Republic Air To Reorganize Via Bankruptcy

floridaflyboy · Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:43 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 144):
no you are thinking of US. US sold its commuter slots at DCA to YX but I think US bought them back not that long ago.

He's talking about the DL flights to MSN and OMA. They are old F9 routes that Republic moved to the DL operation when F9 was divested. They are in Republic's name.

You are correct that the actual slots RAH owned were sold to US during the F9 era in order to get quick cash back into the company.

[Edited 2016-03-15 07:44:49]

LAXintl · Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:41 am

RAH and Delta reach agreement to restructure their codeshare relationship.

All 50-seater flying will be wound down, with 30 E170/175 flying remaining subject to higher rates. They also settled litigation between the companies.

Delta also will provide $75mil financing to RAH as part of its restructuring.

Republic Airways Holdings Inc. and Delta Air Lines, Inc. Reach Comprehensive Agreement on a Long-Term Commercial Relationship
http://www.aviator.aero/press_releases/28238

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[Edited 2016-03-24 18:12:32]

crazytoaster · Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:09 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 151):

Thanks for the update on RAH! That is one key issue resolved then. Republic was caught way off guard when they decided to keep the 50 seaters longer.

Now to see what happens with the CS order.

toltommy · Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:28 am

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 152):

Thanks for the update on RAH! That is one key issue resolved then.

So now they've gone from understaffed to overstaffed. They were staffing some to most of the 145 flying, and now the planes are gone.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 151):
Delta also will provide $75mil financing to RAH as part of its restructuring.

Debtor in possession financing. You gotta wonder how well that will go over with UA and AA. Delta also provided DIP financing to a little airline once known as Pinnacle. Could Delta's move be designed to end up in control of Republic and to force AA and UA to find someone new to fly the planes Republic flies for them now?

deltal1011man · Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:50 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 153):

So now they've gone from understaffed to overstaffed. They were staffing some to most of the 145 flying, and now the planes are gone.

Probably not. If they are over staffed it isn't going to be for long. Also I believe they generally had 15-18 E45s flying somewhat consistently. I believe they are still taking 175s for both UA and AA so they will need the bodies.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 153):

Debtor in possession financing. You gotta wonder how well that will go over with UA and AA. Delta also provided DIP financing to a little airline once known as Pinnacle. Could Delta's move be designed to end up in control of Republic and to force AA and UA to find someone new to fly the planes Republic flies for them now?

my money is on two things
DL trying to buy RH and hurt AA/UA (which would be interesting because I think RH owns most of its own planes.) Or maybe DL, since it is in the MRO, ground handling, Private jet, vacation etc. etc. business maybe by RH and operate for UA/AA anyways. (highly unlikely IMO)

or they are trying to get the C-series order. Interesting things going to be happening in the DL fleet over the next few months.....

alasizon · Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:34 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 153):
So now they've gone from understaffed to overstaffed. They were staffing some to most of the 145 flying, and now the planes are gone.

As I recall they had 6 175s for UA and 9 or so for AA that weren't staffed already so the E145 bodies will fill this gap.

antoniemey · Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:52 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 153):
Could Delta's move be designed to end up in control of Republic and to force AA and UA to find someone new to fly the planes Republic flies for them now?

Possible, but unlikely to really put a huge dent in UA or AA.

AA owns a couple of regional partners and already has them flying the E175, so their only big challenge would be if their regionals have the pilots. They'd work something out... or speed up their plans for the 100-seat aircraft, be it the E190/195 E2 or C-Series.

While UA, unlike AA and DL, doesn't own any regional carriers, they do have good relations with Skywest/ExpressJet and they're the only airline that's been willing to give Trans States more flying of late. They could find someone to fly a few more E175s and E170s for them if they needed to. Or they actually order the 100-seat jet that they've put off somewhat with the recent deal on 737s.

INFINITI329 · Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:12 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 151):
Delta also will provide $75mil financing to RAH as part of its restructuring.

Does this give DL a stake in RJET?

floridaflyboy · Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:04 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 153):
So now they've gone from understaffed to overstaffed. They were staffing some to most of the 145 flying, and now the planes are gone.

