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_AA_777_MAN
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ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:18 pm

ORD will finally start building one A380 gate at T5 for use later this summer. Article mentions EK and BA have offered interest in flying the type into ORD.

The question is who will be first? Can they both do it? They would probably have to modify their schedule. Under the current schedule I believe they would overlap as BA 294 a 744 departs at 17:10, EK 235 arrives around 15:00 and EK 236 departs around 19:40. BA 297 arrives around 18:00 and departs as 296 around 21:00. Also would BA replace the 747 or the 777?


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ng-gate-for-massive-a380-airplanes
 
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Miami
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:31 pm

Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Thread starter):

Who will be first? Emirates. No question.

I don't see BA because they don't have enough.
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tjwgrr
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:15 pm

Quoting miami (Reply 2):
Who will be first? Emirates. No question.

I don't see BA because they don't have enough.


LH possibly, if not likely.

This upcoming peak season LH shows FRA-ORD operating the 748 2x per day along with UA's 2x 772 per day.
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
ZEDZAG
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 3):
LH possibly, if not likely.

This upcoming peak season LH shows FRA-ORD operating the 748 2x per day along with UA's 2x 772 per day.

Problem with LH is that they operate out of T1, so move to T5 would be neccesary
 
_AA_777_MAN
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:13 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 2):

LH flew 2x 748 last Summer as well. IMO LH will not fly the 380 to ORD until T1 is capable of handling the aircraft.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:41 pm

Curious, is there anywhere with scheduled A380 ops where they just utilize a normal gate or double-gate, and not the 2story construct?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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HALtheAI
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:45 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
Curious, is there anywhere with scheduled A380 ops where they just utilize a normal gate or double-gate, and not the 2story construct?

AF sends an A380 to ABJ, and they don't seem to have an upper-deck jetbridge: http://www.adelte.com/es/news-events...omodo-seguro-abiyan-pasajeros-a380.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 am

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 6):
AF sends an A380 to ABJ, and they don't seem to have an upper-deck jetbridge:

Interesting.

I figured at some point we'd start seeing airports that don't expect more than a single A380 or so, to just offer a dual jetbridge operation, and have the carrier schedule longer turnaround (assuming taxiways are up tot he job).

Makes more sense than spending all the money on gates for a single flight.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
elbandgeek
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:07 am

This part of the article made me laugh a lot.

"Two firms—Emirates and British Airways—have expressed interest in using their A380s on routes involving O'Hare, the person said, though which routes would get the A380s couldn't be determined"

I would guess maybe DXB and LHR
 
globalcabotage
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:42 am

ORD would not be building a 380 gate unless someone asked for it. I'm guessing EK, BA, LH, or QR. EY doesn't have many (well neither do LH or BA), KE dropped the 748, AF not a chance in hell, QF as a tag to DFW or LAX (I wish, but not happening).
 
N415XJ
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:50 am

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 8):
DXB and LHR

Nah, Fujairah-ORD by EK and Tiree-ORD by BA!

On a serious note, has EK actually expressed interest publicly in serving ORD with the 380, or is that just speculation?
 
_AA_777_MAN
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:11 am

My guess is that BA 295 goes to a year round A380 replacing the 747. And BA 297 stays 77W for summer and a 772 winter.
 
CXfirst
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:58 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 10):
On a serious note, has EK actually expressed interest publicly in serving ORD with the 380, or is that just speculation?

Don't think they need to express interest publicly to show interest. They have shown interest in A380s to all large US ports, and ORD is definitely one of them for the future.

-CXfirst
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:28 am

I recall a thread some months back, where various members were adamant in explaining how ORD could never build an A380 gate....
 
jcwr56
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:41 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 13):
I recall a thread some months back, where various members were adamant in explaining how ORD could never build an A380 gate....

Completion by July 1st, and there's there's room for a 2nd gate if the demand warrants it. The caveat to getting this built was that no 380 operator could schedule a flight where it impacts grandfathered flights. This also includes the use of the hardstand area in the event it needs to tow off due to ground time.

This pretty much means anyone will need to arrival and depart between 2200-1200 locally daily that wants to fly it in.
 
airbazar
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:33 pm

Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Thread starter):
The question is who will be first? Can they both do it? They would probably have to modify their schedule. Under the current schedule I believe they would overlap as BA 294 a 744 departs at 17:10, EK 235 arrives around 15:00 and EK 236 departs around 19:40. BA 297 arrives around 18:00 and departs as 296 around 21:00. Also would BA replace the 747 or the 777?

They wouldn't need to modify the schedule. I don't believe these flights sit at the gate for 3-4 hours. They should all move to a remote stand after offloading and until departure.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 14):
This pretty much means anyone will need to arrival and depart between 2200-1200 locally daily that wants to fly it in.

That makes no sense. Why invest the money in building a piece of infrastructure and not let it be used? None of the potential interested airlines operate at those times from ORD and I just don't see them changing their schedule to operate at those times.
 
jcwr56
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:38 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
That makes no sense. Why invest the money in building a piece of infrastructure and not let it be used? None of the potential interested airlines operate at those times from ORD and I just don't see them changing their schedule to operate at those times.

