B6 And PHX

VAM8789 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:34 am

How does B6 do with their flights to PHX from BOS and JFK? Are they still running 1 daily flight each from BOS and JFK?

JetBlueCLT · Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:45 am

Still one daily each from JFK/BOS. That tells a lot.

atcsundevil · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:15 am

Their service here has been relatively unchanged for years. At times, they would add an additional frequency to either BOS or JFK, but ultimately they've always settled back into a once daily service to each. They've never had a significant presence here, and given the competition from larger carriers with many more frequencies to both airports like AA, WN, DL, and UA (by way of EWR), they've always had an uphill battle, especially since AA and WN are fairly entrenched as hub airlines and maintain a high level of popularity and visibility in PHX. They've carved out their niche and stuck with it. I would love to see them increase their presence by adding LGB, OAK, or MCO, but since the aforementioned carriers maintain an advantage in all of those markets, I'm not sure we'll ever see it without a major strategy shift. They simply seem to be content with being a minor player in PHX.

INFINITI329 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:58 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 2):
I would love to see them increase their presence by adding LGB, OAK, or MCO,

I could see a redeye to MCO working. Seasonally though during the summer and spring travel periods. Saves pax a day.

jetbluefan1 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:39 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Thread starter):
How does B6 do with their flights to PHX from BOS and JFK? Are they still running 1 daily flight each from BOS and JFK?

Yes, just 1x to each. B6's yields on JFK/BOS-PHX are historically much lower than flights of comparable length, such as JFK/BOS-LAS/LAX/SFO/SAN. Given the significant presence of AA and WN, seasonality of the market, and B6's general lack of strength in the West, I doubt we'll see B6 add to its token presence in PHX.

Given B6's pickup of 3 LGB slots, there could be a small chance that B6 allocates those slots for flights to PHX. It might be a good way to round out the short-haul operation they have built from LGB.

spinkid · Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:45 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 4):
Given B6's pickup of 3 LGB slots, there could be a small chance that B6 allocates those slots for flights to PHX. It might be a good way to round out the short-haul operation they have built from LGB.

or at least to occupy these slots until they can figure out a better use.

hz747300 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:00 pm

WN? They only have one flight to EWR too.

I would argue B6 is fighting against frequencies and a loyal FF base from AA, and onward connections available on DL and UA (and AA). Hence no need for more frequencies.

It would be good expanded service, LGB would be a good place to start .

1337Delta764 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:02 pm

I always thought that B6 should consider AZA (Mesa Gateway) instead of PHX. AZA currently lacks service on G4 to the NYC, Boston, Los Angeles, and Orlando areas, so there is little in the way of competition for B6. I would think service to JFK, BOS, LGB, and MCO would do quite well. AZA is located in a relatively affluent area, and I am pretty sure those living in East Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler would be willing to pay a bit more over PHX for the convenience.

[Edited 2016-02-23 11:04:50]

a380787 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:08 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
I always thought that B6 should consider AZA (Mesa Gateway) instead of PHX. AZA currently lacks service on G4 to the NYC, Boston, Los Angeles, and Orlando areas, so there is little in the way of competition for B6. I would think service to JFK, BOS, LGB, and MCO would do quite well. AZA is located in a relatively affluent area, and I am pretty sure those living in East Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler would be willing to pay a bit more over PHX for the convenience.

B6 is a lot more similar to a FSC than a LCC these days, and definitely has very little, if any, in common with ULCCs. PHX is where they're (correctly) at, not AZA.

Their earliest route maps involve OAK LGB IAD. Now those are all neglected in favor of FSC airports of SFO, LAX, and DCA.

1337Delta764 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 8):
B6 is a lot more similar to a FSC than a LCC these days, and definitely has very little, if any, in common with ULCCs. PHX is where they're (correctly) at, not AZA.

However, there isn't any competition from G4 on the destinations that I mentioned, and because AZA is located in a relatively affluent area, I would think those living in East Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler may be willing to pay more for the convenience over having to drive to PHX and deal with all the traffic and parking.

[Edited 2016-02-23 11:12:30]

a380787 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):

However, there isn't any competition from G4 on the destinations that I mentioned, and because AZA is located in a relatively affluent area, I would think those living in East Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler may be willing to pay more for the convenience over having to drive to PHX and deal with all the traffic and parking.

