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longhauler
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:33 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 99):
Didn't AC just release an article saying the aircraft doesn't fit their operations?

What they actually said was that there wasn't a business case for the CSeries. But then ... I just bought a new pickup truck ... I didn't start the process by telling Ford they were the only option for me. I started by raving about the ecoDiesel engine in the Ram 1500!!!

But back to the CSeries. I am hoping this is just the beginning for the aircraft.

In reality, is there anything being offered to airlines in that size with that capability? It comes down to whether airlines need a 100-120 seat aircraft, as neither Boeing nor Airbus offers one. AC, has decided they do need one ... hopefully more will also.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
MIflyer12
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:37 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 27):
So is it safe to say the CS300 will be Delta's replacement for the 717????        

If you want to be constructive there's an argument to be made that CS300s would made good replacements for DL's 116 active MD-88s, all of which entered service between 1987 and 1993.
 
Prost
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:52 pm

What is AC's depreciation table like for aircraft. They seem to cycle through aircraft much quicker than their US brethren, but there may very well be tax considerations that allow for this.
 
Skywatcher
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:55 pm

As a BBD stockholder this news put a big smile on my face.
I like this deal on so many fronts.....great for the GTF engine technology....great for Quebec government supporting BBD....great for C-series future.....great for AC with an appealing new airframe and so on.

When fuel prices surge again and the existing world fleets decay further I think the C series will be a winner in the coming decades. This is a game changer....yeehaaw!!
 
rbavfan
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:56 pm

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 4):

45 firm & 30 options
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 85):

I wonder what planemakers take on this is?

Much has already been mentioned by several others so I won't repeat it here. One important item that I brought up recently, which was confirmed today, was the plan for a reverse stock split to reach between $10- - $20. This is critical as many funds cannot invest in penny stocks and would drive the share price even lower bringing about the risk of being delisted.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Devilfish
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:00 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 96):
AC fulfilling their patriotic duty!

Or BBD settling for AC's desired price?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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WildcatYXU
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 97):
But I was more referring to that the seat is the widest in the fleet (now that the Triple is going 10 abreast) and there are no centre seats.

I know. And I like them very much. Actually, the next time I'll be sitting in one is coming Monday (if my upgrade request doesn't clear).

That said, I'm really looking forward to the day when I board the CS300 for the first time   
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Acey
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:13 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 98):
I know its maybe too early but any route predictions once they (CS300s) arrive?

I bet it becomes a staple on YEG/YYC-YVR, as the E190 did.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 94):
I think it would be very possible to reach the northern part of South America to include BOG, CCS with CSeries from YYZ or YUL.

Should be possible. YUL-BOG is less than 2,500 nm and the claimed range of the CS300 is 3,300 nm.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
goosebayguy
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:18 pm

It is great news and could be the turn around much needed by BBD. BBD have never developed a plane in their history until the C series. They have taken over aerospace comapnies which have developed aircraft and these designs are reaching the end of their lives so for BBD to remain in aerospace they had to develop asomething new. By the skin of their teeth they have done this and am sure we shall see many C series aircraft in years to come. Clearly they have now sorted the price out to enable sales. Just hope they make a profit from it.
 
bmacleod
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:20 pm

Usually this is seen as good news for our aerospace industry; however at the same time Bombardier is announcing jobs cuts up to 7000.

I am curious as to what was announced first, the AC order or the big job cuts?

[Edited 2016-02-17 10:22:25]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 110):
Usually this is seen as good news for our aerospace industry; however at the same time Bombardier is announcing jobs cuts up to 7000.

You are right, however I just heard on the radio that Bombardier is going to increase the production rate at YMX, thus it could soften a bit the lay offs.
 
rbavfan
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:36 pm

Quoting qm001 (Reply 24):
it wasn't two weeks ago that they said they could not find a business case for the jets... and now here we are.

Really. I would say they used that to get the price down a little more.
 
YYZFAN
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:37 pm

There is political interference, but to AC benefit. Just hit Bloomberg, the federal government is reexamining the ACPPA and loosening other competition rules in relation to the order.
http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/bl...-air-canada-after-cseries-purchase

The government has interfered, to the commercial benefit of two firms.
 
rbavfan
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 26):
Maybe they meant the smaller version (the one that Swiss will be getting

Swiss has both models on order.

