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coairman
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UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:41 am

Today is the last day of the month and UA is significantly beating out the perpetually number one on-time arrival crown of DL. What a change! What has happened here other than UA changing to the "out and back" aircraft routing philosophy? What changes at DL may have helped contribute to this?


UA
SUN: 86.4% | MTD: 76.3%
DL
SUN: 85.4% | MTD: 72.6%
WN
SUN: 84.2% | MTD: 72.4%
AA
SUN: 74.6% | MTD: 66.4%


What a refreshing change!

[Edited 2016-02-29 17:44:53]
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
copter808
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:12 am

There was a time when CO used the "out and back" procedure too. That way if the delays were at only ONE airport, it didn't screw up the entire schedule.
 
MaxxFlyer
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:15 am

I'm not sure! one month's data! is a reason! to get so excited! and proclaim! it with a headline! ended by an exclamation mark!
 
coairman
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:24 am

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 2):

I'm not sure! one month's data! is a reason! to get so excited! and proclaim! it with a headline! ended by an exclamation mark

Actually I think it's significant since DL has locked that spot up for years....that's a really long time and now it has changed....even if it's for two months in a row. I might be wrong, but I think UA was number 1 last month too...the first time in a very long time.....maybe going back to 2010 when the passenger service computer systems were separate.
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
DualQual
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:40 am

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 2):

I don't see a problem with it. OP is excited. What's wrong with it? Or is it because it's UA enthusiasm is discouraged? Also one exclamation point used properly hardly merits a response akin to using a cannon to kill a mosquito.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
coairman
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:51 am

If the exclamation point is disturbing to some...... Maybe I can delete it......enthusiasm for UA is quite not "hip" yet........according to some...
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:04 am

Quoting coairman (Thread starter):
What a change! What has happened here other than UA changing to the "out and back" aircraft routing philosophy? What changes at DL may have helped contribute to this?

In the midwest, the winter has been unusually kind to UA; I think Chicago has less than a foot of snow YTD. Detroit has gotten more, though I don't know if they are above normal.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bigb
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:04 am

Quoting coairman (Reply 5):
If the exclamation point is disturbing to some...... Maybe I can delete it......enthusiasm for UA is quite not "hip" yet........according to some...

Nope, leave it!
 
usflyguy
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:05 am

Where did you get your stats from?

WN is running 87.6% for the month of February.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
TheAccountant
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:11 am

Is this A0 or A14?

Delta's internal statistics through Sunday for A14 shows over 86% MTD for February
 
Flaps
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:18 am

Shocking....Given the number of Friday nights I have spent on the floor at ORD over the years thanks to UA, they are going to have post these kinds of numbers for a decade before I trust them with my business again. But hey its a start.
 
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adamblang
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:19 am

OP's numbers are A:00.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:20 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 8):
WN is running 87.6% for the month of February

OP didn't include that those are A:00 not A:14.
 
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adamblang
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:55 am

Annoyingly, FlightStats only displays A:14, not A:00.

I guess Frontier was the best at being 14 minutes late in January, Southwest was the best major at being 14 minutes late.



And DOT takes a while to report out numbers. (Right now, only Dec 2015 is available.)
 
simairlinenet
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:15 am

Quoting coairman (Reply 3):
even if it's for two months in a row. I might be wrong, but I think UA was number 1 last month too...the first time in a very long time

January 2016 (Mainline)
UA 70.3%
DL 70.2%
WN 66.5%
AA 61.1%
 
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mayor
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:24 am

Quoting adamblang (Reply 13):

Annoyingly, FlightStats only displays A:14, not A:00.

That's the only stat that DOT cares about.

Quoting coairman (Thread starter):
Today is the last day of the month and UA is significantly beating out the perpetually number one on-time arrival crown of DL. What a change! What has happened here other than UA changing to the "out and back" aircraft routing philosophy? What changes at DL may have helped contribute to this?

Which stats are you using? You can't just cherry pick which stats you want to use to put yourself at the top. If the DOT uses A:14 and the other airlines do, also, then that's what's used for the comparison. It would seem to me that A:00 would be almost impossible to accomplish.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:21 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
It would seem to me that A:00 would be almost impossible to accomplish.