The question to ask is "how many people are going out of their way to fly G4 just to avoid dealing with PHX" ? I'd venture to say very small amount.

G4 has a very different business model than B6, to a point that even on head-to-head routes (assuming any), B6 wouldn't care much to stage a response. NK is a different story.

910A · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:39 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 10):
The question to ask is "how many people are going out of their way to fly G4 just to avoid dealing with PHX"

The answer is in the stats. IWA/AZA is the #1 airport in the G4 system for number of local hub outbound traffic. Something like 30% of their passengers live in the valley. The residents of Sun City, Avondale etc traveling to places like Grand Island, Eugene like the convenience of a non-stop service. Heck, I seen the University of Arizona baseball team catch a flight at Mesa to fly to Eugene for a weekend series.

Has for B6 at Phoenix, just looking at their route map they are basically a north-south east coast airline. I don't see B6 giving much love to any of the Mountain Timezone cities.

chrisair · Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:44 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
AZA is located in a relatively affluent area,

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
because AZA is located in a relatively affluent area,

Comments like these make me wonder if you've ever been to East Mesa, AJ, Queen Creek or east Chandler...

In any event, you need to stop thinking in terms of PHX traffic only. This is a round trip flight, and I'm pretty confident nobody in their right mind would fly to Mesa if they were going to central Phoenix, Scottsdale etc. Hell, I'm pretty confident nobody would willingly go to Mesa, unless they had to (and no, the Cubs spring training facility doesn't count as Mesa--it's practically Tempe). It's named the world's most boring city for a reason.

1337Delta764 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 12):
Comments like these make me wonder if you've ever been to East Mesa, AJ, Queen Creek or east Chandler...

In any event, you need to stop thinking in terms of PHX traffic only. This is a round trip flight, and I'm pretty confident nobody in their right mind would fly to Mesa if they were going to central Phoenix, Scottsdale etc. Hell, I'm pretty confident nobody would willingly go to Mesa, unless they had to (and no, the Cubs spring training facility doesn't count as Mesa--it's practically Tempe). It's named the world's most boring city for a reason.

I can see your point about Apache Junction, but there are plenty of affluent areas in East Mesa and Chandler, specifically the Superstition Springs area, southeast Chandler, Fulton Ranch, and the new Eastmark community. I wouldn't call Queen Creek poor either despite having lower housing prices than Gilbert or Chandler.

SWALUV · Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:59 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):

Still, it's easier for the majority of people living in Queen Creek, Chandler, Gilbert, etc. to drive to PHX, then for everyone from Scottsdale, Glendale, Downtown to come out to AZA. B6 in PHX probably pools a lot from the Scottsdale/Glendale/Tempe area, not from Gilbert.

Then there's the fact that AZA would have to increase their terminal slightly (maybe a gate). Landed today and all gates were parked with aircraft.

1337Delta764 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:04 pm

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 14):
Still, it's easier for the majority of people living in Queen Creek, Chandler, Gilbert, etc. to drive to PHX, then for everyone from Scottsdale, Glendale, Downtown to come out to AZA. B6 in PHX probably pools a lot from the Scottsdale/Glendale/Tempe area, not from Gilbert.

B6 is already competing with AA, DL, and UA to NYC and BOS, thus at AZA they would have less competition. Considering B6's minimal presence at PHX, I don't think there are a lot of locals who will specifically try to fly B6 over AA, DL, or UA, all of which have a significantly larger presence than B6 and probably a larger FF base as well (AA is #1 at PHX, DL is #3, and UA is #4).

[Edited 2016-02-23 13:06:13]

a380787 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:10 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):

B6 is already competing with AA, DL, and UA to NYC and BOS, thus at AZA they would have less competition. Considering B6's minimal presence at PHX, I don't think there are a lot of locals who will specifically try to fly B6 over AA, DL, or UA, all of which have a significantly larger presence than B6 and probably a larger FF base as well.

You have to consider their route network. B6's only PHX routes are to the northeast - JFK and BOS, so it's not likely they'll be commanding hearts and wallets of local PHX/AZA folks by moving their operation over to AZA.

On the other hand, there's a non-trivial population from outside Arizona that will only book to PHX and completely ignore AZA.

DL has a history of willing to fly to secondary airports (e.g. OAK MDW DAL HOU) to compliment their core offerings at SFO ORD DFW IAH. If anyone would've tried AZA, it would be DL first, not B6.