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 33):

Everyone is starting down the Al baker way of negotiation. Bad mouth it till the company gives you the deal you want.
 
YYZYYT
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 68):
And it's likely that the 737 MAX will get the longer routes while the CSeries does mostly regional transborder and intra-Canada short-haul.

Several others beat me to it...

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 75):
AC uses the 190's on their YYZ- DFW flights. That's not exactly a short hop.
Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 88):
The E175 is used on the DFW route as AC Express operated by Skyregional. 3.5 hrs for the flight isn't that bad compared to YYZ-SEA which is 5.5 hrs or EWR-YYC which is 5.2 both on the E190.

I've flown AC E190s on many flights lasting 3+ hours (guess which route?), I full expect to see the CSeries doing the same (or more)

Quoting Quantos (Reply 81):

That deal to drop the Aveos lawsuit is really interesting. It looks like this is a win for all parties involved

Except for the lawyers.   

Signed: a lawyer.
 
lostsound
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:46 pm

Any chance Air Canada places any of these on some routes from YHZ/YYT to smaller markets in Western Europe? Maybe with some of the options. That'd be an interesting application of the aircraft imo.
 
cylw
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:56 pm

If AC wanted an airplane in the 130 seat range (CS300), I don't understand why the MAX7 wasn't chosen. Seems to me that would keep training/maint costs lower than introducing a new type.
 
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redzeppelin
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:02 pm

BBD stock is up about 26% so far today. Still has a long way to recover, but the market seems pleased.
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:15 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 118):
BBD stock is up about 26% so far today. Still has a long way to recover, but the market seems pleased.

This is the reason for the LOI announcement today... and the announcement has achieved the TSE result hoped for.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Acey
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting cylw (Reply 117):
If AC wanted an airplane in the 130 seat range (CS300), I don't understand why the MAX7 wasn't chosen. Seems to me that would keep training/maint costs lower than introducing a new type.

75 potential aircraft is a significant subfleet for an airline the size of AC. If it were only a few frames then sure, but it's highly likely that the CASM advantage of the CS300 vs MAX7 over such a high number frames is more than enough to offset the additional costs associated with the new type, especially if mainline mx costs of the Embraer will be eliminated.

...not to mention whatever possible gigantic savings AC is getting on these aircraft vs additional MAX. Too many unknowns.

[Edited 2016-02-17 11:20:40]
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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sunrisevalley
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:20 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 47):
AC has a long history of ordering the best plane for the job in their estimation.

It took Robt. Milton to break the AC fixation with AB long haul aircraft.

Quoting ytz (Reply 68):
while sticking us with the 737 MAX with narrower seats for the next 20 years.

Hair splitting. There is a dozen other things in the typical flight experience that are more important than a quarter inch of shoulder space.
 
pnwtraveler
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:25 pm

You will also see C Series on direct long and thin routes. Halifax to the west for example by passing Toronto. I was also told some more routes to the US east from Calgary and Vancouver are being considered.

It has been clarified to me that there were only a few routes that the CS100 made sense for AC and it wasn't enough to generate an order. It was only when it was decided that the CS300 beat the E190 NEO for AC that then the order made sense for AC.

The releasing of the Air Canada Participation nonsense is in the government purview and would certainly be a deal sweetener. The release of the law suit by Quebec as well was another sweetener but the decision on the preferred airframe came first then the sweeteners were made. It was hinted that the E190NEO had low financing rates involved as part of an export inducement package.
 
YYZFAN
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:27 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 119):

From what I understand, the reverse stock split is still in the works. They are targeting a share price between $10-$20.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/n...lts-for-the-fou.bombardiercom.html

About halfway down the page, under the heading "Share Consolidation".
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:29 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 120):
Too many unknowns.

This announcement was rushed for today, hence the LOI and not a sale agrreement... not even tentative. There is still quite a bit of negotiating to be done before this deal is closed. AC has time on its hands since delivery is not anticipated until late 2019... just over 3.5 years from now.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
cylw
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 119):
This is the reason for the LOI announcement today... and the announcement has achieved the TSE result hoped for.

I'm thinking the timing was also to overshadow the $116M Q4 loss that AC also reported today.
 
Whiteguy
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:58 pm

Quoting YYZFAN (Reply 113):

There is political interference, but to AC benefit. Just hit Bloomberg, the federal government is reexamining the ACPPA and loosening other competition rules in relation to the order.
http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/bl...-air-canada-after-cseries-purchase

The government has interfered, to the commercial benefit of two firms.