Why? The stats that have been posted have show it is achieved the majority of the time.
 
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mayor
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:29 am

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 16):
Why? The stats that have been posted have show it is achieved the majority of the time.

I thought those stats were A:14, the same ones that the DOT uses......? Wouldn't A:00 be on time, at the gate, every time?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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adamblang
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:33 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
Wouldn't A:00 be on time, at the gate, every time?

100% A:00 would mean every aircraft is at the gate on time or early 100% of the time. So per OP's stats UA is at the gate early or exactly on time 76.3% of the time while AA is at the gate early or exactly on time 66.4% of the time.

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
That's the only stat that DOT cares about.

True, but none of us on this thread are the DOT. Personally, I'd prefer my plane get where I'm going on time rather than getting where I'm going 14 minutes late.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:41 am

In any case, good for UA improving its on-time performance.

I wonder if its possible to calculate the delay exposure UA has vs. DL and based on its airports of operation. Even though DL has JFK, it also operates out of lower delay airports ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC, LAX, SEA. In comparison UA's hub airports of EWR, SFO, ORD are delay prone, a large percentage vs. less impacted DEN, IAH, LAX.
 
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adamblang
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:47 am

This is January D:14 (I'd prefer D:00 but this is what I've got) by hub.

I think you're wanting by airline by hub but I'd have to subscribe to FlightStat's data and/or wade through DOT numbers to get at that.

[Edited 2016-02-29 21:53:11]
 
futureorthopod
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:59 am

This plus their new waffle cookie?!?!?! I don't know if we can take much more from UA            
 
a380787
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:58 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):

Post #1 shows WN DL UA all having ~3/4 of flights arriving on time by A:00 standards, so I don't think that's "impossible" as you characterize it. As this is during winter months with frequent IRROPS - spring and fall should post far higher numbers.

A:00 is what passengers actually experience, not A:14 which is a feel-good grade inflation metric. As long as all airlines are measured under the exact same criteria, I think it's a fair comparison.

For me, the only real takeaway from this data posted is what's going on at AA that's causing them to fall meaningfully behind the other 3.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:00 am

Quoting adamblang (Reply 13):

Looking at your data table, it seems UA was a bit too trigger happy with the cancel button in order to preserve A14 for the remaining flights.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:14 am

So, looking at DL vs. UA at hubs here's the number of flights and on-time ranking. Obviously some delays may be the responsibility of the hub carrier, but DL has over 700 flights to top 5 ranked airports while UA has over 1200 to airports on the bottom of the on-time rankings.

Rank/hub/flights (flights taken from Wiki)
1 DL SLC 232
3 DL MSP 382
4 DL SEA 110
7 UA DEN 375
8 UA IAH 542
10 DL DTW 422
11 DL ATL 969
19 DL LAX 157, UA LAX 150
21 DL LGA 264
22 DL JFK 188
23 UA EWR 385
24 UA ORD 550
26 UA SFO 275
 
IPFreely
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:46 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 24):
So, looking at DL vs. UA at hubs here's the number of flights and on-time ranking

Looks like DL will be moving some JFK & LGA flights from mainline to regional and some SLC and MSP flights from regional to mainline, in order to make their stats look good.
 
jayunited
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:11 am

Quoting TheAccountant (Reply 9):

Is this A0 or A14?

Delta's internal statistics through Sunday for A14 shows over 86% MTD for February

The OP is looking at A:00 the DOT allows for A:14 but earlier last year UA switch over from A:14 to A:00 and made a commitment to employees and passengers to do something to improve our on-time performance.

Quoting MaxxFlyer (Reply 2):
I'm not sure! one month's data! is a reason! to get so excited! and proclaim! it with a headline! ended by an exclamation mark!