1337Delta764 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:14 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 16):
You have to consider their route network. B6's only PHX routes are to the northeast - JFK and BOS, so it's not likely they'll be commanding hearts and wallets of local PHX/AZA folks by moving their operation over to AZA.

I would think at AZA they could easily add LGB and MCO, neither of which G4 serves.

SWALUV · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
AZA they would have less competition.

Yes, but the decrease in competition that they would have would be minimal at best. Yes, they won't have AA,DL, or UA knocking on their gate, but they still receive indirect competition from them. For all intensive purposes, AZA and PHX are basically the same market. Moving to AZA won't help them.

You are right though, the frequency and options that the other carriers have blow's B6's operations out of the water. Some may choose to fly specifically on them, but the average business traveler will look at frequency first.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 17):

They'd still have competition out of PHX.

[Edited 2016-02-23 13:18:17]

4holer · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:25 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
I would think those living in East Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler may be willing to pay more for the convenience over having to drive to PHX and deal with all the traffic and parking

I live in Gilbert, and no I would not. It is quicker for me to go to PHX, among other reasons.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:42 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
B6 is already competing with AA, DL, and UA to NYC and BOS, thus at AZA they would have less competition. Considering B6's minimal presence at PHX,

They would be at a competitive disadvantage from AZA. B6 would largely be forfeiting traffic by moving to AZA. Folks coming from the NE aren't going to want to have to rely on long drives or cab rides from AZA to get to their resort. Furthermore, AZA isn't really that much more convenient especially when compared to T3 at PHX. From most East Valley cities PHX is 20-40 minutes so unless you live within 10 minutes of AZA the convenience factor is a wash. Also, the money and tourism in the valley lies in Tempe, West Chandler, Scottsdale, Camelback, and Carefree/CaveCreek all of which are far more convenient from PHX.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 16):
On the other hand, there's a non-trivial population from outside Arizona that will only book to PHX and completely ignore AZA.

Right, unless G4 serves their market there's a very high chance people outside AZ don't know that AZA even exists.

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 2):
ike AA, WN, DL, and UA (by way of EWR)

jetBlue has 1 NS PHX-JFK & its a redeye.

Southwest does not fly to JFK so like UA via EWR, Southwest would be via EWK or ISP.
However they have no NS or Direct flights to ISP. All flights involve 1 stop & an airplane change.
They do have 1 NS PHX-EWR. All other flights involve 1 stop & an airplane change.

American also has just 1 NS PHX-JFK flight & its a redeye.

Delta has 2 NS PHX-JFK flights Both are AM flights.

United has 3 NS PHX-EWR flights to EWR 1 redeye, 1 6:30AM & 1 6:30PM.

So it would seem that 8 NS flights to the NY area are all thats supported. Everything else seems to be 1 stops or connections. It would be silly to add a PHX-FLL-JFK or PHX-MCO-JFK flight for more service. However PHX-LGB-JFK might work.

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:53 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
However, there isn't any competition from G4 on the destinations that I mentioned, and because AZA is located in a relatively affluent area, I would think those living in East Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler may be willing to pay more for the convenience over having to drive to PHX and deal with all the traffic and parking.

If it would work Spirit would not have moved from AZA to PHX. I knew a lot of people that were "cheap" flyers that would go from Phoenix including west side to AZA to catch Spirit or G4. Most I knew from Mesa would rather go to the bigger airport for some reason.

a380787 · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:55 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 21):

So it would seem that 8 NS flights to the NY area are all thats supported. Everything else seems to be 1 stops or connections. It would be silly to add a PHX-FLL-JFK or PHX-MCO-JFK flight for more service. However PHX-LGB-JFK might work.

Phoenix to LA Basin is a large market on its own - no need to waste seats just to backtrack connect to JFK.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:59 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 21):
Delta has 2 NS PHX-JFK flights Both are AM flights.

DL has a 3rd for part of the year and it runs as a redeye.

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 21):
American also has just 1 NS PHX-JFK flight & its a redeye.

AA has 4x to JFK with 1 redeye and 3x to EWR with 1 redeye.

SurfandSnow · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:01 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Thread starter):
PHX from BOS

Can't be too bad since WN dropped the route, right? AA can leave a lot to be desired on the longer domestic routes like this...

