LGB-SFO-LGB
All 737-800

Flights to/from SFO intra CA generally do this along with the 735's in Texas, but that's about it.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 68):
Most of the WN cities with 4 or fewer daily flights are failing operations and their days of having WN service are numbered:

CAK
DAY
DSM
FNT
GRR
GSP
ICT
RIC
ROC

Why would they want to add LGB to that list?

Beside having 4 flights a day, what does LGB have in common with these airports? WN carries more passengers in CA than any other carrier, I'm sure they can make 4 flights a day out of LGB work.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6694
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:59 am

Quoting hispanola (Reply 59):
Both B6 and WN need to stop being so lazy and find a way to fly from LGB/SNA to either IAD/DCA/BWI. The fact that Washington is only connected to the Los Angeles area through LAX seems ridiculous to me.

It's not ridiculous given the distance involved and the overall size of the market between WAS/BWI and the L.A. metro. The service concentrates at LAX because it is the largest, most-in-demand airport which can offer the greatest frequency to WAS. The demand exists for one or two daily non-stops from the secondary SoCal airports to IAD or BWI, but the yields are typically weak because the schedule ends up being inconvenient. Beyond-perimeter non-stops to DCA are restricted.

And WN's specialization is in short-haul travel so it's relatively unusual that they serve a longer route like LAX-BWI.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 84):
There is gong to be a day when LAX & SNA are maxed out & airports like LGB, BUR will end up taking the majority of growth for the area. This is not today, but if there are limited slots, wouldn't it make sense for WN to have as many slots as possible given their position in Califirnia aviation currently?

The slot restrictions at LGB will prevent any truly meaningful growth at that airport, and local opposition to a new terminal at BUR makes growth there virtually impossible. The only airport in the region which will be able to grow is ONT.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:11 am

Quoting N776AU (Reply 37):

Delta used to fly LGB-ATL didn't they?

No. I do believe they added ATL-BUR when B6 came into ATL. (possibly ATL-OAK, not sure if they were flying to OAK at the time from ATL or just SFO/SJC)

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 51):

It's not that JetBlue is squatting on the LGB slots; JetBlue has been begging the city council to allow them to do international flights out of LGB, but have been facing such resistance from the community. I'm surprised more slots are awarded when the people are complaining of noise.

I agree that the regional slot/mainline slot thing is very stupid and a huge waste of time(even dumber to me is that the CR7 uses the same engine that the CR9/E70/E75/E90/E95 uses (CF34))

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 52):

My guess is Delta will use these new slots to SLC and upgauge capacity on it. If Delta wanted to add SEA, they could easily do so with a CRJ-700 today.

I think this is what will happen, but I think we will see SEA-LBG with a E75 or maybe CR9 if it happens. I think the plan is, overtime, the CR7s will move away from SEA and replace CRJs at SLC.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 56):

You don't have to live near an airport to experience the noise and negative effects such as added ground traffic and pollution that come along with it.
Look at LAX where communities such as Westchester had residents long before the field turned from largely agriculture land into a global mega airport.

ah gotta love that SoCal logic. Try to hurt the economy as much as possible.
 
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FedExFlyerPHL
Posts: 111
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:58 pm

DL could also use the 717 which has replaced a lot of the E175s on the LAX regional routes. I would think it could rotate back into the network pretty easily in SEA.
Home base: SNA, LGB, LAX
 
icebird757
Posts: 421
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:31 pm

Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 34):
How does the airport decide who to allocate slots to? Why would they give more to jetBlue who is squatting on slots and shrinking their operation? Just curious...

WN got 2 slots for being a new entrant. Then the rest of the slots were raffled off. JetBlue could have easily received 0 or 7 of the remaining slots. Luck of the draw.

JetBlue is not squatting on slots, they are using each slot on a rotational basis just like Allegiant did when they last served LGB. Maybe JetBlue is not running all 32 flights, but this is a business so running less flights to make money does make sense rather than running 32 flights and loose money on a bunch of the flights.
LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:52 pm

Can DL lease their slots to WN? If so perhaps part of the DAL gate drama deal?
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
Shocking that WN wants to open a station with so few flights. I suppose OAK, LAS or PHX are the most likely candidates.

LGB-LAS. There's business for everyone.

When I've flown it on B6 the plane was packed.
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:03 am

Quoting icebird757 (Reply 90):
Then the rest of the slots were raffled off. JetBlue could have easily received 0 or 7 of the remaining slots. Luck of the draw.