I don't see the problem with being a little excited. Ever since Oscar has taken over as CEO there have been some positive changes here at UA one of the biggest complaints against UA concerned our horrible on-time performance. For the past few months UA's A:00 has steadily gotten better, the operational changes as well as an increase in employee morale is starting to pay off. So while it is abundantly clear how most a.netters feel about UA and rightfully so; I also think it is fair to highlight what UA is doing right. DL has reign supreme consistently coming in in first place in A:00 against AA, WN, and UA so for UA to accomplish first place two months in a row against AA, DL and WN is a small victory but a victory none the less but more importantly it shows UA is taking the proper steps to improve the customer experience.
 
bhmdiversion
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:12 am

These stats the OP posted were from United's Intranet... Any company website of course will say they have the best. This is United were talking about, so take their numbers with a grain of salt.
 
coairman
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:28 am

These stats are for employee on- time monthly bonuses. They exclude smaller airlines. If the information is not correct, then my apologies.....its for Mainline (of course) A:00. Honestly, I am not the most optimistic person in the world....but as mentioned above, it's a nice and refreshing step forward.
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
burnsie28
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:11 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 18):
True, but none of us on this thread are the DOT. Personally, I'd prefer my plane get where I'm going on time rather than getting where I'm going 14 minutes late.

You could leave the gate 14 minutes late and still arrive early. You could easily also leave the gate at D:00 and arrive 14+ minutes late. The industry as a whole posts D:14/A:14 and that's what the media and everyone else goes off of.
 
caljn
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:40 pm

Quoting futureorthopod (Reply 21):
This plus their new waffle cookie?!?!?! I don't know if we can take much more from UA            

Hey! That waffle cookie is quite tasty!
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:13 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 29):
The industry as a whole posts D:14/A:14 and that's what the media and everyone else goes off of.


I've never seen anyone use D:14.

Standard set would be D:00, A:00 and A:14.
 
dc10co
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:14 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 27):

First of all those stats are pulled from the DOT, and why would United have any incentive to lie? Being #1 in on time means a bonus payment that goes out to all employees.
Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone shit again.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:25 pm

Even using publicly available data, UA is definitely in the ballpark as the rest of the competition

......Delays.in.Last30days....CXL.in.Last30days...Flts.in Jan16...Approx.A14.On-time%...Approx.CXL%
UA.........7,449...................................480.....................53,512......................86.1%......................0.9%
AA.........12,005.............................1,070.......................92,139.....................87.0%......................1.2%
DL.........11,085...... .......................326........................82,084......................86.5%......................0.4%
WN.........12,791.............................1,431....................106,224.......................88.0%......................1.3%

This is mainline-only A14, last 30 days (as rough proxy for Feb'16). This data shows UA vs. DL is 86.1% vs. 86.5%, hardly a discernible difference for most travelers.

[Edited 2016-03-01 06:36:53]
 
United1
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:40 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 27):
This is United were talking about, so take their numbers with a grain of salt.

Think you are getting UA confused with DL...generally UA does not spin numbers. DL on the other hand...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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adamblang
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 27):
These stats the OP posted were from United's Intranet... Any company website of course will say they have the best. This is United were talking about, so take their numbers with a grain of salt.

No conspiracy here.

A company might tell the public they're the best but when you're telling employees whether or not they're on track to meet goal – a goal that compensation is tied to – you use real numbers.

These are real numbers that have been on display to employees for years. They just happen to be real good relative the rest of the majors for the last two months.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:12 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 27):
These stats the OP posted were from United's Intranet... Any company website of course will say they have the best. This is United were talking about, so take their numbers with a grain of salt.

As others have pointed out, not true at all. These are sent daily to the whole company. May 29th for instance we were in last place for the month to date:

Mainline A :00
DL THU: 59.3% | MTD: 73.5%
AA THU: 60.4% | MTD: 63.7%
WN THU: 61.3% | MTD: 60.8%
UA THU: 59.4% | MTD: 60.6%
 
deltal1011man
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:17 pm

Congrats to all the UA employees. Times are tough and I hope the FAs and Maintenance can get a good TA soon but its nice to see they are working hard anyways.

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 27):
These stats the OP posted were from United's Intranet... Any company website of course will say they have the best.

I have never seen a company do this.

DL has metrics they list and if they are above goal they are above goal, if they are below goal then they are below goal.


