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mariner
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:56 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 148):
Well no, Leeham's "information" claims they have other plans for it, Republic never said that. 2+ years later and nobody still has a clue what those "plans" are.

Ah - it's my memory that Republic did suggest what the other plans were - to operate them in some conjunction with a major.

Whether those plans are still viable, given Republic's own financial troubles since, is unknown to me, but they have always referred to the C Series order in this way: "an asset - and assets have value."

Quoting planemaker (Reply 149):
No need to "note". Everyone knew it was for Frontier.

People assumed they were for Frontier.

But why didn't Republic cancel the order when they - Republic - made the Neo order? How or why did the BOD agree to the the Neo order if they (then) had no other plans for the C Series?

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-17 14:00:21]
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Polot
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:07 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 150):

Ah - it's my memory that Republic did suggest what the other plans were - to operate them in some conjunction with a major.

Whether those plans are still viable, given Republic's own financial troubles since, is unknown to me, but they have always referred to the C Series order in this way: "an asset - and assets have value."

Republic can't operate them for majors because of scope clauses. That was certainly known in 2013. They are assets with value though- they hold 40 presumably somewhat early production slots. Granted I suspect they were hoping C series development/demand went a lot smoother than how it actually turned out (and did not expect oil prices to plummet). I don't think anyone ever expected Republic to operate the plane though.
 
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:10 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 151):
Republic can't operate them for majors because of scope clauses. That was certainly known in 2013. They are assets with value though- they hold 40 presumably somewhat early production slots.

I mean, the fact that they haven't sold their slots off seems like they're committed to them.

They can't operate for another airline because of the scope clause, but what if they were able to sell to one of the US3s? UA?
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planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:12 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 150):
Ah - it's my memory that Republic did suggest what the other plans were - to operate them in some conjunction with a major.

That was Bedford flailing about trying to find some use for the orphaned CS300 order.

Quoting mariner (Reply 150):
People assumed they were for Frontier.

No one assumed. Bedford talked about them in the press as being for Frontier for very obvious reasons.

Quoting mariner (Reply 150):
But why didn't Republic cancel the order when they - Republic - made the Neo order?

Simple... as Bedford has said: he hoped to sell the production slots.

Quoting mariner (Reply 150):
How or why did the BOD agree to the the Neo order if they (then) had no other plans for the C Series?

As Airbus chortled at the time of the sale, they gave them an offer they couldn't refuse.  
Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 152):
I mean, the fact that they haven't sold their slots off seems like they're committed to them.

No one wants them, that is why they haven't sold them.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 153):
No one wants them, that is why they haven't sold them.

So how should Republic realistically proceed with the 40+40 order?
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YXXMIKE
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:23 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 153):

Please see the title of the thread and try to keep on track; we all know this order pains you quite a bit but if you need an anti CS thread then feel free to start it somewhere else. Otherwise go back in your troll hole.
 
Thomaas
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:25 pm

I'm assuming that any deal with one of the big US carries will involve taking over the Republic order. I have no doubt that they got a killer price for the frames.
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 154):
So how should Republic realistically proceed with the 40+40 order?

It would have been nice if AC picked up those slots but... then BBD would still be 35 frames short for meeting the EIS firm order sales target. And that is where the charade that was mentioned earlier comes from. There is no way that Republic can take delivery (obviously) but at the same time it serves BBD to have Republic not cancel the order. Not only is Republic's order the largest from an airline but if it was canceled it would put BBD a further 40 frames in the hole in order to meet their 300 firm order sales target by CSeries EIS.

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 156):
I'm assuming that any deal with one of the big US carries will involve taking over the Republic order. I have no doubt that they got a killer price for the frames.

Since they were North American launch customers they did get a good deal... but it actually might not be good enough now with A & B really undercutting prices and BBD more willing to scrap it our now with A & B.
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:38 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 157):
There is no way that Republic can take delivery (obviously) but at the same time it serves BBD to have Republic not cancel the order. Not only is Republic's order the largest from an airline but if it was canceled it would put BBD a further 40 frames in the hole in order to meet their 300 firm order sales target by CSeries EIS.