It doesn't have to make sense, that's the way it is and agreed too. It's just not about these two carriers mentioned in the article. It's also about ORD not having the facility to handle a 380 diversion. There can be zero impact to other airlines if a 380 wants to be operated. Moving the 380 to the hardstand will use two of the 4, anyone who knows the summer schedules and works at T5 understands all 4 are being used at one point during peak times.

The gate itself can be used by anyone and given the nature of the duel bridge, everyone will want to use it throughout the day.

The bridge was built for the airport not for a specific airline to tie up for hours on end. The airline will have to make the accommodation, not the other carriers.
 
jayunited
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:44 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 14):
Completion by July 1st, and there's there's room for a 2nd gate if the demand warrants it. The caveat to getting this built was that no 380 operator could schedule a flight where it impacts grandfathered flights. This also includes the use of the hardstand area in the event it needs to tow off due to ground time.

This pretty much means anyone will need to arrival and depart between 2200-1200 locally daily that wants to fly it in.

You are absolutely correct.

A380 operations at ORD will be limited to specific times simply because the wingspan of the A380 would at the very least render at least one adjacent gate out of service. Depending on where the lead in line is place there could be two gates out of service. From mid spring to late fall during the busy rush hour periods ORD's T5 can not afford to have one or two gates out of service even if they were to tow the A380 off the gate to a hard stand it would still be occupying the gate for at least 45 minutes to an hour before it could be towed and I don't think ORD will start parking live inbound trips at hardstands and deplaning passengers at hardstands to makeup for out of service gates. ORD can not afford that type of disruption and inconvenience to other airlines that would need those adjacent gates and I don't think the city is going to invest in buses to shuttle passenger back and forth between a hardstand and the terminal.

I glad ORD is finally modifying a gate to accommodate the A380 but you are absolutely correct any airline that wishes to send their A380 to ORD will have to amend its schedule because I seriously doubt you will see an A380 arriving or departing T5 during the busy rush hour period.
 
jcwr56
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:14 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 17):
A380 operations at ORD will be limited to specific times simply because the wingspan of the A380 would at the very least render at least one adjacent gate out of service. Depending on where the lead in line is place there could be two gates out of service.

Actually no adjoining gates will be impacted, but the ground time for these flights will be the driving factor. During Summer '16, BA295/294 and EK235/236 would not be able to run with a A380 as both get pulled to the hardstand. There's no option to reduce as other carriers operations are built around those.

EK could add a 2nd morning flight in with the 380 and still operate the 77W. BA could operate 297/296 as it's ground time would allow for it. So perhaps it's not 2200 but close enough...
 
jayunited
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:20 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 18):
Actually no adjoining gates will be impacted,

Oh okay. Wowthat great new which gate did they decided to reconfigure for the A380?
 
bobdino
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:25 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 17):
ORD can not afford that type of disruption and inconvenience to other airlines that would need those adjacent gates and I don't think the city is going to invest in buses to shuttle passenger back and forth between a hardstand and the terminal.

Why not? Bus gates are a normal part of operation at LHR and DXB, amongst other airports of comparable size. From personal experience, a bus gate adds about 15mins to the time needed for a connection. A handful of fancy buses isn't going to break the bank.
 
nyc2theworld
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting bobdino (Reply 20):

Why not? Bus gates are a normal part of operation at LHR and DXB, amongst other airports of comparable size. From personal experience, a bus gate adds about 15mins to the time needed for a connection. A handful of fancy buses isn't going to break the bank.

It is currently 17F (or -8.333C) in Chicago. Any airline who is subject to having their passengers deplane at a remote stand and bussed to the terminal is immediately going to get major complaints, and that's without rain or snow.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
LGAviation
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:41 pm

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 21):

Quoting bobdino (Reply 20):

Why not? Bus gates are a normal part of operation at LHR and DXB, amongst other airports of comparable size. From personal experience, a bus gate adds about 15mins to the time needed for a connection. A handful of fancy buses isn't going to break the bank.

It is currently 17F (or -8.333C) in Chicago. Any airline who is subject to having their passengers deplane at a remote stand and bussed to the terminal is immediately going to get major complaints, and that's without rain or snow.

Again, it comes down to the America v Rest of the World matter of remote stands. We see it all the time and albeit not as cold, trust me the weather in HAM isn't always that great either. And I've had it at so many extreme temperature places both cold and hot. Deplaning in the heat of a nice summer's day in AUH isn't that much fun either. Still, I don't see the point of modifying a gate to suit the A380 and then effectively blocking whale operations the whole day.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
airbazar
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:10 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 16):

It doesn't have to make sense, that's the way it is and agreed too. It's just not about these two carriers mentioned in the article. It's also about ORD not having the facility to handle a 380 diversion. There can be zero impact to other airlines if a 380 wants to be operated. Moving the 380 to the hardstand will use two of the 4, anyone who knows the summer schedules and works at T5 understands all 4 are being used at one point during peak times.