Quoting VAM8789 (Thread starter):
and JFK

Probably sucks, but like Chicago, Denver, and Houston they simply have to do it in order to be appealing to the NYC business travelers and other important FFers...

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 4):
Given B6's pickup of 3 LGB slots, there could be a small chance that B6 allocates those slots for flights to PHX. It might be a good way to round out the short-haul operation they have built from LGB.

I actually think PHX could be a very good use of the new LGB slots. Great O&D, plus connecting feed for the flights to Northern California, the Pacific Northwest, and (seasonal) ANC.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested FLL-PHX yet. At this point it's probably only a matter of time...

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:04 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 12):
This is a round trip flight, and I'm pretty confident nobody in their right mind would fly to Mesa if they were going to central Phoenix, Scottsdale etc.

True what resorts are there in Mesa? Thats were the tourist want to go. to a resort. The nearest resort to AZA would be Wild Horse Pass casino thats a 35 min drive from AZA vs 26 min from PHX. That negates that use & most would rather do Vegas than a small casino on the south side of Phoenix. All the resorts in Scottsdale & Phoenix are much faster to get to from PHX than AZA. AZA is a NS to unusual destinations from a vacation package owned airline. Wish it was different, but until Mesa/Gilbert get less religiously controlled the main tourist looking for Resorts, Bars, Clubs, Restaurants will fly into PHX. No ones building were there a limits on Clubs.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:12 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 26):
The nearest resort to AZA would be Wild Horse Pass casino thats a 35 min drive from AZA vs 26 min from PHX.

The Crown Plaza in Downtown Chandler is a Golf resort, although not big. Then there is a Resort out in Gold Canyon as well, basically anything South and East of AZA will favor AZA over PHX, but there's not a whole lot out there relative to the rest of PHX.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 25):
I actually think PHX could be a very good use of the new LGB slots. Great O&D, plus connecting feed for the flights to Northern California, the Pacific Northwest, and (seasonal) ANC.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested FLL-PHX yet. At this point it's probably only a matter of time...

My only concern about LGB would be that AA usually has pretty aggressive fares from there commonly 140-160, which is low compared to the fares to the rest of the basin so yields may not be the best, but it does offer some connections. FLL much more likely IMO as I think any extensive competition AA would move their flights to MIA. It would certainly offer B6 fliers options to the Caribbean far more convenient than JFK/BOS.

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:13 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 24):
AA has 4x to JFK with 1 redeye and 3x to EWR with 1 redeye.

I just looked there are only the ones I listed that are NS. Thats what B6 is competing on, not the array of 1 stop & connection flights.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 28):
I just looked there are only the ones I listed that are NS. Thats what B6 is competing on, not the array of 1 stop & connection flights

AA serves PHX-EWR 3x N/S and PHX-JFK 4x N/S in addition to flights connecting in DFW/ORD etc.... B6 is certainly competing against frequency from AA. Please clarify if I am misunderstanding.

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:23 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 27):
The Crown Plaza in Downtown Chandler is a Golf resort, although not big.

I have stayed there for a convention. It has a golf course, but its not really a resort. It Holiday Inns version of a resort. Its more a old west idea of a resort that gets blown away by the Biltmore (actually older than Crown Plaza), JW Marriot Desert ridge, Point resorts at Squaw Peak & Tapatio Cliffs, Royal Palms, Phoenician & a dozen others in Scottsdale/Phoenix.

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:26 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 27):
FLL much more likely IMO as I think any extensive competition SA)">AA would move their flights to MIA. It would certainly offer SA)">B6 fliers options to the Caribbean far more convenient than JFK/BOS.

Agree they do need FFL links for all their SA & Caribbean services. But we were covering PHX-JFK. So as a connection on that point why would I go to FFL to hit NY. Would not fly Delta through ATL for that route either. Unless my boss got a good fair and forced me to.

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:36 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 29):

OK Different date does show 4 to JFK & 3 to EWR. Daring going against UA at EWR with that many NS. I wish the perimeter from LGA was lifted. Would love a PHX-LGA flight.

rbavfan · Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:42 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 29):

Most of the talk has been based on NS as B6 does not have any midwest hubs. Most business flyers I know will avoid flights that are not NS. Hell most of my friends will avoid 1 stop or connection flights. Thats the only reason a couple of them will still fly on G4. Getting to Buffalo/upstate NY & Grand Rapids & Green bay NS. I won't fly G4, too cramped and too many issues with planes and flight crew disputes. Its getting uglier and that breeds dangerous things.

atcsundevil · Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:03 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 21):
American also has just 1 NS PHX-JFK flight & its a redeye.