I think the order by AC should give other airlines confidence to perhaps pick up Republic's CS300. 40 firm plus 40 options is a pretty good sized order, and that enough to replace a subfleet in some cases.

What comes to mind is UAs A320s and DLs MD88s. Of course, DL isn't going to retire their MD88s anytime soon, as they tend to fly planes until the bolts start popping out, and the CS300 might be a tad too small to replace an A320 1:1.

I still think UA should pick them up, and perhaps convert the options to CS100s.

[Edited 2016-02-17 14:39:05]
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dc10lover
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:54 pm

I think confidence will be if / when the CSeries is in commercial operation.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:12 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 159):
I think confidence will be if / when the CSeries is in commercial operation.

Well then, if/when it does, it'll happen real soon, yeah?

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/4/2/9/2656924.jpg
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aircanadaa330
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 159):
I think confidence will be if / when the CSeries is in commercial operation.
Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 160):
Well then, if/when it does, it'll happen real soon, yeah?

isn't it going to be in commercial operation later this year?
Cheers;
 
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting aircanadaa330 (Reply 161):
isn't it going to be in commercial operation later this year?

In May, apparently. I don't get this "if/when" talk.
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Quantos
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting aircanadaa330 (Reply 161):
isn't it going to be in commercial operation later this year?

Q2 2016, probably some time over the summer.
Quantos,

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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:59 pm

Quoting cylw (Reply 125):
I'm thinking the timing was also to overshadow the $116M Q4 loss that AC also reported today.

You'd be wrong. Not only does an aircraft order not overshadow financial results, but the shares plummeted today.
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:02 am

Will the CS300 replace the A319 to go transatlantic (LHR-YYT)?
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C010T3
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:08 am

An order won through litigation. Quebec really did a good here:

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...o-service-cseries-jets-in-province
 
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longhauler
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:09 am

Quoting YYZFAN (Reply 164):
but the shares plummeted today

After they skyrocketted yesterday ... it's almost like it's the stock market!

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 165):
Will the CS300 replace the A319 to go transatlantic (LHR-YYT)?

One of the problems with the E190, is that it never could be configured for ETOPS ... even life rafts were an issue.

The CSeries has been sold with range as one of its features. I am hoping it comes from the factory with some level of ETOPS operations in mind. Not just for the north atlantic, but also the caribbean and south/central america as well.
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mariner
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:28 am

Quoting polot (Reply 151):
Republic can't operate them for majors because of scope clauses. That was certainly known in 2013.

Well, he - Bedford - knows that and I know that. He has said that can't operate them under the normal contracts with the majors.

He's not stupid, despite what some here seem to think.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 153):
That was Bedford flailing about trying to find some use for the orphaned CS300 order.

Flailing about? LOL

Bedford has always been a fairly outrageous and opportunistic wheeler-dealer of assets.

The purchase of Frontier relied on a piece of perfectly legal sleight-of-hand that Southwest didn't spot, and the sale of Frontier may not have been the loss that many "assumed" because Republic took a perfectly legal tax write -off of $200 million on it.

There's more to the Neo order than meets the eye, at least the A319Neo, than you suggest.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 153):
As Airbus chortled at the time of the sale, they gave them an offer they couldn't refuse.

I doubt Airbus was "chortling," at least until after the event - they were a bit desperate, or Leahy was, and while Republic certainly got a great deal, I question your interpretation of it.

And it still doesn't solve the problem of why the BOD allowed it to happen. The BOD at Republic is activist, it demanded the sale of Frontier against the wishes of the CEO.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 153):
Simple... as Bedford has said: he hoped to sell the production slots.

Then you agree - there was always a back-stop position.

So I don't know what any of this has all been about.

mariner
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Beatyair
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:30 am

With most airlines up-sizing there aircraft including Air Canada gaps appear.

Current Fleet Future Fleet

CRJ(16) - 75 persons CRJ(16) - 75 persons
E175(15) - 73 persons E175(15) - 73 persons
E190(31) - 97 persons
A319(18) - 120 persons
A320(42) - 146 persons 737-8(33) - 162 persons
A321(15) - 183 persons 737-9(28) - 180 persons

There is a rather large gap to fill in the future fleet the C-Series can fill nicely.
The quantities( ) of each type of plane plays a factor in this too.
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:41 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 166):

Yeah right! Classic "post hoc ergo propter hoc" or the fallacy of reverse causation. Can't expect less from an Embraer fanboy.