Seems like the only thing that'll change is regarding the heavy mtc...

Quoting cylw (Reply 117):

If AC wanted an airplane in the 130 seat range (CS300), I don't understand why the MAX7 wasn't chosen. Seems to me that would keep training/maint costs lower than introducing a new type.


I'd honestly be surprised if the MAX7 is even built, only a few orders from WN and WS. The larger 8s and 9s will be the aircraft most go with. Look at WS, 700s are being replaced by 800s....
 
Bluebird191
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:58 pm

Didn't AC come out recently as saying they couldn't find the business csse or make it work for the C-Series? I'm confused as to the backflip from AC
 
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Quantos
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:59 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 124):
This announcement was rushed for today, hence the LOI and not a sale agrreement... not even tentative. There is still quite a bit of negotiating to be done before this deal is closed. AC has time on its hands since delivery is not anticipated until late 2019... just over 3.5 years from now.

Do keep in mind that there are legal ramifications in this deal. The gov. of Quebec is dropping its lawsuit concerning Aveos as a result of this deal. We don't know for sure if the deal only says that AC needed to sign a LOI to have the lawsuit dropped, but I highly doubt this would be the case. The gov. of Quebec has most likely obtained guarantees from AC that this deal is going to lead to more than just a LOI. The deal also includes the long term maintenance of the AC C Series being done in a C Series "Excellence" center in the YUL area. This, of course, is only valid if AC has C Series to maintain in the first place.
Quantos,

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INFINITI329
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:08 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 122):
It has been clarified to me that there were only a few routes that the CS100 made sense for AC and it wasn't enough to generate an order. It was only when it was decided that the CS300 beat the E190 NEO for AC that then the order made sense for AC.

So the CS100s are an added extra then

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 127):
Didn't AC come out recently as saying they couldn't find the business csse or make it work for the C-Series? I'm confused as to the backflip from AC

See reply #122 pmwtraveler has pretty plausible explanation why
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:14 pm

Quoting cylw (Reply 125):
I'm thinking the timing was also to overshadow the $116M Q4 loss that AC also reported today.

Certainly a part of it, and the legal deal reached with the Quebec government. But BBD has been running a serious risk of being delisted from the S&P/TSE index. It would be a significant blow to BBD if it were to occur. BBD is walking a fairly tight financial line with several "mines" on either side of the line.

Quoting Quantos (Reply 128):
Do keep in mind that there are legal ramifications in this deal. The gov. of Quebec is dropping its lawsuit concerning Aveos as a result of this deal. We don't know for sure if the deal only says that AC needed to sign a LOI to have the lawsuit dropped, but I highly doubt this would be the case. The gov. of Quebec has most likely obtained guarantees from AC that this deal is going to lead to more than just a LOI. The deal also includes the long term maintenance of the AC C Series being done in a C Series "Excellence" center in the YUL area. This, of course, is only valid if AC has C Series to maintain in the first place.

Absolutely. Until the deal is closed we obviously won't know a lot of the terms and conditions. According to AC's press release: "As a result, subject to completion of final agreements, the Government of Quebec has agreed to discontinue the litigation related to Air Canada's obligations regarding the maintenance of an overhaul and operational centre." Timing of closing of the sale will be interesting. I don't know if you caught the spin about the current number of CSeries "commitments" to avoid the glaringly obvious that the program hasn't received a firm order since September 2014. And if BBD wants to keep to their "moving" commitment of 300 firm orders by EIS they will have to hurry. And how soon after EIS will BBD wait to announce the cancellatioin of Republics 40 CS300 (+40 options) "firm order".

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 129):
See reply #122 pmwtraveler has pretty plausible explanation why

It doesn't. That explanation makes AC look like amateur fleet planners. They didn't decide to do this LOI in the space of a fw of weeks.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
cylw
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:14 pm

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 127):
I'd honestly be surprised if the MAX7 is even built, only a few orders from WN and WS. The larger 8s and 9s will be the aircraft most go with. Look at WS, 700s are being replaced by 800s....

If the landing distance for the MAX8 is improved over the NG I will agree. As you know there are places that the 800 cant go to at MLDW if the runway is contaminated.

