New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 173

zkeoj · Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:10 am

Hi All

does anybody know which aircraft Barrier Air usually use on the AKL-HLZ-AKL run?

Cheers
micha

mariner · Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:55 pm

Interesting way to run a business:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...-crowdfund-2-million-for-new-plane

"Kiwi Regional Airlines plans to crowdfund $2 million for new plane

The new aircraft would be a Saab 340 QC used for passenger and freight charters and as a backup for maintenance of its existing aircraft Saab 340A.

Last month the Hamilton airline cancelled flights after grounding the 34-seater aircraft for unscheduled maintenance.

While the Saab was out of action Kiwi Regional called in Air Chathams to run the service using its 50-seat Convair 580."

mariner

sunrisevalley · Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:31 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 151):
"Kiwi Regional Airlines plans to crowdfund $2 million for new plane

The guy has balls ! I just might send him a dollar !

Gasman · Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:40 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 152):
Quoting mariner (Reply 151):
"Kiwi Regional Airlines plans to crowdfund $2 million for new plane

The guy has balls ! I just might send him a dollar !

Gareth Morgan has pledged $200,000; but only if him and his family have exclusive access to the seats by the toilet.

nzrich · Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:19 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 148):
But someone is still flying them . So what pilot group are they in?

The 767 is just another group in the Air NZ pilots group so A320 767 787 and 777 are all in the same pilot contract they just operate different group . Unlike the cabin crew A320 Short haul/Domestic 767/787 Mid Haul and 777 long haul crew .

nzrich

NZ107 · Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:45 am

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 150):
does anybody know which aircraft Barrier Air usually use on the AKL-HLZ-AKL run?

Cessna Grand Caravan

zkeoj · Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:54 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 155):
Cessna Grand Caravan

*yawn*

Thanks, Nick!

ZaphodHarkonnen · Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 pm

Defence Force eyes new submarine spotters

Quote:

Defence Force eyes new submarine spotters

Kate Pereyra Garcia, Defence Reporter - [email protected]

The Defence Force is set to ask the government for approval to upgrade the submarine detection systems on its Orion planes.

Boeing has been chosen as the preferred tenderer if the upgrade, which will cost tens of millions of dollars, goes ahead.

The current underwater intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systems are 50 years old, the same age as the P-3K2 Orion planes themselves.

Despite the former Labour government deciding not to upgrade the anti-submarine warfare systems more than a decade ago, the matter is back before the government.

...

*rest of the story in the link*

Don't know if the government will fund it or decide to hold off until the P3 replacement. Especially with some major capital projects already on the horizon. Frigates and transports to name two.

PA515 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:38 am

ZK-OKP arrived SIN as NZ6012 90 mins ago. So, bye bye Hobbits.

Also, ZK-OKE has been out of action in AKL since 18 Feb. Wondered if this is just routine maintenance or if extra fire suppression is being added for EDTO flights.

PA515

[Edited 2016-03-08 22:40:17]

Mr AirNZ · Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:36 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 158):
ZK-OKP arrived SIN as NZ6012 90 mins ago. So, bye bye Hobbits.

Not being painted this visit.

PA515 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:56 am

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 159):
Not being painted this visit.

Bugger.

PA515

zkojq · Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:06 am

Speaking of liveries, will the first NEO (A320 or A321) be painted in a black livery similar to ZK-NZE and ZK-OAB?

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 159):
Not being painted this visit.

Great news!

Quoting PA515 (Reply 160):
Bugger

? Why? Cool liveries on OKP and OKQ are literally the old good thing about flying on an Air New Zealand 777 if you have a Y ticket.

ZKOJH · Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:39 am

things are really getting hot now for AKL airport.

Qatar Airways to fly to Auckland

Qatar Airways will begin direct flights to Auckland later this year as the airline continues its push into the Asia-Pacific region.
The daily flights will connect Auckland to Qatar's Doha hub, with over 50 onward services to the UK, Europe and Africa.
The Oneworld member began Sydney-Doha flights only last week and will extend its Australian network to Adelaide in May.
The Auckland route was announced at the ITB Berlin travel show overnight along with 13 other destinations across Europe, Africa and Asia.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qatar-airways-to-fly-to-auckland

IndianicWorld · Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:42 am

Good to see the rumour I heard quite a while ago has come to fruition.

EK vs QR will be interesting to see in AKL.