AC ordered the CSeries because the CS300 is the right plane for their needs. After buying them they could have chosen to have it serviced in Sao Paolo. Instead they are choosing to have it serviced in Quebec. Hence the lawsuit was dropped.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:53 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 167):
The CSeries has been sold with range as one of its features. I am hoping it comes from the factory with some level of ETOPS operations in mind. Not just for the north atlantic, but also the caribbean and south/central america as well.

I believe it will ve certified for ETOPS 120 as one of the operators has asked for it.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
lostsound
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:53 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 167):
The CSeries has been sold with range as one of its features. I am hoping it comes from the factory with some level of ETOPS operations in mind. Not just for the north atlantic, but also the caribbean and south/central america as well.

The CSeries will likely qualify for ETOPS. Newcomer Odyssey Airlines has an order for CS100s with the intention of LCY to NYC flights.

I'd love to see AC open new markets. Maybe YYT - CDG, with a codeshare with PJ to FSP. Could also act as a connection to YUL. I could definitely see YHZ to smaller markets in the UK, maybe some other Western Europe cities.
 
C010T3
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:19 am

Quoting golfradio (Reply 170):
Can't expect less from an Embraer fanboy.

I have never boarded an Embraer jet in my life. I do not care about Embraer whatsoever.

Quoting golfradio (Reply 170):
AC ordered the CSeries because the CS300 is the right plane for their needs. After buying them they could have chosen to have it serviced in Sao Paolo. Instead they are choosing to have it serviced in Quebec. Hence the lawsuit was dropped.

Their need was to settle a lawsuit, so the plane became part of the fit.
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:38 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 168):
There's more to the Neo order than meets the eye, at least the A319Neo, than you suggest.

No there isn't. Airbus gave them a better deal.... can't do any better than that.

Quoting mariner (Reply 168):
And it still doesn't solve the problem of why the BOD allowed it to happen.

Easy... economically they came out ahead.

Quoting mariner (Reply 168):
Then you agree - there was always a back-stop position.

No, that was after the fact.

Quoting mariner (Reply 168):
So I don't know what any of this has all been about.

You started the exchange.  
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
cylw
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:01 am

Globe and Mail article says that insiders believe AC is paying $30M per aircraft. If so, thats an amazing bit of negotiating by AC. Great airplane, a lawsuit disappers, the ACPPA will be reopened and all at a super low price.
 
golfradio
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:02 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 173):
I do not care about Embraer whatsoever.

I apologize. I may have mistaken you for someone else.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 173):
Their need was to settle a lawsuit, so the plane became part of the fit.

The law suit filed by the then Charest government claimed that the closure of Aveos caused over $18.5 million in tax losses.

Assuming that AC's appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada had been dismissed (which is unlikely), I doubt the punitive damages would be any where close to the at least $2 Billion (assuming a very hefty discount) that the CS300 contract is worth.

AC could have just settled the law suit and written it off its books. No need to invest and then operate a sub fleet which will cost more over the next 10-15 years.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
Viscount724
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 75):
AC uses the 190's on their YYZ- DFW flights. That's not exactly a short hop.
the CS 300 would be an BIG improvement on that route

What improvements are you referring to? I much prefer the Embraer 190 with seats and aisle at least as wide as the CSeries, and zero chance of a middle seat.

Quoting Prost (Reply 102):
What is AC's depreciation table like for aircraft. They seem to cycle through aircraft much quicker than their US brethren

I don't agree with that. AC has quite a few A320s at least 25 years old, and quite a few 763s as much as 28 years old. And many of their DC-9s were in service for almost 35 years.

Quoting cylw (Reply 125):
I'm thinking the timing was also to overshadow the $116M Q4 loss that AC also reported today.

The record annual profits are more significant. I doubt AC has ever reported a net profit in Q4 due to the seasonality of their markets.

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 127):
Didn't AC come out recently as saying they couldn't find the business case or make it work for the C-Series? I'm confused as to the backflip from AC

That could well mean that Bombardier dropped their price or improved the financing terms, which would have a big impact on the business case.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 162):
Quoting aircanadaa330 (Reply 161):
isn't it going to be in commercial operation later this year?