Not at all. The pilots from the 145 operation will simply allow them to staff the E-Jets that are sitting around on the ramp in IND/CMH/PIT/MCI doing nothing. They'll also still be hiring full-force for the foreseeable future.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 154):
Probably not. If they are over staffed it isn't going to be for long. Also I believe they generally had 15-18 E45s flying somewhat consistently. I believe they are still taking 175s for both UA and AA so they will need the bodies.

Still taking 175s for UA at a very slow trickle. AA deliveries have been completed for quite some time, though.

bhmdiversion · Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:31 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 157):

Yes it does. Delta will use this as leverage to kill off United and American contracts with Republic. This is the same when the purchased Pinnacle, Mesaba, and turned Colgan into the scapegoat.

flyDTW1992 · Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:47 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 159):
Yes it does. Delta will use this as leverage to kill off United and American contracts with Republic. This is the same when the purchased Pinnacle, Mesaba, and turned Colgan into the scapegoat.

Something creative's going to have to happen, then. Much larger fleets for UA and AA at Republic than those 30 EJets for Delta, I don't think Mesa, Skywest, etc. can simply absorb all those frames at a moment's notice.

Maybe DL acquires the S5 certificate and merges it with Endeavor or something like that, Republic Airlines remains independent and continues to fly for AA and UA?

LAXintl · Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:28 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 157):
Does this give DL a stake in RJET?

No.

Per DIP court documents, its a simple 5.75% plus 1% upfront fee, up-to 1-year term loan, due at BK exit unless RJET assets were to be largely acquired by someone, then the loan would be due immediately as part of the transaction.

For security, DL gets liens on 1 E170 aircraft and 12 engines, plus some other unencumbered assets.

Polot · Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:21 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 154):
DL trying to buy RH and hurt AA/UA (which would be interesting because I think RH owns most of its own planes.)

How many more large RJs can DL get before they hit their limit though?

flightsimer · Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:49 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 162):

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 154):
DL trying to buy RH and hurt AA/UA (which would be interesting because I think RH owns most of its own planes.)

How many more large RJs can DL get before they hit their limit though?

If you go off Wiki numbers, 4.

My guess is it's probably somewhere between 5-15. Either way, they are almost at their 70/76 seat cap.

DiamondFlyer · Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:04 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 163):
My guess is it's probably somewhere between 5-15. Either way, they are almost at their 70/76 seat cap.

What about as the E190's come online? Does that change the large RJ fleet numbers.

-DiamondFlyer

enilria · Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:10 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 161):

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 151):

I only see things that benefit Republic. My guess is that DL got a super-priority claim. A huge claim they can use to control Republic. It's exactly what Republic did to F9, and I love the irony. I wonder if DL takes control completely? It would seem they'd want rid of BB after what transpired.

miaskies · Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:26 pm

People forget YX forked over millions of dollars to both DL and US during their financial troubles...it all comes around, you shake my hand, I shake yours.

deltal1011man · Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:05 am

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 158):

Still taking 175s for UA at a very slow trickle. AA deliveries have been completed for quite some time, though.

whoops thanks.

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 160):

Maybe DL acquires the S5 certificate and merges it with Endeavor or something like that, Republic Airlines remains independent and continues to fly for AA and UA?

Wont happen. IF DL ends up getting a certificate from YX they would likely keep one EMB operating and one BBD operating. Makes it a little easier plus they can play labor off each other to keep costs down.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 163):

My guess is it's probably somewhere between 5-15. Either way, they are almost at their 70/76 seat cap.

correct. I think OO if adding some CR7s for DL which will cause it to get closer to the cap.

Quoting Polot (Reply 162):

How many more large RJs can DL get before they hit their limit though?

it wouldn't matter tho. DL would probably park the planes they dont want (wouldn't shock me to see some CR7/CR9s parked for more e-jets) and sell them. It would just give them a quick way to screw AA/UA.

Much like AA did when it bought BizEX.....

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 164):

What about as the E190's come online? Does that change the large RJ fleet numbers.

no. in the failed TA DL wanted to trade IIRC 70 E90s and 25 50-seaters for 25 more 76 seaters.

Quoting miaskies (Reply 166):

People forget YX forked over millions of dollars to both DL and US during their financial troubles

when did YX help DL?

LAXintl · Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:05 am

Per company news last remaining 2 Q400's were parked last week. Also the 50-seater ERJ flying is now planned to end in September for DL.

