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DolphinAir747
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Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:37 am

I read a statistic saying that 50% of British Indians are Gujarati which makes me wonder, has anyone ever flown LHR-AMD nonstop and if not could it work?
 
atal17
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 am

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:55 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):

Both 9W and AI have infact operated LHR-AMD nonstops. But the yields on these routes were extremely low for them to make it work profitably.

AI, however, did reinstate AMD-LHR, via BOM (AI131/130) on a single flight since December 2015.
 
georgiabill
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:57 am

Would BA 788'S make the route profitable or would using a valuable LHR slot be wasted?
 
atal17
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 am

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:02 am

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 2):

The route is too Y-focused for BA to take a look at it. The passenger mix is always VFR, with very little to none F/J traffic.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:05 am

Quoting atal17 (Reply 3):
The route is too Y-focused for BA to take a look at it.

Wonder if a leisure carrier from LGW could make it work?

Other than that, not sure how one competes with the ME3, as it's quicker to go to (various destinations in) the UK via UAE than it is via BOM or DEL.

[Edited 2016-02-12 17:09:18]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
migair54
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:36 am

I think BA could make it work, but using some extremely valuable slots at LHR for that is not that good idea, some other destinations can work better, so if LHR were not so slot restricted we might see BA in some more India and Pakistan.
 
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PatrickZ80
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:49 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):
I think BA could make it work, but using some extremely valuable slots at LHR for that is not that good idea, some other destinations can work better, so if LHR were not so slot restricted we might see BA in some more India and Pakistan.

Then why don't they operate it out of LGW? Altough maybe BA isn't the best choice of airline for this route. Maybe BY or DY has a chance.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:16 pm

BMI launched LHR to Amritsar x4 weekly using an A330, but the route failed in dramatic style thanks to no J class yield. It also operated via Almaty which probably didn't help versus other one stop connection options
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
brahmin
Posts: 78
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:18 pm

The AMD passengers are too stingy.
 
cyba
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:07 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):
...if LHR were not so slot restricted we might see BA in some more India and Pakistan


BA pulled out of serving ISB because of security concerns for its crews, not because of slot restrictions at LHR. And not because of low yields. Only months before they pulled out sometime in 2008 they'd doubled their flights from 3x to 6x weekly so I can only assume the route was performing well at that time.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:32 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):
I read a statistic saying that 50% of British Indians are Gujarati

The Punjabis would beg to differ on that one.

I think it is more like Gujaratis + Punjabis making up around 50%
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
Andy33
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:39 pm

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 2):
Would BA 788'S make the route profitable or would using a valuable LHR slot be wasted?
Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):
I think BA could make it work, but using some extremely valuable slots at LHR for that is not that good idea, some other destinations can work better, so if LHR were not so slot restricted we might see BA in some more India and Pakistan.

At the moment BA aren't short of LHR slots at all, in fact they have 11 slot pairs more than the fleet planners had expected, due to the failure of Virgin Little Red and the collapse of Transaero. What they are short of is long haul aircraft to operate them with. There are only 8 788s. Another 4 are on order but won't start arriving until late 2017. I'm sure they've got routes in mind for them, I'm also sure they aren't going to let us know what they are any time this year.
There are 789s and an A388 still to come this year, and I'm sure they're spoken for either for fleet replacement or expansion, we do have several new routes announced already to start later this year.
Remember IAG CEO Willie Walsh talking about second hand 77Ws and A380s a few weeks ago. They want to expand further and have slots to do it with, but there is only so much more life they can squeeze out of the handful of elderly 763s and 744s due to leave the fleet this year, without major expenditure.
In the meantime the slots are being kept warm using A320/A319s which can make use of several slots a day each.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:15 pm

Quoting atal17 (Reply 1):

Since when does profitability matter to AI. Only around 5% of their international flights are profitable.

[Edited 2016-02-13 09:15:56]
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
UAEflyer
Posts: 1215
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:29 pm

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:53 pm

The route will be better from MAN as the majority are around that area. BA could easily fill B788 to AMD from MAN at least 4 time a week
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 13):
BA could easily fill B788 to AMD from MAN at least 4 time a week

No way. BA can't even make a major business market like JFK work from MAN. Looks like the ME3 win the day.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2815
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:30 am

Armavia was operating BHX-EVN and EVN-ATQ a few years ago. ATQ was twice a week, with a convenient 1 hour connection between the two routes on one of the days.