In May, apparently. I don't get this "if/when" talk.

It's due to the various postponements of previously-announced delivery and in-service dates. When dates are announced and then missed, you begin to lose confidence that the latest dates will be met.
 
MIflyer12
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:02 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 177):
Quoting Prost (Reply 102):
What is AC's depreciation table like for aircraft. They seem to cycle through aircraft much quicker than their US brethren

I don't agree with that. AC has quite a few A320s at least 25 years old, and quite a few 763s as much as 28 years old. And many of their DC-9s were in service for almost 35 years.

Planespotters.net as the reference. Mainline fleet average age:

AA 11.0 years

WN 12.2 years

UA 13.6 years

AC 16.0 years

DL 17.1 years
 
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deltadawg
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:10 am

Fantastic news for BBD and the CSeries. Congratulations BBD!

Hopefully this will help BBD and the CSeries perhaps secure some more orders from major airlines. I hope to see a C300 in DL livery someday!

In regards to earlier ETOPS questions what is the plan for ETOPS for the CSeries? Will it be capable of TATL from Canada to UK, W. Europe?
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mariner
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:11 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 174):
No there isn't. Airbus gave them a better deal.... can't do any better than that.

I think it is more true to say that Bedford negotiated a great deal - or part of it. Airbus - Leahy - had put him in the catbird seat. But it;s tough to imagine that he paid the moon for the C Series order.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 174):
Easy... economically they came out ahead.

They were/are still on the hook for the C Series.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 174):
No, that was after the fact.

From the day the Bombardier contract was signed, there was always the backstop that he could sell those early production slots. Just as he re-negotiated the Neo deal after the event. Again, he's a dealer in assets.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 174):
You started the exchange.  

All I did was clarify a fact.

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-17 19:17:27]
aeternum nauta
 
MSPNWA
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:14 am

Good news for Bombardier, but I just can't ignore the potential political side of this. I don't think this is a sign for future orders.
 
chrcaremanav
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:38 am

Hi! I think that Bombardier woke up and smell the coffee and lowered Their prices(only speculation on my part) on Their CSeries, it is about time They received an order, I told my Parents a few days ago that I was very sad and worried about Bombardier, They are not out of Their difficulties though, to have 7000 Souls losing Their jobs and vocations it is heart wrenching, will pray for Their success. Would not be surpirised on day in the very near future that Jetblue will order some.
Take care and all kind of different animals.
 
Pyrex
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:51 am

Well, I guess Air Canada had to repay the Canadian government for cock-blocking Porter somehow.
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YVRLTN
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:52 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 167):
I am hoping it comes from the factory with some level of ETOPS operations in mind. Not just for the north atlantic, but also the caribbean and south/central america as well.

What is the cargo capacity like of the CS300? An important factor for South America I think. I still cant believe AC went with the 737 for this factor alone...
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Noise
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:00 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 183):
Well, I guess Air Canada had to repay the Canadian government for cock-blocking Porter somehow.

Frankly, I agree.
 
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Boeing778X
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:22 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 173):
I have never boarded an Embraer jet in my life. I do not care about Embraer whatsoever.

You're more or less missing out. My ride in a brand new E175 last week was just great! Spacious, comfortable, big windows, the new winglets look slick, an overall excellent plane! Vastly superior to the CRJ-700/-900 imho.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 177):
It's due to the various postponements of previously-announced delivery and in-service dates. When dates are announced and then missed, you begin to lose confidence that the latest dates will be met.

Do they seem confident about May at this point?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 183):
Well, I guess Air Canada had to repay the Canadian government for cock-blocking Porter somehow.

Which was a bummer, seeing as that would have been a very interesting story for Porter.

Will they still order the CS100, or was that tied into YTZ expansion?
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:26 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 180):
They were/are still on the hook for the C Series.

Doesn't matter, it was still economically more advantages.

Quoting mariner (Reply 180):
From the day the Bombardier contract was signed, there was always the backstop that he could sell those early production slots.

It is still after the fact... and it isn't even a goodn after the fact backstop since he can't sell them.