Also sounds like good portion of the E170 fleet likely will be rejected in BK, in order to become an all E175 airline.

flightsimer · Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:10 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 168):
Also sounds like good portion of the E170 fleet likely will be rejected in BK, in order to become an all E175 airline.

Any documents to back that up? they said they wanted to shed 100 aircraft when they entered, which they had ~70 ERJ-145's and the ~30 Q400's.

There should be no reason for it and I believe they own almost all of the EJets, I know for sure none of the 175's are leased.

FlyASAGuy2005 · Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:49 am

What's going on with the AA flying? There seems to be some sort of temporary draw down of Ejet flying on the AA side. Word of some aircraft being parked for up to a month if not longer.

DiamondFlyer · Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 168):
Per company news last remaining 2 Q400's were parked last week. Also the 50-seater ERJ flying is now planned to end in September for DL.

Makes sense, seems to fit the timeline of the 9E 200's returning from the desert into operations to cover that flying.

-DiamondFlyer

LAXintl · Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:02 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 169):
Any documents to back that up? they said they wanted to shed 100 aircraft when they entered, which they had ~70 ERJ-145's and the ~30 Q400's.
There should be no reason for it and I believe they own almost all of the EJets, I know for sure none of the 175's are leased.

Company news - talking about rejecting 170s prior to April 25th deadline. Also from other sources I've heard E170 lines are empty for May. So lets see.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 170):
What's going on with the AA flying? There seems to be some sort of temporary draw down of Ejet flying on the AA side. Word of some aircraft being parked for up to a month if not longer.

Seems they have largely agreed on revised agreement with AA for flying and have spent last week working on near-term schedules.

flightsimer · Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:56 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 172):
Company news - talking about rejecting 170s prior to April 25th deadline. Also from other sources I've heard E170 lines are empty for May. So lets see.

Rgr that, yeah I saw it mentioned on the APC thread as well.

I have been trying to follow the BK but the website for the BK is not that great for trying to decipher what documents actually have something worth reading in them based off of their little description, so I sort of gave up.

INFINITI329 · Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:37 am

why are they killing off 70 aircraft worth of lift. I dont see how this is beneficial. Its roughly a 6 seat difference between the 170 & 175.

alasizon · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:30 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 172):
Company news - talking about rejecting 170s prior to April 25th deadline. Also from other sources I've heard E170 lines are empty for May. So lets see.

All E70s will stop flying effective April 25th. Other carriers and ML will pick up slack.

deltal1011man · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:40 am

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 174):

Less airplanes to staff

eugdjinn · Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:42 am

Doesn't rejecting the E170s hurt mostly Delta? I thought the deal was that they were being replaced in United service by 175s and as they were they went to the paint shop, got a little interior spiffing up and then went to the Delta contract. I cannot imagine that Mama Delta would be terribly happy about losing the lift of the 145s, -and- the 170s at the same time. The whole point of the lawsuits was that Republic had turned their backs on one of their first partners (Delta) to go courting new business, right? And here Delta is holding the trump (no pun) card of debtor in possession finance.

What is the card that has yet to drop?

Oh - and don't forget folks, it isn't just Endeavor that is scrambling to ready CRJ200s to take up that slack for Republic's failure to fly their commitments - ExpressJet has been and continues to pull its fleet out of the desert as well to make up the holes left by the 145s.

deltal1011man · Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:26 pm

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 177):

Are you sure about DL getting more 170s? I haven't see anything about that

I show S5 having 10-15 E70s so it's not a big loss of lift. Very possible CP (who also has 170s for DL) could take them on if DL/CP can work out a deal.

flightsimer · Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:21 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 174):

why are they killing off 70 aircraft worth of lift. I dont see how this is beneficial. Its roughly a 6 seat difference between the 170 & 175.

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 175):
All E70s will stop flying effective April 25th. Other carriers and ML will pick up slack.

They are not dropping the entire E170 fleet.

From another site:
They may reject UP TO 23 frames by April 25th. These frames are currently either A) sitting and NOT being flown or B) currently are flying but will be replaced by the numerous E175's currently not being flown

INFINITI329 · Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:10 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 178):
I show S5 having 10-15 E70s so it's not a big loss of lift. Very possible CP (who also has 170s for DL) could take them on if DL/CP can work out a deal.