ZKOJH · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:00 pm

QR times are as follows;

QR 0921 Depart AKL @ 14:40 Arrive DOH @ 22:10 - 17Hr 30 mins - NON STOP!
QR 0920 Depart DOH @ 02:10 Arrive AKL @ 04:30 +1 - 16 hrs 20m NON STOP!

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qatar-launch...ongest-flight-17-hours-to-auckland

they will also have an agreement with jetstar to fly onward to regional ports throughout New Zealand.

the first 2 flights onwards are the;

JQ251 TO WLG (05:25) and JQ361 NPL, (06:00) nothing then till the JQ225 to CHC @ 06:45.

with a 10 hour ground time in AKL were going to see so many nice airlines resting.

kiwiandrew · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:09 pm

@ZKOJH^

Have they announced a start date anywhere? It seems quite unusual to announce the flight schedule without saying when it is effective, but so far I haven't seen anything more than a vague "towards the end of the year".

P.S. it might be a bit optimistic to attempt a 55 minute connection at AKL from an inbound international flight to an outbound domestic as you have suggested above

smi0006 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:58 pm

Out of curiosity, how much of the NZ fleet is left to paint? Apart from the 767s.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 165):

Have they announced a start date anywhere? It seems quite unusual to announce the flight schedule without saying when it is effective, but so far I haven't seen anything more than a vague "towards the end of the year".

6th of December I believe

aerorobnz · Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:38 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 166):
Out of curiosity, how much of the NZ fleet is left to paint? Apart from the 767s.

7 out of 8 772s. OKP left for QPG yesterday. Repaint finally? That leaves OKM (and OKQ in old allblack livery) in old.

ZK-MCX and not more than a couple of different DH8s I spotted in old livery on my 8 sector domestic flying weekend + all the 1900Ds

zkncj · Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 164):
JQ251 TO WLG (05:25) and JQ361 NPL, (06:00) nothing then till the JQ225 to CHC @ 06:45.

The 05:25 would be pretty unlikely that you would make it, when the inbound flight is at 04:30. I wonder what Jetstar's policy is when you miss connect from an Long-Haul like that? will they put you on the next flight or try to make you buy an ticket? not to mention that if you miss you connection to some ports there next flight can be a couple of hours away.

mariner · Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:31 am

Qatar announcement, from the Herald, with date:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11603279

"Qatar Airways coming to NZ - confirmed

Qatar Airways has confirmed it will begin a non-stop, more than 18 hour service between Doha and Auckland - set to become the world's longest flight - on December 3."

mariner

zkojq · Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:02 am

With all three of today's EK A380s substantially delayed (due to weather in Dubai) and the first just landed in AKL (~1800) I'd imagine that there's going to be a fair bit of chaos in the International terminal this evening.

Unrelated, I was thinking the other day about all the many 5th freedom flights we get going into AKL:
SYD has China Airlines, LAN and Emirates.
BNE has China Airlines and Emirates,
MEL has Emirates,
CNS has Philippines Airlines,
OOL will have Air Asia X soon.

I wonder if any carriers will go via ADE or PER in the near future. I'm sure that Etihad or Emirates would love to add a PER fifth freedom if they had the rights to do so. If Qatar wasn't flying directly to AKL, flying via PER would surely be a logical choice. I wonder where ADE fits into all of this? QR is starting a new service there later this year. If Garuda flew to Adelaide, maybe that would be a way for them to restart flights to AKL. Of course, we do have to keep things in perspective, bearing in mind that NZ to ADE traffic is much lower than even OOL. Thoughts?

Quoting SXI899 (Reply 120):

Just curious; what software is that?

[Edited 2016-03-09 21:47:42]

NZ1 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:57 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 167):

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 166):
Out of curiosity, how much of the NZ fleet is left to paint? Apart from the 767s.

7 out of 8 772s. OKP left for QPG yesterday. Repaint finally? That leaves OKM (and OKQ in old allblack livery) in old.

ZK-MCX and not more than a couple of different DH8s I spotted in old livery on my 8 sector domestic flying weekend + all the 1900Ds

OKP is NOT being painted whilst in Singapore.

7 of the 772 fleet left to paint. Most will ge done this year.
3 of the 773 fleet left to paint. Should all he done before the end of the year.
1 A320 left to paint. Will be done soon.
3 ATR's left to paint. These are NOT being repainted due to being retired within the next 18 months or so.
11 Q300's left to paint. Will be done this year and early next year.

