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KarelXWB
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Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:34 am

Boeing has launched the 737-800 converted freighter program, with orders and commitments for up to 55 conversions.

Quote:
Modifications will be done at selected facilities near conversion demand, including Boeing Shanghai.

Modifications required include the installation of a large main-deck cargo door, a cargo-handling system and accommodation for non-flying crew or passengers. The first 737-800 Boeing Converted Freighter is expected to be delivered in the fourth quarter of 2017, it adds.

The aircraft will have the capacity to carry up to 52,800 pounds of cargo, and a range of about 2,000nm. Boeing says 12 pallet positions, comprising 11 standard pallets and one half-pallet, will provide 5,000 cubic feet of cargo space on the main deck. There will also be two lower-lobe compartments, which will provide a further 1,540 cubic feet of cargo space.

Ref Boeing Granted Authority To Offer 737-800BCF (by LAXintl Oct 23 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Source
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-02-...ing-Converted-Freighter#assets_117
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...nches-737-800bcf-programme-422323/

http://imagr.eu/up/PrS0O_737BCF_CargoLoadingNight_Medium.jpg
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:16 pm

I'd love to see the internal layout for this. I wonder if the accomodation for non-flying crew and pax is placed right in front of the cargo door. There seems to be quite a bit of room there. I don't believe that area will be used for pallets, unless it's for the half pallet.

I also wonder if it would be possible to fit ACT type fuel bladders in the lower cargo hold to increase range enough for TATL missions. After all, it can't carry containers in the belly.

In comparison, the 757-200F has 15 pallet positions and 6600+1830 cubic feet, compared to 11,5 and 5000+1540 cubic feet for the 737-800BCF.
 
queb
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:36 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 1):
I'd love to see the internal layout for this. I wonder if the accomodation for non-flying crew and pax is placed right in front of the cargo door.

No, the cargo hold stop just behind the passenger door.

http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/boeing-edge/assets/images/news/boeing-launches-next-generation-737-boeing-converted-freighter-program/737ng-cargo-cutaway.jpg
 
flyiguy
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:48 pm

Alaska and Ethiopian will be happy...wonder if FedEx or UPS would purchase any.

FLY
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:20 pm

Does anybody think we will see this conversion for the other 737NG variants?
 
flightsimer
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:44 pm

In that rendering, it looks like the plane may get the MAX nose wheel as the plane looks level.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:14 pm

Wonder what the difference between this STC and the AEI 737-800 conversion is going to end up being.

-DiamondFlyer
 
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nikeson13
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:40 pm

Somewhat surprised that it holds 6000lbs less than the 727-200F, but then I realized its also 27ft shorter so that number seems right. Congrats to Boeing!

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 3):
Alaska and Ethiopian will be happy...wonder if FedEx or UPS would purchase any.

I feel like mid-2020's FedEx and UPS may re-evaluate their concept that they've adapted to since the retiring of the 727-200F of flying wide bodies from hubs to big cities/airports in a region and then use feeder A/C to go to the little airports, possibly in some areas a 737-800BCF or two work out better than a MD-11F and a couple of C208s. Maybe the Amazon cargo airline may like it...?   

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 4):
Does anybody think we will see this conversion for the other 737NG variants?

I can see some 737-900BCFs to possibly help some 757-200F's that are getting old, and a couple 737-700BCFs for places where the 738 can't go. I believe a couple of AS 737-700s are being converted in Israel right now to replace the 737-400F/Cs they have.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 5):
In that rendering, it looks like the plane may get the MAX nose wheel as the plane looks level.

I feel that this would be unfeasible since it is just a conversion and no noes would be replaced since it would just be extra $$$, but I could be wrong.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:44 pm

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 4):
Does anybody think we will see this conversion for the other 737NG variants?

I expect not as Boeing already had the 737-700C and the 737-900 would likely make a poor freighter platform.



Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 6):
Wonder what the difference between this STC and the AEI 737-800 conversion is going to end up being.

They're identical in payload capacity / weight and range so I imagine it comes down to conversion cost on which one an operator chooses.
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:06 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
They're identical in payload capacity / weight and range so I imagine it comes down to conversion cost on which one an operator chooses.

Plus 55 conversions would pretty much keep AEI swamped for half a decade.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:09 pm

Great news!!! Bet Alaska will get half a dozen, in the Mexican market it could get some orders because of cargo traffic to the USA and Canada.

Guess Ill be dead before the last 737 is retired...

TRB
 
trex8
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:06 pm

Quoting nikeson13 (Reply 7):
Somewhat surprised that it holds 6000lbs less than the 727-200F, but then I realized its also 27ft shorter so that number seems right. Congrats to Boeing!

That must be overall length not cabin length, no way is the 737=800 cabin 30 feet shorter than a 727-200
 
UA444
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:44 pm

Quoting nikeson13 (Reply 7):
I can see some 737-900BCFs to possibly help some 757-200F's that are getting old

The 737-900 would not be a good freighter. Too many weight and balance issues.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:16 am

Surprised they didn't start with the 73G, as I understand the 737-800 has more CG issues...

But great start nonetheless!

P.S. Wouldn't AS want a 738 combi to replace the current 734 combis? Seems like they could work that off of the 737-700C type certificate...
 
Flaps
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:30 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 11):
That must be overall length not cabin length, no way is the 737=800 cabin 30 feet shorter than a 727-200

It's Overall Length:

727-200 = 153'2"
737-800 = 129'6"

The 727 has a considerably longer fuselage but the 737-800 makes better interior use of its fuselage. There is a lot of space behind the cabin in the 727. On the 727 freighters there is also some space ahead of position 1 and the cockpit of the 727 is longer vs the 737-800.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:56 am

Quoting nikeson13 (Reply 7):
Somewhat surprised that it holds 6000lbs less than the 727-200F, but then I realized its also 27ft shorter so that number seems right.