[Edited 2016-02-17 12:21:03]
 
YXXMIKE
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:19 pm

Well a big congrats to AC and BBD for getting a substantial deal done! I wonder if that current delivery time frame will move forward as not all of the existing orders are set in stone unless of course there is another order in the wings?

I'll be the first to admit that even as the most committed C-Series fan boy I had kind of given up hope lately so this is a pleasant surprise to see. Hopefully (for the sake of the Canadian tax payer) that a couple more of these blue chip orders start to come together. As for the politics of this one...I suspect there was a massive amounts of posturing from all sides but hopefully this new federal government took a quick look at the lessons log from the Mulroney government before they got involved in any way shape or form!!
 
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Quantos
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 130):
Absolutely. Until the deal is closed we obviously won't know a lot of the terms and conditions. According to AC's press release: "As a result, subject to completion of final agreements, the Government of Quebec has agreed to discontinue the litigation related to Air Canada's obligations regarding the maintenance of an overhaul and operational centre." Timing of closing of the sale will be interesting. I don't know if you caught the spin about the current number of CSeries "commitments" to avoid the glaringly obvious that the program hasn't received a firm order since September 2014. And if BBD wants to keep to their "moving" commitment of 300 firm orders by EIS they will have to hurry. And how soon after EIS will BBD wait to announce the cancellatioin of Republics 40 CS300 (+40 options) "firm order".

Do we have an idea of the time frame for the delivery of the Republic frames? If it a while after EIS, I suspect they're still hoping that someone is waiting on EIS to pick up the order.

Otherwise, if they don't find anyone, I definitely expect them to wait as long as possible to announce anything.
Quantos,

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pnwtraveler
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:27 pm

LIke all aircraft orders recently by AC and used by many airlines, AC can substitute the CS100 for some orders under some coniditons.

While it wasn't suitable for enough routes and therefore didn't fit their fleet requirements as an order, they have left some wiggle room for new demands over the next few years and adjusting to market conditions.

AC and Bombardier have been talking this over for quite a few years. I even suspect Boeing was giving them a run with the MAX7. The 175's are moved out to Jazz and the E190's will be old enough to have been nicely depreciated so the time frame makes sense.

I think the MAX7 is probably a little to heavy and the lighter CS300 will have financial dividends that warrants the extra fleet type.
 
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 100):
I didn't start the process by telling Ford they were the only option for me. I started by raving about the ecoDiesel engine in the Ram 1500!!!

And the Ecodiesel RAM is one of the best light duty trucks out there!

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 107):
I'm really looking forward to the day when I board the CS300 for the first time

You and me both, if we can get a US3 or contractor besides Republic to get it!

Quoting cylw (Reply 117):
If AC wanted an airplane in the 130 seat range (CS300), I don't understand why the MAX7 wasn't chosen. Seems to me that would keep training/maint costs lower than introducing a new type.

Because the MAX 7 economics are bad, and the CS300 economics are good. Honestly, with great rising types like the C-Series, E2 and MRJ, I doubt the 737 MAX 7 and A319neo will account for more than 5% of total sales within their respected families.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
Whiteguy
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:37 pm

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 127):

Didn't AC come out recently as saying they couldn't find the business csse or make it work for the C-Series? I'm confused as to the backflip from AC


That had been asked and talked about many times in this thread already....

Quoting cylw (Reply 131):

If the landing distance for the MAX8 is improved over the NG I will agree. As you know there are places that the 800 cant go to at MLDW if the runway is contaminated.

[Edited 2016-02-17 12:21:03]

True but there are really not many airports that are restricted, and it doesn't happen often.
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:47 pm

Quoting Quantos (Reply 133):
Do we have an idea of the time frame for the delivery of the Republic frames? If it a while after EIS, I suspect they're still hoping that someone is waiting on EIS to pick up the order.

Otherwise, if they don't find anyone, I definitely expect them to wait as long as possible to announce anything.

After Airbus bumped the CS300 from Frontier in June 2011 the order has been orphaned at Republic. BBD can keep up the 40+40 charade for as long as Republic agrees to it.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 135):
Because the MAX 7 economics are bad, and the CS300 economics are good.

The MAX 7 economics are not bad... just not as good as the CS300. And BBD now admits that the CS300 is only 10% more efficient at best and less so on a COC basis.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
N1120A
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:58 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 32):
I don't know the contractual limitations on Rouge's fleet

They are at their limit. They could change composition - retiring A319s for A321s or something of the sort.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 49):
Hmm... wouldn't the CS100 have been the better choice, capacity-wise, for E190 replacement?