U8108 BHX1125 – 1920EVN 320 3

U8319 EVN2030 – 0235+1ATQ 319 3
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
CHI787ORD
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:27 am

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:52 am

ATQ to Europe has unfortunately not been high yielding or profitable. Best bet for growth at ATQ the future is EK, EY, and maybe TK adding service one day.

QR is the only one of the ME3 that flies to ATQ and they seem to do well with onward connections to North America and a premium fare. Difference to fly ORD-AMD v ORD-ATQ on QR is sometimes 400-500 USD.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15):
 
cha747
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:36 am

You're assuming that all Gujaratis want to go to Gujarat. I'm Gujarati and I have no reason to go to Gujarat because all my friends/relatives are near/around BOM.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:56 am

Quoting cha747 (Reply 17):
You're assuming that all Gujaratis want to go to Gujarat. I'm Gujarati and I have no reason to go to Gujarat because all my friends/relatives are near/around BOM.


Interesting. Do a lot of Gujaratis live in BOM? I know EWR-BOM is a very large market and there are a lot of Gujaratis around EWR. In fact, Patel, a typically Gujarati surname, is the most popular surname in New Jersey's Middlesex County, followed by Shah.
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1527
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:21 am

I think there is a huge case for a UK based LCC operating 787s or A350s to cater for traffic to the sub-continent - Pakistan, India, Bangladesh.

I wonder if Norwegian will consider expanding this market out of LGW.
Base: BRU
 
hohd
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:46 pm

If any airline can make it work on LHR-AMD, it is BA since it has good connections to US and within Europe, plus the decent O &D.

AI has a flight (although one stop), we will see how it does.

The issue is that many Gujarathis are from Mumbai area and several other cities in Gujarat which have direct flights to BOM, but from AMD requires a road or train journey.
 
tayaramecanici
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:03 am

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:57 pm

Way back in 2005, an airline by the name of TARA Airlines was promoted by an individual, by the name of Deepak Darbari. This was mainly on paper or IPO prospectus, never went beyond it. The proposed airline planned to operate a A330 on LTN-AMD and LTN-ATQ.

AMD has a new satellite city coming up called GIFT, Gujrat Intl Finance Tech-City http://giftgujarat.in/home.aspx. It is attracting many mumbai based gujrati Finance / Gem traders. It is a dream project of the indian PM during his days as CM of Gujrat.

West London is home to the East-African immigrants of Indian origin from the early 70s, the dot com immigrants have spread east towards East-Ham and north in direction of Watford. There is a good opportunity to start direct service to AMD / MAA / HYD from STN. I believe LTN is restricted by runway length to operate LH Wide-Body. IIRC the UK-India bilaterals permit 5th Freedom rights on airports other than LHR. STN can serve as a connecting hub for the Indian diaspora from NJ and Toronto.With the recent announcement of BA to start flying to popular EU holidays dest from STN, some of snooty Brit-Indians won't mind being seen to be flying from STN to gaon (village).

The ME3 network is ripe for exploiting via disintermediation, low oil is killing their sovereign wealth that subsidises these vanity projects. EK will start returning large numbers of B777 starting from this year and continuing for the forseable future. QR will follow soon with their A330s.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
VTORD
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

RE: Why No LHR-AMD?

Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:16 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 18):
Interesting. Do a lot of Gujaratis live in BOM?

Yes there are parts of BOM that are very well known for Gujarati speaking populations. A lot of the trading (stock and other businesses) in Mumbai are dominated by the Gujarati community. Indian states are linguistic in nature for the most part but there is also a lot of movement between states for education, work and so on. To flip the coin, My family is not Gujarati but has called Gujarat home for 5 generations now.

Quoting hohd (Reply 20):
The issue is that many Gujarathis are from Mumbai area and several other cities in Gujarat which have direct flights to BOM, but from AMD requires a road or train journey.

True but the highways in Gujarat are actually pretty good now and between only BDQ, Anand, Nadiad and Bharuch metro area, you are looking at a good 4.5-5 million people within a 2 hour driving distance from AMD. And this is a highly industrialized belt with dairy, agriculture, pharma, manufacturing and petrochem.

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