That's incorrect. LB allotment system whereby a slot award winner sits out the next round. As such it would have been impossible for either B6 or WN to gain all the slots.

Quoting icebird757 (Reply 90):
JetBlue is not squatting on slots, they are using each slot on a rotational basis just like Allegiant did when they last served LGB. Maybe JetBlue is not running all 32 flights, but this is a business so running less flights to make money does make sense rather than running 32 flights and loose money on a bunch of the flights.

Its well documented how B6 minimizes slot usage with as low as 20 departures per day. Crankyflier had a good story detailing how B6 has sad on an albeit legally come no where close to using its allotment in recent couple years.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 91):
Can DL lease their slots to WN? If so perhaps part of the DAL gate drama deal?

Slot authorities cannot be sold, traded, leased etc. Only exception is for regional affiliates.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ont 737
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 93):
Quoting icebird757 (Reply 90):
JetBlue is not squatting on slots, they are using each slot on a rotational basis just like Allegiant did when they last served LGB. Maybe JetBlue is not running all 32 flights, but this is a business so running less flights to make money does make sense rather than running 32 flights and loose money on a bunch of the flights.

Its well documented how B6 minimizes slot usage with as low as 20 departures per day. Crankyflier had a good story detailing how B6 has sad on an albeit legally come no where close to using its allotment in recent couple years.

My definition of squatting (and I would think most on the forum would agree) is under utilizing a limited resource in an effort to keep a competitor from using it. Squatting does not mean that something is actually illegal, its just a business strategy. Yes, JetBlue is operating inside the usage requirements, however, it is still squatting. JetBlue has not fully utilized their slots for a few years and doesn't seem to have a plan for it in the future (baring an international terminal at LGB).

Its likely no one cared because demand for LGB slots was low. However, at the end of the year if Southwest (or whoever) is wanting more slots and JetBlue is still operating ~22 daily flights while holding 35 slots, I bet we see a change in the utilization requirement.
 
ScottB
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:57 pm

Quoting Reply 94):
However, at the end of the year if Southwest (or whoever) is wanting more slots and JetBlue is still operating ~22 daily flights while holding 35 slots, I bet we see a change in the utilization requirement.

I'm not sure that's possible if the utilization requirement is written into the noise ordinance. The City has been extremely wary of making any changes to the noise ordinance (like increasing the MTOW allowed for commuter slots for B6's benefit) lest they lose their grandfathered right to impose local slot restrictions on the airport.

I took a quick read through the ordinance and the specific utilization requirements don't seem to be incorporated so it may well be possible for the City to change policy. I'm not sure they actually would, though, considering that B6 is their largest carrier (and has been for over a decade); a negative reaction from B6 might well leave the airport with very little service again.
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:04 pm

B6 under utilizing its slots probably is a positive thing in the eyes of the community. The less activity at airport means less vehicle traffic, less pollution and less noise, all good things for many LB residents.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ont 737
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 96):

B6 under utilizing its slots probably is a positive thing in the eyes of the community. The less activity at airport means less vehicle traffic, less pollution and less noise, all good things for many LB residents.

Same comments could be made for the C-17 plant closing.
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:56 am

Quoting hispanola (Reply 59):
Both B6 and WN need to stop being so lazy and find a way to fly from LGB/SNA to either IAD/DCA/BWI. The fact that Washington is only connected to the Los Angeles area through LAX seems ridiculous to me. There is a plethora of airports on either end, and to have everything concentrated on LAX is such a missed opportunity. JetBlue used to fly from IAD to LGB before they shifted their focus onto DCA. SNA has even said that they would like to have a flight to the D.C. area.

TWA used to fly BWI-STL-SNA with 757s. As far as I know, no one actually flew to whole route. Most passengers connected to another destination in St Louis.

It's rumored that Aloha Airlines was trying to extend their SNA-HNL route eastward to DCA. But they ceased operations before they ever got the slots.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5523
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RE: 3 Airlines Awarded New LGB Slots

Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:24 am

B6 flew LGB-IAD.

Like many of their routes from LGB and IAD, it was a loser and has since been axed.

I think you guys are creating a competition at LGB that doesn't exist.

Sure, WN entering LGB may be a kick in the rear to B6 and make it use all of its slots. But I can just as easily see B6 walking away from LGB at anytime.

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