NZ1

PA515 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:07 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 171):
OKP is NOT being painted whilst in Singapore.

7 of the 772 fleet left to paint. Most will ge done this year.
3 of the 773 fleet left to paint. Should all he done before the end of the year.
1 A320 left to paint. Will be done soon.
3 ATR's left to paint. These are NOT being repainted due to being retired within the next 18 months or so.
11 Q300's left to paint. Will be done this year and early next year.

Thanks.

PA515

[Edited 2016-03-10 01:11:25]

Gasman · Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:51 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 163):
EK vs QR will be interesting to see in AKL

Could be very interesting. EK have the hype and the momentum at AKL, but QR have the better Y and J hard product.

zkojq · Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:45 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 171):
1 A320 left to paint. Will be done soon.

Are you able to elaborate on how soon? I've only managed to get one photo of ZK-OJO in the Teal livery and it wasn't a particularly good one.

coolian2 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:54 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 170):
With all three of today's EK A380s substantially delayed (due to weather in Dubai) and the first just landed in AKL (~1800) I'd imagine that there's going to be a fair bit of chaos in the International terminal this evening.

Ah! I was at Manukau today and bickered with my partner that the A380 parade was later than usual! Glad to have it validated.

PA515 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:58 am

Just noticed a second flightradar24 receiver in the Marquesas, F-NTMN1, presently picking up NZ28 AKL-IAH. F-NTMD1 is on Nuku Hiva and F-NTMN1 is on Hiva Oa.

PA515

sunrisevalley · Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:59 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 173):
Could be very interesting. EK have the hype and the momentum at AKL, but QR have the better Y and J hard product.

what do you know about differences, if any, in catering standards between the two?

Gasman · Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:59 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 177):
Could be very interesting. EK have the hype and the momentum at AKL, but QR have the better Y and J hard product.

what do you know about differences, if any, in catering standards between the two?

Nothing. I've not flown QR, but if the online reports are anything to go by their catering standards in a general sense are as high, if not higher, than EK's. I was referring more to the seating - QR have 2-2-2 on the 77W in J whereas EK still have 2-3-2; and QR is 9 abreast in Y as opposed to 10. That makes a *big* difference to comfort in Y, particularly on a 17 hour flight.

I won't be flying QR anytime soon though. The management of the airline is reactionary and paternalistic with a good dose of ME nepotism thrown in too.

QR Pilots Fired Over Miami Runway Accident (by rotating14 Mar 3 2016 in Civil Aviation)

aerorobnz · Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:07 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 173):
but QR have the better Y

QR have committed to 3-4-3 777s by the time of dec there will be a number of refits flying. It won't be 'better' for long. QR has similar IFE to EK ICE. Thankfully we won't be getting the QR 787s which are known to be tight and narrow even for 787s.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 177):
what do you know about differences, if any, in catering standards between the two?

There are no real differences that I have noticed Y to Y EK/QR that I have seen from my flights..

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 171):
OKP is NOT being painted whilst in Singapore.

That's a shame, I thought it was set to be repainted last november before it was deferred. OKP is so dated.

zkeoj · Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:38 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 155):
Cessna Grand Caravan

I was lucky today: Firstly, they opeated ZK-FOP, instead of ZK-SDB. And secondly, on AKL-HLZ I shared the aircraft with one other passenger and three crew, and on HLZ-AKL I had a private flight with three crew, i.e. no other passenger...

Cheers
micha

[Edited 2016-03-10 19:44:39]

[Edited 2016-03-10 19:45:17]

777ER · Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:08 am

NZ and UA are having a JV on AKL-SFO UA And NZ Form Revenue-sharing JV (by jetblastdubai Mar 10 2016 in Civil Aviation)

NZ1 · Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:44 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 174):

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 171):
1 A320 left to paint. Will be done soon.

Are you able to elaborate on how soon? I've only managed to get one photo of ZK-OJO in the Teal livery and it wasn't a particularly good one.

Due to be repainted in May.

NZ1

jrfspa320 · Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:49 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 179):

I thought only the 773s were going 10 abreast, the 772s will remain 9.

ZKOJH · Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:20 am

"jrfspaa320"

Following the refit of the 772 fleet which was completed in Dec all the 772's now have a lovely 3-4-3 seating in Y class . the only long-haul aircraft that will have the 3-3-3 is the 787.