Delta has 2 NS PHX-JFK flights Both are AM flights.

United has 3 NS PHX-EWR flights to EWR 1 redeye, 1 6:30AM & 1 6:30PM.

Round trips weren't my point -- customer base was my point. AA, DL, WN, and UA have significantly more loyalty in the valley than B6 to get to NYC.

rbavfan · Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:31 am

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 34):

The original poster noted PHX-BOS & PHX-JFK on B6 so your point was customer base. His point appears to be NS service between the cities. So that should be what the comments are on.

EA CO AS · Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:30 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 3):
I could see a redeye to MCO working.

Redeyes are rough for MCO; not too many tourists want to arrive at a time when their hotel won't allow them to check in.

INFINITI329 · Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:37 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
Redeyes are rough for MCO; not too many tourists want to arrive at a time when their hotel won't allow them to check in.

ahh good point didn't think that far. I guess you need a 6am - 8am departure to not loose the day in MCO

hz747300 · Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:58 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 26):
Thats were the tourist want to go. to a resort.....

Totally agree. Why do people fly to Arizona? To do touristy things, which are either in Scottsdale, or Phoenix (sports), or up north primarily with a few large holes in the ground. There are other things, like Tucson, or Tombstone, or Safford / Willcox, around where I am from originally, but I don't see people coming in even the thousands to these places. And the other reason to fly to Arizona is business, most of which will be in Phoenix, Mesa (the part closest to Tempe), Tempe, and Scottsdale (the part closest to Tempe).

AZA has its place, and that rests with the ULCC. Ironically, I think that Spirit and Frontier failed at AZA because they offered too little. If they opened up SAN, LAX, BUR, SLC, LAS, DEN it would have a better chance of working than a single red-eye to DFW. Looking at the travel pattern destinations and frequencies on G4 from AZA, it seems to be a very Ryanair-esque place, that could be wicked busy in the winter, and core traffic only the rest of the year.

Osubuckeyes · Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:17 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
Redeyes are rough for MCO; not too many tourists want to arrive at a time when their hotel won't allow them to check in.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 37):
ahh good point didn't think that far. I guess you need a 6am - 8am departure to not loose the day in MCO

Ironically all PHX-MCO flights leave after 9:45am so you have no choice but to lose the day anyways. Though all of them arrive after the 3pm check in mark. I can't speak for MCO, but out of a bunch of other cities I've traveled to on redeyes or early morning arrivals only a handful of times did a hotel not have a room ready for early check-in, and even then you can always have your bags on hold and go about the day. Regardless, I don't really think that PHX-MCO fit the B6 route profile FLL/LGB would be a much better fit.

chrisair · Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:43 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 38):
Why do people fly to Arizona? To do touristy things, which are either in Scottsdale, or Phoenix (sports), or up north primarily with a few large holes in the ground. There are other things, like Tucson, or Tombstone, or Safford / Willcox

Really? Tourism in Wilcox and Safford? There's nothing in Wilcox except a bunch of farms (and an apple orchard that's really awesome). Safford? Unless you want to look at a telescope and some endangered squirrels, I can't think of anything to do out there. In fact, I'd believe most Arizonans couldn't tell you where Safford or Wilcox were on the map.

Tucson? Sure. Tombstone? That's a stretch, but sure.

I would bet there's more business travel through PHX than tourism. Think about it: the main tourism season is really from mid-February to early-April, around Spring Training. That's when the airport is slammed on a regular basis.

I still can't get over how crowded security or the rental car bus lines are in June.

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 39):
I can't speak for MCO, but out of a bunch of other cities I've traveled to on redeyes or early morning arrivals only a handful of times did a hotel not have a room ready for early check-in

Do you book a reservation for the night before? That is, if you're taking a redeye that arrives at 5a Monday, do you book a hotel Sunday night? Or do you just roll up at the hotel and check in as if it's 5pm on Monday?

hz747300 · Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:10 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 40):
Really? Tourism in Wilcox and Safford? There's nothing in Wilcox except a bunch of farms (and an apple orchard that's really awesome). Safford? Unless you want to look at a telescope and some endangered squirrels, I can't think of anything to do out there. In fact, I'd believe most Arizonans couldn't tell you where Safford or Wilcox were on the map.

