N1120A
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United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:00 pm

Off the runway and stuck in the grass. With my wife on it. Everyone is ok, but seems to be clogging things up a bit.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:07 pm

By what is visible on Flightradar, it looks more like off taxiway.

http://www.flightradar24.com/UAL476/8d594a6
 
FlyHossD
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:08 pm

Just curious - off the end of the runway, off the side of the runway or off a taxiway?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:10 pm

It's now taxiing again apparently.
 
ek241yyz
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:09 pm

Terrible weather here. Icy rain with snow making for slippery conditions.

Funny though that it's again a United aircraft slipping into the grass ..
Travel often; getting lost will help you find yourself.
 
N1120A
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:45 pm

Quoting ek241yyz (Reply 4):
Funny though that it's again a United aircraft slipping into the grass ..

They do seem to have had quite a few 739ER incidents of this sort.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
32andBelow
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:46 pm

Not blaming, but UA has put several aircraft off the runway this winter it seems.
 
N1120A
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:53 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 6):
Not blaming, but UA has put several aircraft off the runway this winter it seems.

Seemingly the same aircraft type too.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
codc10
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:57 pm

167kt ref and a slick runway... hmmm....
 
whywhyzee
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:10 pm

Apparently the aircraft has made it to the gate now, info from the YYZ spotters FB group.
 
N1120A
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting whywhyzee (Reply 9):
Apparently the aircraft has made it to the gate now, info from the YYZ spotters FB group.

It seemed to take about 30 minutes or so to get them in.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Sooner787
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:25 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Seemingly the same aircraft type too.

As others have said in other threads, the B739 can be a handful to land
in nice weather.
 
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NYPECO
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:45 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
By what is visible on Flightradar, it looks more like off taxiway.

FR24 almost never shows aircraft aligned correctly with the airport map. You can often follow an aircraft to landing and it will appear to land on the taxiway.
 
iahcsr
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:00 pm

UA476 N36476 Ship 0476.... Interesting coincidence
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:04 pm

Quoting NYPECO (Reply 12):
FR24 almost never shows aircraft aligned correctly with the airport map. You can often follow an aircraft to landing and it will appear to land on the taxiway.

You are in part right because often I see the contrary to what you say. I managed to see UA476 live and it was shown as having landed on the runway and exited it through the highspeed taxiway.
 
flyabr
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:08 pm

I presume the 739ER requires a higher landing speed vs say a 738? More speed initially on a slick surface spells more difficulty getting the plane stopped!
 
bgm
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 13):
UA476 N36476 Ship 0476.... Interesting coincidence

Also an interesting coincidence that it is yet again United, and yet another 737-900ER.
OK boomer.
 
eugdjinn
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:13 pm

I love the 739, they are so ungainly on the ground... just watching them taxi... waddle, waddle, waddle, waddle. I finally said that to my other half as we watched one wander by in EWR a week ago, and had him in stitches. "Oh my, it is like a duck! It's back end shifts... you're not kidding... waddle, waddle, waddle...," and pretty soon, we had three kids duck walking around. All three saying, "waddle, waddle, waddle."

Of course, we were waiting to get on our 738, which does the same, only slightly less badly.

I guess the one in question just did, waddle, waddle, waddle, waddle, whoops....
 
DualQual
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 8):

I never saw a ref speed that high on a 900ER in 5 years on the airplane.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
32andBelow
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 18):
I love the 739, they are so ungainly on the ground... just watching them taxi... waddle, waddle, waddle, waddle. I finally said that to my other half as we watched one wander by in EWR a week ago, and had him in stitches. "Oh my, it is like a duck! It's back end shifts... you're not kidding... waddle, waddle, waddle...," and pretty soon, we had three kids duck walking around. All three saying, "waddle, waddle, waddle."

AS puts them down in ANC all day long without incident
 
Sooner787
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:06 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 20):
AS puts them down in ANC all day long without incident

They have tailhooks       
 
smw757
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:19 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 20):
AS puts them down in ANC all day long without incident

I was actually onboard an AS 739 that diverted to JNU and flew the awesome approach into rwy 26.