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/seat-map-boeing-777-200

and in other news is the "spaceseat" on the 773 about to get the chop? seems to be a lot of talk of this at the moment?!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-n...o-away-773-can-anyone-confirm.html

jrfspa320 · Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:23 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 184):

Sorry I was talking about Qatar ...

mariner · Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:59 pm

An interesting overview of tiny Sounds Air - where it was, where it is and where it may be going:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7778...fall-on-old-Air-New-Zealand-routes

"Sounds Air near 100,000 passengers in windfall on old Air New Zealand routes

The privately-owned airline had gradually added routes and aircraft and had a breakthrough in 2015 when Air New Zealand reorganised its regional services.

The company added three extra aircraft on routes from Westport and Taupo to Wellington, after local authorities selected the airline as their "preferred supplier". The endorsement boosted its loadings.

Air New Zealand had shown no sign of wanting to reinstate its Taupo and Westport flights through Wellington, Crawford said. "They won't come back; they're going to bigger and bigger planes - it just won't happen."

Sounds Air had no ambition to challenge Air New Zealand as an operator on main trunk routes, he said. "The fact is, we're a second-tier airline. We know our place in the world."

marriner

NZ107 · Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:09 pm

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 180):

I was on the inaugural AKL-HLZ-AKL and I was the only passenger on both flights

777ER · Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:12 am

Timaru's airport is set to get an upgrade due to NZ changing to Q300s http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald...-budget-bumped-up-by-nearly-500000

zkojq · Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:01 am

Wellington had an Iranian Airbus A340-300 visiting today (EP-AJA).

http://mrcaviation.blogspot.co.nz/2016/03/airbus-a340-300-ep-aja.html

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 182):
Due to be repainted in May.

Cheers.

SXI899 · Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:57 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 170):
Quoting SXI899 (Reply 120):

Just curious; what software is that?

Its a Jeppesen product that we use.

Quoting mariner (Reply 186):
An interesting overview of tiny Sounds Air - where it was, where it is and where it may be going

Definitely interesting. I wonder if there is any other low-hanging fruit in terms of routes they can expand into in the future, MRO-AKL perhaps?

mariner · Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:10 pm

Quoting SXI899 (Reply 190):
I wonder if there is any other low-hanging fruit in terms of routes they can expand into in the future, MRO-AKL perhaps?

A couple of years ago, they considered starting MRO-WLG, but decided against it - the locals wanted MRO-AKL back.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.co.nz/201...till-loooking-for-air-service.html

"Masterton Still Loooking for an Air Service

Sounds Air has decided to start a new flight service in Wanganui instead of Masterton. It had proposed flights between Masterton and Wellington but feedback had not been positive. "We had a lot of feedback from locals saying you're wasting your time," said Andrew Crawford, managing director of Sounds Air. He said Masterton residents were more interested in reinstating flights to Auckland but the company couldn't offer that."

Wanganui didn't work for them, either, of course, so it'll be interesting to see where they go next.

mariner

aerorobnz · Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 191):
Wanganui didn't work for them, either, of course, so it'll be interesting to see where they go next.

WAG has Q300s now and isn't as commonly on grabaseat anymore. Wanganui is doing their utmost to keep air service and managing ok so far

Quoting mariner (Reply 191):
the locals wanted MRO-AKL back.

Sadly they should have just taken what they could get from Soundsair who quite rightly know what works and what doesn't for their operation. As so many in small town NZ do, they think that a routing is an unalienable right and any airline obliged to make a loss and send aircraft on a ridiculous routing for the sake of a very few who will bother to utilise it.

to serve MRO-AKL soundsair would need to fly an aircraft from WLG/NSN/BHE-MRO, operate to AKL back to MRO and then back to wherever they need it. 4 loss making sectors for their efforts.Hell no. Better to just stay home/send it to better markets. Leave the hopey dreamy stuff and eventual bankruptcy to Kiwi Regional.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 170):
I wonder where ADE fits into all of this?

I think Yemen is probably a fair way away from their plans right now given the conflict.

Quoting mariner (Reply 151):
"Kiwi Regional Airlines plans to crowdfund $2 million for new plane

I find it shameful. If he had done it when it was still a dream/pre investors I would say ok fine, but not now it is an operating business that supposed generates their own profit and investment capital. I think the Government should make it illegal for already established businesses to beg for charity in this manner. I think Air New Zealand should try and crowd fund an ATR at the same time just to show how absurd the idea is.

zkncj · Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 192):
I find it shameful. If he had done it when it was still a dream/pre investors I would say ok fine, but not now it is an operating business that supposed generates their own profit and investment capital. I think the Government should make it illegal for already established businesses to beg for charity in this manner. I think Air New Zealand should try and crowd fund an ATR at the same time just to show how absurd the idea is.