Haha, good catch. I wanted see how many people on the board had any knowledge of Arizona. You seem keenly astute on Southeastern Arizona, and the plight of the red squirrels on Mt Graham.

For Willcox, it's bird watching.

All that aside, B6 in PHX is not designed to serve people from Arizona, it's for the people in Boston and New York. There's no point to put those single flights in AZA.

Osubuckeyes · Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:15 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 40):
Do you book a reservation for the night before? That is, if you're taking a redeye that arrives at 5a Monday, do you book a hotel Sunday night? Or do you just roll up at the hotel and check in as if it's 5pm on Monday?

Well to be completely fair I try and book redeyes with connections or that get in a bit later say around 630-7am. I usually aim to get to the hotel between 8-10 in which case the most of the time they have had a room ready.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 41):
Haha, good catch. I wanted see how many people on the board had any knowledge of Arizona. You seem keenly astute on Southeastern Arizona, and the plight of the red squirrels on Mt Graham.

For Willcox, it's bird watching.

Bisbee seems to be somewhat of a tourist town, and Kartchner Caverns seems to get a fair bit of tourism as well. Wilcox also has wineries, but I don't know anyone who would come to AZ for the wine.

chrisair · Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:56 pm

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 41):
You seem keenly astute on Southeastern Arizona, and the plight of the red squirrels on Mt Graham.

I've only lived in Arizona 14 years...11 of them in Tucson. The red squirrels are pretty cool, if I must say so myself.

VAM8789 · Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:21 pm

I try and fly B6 exclusively, but their flight times on BOS-PHX

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 41):
All that aside, B6 in PHX is not designed to serve people from Arizona, it's for the people in Boston and New York. There's no point to put those single flights in AZA.

That's probably true however the flights time on the BOS-PHX sector is poor for a tourist, imo. I am flying BOS-PHX-BOS in May and the BOS-PHX sector leaves BOS at 8:25 pm and arrives in PHX at 11:08 pm. By the time you get your bags and a rental car, it'll probably be 11:45. Tough to drive up to Sedona, or Grand Canyon National Park at that hour. Especially when your body thinks it's 1:45 am. I am staying in a hotel in North Phoenix before making the drive up to GCNP the next day.

However, for a PHX base business traveler the times might be attractive. Red-eye into Boston or NYC, full day, then the return flight to PHX leaves after 7 pm from both BOS and JFK.

hz747300 · Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 44):
However, for a PHX base business traveler the times might be attractive. Red-eye into Boston or NYC, full day, then the return flight to PHX leaves after 7 pm from both BOS and JFK.

Given ~5 hours in each direction, that sounds like pure hell, but I'm sure some do it. They must be catatonic when they get home after midnight.

IMissPiedmont · Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:14 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):

I'm afraid that Willy is really a bitch to get to for most people. My brother just bought a house in the area and when I went to visit, I took the drive down Queen Creek road. Not at all a nice drive.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 43):

Newbie.

INFINITI329 · Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:08 am

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 44):
That's probably true however the flights time on the BOS-PHX sector is poor for a tourist, imo. I am flying BOS-PHX-BOS in May and the BOS-PHX sector leaves BOS at 8:25 pm and arrives in PHX at 11:08 pm

I believe it geared to travelers for the return flight. Arrivals into both BOS & JFK sync perfectly with outbound connections on B6 and code-share partners.

aeroblogger · Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:18 am

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 44):
That's probably true however the flights time on the BOS-PHX sector is poor for a tourist, imo.

Quite contrary, I think they're great. Leave BOS Friday after work, get back Monday morning in time for work. Really helps maximize vacation time.

chrisair · Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:38 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 46):
Newbie.

Gotta start somewhere.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 45):
Given ~5 hours in each direction, that sounds like pure hell, but I'm sure some do it. They must be catatonic when they get home after midnight.

I'm catatonic when I do a SEA day trip. Can't imagine going to Boston and back.

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 44):
Tough to drive up to Sedona, or Grand Canyon National Park at that hour. Especially when your body thinks it's 1:45 am. I am staying in a hotel in North Phoenix before making the drive up to GCNP the next day.

Why on earth would you drive to the Grand Canyon at 11pm? I don't even think the park gates are open at that hour.

Besides, it's just a huge hole in the ground.

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