According to the FAA S5 has 60 E-170s on their certificate. How many are active I am unsure

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 179):
From another site:
They may reject UP TO 23 frames by April 25th. These frames are currently either A) sitting and NOT being flown or B) currently are flying but will be replaced by the numerous E175's currently not being flown

This makes a little more sense, than dropping the entire e170 fleet. Sounds like Republic stretched themselves way thinner than I thought. I thoughts parking the e145s would have alleviated their problems put now having to park some e170s as well... ouch.

Who has the staffing take on additional e170 flying? Or could we see these jets swallowed up my wholly owned operation?

alasizon · Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:47 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 180):
This makes a little more sense, than dropping the entire e170 fleet. Sounds like Republic stretched themselves way thinner than I thought. I thoughts parking the e145s would have alleviated their problems put now having to park some e170s as well... ouch.

They are returning the 170s for AA, that is the flying that is stopping on April 25th. As far as the other 170s, I do not know.

INFINITI329 · Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:54 pm

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 181):
They are returning the 170s for AA, that is the flying that is stopping on April 25th. As far as the other 170s, I do not know.

I initially thought RP only operated 175s for AA. But then I remembered the 170s from the US side. Are these AA or YX owned birds?

floridaflyboy · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 168):
Also sounds like good portion of the E170 fleet likely will be rejected in BK, in order to become an all E175 airline.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 170):
What's going on with the AA flying? There seems to be some sort of temporary draw down of Ejet flying on the AA side. Word of some aircraft being parked for up to a month if not longer.

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 177):

Doesn't rejecting the E170s hurt mostly Delta?

There is absolutely no talk of rejecting any E70s except the 23 AA E70s, most of which are parked now and have been parked for months (drive by RAH hangars and IND, CMH, PIT, etc. and you'll get the drift). The UA and DL birds aren't part of that.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 178):
re you sure about DL getting more 170s? I haven't see anything about that

RAH and DL had signed for 9 more E70s two years ago that RAH was procuring on the second-hand market, which RAH continued to bump back over and over due to staffing problems. Technically, that arrangement hasn't been formally cancelled, but I certainly haven't seen any concrete plans to put them in place.

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 182):
I initially thought RP only operated 175s for AA. But then I remembered the 170s from the US side. Are these AA or YX owned birds?

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 169):
Any documents to back that up? they said they wanted to shed 100 aircraft when they entered, which they had ~70 ERJ-145's and the ~30 Q400's.

There should be no reason for it and I believe they own almost all of the EJets, I know for sure none of the 175's are leased.

All of RAH's aircraft are in RAH's name. They don't have any arrangements where they operate aircraft owned/held by their mainline partners. AA did essentially "cosign" on the 47 LAA 175s, but they're still in RAH's name. None of the others are even that close.

floridaflyboy · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:17 pm

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 177):
I thought the deal was that they were being replaced in United service by 175s and as they were they went to the paint shop, got a little interior spiffing up and then went to the Delta contract.

Not at all. The E70s currently in the DL operation came from the Midwest/F9 operation, not UA. As for UA, The E75s coming in are essentially replacing capacity removed via the Q400 drawdown. No UA E70s are leaving the fleet. They are simply being transferred at a rate of about 3 per month from UA-S5 to UA-YX.

jbs2886 · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:19 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 183):
RAH and DL had signed for 9 more E70s two years ago that RAH was procuring on the second-hand market, which RAH continued to bump back over and over due to staffing problems. Technically, that arrangement hasn't been formally cancelled, but I certainly haven't seen any concrete plans to put them in place.

I see the E70s for DL have 69 seats...do these count in the larger jet (I understand 70-76 seat) limitation?

floridaflyboy · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Quoting jbs2886 (Reply 185):
I see the E70s for DL have 69 seats...do these count in the larger jet (I understand 70-76 seat) limitation?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there essentially 3 buckets for DL RJs? I think there's the 50-seat category, then a middle category for the 65/69 seaters, and then the largest category for the 76 seaters. And I think each one has its own allotment.