I have heard from many pilots that the 737 NGs have much higher approach speeds than the classics. One pilot in particular had flown both the classics and the NGs--he told me how much more pleasant it was to land the classics, and how he had to keep the power in with the NGs until after touchdown. Another pilot I know (who flies 757s rather than 737s) loves to joke about how the "tiny" 737 NGs cross the threshold at the same speed as a 747.
 
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longhauler
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:43 am

Quoting smw757 (Reply 22):
Another pilot I know (who flies 757s rather than 737s) loves to joke about how the "tiny" 737 NGs cross the threshold at the same speed as a 747.

Landing ref speeds are not a function of aircraft size, but rather a function of wing design. That is why the "even tinier" early Lears and CRJ100s are even faster!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
theSFOspotter
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:59 am

Jeez United has had some bad luck lately. This is the third UA 739 off a runway in the last few months. IAH, ORD and now YYZ.
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AA737-823
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:47 am

Quoting smw757 (Reply 22):
I have heard from many pilots that the 737 NGs have much higher approach speeds than the classics.

The classics had a much more complicated flap system. It was more effective, but also a maintenance headache.
Speaking from experience!
 
codc10
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:10 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 19):
I never saw a ref speed that high on a 900ER in 5 years on the airplane.

Ref+? Not sure what the gust/ice components were at YYZ but no disputing the sucker has to land fast. Mid 160s over the threshold is not unheard of...
 
xdlx
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:27 pm

Get the public out of its missery, RECALL ALL 739 and convert to Tankers for the AF
 
whywhyzee
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:45 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 26):
Not sure what the gust/ice components were at YYZ

It was messy, snow falling and wind. Temp was hovering around zero, so there was some snow melt, likely caused the formation of patchy ice and slush.
 
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exunited
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:24 pm

The fact that other US operators of the -900 are not having the same issues leads one to believe that it's not an airframe issue but an operator issue. While AS and DL have fleets that are only 1/3 the size as UA, they operate in similar airports but don't seem to have these issues. SOP and training differences perhaps?
 
sixtyseven
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:30 pm

Pearson was very slick yesterday. After the weekend with temps colder than -20c the ground got extremely cold. Then this moist air came in and the ground frosted up like an old freezer. We had some snow but that wasn't the problem.

I nearly wiped out a couple times walking in the parking lot. The taxiways were very slick with the frost forming soon after treatment.

The ground should catch up soon we have temps warming up tomorrow. Just a bad combo of super cold soaked concrete and a saturated air mass.
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antoniemey
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:17 am

Quoting exunited (Reply 29):
While AS and DL have fleets that are only 1/3 the size as UA, they operate in similar airports but don't seem to have these issues.

Or the large number of 900s that UA operates makes it more likely that they encounter these issues with that type where for DL it tends to be MDs. AS is much smaller overall, so less incidents total.

We've had a lot of "off runway" and "off taxiway" incidents in the past few months. UA has no more or less by aircraft wearing its brand than the other US majors, but it's their turn to have a bunch close together.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 27):
Get the public out of its missery, RECALL ALL 739 and convert to Tankers for the AF

Recalls generally presuppose that there is an actual issue with the functioning of the aircraft, and not the conditions it's being operated in or the people operating it.

Based on the ACTUAL EVIDENCE available, it seems the surfaces at YYZ were slick at the time. That can make any plane go sliding. If you start seeing planes slide off dry runways and taxiways on a regular basis, then you can start screaming for drastic measures.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
N1120A
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:15 am

Quoting antoniemey (Reply 31):
Based on the ACTUAL EVIDENCE available, it seems the surfaces at YYZ were slick at the time

Yes - if you listen to the ATC feed, most planes were reporting poor braking.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sixtyseven
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RE: United 476 (739ER) Off Runway At YYZ

Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:00 pm

As for this 739 thing.

If this was the highway the manufacturers are not put at fault when theres a winter storm and people drive them like its summer and wind up in the ditch. The people get tickets for not driving according to conditions.

Operating an airplane is a fairly dynamic thing. When the weather is lousy, and the runways are a mess it becomes extremely dynamic. Slow down. The day in question at YYZ i was taking 90 degree turns at a crawl. Literally around 2-3 knots.

When you're nearly falling on your ass walking from your car to work on frosty concrete, the idea that it's slick out kind of resonates in your head.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......

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