ROCDLFAN
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G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:20 pm

Looking on the website, it appears G4 is ending all routes they began as an FLL expansion plan last October. The only route that will be sticking around is FLL-ROC, and that will be suspended from the end of August to the beginning of October (for the month of September it appears.)

Surprised about FLL-SAT/CAK, but the others I feel were somehwhat expected. No press releases have been made for any destination.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
MAH4546
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:28 pm

September/October is the absolute slow season. How do we know they don't come back in November? A large amount of G4's Florida flying is seasonal.
a.
 
ROCDLFAN
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:30 pm

The routes were launched as year round.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
joeljack
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:40 pm

The same thing is happening with SFB routes. After a quick 2 min search...OKC-SFB ends in August and doesn't come back. OMA-SFB and MCI-SFB both are discontinued for the month of September but those two routes come back in October.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:40 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
September/October is the absolute slow season. How do we know they don't come back in November? A large amount of G4's Florida flying is seasonal.

Some of the AZA flying is seasonally suspended as well. Last year, G4 did a September/October suspension for FWA-AZA, with the route returning in November.

But you're right about Florida seasonal suspensions being normal for G4. TOL-Florida routes were seasonally suspended for many years, LIT-SFB is strictly seasonal (among other SFB routes), and even traditionally strong G4 routes like FWA-SFB/PIE saw a one-time seasonal suspension as the Great Recession hit.

MYR and SAV flying has always been seasonal, as will be VPS and all but one of the new BWI routes. PGD started as seasonal to three cities before becoming the focus city of today, in large part because Direct Air ate up most of the PGD terminal prior to their collapse.

Summary: G4 isn't afraid to do seasonal flying regardless of destination.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
MAH4546
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 2):
The routes were launched as year round.

Practically every G4 route is launched as "year round." They never are.
a.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:48 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Practically every G4 route is launched as "year round." They never are.

FWA-PGD and FWA-PIE have never seen a seasonal suspension since they launched in 2012 and 2007, respectively.

FWA-SFB, which started several weeks before FWA-PIE, hasn't seen one since 2009 (it was a one-time September/October suspension).
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
RL757PVD
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:49 pm

The Allegiant definition of year round is a 4-6 week break in September timeframe... its like having "daily service" not running Saturdays in the slower months.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
MAH4546
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:04 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Practically every G4 route is launched as "year round." They never are.

FWA-PGD and FWA-PIE have never seen a seasonal suspension since they launched in 2012 and 2007, respectively.

FWA-SFB, which started several weeks before FWA-PIE, hasn't seen one since 2009 (it was a one-time September/October suspension).

It wasn't meant to be taken literally. The fact remains G4 suspends a lot of "year-round" routes in September and October.
a.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:06 pm

I'm not surprised that ROC-FLL stays on after seasonal suspension. ROC-FLL has been served daily and weekly in the past by AirTran. ROC-FLL appears to be a route just short of supporting daily scheduled service. G4 is probably the right fit.

Jim
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toltommy
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:28 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 9):
ROC-FLL has been served daily and weekly in the past by AirTran.

IIRC CAK-FLL was as well back in the AirTran days. I don't know what G4's loads in general have been like at CAK. It's a very different product for customers who were used to FL and WN.
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ATLFlyer323
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 10):
I don't know what G4's loads in general have been like at CAK.

My family members take G4 every winter now from RSW to CAK multiple times, my mom will actually be on it this week, and the planes are always packed according to them. Now I know how little we pay for the flights, but G4 is all about the extras. I hope CAK will be able to hold onto the fun and sun destinations like RSW that cater well to the weather and age demographic of the region.

-ATLflyer323
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jetlanta
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:25 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
The Allegiant definition of year round is a 4-6 week break in September timeframe... its like having "daily service" not running Saturdays in the slower months.

This is exactly the case. Nothing to see here.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Thread starter):

The FLL - SAT route has been one of G4's routes that I have had trouble figuring out. San Antonio is a large city with a relatively
mild climate and a number of tourist attractions. Is there that many people in the San Antonio metro area that fly to South Florida?
Or is this one of those routes that have tourist and leisure travelers going both ways?
 
stlgph
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:17 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 13):

the people of San Antonio enjoy going away on trips and vacations. it's an amazing concept, I know, but it happens.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ROCDLFAN
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:52 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 13):
Quoting stlgph (Reply 14):

Not out of SAT, a heavily dominated WN market they don't. I looked at a few seat maps for flights (although inaccurate, between the seat maps and the fare their going for, for G4 that gives a pretty accurate showing as to how the flight is doing) and they looked embarrassing. From the beginning when the route first launched things did not seem too promising, but seeing flights an hour before departure (latest you can look at a G4 seat map) and only having 40-50 seats assigned on a 177 seat aircraft is simply screaming "end me."
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:07 am

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 15):
Not out of SAT, a heavily dominated WN market they don't. I looked at a few seat maps for flights (although inaccurate, between the seat maps and the fare their going for, for G4 that gives a pretty accurate showing as to how the flight is doing) and they looked embarrassing. From the beginning when the route first launched things did not seem too promising, but seeing flights an hour before departure (latest you can look at a G4 seat map) and only having 40-50 seats assigned on a 177 seat aircraft is simply screaming "end me."