Funny thing is NZ probably could crowd find the ATR pretty fast, were KRA trying to get $2million for S340 good luck

mariner · Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:38 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 192):
Sadly they should have just taken what they could get from Soundsair who quite rightly know what works and what doesn't for their operation.

I agree. I'm really quite surprised that the locals held their noses at the idea of MRO-WLG.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 192):
I find it shameful. If he had done it when it was still a dream/pre investors I would say ok fine, but not now it is an operating business that supposed generates their own profit and investment capital.

Wilson says KRA will be profitable "next year" and if that's true the balance sheet should be strong enough to attract finance for an aircraft, as Sounds Air did:

http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=75424

"Development West Coast (DWC) and Sounds Air have signed an agreement that will see DWC provide finance to the airline to assist with the purchase of an aircraft to fly between Westport and Wellington."

Like a lot of people who start - or try to start - airlines, there's a strongly held belief that if they can just get enough capital to start flying, earnings will take care of the problems. It doesn't work like that and so I think he's winging it.

mariner

dc10s2hnl · Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:57 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 189):
Wellington had an Iranian Airbus A340-300 visiting today (EP-AJA).

The foreign minister Zarif is in town and will be speaking at parliament Monday. Maybe we'll see EP-AJA taking him away on Monday or Tuesday?

zkeoj · Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:14 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 187):
I was on the inaugural AKL-HLZ-AKL and I was the only passenger on both flights

I asked the FO if the loads are commonly so low, and he said they are improving. Apparently, according to him, they haven't done any marketing, but hope that they will do soon. I saw the $29 fares are gone after next week as well. And maybe the connection to KRA will work for them - the only other passenger on my AKL-HLZ flight did indeed connect to KRA... Good luck to both GB and KRA - I love the small players and wish them the bst to stay in the market.

Cheers
micha

Planesmart · Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 192):
I find it shameful. If he had done it when it was still a dream/pre investors I would say ok fine, but not now it is an operating business that supposed generates their own profit and investment capital. I think the Government should make it illegal for already established businesses to beg for charity in this manner. I think Air New Zealand should try and crowd fund an ATR at the same time just to show how absurd the idea is.

No different to how funding syndicates operate, it's just the medium being used, and fund source, so differentiating between established and new businesses is moot. There is an appetite for commercial aviation action, as some of the EK A380 syndicates have discovered, through nominee placements.

Quoting mariner (Reply 194):
Wilson says KRA will be profitable "next year" and if that's true the balance sheet should be strong enough to attract finance for an aircraft, as Sounds Air did

Attract finance for an aircraft from who? Big aviation finance players are not interested in financing one, elderly aircraft at the end of the World, and the Australian banks frankly lack the balls or understanding, so really not many options.

mariner · Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:33 pm

Quoting Planesmart (Reply 197):
Attract finance for an aircraft from who? Big aviation finance players are not interested in financing one, elderly aircraft at the end of the World, and the Australian banks frankly lack the balls or understanding, so really not many options.

As in post 194, Sounds Air found one.

And KRA found investors to replace the original - tougher than funding an aircraft, which at least is some collateral.

http://flykiwiair.co.nz/kiwi-regional-airlines-has-a-new-investor/

"Kiwi Regional Airlines has a new investor

2 Cheap Cars has sold its shares in Kiwi Regional Airlines to Mr and Mrs Andrew and Anne King of Hamilton.

Andrew is a successful entrepreneur – his portfolio of investments include Kings Finance and Kings Cars in Hamilton."

If the balance sheet is in good order, then there is usually money out there.

mariner

[Edited 2016-03-13 13:34:32]

Gasman · Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:55 pm

I was just musing over the fact that services out of MRO always seem to go nowhere fast. The Wairarapa is relatively isolated, it's a pig of a drive to WLG and Palmerston North isn't much better.

Then I looked up the population of the Wairarapa region - 40,000. I was astonished, I would have guessed twice that. So we're talking a population similar to that of Wanganui, whose air services always look on the verge of being wiped out in one political move. Yet unlike Wanganui, Wairarapa's population is scattered over a pretty big geographical area. Scheduled air services just aren't ever going to be viable.

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