I find this all too strange. BOS has managed to find room to build 3 A380 gates and additional hardstands and it's a far more limited airport as far as space is concerned. I can't for the life of me understand why an airport as expansive as ORD can't come up with a few extra meters of hard top to park an airplane, especially in the context of all the runway construction and re-arranging that has been going on there.
 
globalcabotage
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:23 pm

As much as I dislike Daley, if he was Mayor, T5 would have expanded to 40 gates and BA, EK, KE, LH, and QR would all have the whale at ORD.

Politics is a big impact in Chicago, but I'll leave it at that.

Regarding hard stands / busses. This was the norm when T1 was demolished for UA and the parking garage was customs and immigration. Not ideal, but it worked (with much less traffic).
 
ckfred
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:46 pm

Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Reply 11):
My guess is that BA 295 goes to a year round A380 replacing the 747. And BA 297 stays 77W for summer and a 772 winter.

If BA were to replace the 744 with the A380, then Oneworld would have a lot of seats this summer on ORD-LHR. For summer of 2015, BA had the 744 and the 77W. AA had 2 772s and a 763.

This summer, AA is swapping out a 772 for a 77W, while adding a 763 (still down from several years ago, when it was 4 772s on ORD-LHR during the summer). To swap out the 744 for the A380 would mean Oneworld flying an A380, 2 77Ws, 1 772, and 2 763s.

Would the A380 be year-round, or would it swap to a 744 for the winter? Next winter, AA is showing the typical 3 flights to LHR, with a 77W and 2 763s.
 
sovietjet
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:23 pm

You guys make it sound like it’s so complicated to arrange aircraft. Why would 2 adjacent gates need to be closed? If an A-380 is occupying a gate and there is concern about wingspan, simply don’t park a 747 next to it. Plenty of international flights use smaller aircraft like A-320s which would easily fit next to an A-380. It’s not that hard to make a procedure or schedule that would park smaller aircraft next to A-380s. Has nobody at ORD played tetris?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 26):
You guys make it sound like it’s so complicated to arrange aircraft. Why would 2 adjacent gates need to be closed? If an A-380 is occupying a gate and there is concern about wingspan, simply don’t park a 747 next to it. Plenty of international flights use smaller aircraft like A-320s which would easily fit next to an A-380. It’s not that hard to make a procedure or schedule that would park smaller aircraft next to A-380s. Has nobody at ORD played tetris?

That's not how it works, at least in the US. All airline ground manuals (in the US) require clear gate boundary markings. An A/C cannot incroach into another gate's boundary. It doesn't matter if the adjacent a/c is a CRJ900 and there's tons of space between in and the A380. The airlines' own manual won't allow them to park the aircraft in the gate because of this. Funny thing about ground operations manuals. They are approved by the FAA and thus, the FAA will hold them to it.
What gets measured gets done.
 
r2rho
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:34 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 27):
All airline ground manuals (in the US) require clear gate boundary markings. An A/C cannot incroach into another gate's boundary. It doesn't matter if the adjacent a/c is a CRJ900 and there's tons of space between in and the A380. The airlines' own manual won't allow them to park the aircraft in the gate because of this. Funny thing about ground operations manuals. They are approved by the FAA and thus, the FAA will hold them to it.

Thanks for that information, I was not aware. That indeed reduces flexibility in gate usage, and kills any advantage of mixing large and aircraft types at adjacent gates to maximize space. I wonder if it is the same in other regions of the world, or if they allow for different rules?
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 28):
I wonder if it is the same in other regions of the world, or if they allow for different rules?

Well Delta is going to start flying at Terminal 2 at ARN this summer, and there are no lines separating the gates painted on the ramp. Last year they were at Pier F and there are no lines there either. So it must be OK when you are abroad??
 
Max752
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:58 pm

I'm sure EK will swoop in and take up the new a380 gate but, maybe AA has indicated to ORD officials that it wants the a380?!?!?

Just kidding of course!

-Max
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ckfred
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RE: ORD A380 Gate Now Official

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:34 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 26):
You guys make it sound like it’s so complicated to arrange aircraft. Why would 2 adjacent gates need to be closed? If an A-380 is occupying a gate and there is concern about wingspan, simply don’t park a 747 next to it. Plenty of international flights use smaller aircraft like A-320s which would easily fit next to an A-380. It’s not that hard to make a procedure or schedule that would park smaller aircraft next to A-380s. Has nobody at ORD played tetris?

That's fine, when every flight is on time, and the gate assignments follow the script.

But, I seem to remember back in the mid 1990s, when LH had the A340 flying out of ORD, depending on which gate it was assigned in Terminal 1, the wingspan might have left an adjacent gate unusable.

A friend of mine who flies for AA tells me that before winglets were installed on the 737s and 757s, they could often park a narrowbody next to a 777 and not worry about space. A 737 wing easily fit under the wingtip of a 777. An F100 wing would fit under the wing of a 767.

But, with winglets, parking a 737 next to a 777 needs more room out of concern that the winglet could touch the 777's wing.

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