[Edited 2016-04-11 11:22:29]

INFINITI329 · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:42 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 183):
There is absolutely no talk of rejecting any E70s except the 23 AA E70s, most of which are parked now and have been parked for months (drive by RAH hangars and IND, CMH, PIT, etc. and you'll get the drift). The UA and DL birds aren't part of that.

contract expired or chptr 11 backdoor?

floridaflyboy · Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:54 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 187):
contract expired or chptr 11 backdoor?

They're sitting because staffing isn't sufficient to fly them. They're still on contract. If/when they leave the fleet, it will either be through a negotiated drawdown and return-to-lessor agreement (would have to happen awfully quickly and is unlikely IMO). Otherwise (and more likely IMO) RAH will request to reject the aircraft in BK court.

LAXintl · Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:48 pm

Latest note from company says they have achieved agreement with all ERJ debt holders and lessors which will allow the orderly return of the entire ERJ portfolio.

They also reach settlement with "significant" number Ejet financiers and working to close out agreements over the weekend for the remainder in order to present them to the court before the 60-day time clock expires next week.

I guess one of the last issues left is figuring out financing for 24 E175 aircraft scheduled to be delivery this year. With Ch.11, entry into new agreements to finance the aircraft is difficult.

F9Animal · Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:14 pm

I suspect we will also see Bedford taking a walk from the airline soon. His bipolar airline tactics have really played a major role in what we see today. He has made so many drastic changes, it is finally showing the ultimate results. His fiasco disaster with Frontier and Midwest are classic examples of terrible execution. He has bitten off more than he could chew a few too many times.

I wish RAH the best, and I really hope in the end, changes are made starting at the top.

INFINITI329 · Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:30 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 190):

He should have departed the airline a long time ago. It is time RJET gets a new captain at the helm.

flightsimer · Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:40 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 183):
All of RAH's aircraft are in RAH's name. They don't have any arrangements where they operate aircraft owned/held by their mainline partners. AA did essentially "cosign" on the 47 LAA 175s, but they're still in RAH's name. None of the others are even that close.

From what I have read elsewhere, these 170's are going to be ex-MidAtlantic E170's which were operated by USAir itself prior to being "sold" to republic. So they would be from the 2004-2006 time frame of deliveries and are among the oldest Ejets in existence.

I have seen these being referred to as leased aircraft however. So they were either leased from a third party or they are trying to reject the financing on them from when they bought them 10 years ago.

DiamondFlyer · Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:50 pm

If you look on flightaware, there is a mass movement of Republic 170s scheduled to KRME today.

-DiamondFlyer

flightsimer · Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:00 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 193):

8 on the ground since Friday and another 8 scheduled for this afternoon/evening.

Confirmed on the ground there via Flightradar24

802MD (ln 13)
807MD (20)
812MD (30)
816MA (37)
822MD (43)

Prost · Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:16 pm

So 2004-2006 time frame is only 10-12 years old. Do they still have a good decade + available to them? Or are regional jets time frame less than mainline jets?

flightsimer · Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:42 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 195):
So 2004-2006 time frame is only 10-12 years old. Do they still have a good decade + available to them? Or are regional jets time frame less than mainline jets?

I would say Regionals are less since they theoretically should be doing frequent shorter hops compared to Mainline aircraft.

However, these are 170's. The 170's are not nearly as economical to operate compared to 175's as the 175's have been improved fairly decently in the last few years with aerodynamic improvements such as the new winglets and I believe some other changes... But the 175 also seats 6 more people.

miaskies · Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:12 pm

As a YX LGA flight attendant, I can confirm the YX 170 drawback started a week ago, our schedules for next month are nearly all 76 and 80 seat operations for AA out of LGA with a sprinkle of 69 seaters. These 69 seaters that are being retired are old Midwest birds - it is time for them to go - they have seen better days.

dsuairptman · Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:12 am

What is filling the void left by removing these planes?

DiamondFlyer · Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:16 am

Quoting miaskies (Reply 197):
These 69 seaters that are being retired are old Midwest birds - it is time for them to go - they have seen better days.

You know, if the company actually took care of them, they might not look the way they do. I'll bet the end up flying for some other carrier down the road and don't look nearly as bad as they do now.

That said, with the YX 170's going away and the scheduled wind down of the S5 145 operation now (which will mean a simplification of the Delta Connection system, in terms of fleet types) is the company even able to properly staff what they have left flying?

-DiamondFlyer

[Edited 2016-04-24 18:17:45]

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