You can't tell anything from the seat maps of airlines that charge for EVERY seat selection. G4, F9, NK. Full flights can and will have 1/4 full seat maps until people start checking in.
 
ROCDLFAN
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:42 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 16):

Which is why if you read my post you'd see that I said an hour before departure. If it's an hour before departure and G4 is selling seats for $49 and there are say 60 seats assigned, figure you can add a few more for last minute check ins, that's a fairly accurate representation. You can also tell how many seats they received revenue from for booking versus which were assigned upon check in by looking at rows. (i.e. G4 assigned complimentary seats on the 320 from the second to last row and forward. No, it's not completely accurate, but it paints a decent picture.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
nws2002
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
The Allegiant definition of year round is a 4-6 week break in September timeframe... its like having "daily service" not running Saturdays in the slower months.

Exactly. Almost every FL route takes a 6 week break in August/September, even ones labeled as "year-round". Back to school sees a huge drop off in leisure travel and G4 almost always takes that time off for several routes. Some of the strongest markets keep flights during this period, but most go on hiatus.

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 15):
I looked at a few seat maps for flights (although inaccurate, between the seat maps and the fare their going for, for G4 that gives a pretty accurate showing as to how the flight is doing) and they looked embarrassing.

SAT-FLL loads look pretty sucky, but G4 is a carrier willing to try something for a few months and then cancel it if it doesn't work out. They generally don't hold on to poor performing routes. OTOH, SAT-LAS and SAT-SFB look good.

Quoting joeljack (Reply 3):
.OKC-SFB ends in August

OKC-SFB has been seasonal since it was launched in 2013. It comes back in the spring/summer and goes away in the fall/winter. TUL-SFB is year-round and usually adds frequencies in the summer.
 
rbavfan
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:12 am

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 2):
The same thing is happening with SFB routes. After a quick 2 min search...OKC-SFB ends in August and doesn't come back.

G4 does not tend to post flight schedules more than 6 months out. So it could easily return when demand needs. I find it funny people expect an airline that notes it is a highly seasonal airline for Travel packages, Tours & Cruises would introduce guaranteed year round service.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:54 pm

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 11):
My family members take G4 every winter now from RSW to CAK multiple times, my mom will actually be on it this week, and the planes are always packed according to them. Now I know how little we pay for the flights, but G4 is all about the extras. I hope CAK will be able to hold onto the fun and sun destinations like RSW that cater well to the weather and age demographic of the region.


PGD, not RSW.

I'd be curious to know how that tiny terminal at PGD is handling all the G4 volume. Neighbors of ours once flew PGD-GRR the first time G4 flew the route, they said PGD was wall to wall with people. Have they made any improvements?
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:25 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 20):
they said PGD was wall to wall with people. Have they made any improvements?

Nearing the end of a terminal expansion at PGD, it is already partially in use from what I have heard.

From a September article:
Airport leaders aim to have the entire terminal transformed by February or March 2016. Meanwhile, they believe passengers will like what they see of the brighter, more spacious new wing.

When completed, the new terminal will boast:

Six air gates, with the potential to expand to 11;
A shop selling gifts, food and beverages;
A bigger parking lot; and
*A "whole lotta more seats," Quill said.
http://www.news-press.com/story/news...-grows-allegiant-flights/71655344/


Some renderings of the new terminal here:
http://fortmyers.floridaweekly.com/n...xpands_to_accommodate_surge_i.html
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:37 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 20):
PGD, not RSW.

I'd be curious to know how that tiny terminal at PGD is handling all the G4 volume. Neighbors of ours once flew PGD-GRR the first time G4 flew the route, they said PGD was wall to wall with people. Have they made any improvements?

Oh gosh thanks for that! I am flying into RSW on Thursday so I'm using that excuse on why I messed up!

There were no improvements the last time I used PGD (last winter to be fair) and I had a very similar experience as your neighbors. A lot of flights leave there in the early AM and it gets very crowded. But I loved walking up to my plane! I will try and take a look around when I pick mom up on Thursday and let you know if I see any.

-ATLFlyer323
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
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knope2001
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:31 am

Fall is pretty soft to Florida when the double-whammy of school resumption and hurricane season put a lid on things.