Quoting mariner (Reply 180):
All I did was clarify a fact.

Saying that the CSeries was only "assumed" for Frontier is not clarifying.  
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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mariner
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:50 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 187):
It is still after the fact

It was always there, it always is, for any holder of early production slots. The fact that he didn't voice it doesn't change that.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 187):
and it isn't even a goodn after the fact backstop since he can't sell them.

His chances are better today than they were yesterday - LOL.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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JetBuddy
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:57 am

Really awesome news for Bombardier and Air Canada! I'm really happy about this order, the C Series is a fantastic aircraft and it really needed a breakthrough. I hope this is the beginning of a snowball effect where other large carriers feel safer to order large quantities of C Series as well.

Congrats Bombardier!
 
robsaw
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:23 am

Quoting qm001 (Reply 24):
Perhaps I am looking at this too coldly, and for sure I am sure some of you will bring up the US and EU subsidy/state aid issues, and these are valid. Frankly, if this is Canada's version of state aid, I like it, since the product is a VERY good one, and very competitive.

Direct subsidy for a particular buy would probably run afoul for various trade agreements but BBD has already received "help" from the Quebec gov't and some sort of aid is anticipated from the Fed level. Certainly political pressure, dropped lawsuits, maintenance base commitments involving AC and Quebec for sure.
 
INFINITI329
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:29 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 184):
What is the cargo capacity like of the CS300? An important factor for South America I think. I still cant believe AC went with the 737 for this factor alone...

Agreed, I was shocked when AC choose the MAX over the NEO

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 183):
Well, I guess Air Canada had to repay the Canadian government for cock-blocking Porter somehow.

Any YTZ expansion would be to AC's benefit as well now, so we will see if there is another push.
 
planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:32 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 188):
The fact that he didn't voice it doesn't change that.

It was never his fall back when the sale was made. And it isn't now either... especially with the new price point of $30 million that just made his chances even worse.  
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:03 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 192):
It was never his fall back when the sale was made. And it isn't now either... especially with the new price point of $30 million that just made his chances even worse.  

I'll just keep on saying - it was available to him from Day 1, as it is with any holder of early production slots.

mariner
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planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:15 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 193):
I'll just keep on saying - it was available to him from Day 1, as it is with any holder of early production slots.

Which is "clearly" irrelevant to buying the CS300 for Frontier's Airbus replacement.  
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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mariner
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:42 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 194):
Which is "clearly" irrelevant to buying the CS300 for Frontier's Airbus replacement.  

Huh? I don't understand what you're saying - it is completely irrelevant to that. It is relevant to Republic's options in dealing with its C Series contract.

  

mariner
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planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:52 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 195):
I don't understand what you're saying

Very simple... Bedford bought the CSeries to replace Frontier's Airbus'.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:12 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 196):
Very simple... Bedford bought the CSeries to replace Frontier's Airbus'.

Did he? I was fairly closely involved with Frontier at the time and I don't remember any but the most fanciful saying that they were replacements for all the Airbus. I note that Frontier isn't even mentioned in the original press release, so I'd like to see a link - something more than speculation.

http://us.bombardier.com/us/press_release_25022010.htm

"Republic Airways Holdings Becomes First North American Customer for Bombardier CSeries Aircraft with Order for up to 80 Airliners"

And I still don't see how that is relevant to what I have said - that the option of the selling the C Series production slots was available to him from Day 1.

He has chosen - so far - not to exercise that option, but it is there, always has been, and the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

mariner

[Edited 2016-02-17 23:13:35]
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planemaker
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:15 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 197):
Did he?

Yes... everyone in the industry at that time knows that. Moreover, there was a lot of spilt ink in the industry rags when Airbus bumped the CSeries.  
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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Air Canada To Order Up To 75 CS300 Jets - Part 1

Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:19 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 183):

The Canadian govt, sometimes wisely, is hell bent on protecting Air Canada, so I don't see anything wrong with greasing the hand that fed you. Until porter starts serving every tiny town in Nunavut and NL, I see Protecting AC is of national interest, not the laissez faire type of "protectionism" views that CAPA likes to spew.

The last thing Canada wants is have their aviation market become like India.

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