You're comparing overall length which is misleading since the T-tail makes the overall length of the 722 quite a bit longer.

The fuselage length of the 727-200 (136 ft. 2 in.) is a little over 11 ft. longer than the 738 fuselage (124 ft. 9 in.) but the actual cabin length is roughly the same since a significant part of the 727-200 fuselage is taken up by the rear structure to which the engines are attached.

Count the windows on the 722 and 738 and you'll see that the cabin lengths are about the same.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:11 am

Quoting nikeson13 (Reply 7):
Somewhat surprised that it holds 6000lbs less than the 727-200F, but then I realized its also 27ft shorter so that number seems right.

Most of that longer length on the 727 was the rear tail & engine positions, not cabin. But the 727 with 3 engines had an advantage for single engine out T-O & operation. (34800 lb with one engine fail vs 27300 lb.) even in cruise with a heavier load the added thrust would help keep it up. It had 28 rows @ 32" + around 38" if you remove the rear lavatories vs the 737-800 29 rows. So overall its a bust. But the 727F had stronger floors making the the load greater.

[Edited 2016-02-24 17:17:54]
 
KELPkid
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:30 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 16):
So overall its a bust. But the 727F had stronger floors making the the load greater.

I'm sure part of a freighter conversion for the 738 is going to be stronger floors  
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:01 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 13):

AS has their first 73G in freighter conversion at TLV as we speak.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:10 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 17):

Boeing does not do a lot of floor strengthening on the conversions. Most of that is done on the freighter only floor. That's why the 747-490bcf carries a lot less cargo than the 747-400f did. Conversions usually have a cargo door added, most galley/lav removed & cargo floor added so containers can be locked in place or restraints can be added.

[Edited 2016-02-24 18:15:12]

[Edited 2016-02-24 18:16:39]
 
roseflyer
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 1):

I also wonder if it would be possible to fit ACT type fuel bladders in the lower cargo hold to increase range enough for TATL missions. After all, it can't carry containers in the belly.

Flying transatlantic with a 737 freighter would be a bit ridiculous. Unless you are carrying balloons, there is not much need for that type of range. 757Fs barely make sense for transatlantic flying. The plane just can't carry enough weight.

Freighters do sometimes carry bulk freight. I have seen bulk freight loaded in the back of a 747 lower cargo hold. It really depends on the cargo. For an airline carrying express freight like fed ex then yes the lower holds would be used. For heavier freight, I doubt they would be volume limited.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:42 am

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 20):
Freighters do sometimes carry bulk freight. I have seen bulk freight loaded in the back of a 747 lower cargo hold. It really depends on the cargo. For an airline carrying express freight like fed ex then yes the lower holds would be used. For heavier freight, I doubt they would be volume limited.

I see bulk loading all the time on freighters. Especially the 757. They load what they can into containers and they bulk load the rest.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:34 am

Usable volume for the 727-200F is around 193 cubic meters compared to 185 cubic meters for the 737-800.

The 727-200F can lift around 30,000kg compared to 24,000kg for the 737-800.

Design range for the 727-200F is around 2600km compared to 3700km for the 737-800.
 
Rage
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:15 am

There is a rumor that FedEx was in talks very recently for 737-700F to fit between the ATR-72 and the 757.

[Edited 2016-02-24 22:33:39]
 
b747400erf
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:42 am

Quoting theredbaron (Reply 10):
Bet Alaska will get half a dozen, in the Mexican market it could get some orders because of cargo traffic to the USA and Canada.

Alaska is planning on expanding their freight network beyond the state of Alaska? I highly doubt they are going to start creating a freight network to compete with the main cargo airlines. And most freight out of Mexico is by truck, air is too expensive for many products it makes the cheaper costs of making things in Mexico disappear.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:48 am

AS won't be interested; they're taking 3 owned 73Gs and converting them to pure freighters in TLV; the first one just arrived this week.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:13 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
And most freight out of Mexico is by truck, air is too expensive for many products it makes the cheaper costs of making things in Mexico disappear.

There is a huge, booming market for air cargo out of Mexico, and specialized carriers who fly it (like Kalitta Air). It is for auto parts manufactured in Mexico destined for US auto plants. The automotive industry is extremely time sensitive...
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 20):
Flying transatlantic with a 737 freighter would be a bit ridiculous.

I see. Don't you think it could work from Reykjavik for example? Icelandair has ordered a bunch of 737, and their 757s can't keep going forever. And that's where the fish comes in..      
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:41 pm

Bluebird Cargo is using 737-300 and -400.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:31 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 26):

There is a huge, booming market for air cargo out of Mexico, and specialized carriers who fly it (like Kalitta Air). It is for auto parts manufactured in Mexico destined for US auto plants. The automotive industry is extremely time sensitive...

Huge? It's so huge that every non American freighter goes out of MEX to America empty.

It's a small market and handled by a small number of cargo airlines. If these routes are so profitable you'd see every major tripping over themselves bidding on contracts, not 30 year old DC-9 and 727 freighters flying a limited number of routes.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-800BCF

Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:36 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 26):
(like Kalitta Air

I've worked here going on a year and I think we've flown to Mexico once.

The short-notice parts charter specialists on the other hand, like Kalitta Charters, USA Jet, IFL group, etc. all fly in and out of Mexico fairly frequently. That's not regular, scheduled air freight though, it's essentially emergency situations for automotive supply chains.

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