These are the G4 routes which filled 75% or fewer of available seats in August, September and November of 2015, and Florida is definitely well-represented.

August 75% or less
Systemwide LF (not adjusted for stage length) was 86.1%
49.2% MTJ LAX
63.1% IND FLL
64.5% SFB MYR
67.4% CAK MYR
69.0% LAS CPR
69.5% FAR PIE
69.9% RDU PGD
70.3% LCK PGD
70.6% IND PGD
71.6% LAS BOI
71.9% LCK FLL
72.9% OAK AZA
73.3% PIE GSP
73.4% RDU PIE
73.5% MEM FLL
73.8% PIT PGD
73.9% CVG PGD
74.3% LAS AZA
74.5% PIT PIE
74.6% CVG SFB
75.0% GFK FSD
75.0% FLL CVG

September 75% or less
Systemwide LF (not adjusted for stage length) was 82.9%
48.6% SFB MYR
51.0% LCK FLL
51.1% SFB GFK
52.3% PIT PGD
58.1% PIT PIE
58.2% IND FLL
63.1% SFB BTV
64.8% LCK PGD
65.6% LAS BOI
66.1% LAS AZA
66.3% RDU PGD
67.4% LAS CPR
68.8% PIE GSP
68.9% MYR CAK
69.5% LAS BRO
69.5% SYR FLL
69.8% PSP BLI
70.5% OAK AZA
71.1% RDU PIE
71.3% CVG PGD
71.3% IND MYR
71.8% IND LAS
72.8% CVG FLL
72.9% CVG SFB
73.3% BIS SFB
73.8% LAS GJT
74.2% GSP PDG

October 75% or less
systemwide LF (not adjusted for stage length) was 84.0%
44.6% PSM PGD
48.2% CAK FLL
49.2% PSM FLL
63.4% LAS BRO
65.1% PIT PGD
65.4% ROC FLL
65.9% SFB GFK
66.5% MEM PIE
67.1% LAS CPR
67.8% MEM AUS
70.0% SFB FAR
70.1% PGD CID
70.7% IND FLL
71.8% LCK FLL
72.4% LAS BOI
72.8% SFB BIS
72.9% MOT LAS
73.3% PBI AVL
73.4% GSP PBI
74.2% PIT PIE
74.6% GSP PIE
75.0% RDU PGD

In addition to the heavy representation of Florida (and MYR) markets among the softest, it also struck me how frequently and handful of largish cities show up on the list. Recently G4 has been more about places like Indianapolis and Cincinnati more than places like Billings and Bloomington. IN most of these (relatively) large cities either a hub carrier cut back or the WN/FL merger opened the door for new competitors. Nearly half these sub-75% markets involve PIT (6) IND (6) CVG (6) RDU (5) LCK (5) CAK (3) or MEM (3). LCK (Columbus Rickenbacker) isn't new but the rest pretty much fit the mold.
 
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knope2001
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:05 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 23):

These are the G4 routes which filled 75% or fewer of available seats in August, September and November of 2015,

That should say August, September and October. The labels above each list correctly state the months.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:16 pm

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 22):
Oh gosh thanks for that! I am flying into RSW on Thursday so I'm using that excuse on why I messed up!

I'm jealous... we haven't made our annual trek to Naples yet this year, although I heard it's been unseasonably cool until recently. Enjoy!
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:17 pm

That sucks. I was excited about PSM-FLL. I've used the PSM-FLL flight several times recently. Free parking and $100 roundtrip were hard to beat.

They ended BGR-FLL quickly after starting it too. I have no desire to go to Orlando, so I guess I won't be flying them anymore.
 
ROCDLFAN
Topic Author
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:45 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 23):

Where were you able to get this data?
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
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knope2001
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:45 am

Quoting ROCDLFAN (Reply 27):
Where were you able to get this data?

It's simple T100 data from the Air Carrier Statistics (Form 41 Traffic)- U.S. Carriers. You can use the segment data to get to calculate load factor.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/databas...1&Mode_Desc=Aviation&Subject_ID2=0
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: G4 Discreetly Ends FLL-CAK/PSM/GRR/SAT

Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:13 pm

I took the G4 flight FLL-SAT last week on a Thursday and the flight was almost empty. A lot of empty rows and they asked people not to move seats because of weight/balance issues.
I got to lay down on my 3 seats on my row to sleep after a 7am departure (the flight left 20 minutes early cause everybody was onboard early).
I paid $13 for based fare. With taxes and fees (seats/bags) I paid $68 one way in total.
I got the impression the passengers were mostly VFR and familes from SAT vacationing in So Fla.
The A320 looked brand new and it was an enjoyable easy flight (but the seats dont recline !)

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