The CS300 has similar economics to the CS100, but carries more. Win win. Even if you fly 30 empty seats, you are still winning on cost and potential.

The CS100 is a specialty market aircraft. It is useful for places like LCY and if YTZ gets a slightly longer runway.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 75):
AC uses the 190's on their YYZ- DFW flights. That's not exactly a short hop.

They use 190s on YYZ-SEA and YYC-EWR. That is much more impressive.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 122):
It has been clarified to me that there were only a few routes that the CS100 made sense for AC and it wasn't enough to generate an order.

I'd imagine that, if YTZ gets the longer runway, then AC will order.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:06 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 137):
The MAX 7 economics are not bad

Realistically, no, but compared to larger MAXs, NEOs and new regionals? I doubt it.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 138):
The CS100 is a specialty market aircraft. It is useful for places like LCY and if YTZ gets a slightly longer runway.

We all know how the story with Porter is going, and the runway extensions at YTZ failed to go through.

BA or some of the small feeders in Europe however could benefit from the CS100, especially as it can get in and out of LCY neatly.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
cylw
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:19 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 139):
Realistically, no, but compared to larger MAXs, NEOs and new regionals? I doubt it.

Of course CASM will be lower with the MAX8 and 9. If that was the only determining factor though, why are orders for the MAX8 three times more than the MAX9?
 
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mariner
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:25 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 137):
After Airbus bumped the CS300 from Frontier in June 2011 the order has been orphaned at Republic. BBD can keep up the 40+40 charade for as long as Republic agrees to it.

Just for the record, "Frontier" never ordered the C Series - it was always Republic:

http://us.bombardier.com/us/press_release_25022010.htm

"Republic Airways Holdings Becomes First North American Customer for Bombardier CSeries Aircraft with Order for up to 80 Airliners

February 25, 2010 — Toronto"


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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:26 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 139):
Realistically, no, but compared to larger MAXs, NEOs and new regionals? I doubt it.

Simply put, the economics are not bad.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 139):
BA or some of the small feeders in Europe however could benefit from the CS100, especially as it can get in and out of LCY neatly.

Utilization at LCY is limited by available ramp space. Recently, someone posted that only 2 CS100s could be allocated ramp space at one time.
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:28 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 141):
Just for the record, "Frontier" never ordered the C Series - it was always Republic:

... for Frontier (which Republic owned at the time).  
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:32 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 143):
... for Frontier (which Republic owned at the time).

It was still a Republic order, as was the Neo order, which Republic then sold to Indigo, as a separate deal from the selling of Frontier to Indigo.

Frontier had zero capital at that time, it couldn't buy anything.

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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 144):
It was still a Republic order

Which is what I have always said. Once Airbus bumped the CS300 order destined for Frontier, Republic was stuck with no place for them.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:38 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 142):
Utilization at LCY is limited by available ramp space. Recently, someone posted that only 2 CS100s could be allocated ramp space at one time.

Which is what I'd guess, seeing that the 2 A318s BA has can probably fit there without causing too much of a hassle.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 143):
.. for Frontier (which Republic owned at the time).  

The question then still remains: Where will those 40 CS300s go?
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:41 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 145):
Which is what I have always said. Once Airbus bumped the CS300 order destined for Frontier, Republic was stuck with no place for them.

But still retained the order, claiming to have other plans for it.

http://leehamnews.com/2013/10/01/fro...up-what-of-republic-cseries-order/

"Republic was the launch customer for 40+40 Bombardier CSeries, Inevitably, questions will arise over the future of these orders, since these were assumed to be for Frontier.

Our information is that Republic has plans for these airplanes apart from Frontier."


Note - "assumed" to be for Frontier.

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-17 13:43:38]
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 147):
But still retained the order, claiming to have other plans for it.

Well no, Leeham's "information" claims they have other plans for it, Republic never said that. 2+ years later and nobody still has a clue what those "plans" are.
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:54 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 147):
But still retained the order, claiming to have other plans for it.

They had no choice. And we all know what their other "claimed" plans for the order amounted to. 
Quoting mariner (Reply 147):
Note - "assumed" to be for Frontier.

No need to "note". Everyone knew it was for Frontier.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein

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