Posting false numbers to employees are not a way to get them to go the extra mile.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:29 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 36):
As others have pointed out, not true at all. These are sent daily to the whole company. May 29th for instance we were in last place for the month to date:

Given the number of city pairs in which UA runs regionals (excluded from its numbers) versus WN (included in its numbers), the comparison with WN is sort of misleading, no?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
a380787
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:29 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 36):

Mainline A :00
DL THU: 59.3% | MTD: 73.5%
AA THU: 60.4% | MTD: 63.7%
WN THU: 61.3% | MTD: 60.8%
UA THU: 59.4% | MTD: 60.6%

Thanks Rdh3e. Any chance for you to post the 12-month A:00 trend for the Big 4? I'm curious to see if UA's performance in Jan/Feb were flukes or whether the fundamentals have actually improved.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:30 pm

If I worked for UA I'd be excited as well about some positive news. But statistically they have a VERY long way to go to surpass perennial leaders HA and AS. DL is catching up to them but to say UA is part of that club, emphasized by exclamation points, is a bit disingenuous.
 
sulley
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:31 pm

Congratulations to UA.

DL has had it easy - in addition to running a tight ship operationally, it's easier to achieve imprresive OT metrics when your hubs are located in second and third tier cities. Hehe   
In thrust we trust!
 
jayunited
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:51 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 39):
I'm curious to see if UA's performance in Jan/Feb were flukes or whether the fundamentals have actually improved.

I think it is somewhere in between we are not were we need to be yet but if you look at the data from the past 6 months UA has steadily improved in A:00 when compared to AA, DL and WN. So the numbers are not a fluke but at the same time I think UA is moving in the right direction.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:13 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 39):
Thanks Rdh3e. Any chance for you to post the 12-month A:00 trend for the Big 4? I'm curious to see if UA's performance in Jan/Feb were flukes or whether the fundamentals have actually improved.


http://www.transtats.bts.gov/HomeDrillChart.asp

[Edited 2016-03-01 09:16:54]
 
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mayor
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:25 pm

Quoting Sulley (Reply 41):
DL has had it easy - in addition to running a tight ship operationally, it's easier to achieve imprresive OT metrics when your hubs are located in second and third tier cities

You really think that the busiest airport in the world and the worlds largest hub (ATL) is a second or third tier city?


I think it really comes down to "in addition to running a tight ship operationally".

Quoting a380787 (Reply 22):
Post #1 shows WN DL UA all having ~3/4 of flights arriving on time by A:00 standards, so I don't think that's "impossible" as you characterize it. As this is during winter months with frequent IRROPS - spring and fall should post far higher numbers.

If they're not fudging the numbers, then I can see where A:00 is more difficult to achieve. If they ARE fudging the numbers, then it would be easy to achieve and since this isn't a metric that the DOT cares about, they could fudge as much as they want. Years ago, before the DOT changed the metrics, stats were fudged all the time on departure times.....it was easy to do. I'm not saying this is what UA is doing, but it could be done this way.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
727LOVER
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:26 pm

Quoting coairman (Thread starter):
UA
SUN: 86.4% | MTD: 76.3%
DL
SUN: 85.4% | MTD: 72.6%
WN
SUN: 84.2% | MTD: 72.4%
AA
SUN: 74.6% | MTD: 66.4%

Why are you using only 4 airlines?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:29 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 45):
Why are you using only 4 airlines?

Bonuses are paid based on competition against major airlines so that's what gets published.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:33 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 45):

HA is a specialized carrier and hubbing at an airport with perfect weather every day ... it's not a meaningful metric to compare against.
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:37 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 47):
HA is a specialized carrier and hubbing at an airport with perfect weather every day ... it's not a meaningful metric to compare against.

You know that and I know that, but I don't think the DOT knows that. Being an apples and oranges comparison has never meant much to them.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
727LOVER
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RE: UA Overtakes DL As The Number 1 On-Time Airline!

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:43 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 47):
HA is a specialized carrier and hubbing at an airport with perfect weather every day ... it's not a meaningful metric to compare against.

Well, there's B6, NK, F9, G4...and let's not forget "perfect weather" AS.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos