Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 1): Really disheartening. I had hoped that a more cooperative spirit would have emerged. Oh well. |
Quoting Lexy (Reply 2): Really? The company has been adding more and more flying with little regard for the compensation of its workforce needed to complete all these new flights. I'm glad they did this, honestly. |
Quoting Grisee08 (Reply 6): It has more advanced avionics, and the pilots don't have to work as hard to keep the aircraft in the air, so if they want to be that way, pay pilots on the -8Max less to fly that airplane |
Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 1): |
Quoting toltommy (Reply 3): Based on what? They have a pay rate for the -800 already. |
Quoting Lexy (Reply 2): Really? |
Quoting 737tanker (Reply 12): SWAPA has been cooperative in the past. |
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15): Does the -8 MAX require a new pilot rating? |
Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 11): The MAX has the same avionics as the NG except for larger screens. They won't be working any less. |
Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 15): Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 11): The MAX has the same avionics as the NG except for larger screens. They won't be working any less. I stand corrected then. I thought they had 21st century avionics, etc. My apologies |
Quoting trent900 (Reply 19): Can anyone please explain why aircraft types are covered in these contracts and not aircraft categories? To me (and probably many others) any type of 737 is the same as any other etc. obviously an A320 would fall in this category as well so you would fly either on or the other on the same pay scale. Seem to me the people who drew up these contracts seem to have made them a bit to complicated! |
Quoting BravoOne (Reply 21): Actually the MAX has some pretty advanced avionics and it has not been decided on just how much additional training will be required to qualify a pilot to fly it. Same type rating but additional training be it a FFS or FTD as yet undetermined. |
Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 24): If the FAA determines minimal retraining is required, a mediator could take away this 'new type = new contract' chip. |
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 23): Are they not all ready the highest paid pilots in the US and in the 99th percentile of all US wage earners? Isn't that enough? |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 26): This is just the latest in a series of events (activates its strike preparedness committee, rejects a contract that both Leaderships agreed on and sent to a vote, pickets a couple of months later saying we need a new contract when they were the ones to reject one and new talks weren't scheduled for another month, etc.). |
Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 15): And the same overhead panel as the B732....... |
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 23): Are they not all ready the highest paid pilots in the US and in the 99th percentile of all US wage earners? Isn't that enough? |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 26): When a work group threatens to jeopardize my future, along with 49,000 other employees, you lose my sympathy. Do we all want better salaries and improved work conditions? Of course, but I've learned to not expect or demand the moon, especially when I already have industry-leading pay and benefits with a company that has been stable and safe for decades. |
Quoting tb727 (Reply 29): When it comes time for cuts, the pilot group is the first in line. |
Quoting n562wn (Reply 30): Industry leading pay and benefits? I hope you're talking about your work group because it's definitely not the pilot work group. |
Quoting n562wn (Reply 30): The pilots are merely asking for industry STANDARD pay and benefits |
Quoting n562wn (Reply 30): Jeopardize your future? Hardly... |
Quoting n562wn (Reply 30): But please feel free to continue spreading misinformation. |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 31): Weird, because the opposite is all I've ever seen reported and heard for years, up until these most recent contracts by competitors. And those competitors all went through massive pay cuts, layoffs, and bankruptcy, all while WN pilots kept their full salaries, benefits, and job security. |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 31): So the last TA, which was rejected, did not include this? Not from what I've seen and heard. |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 31): Yep, when an AIRLINE has its pilots refuse to fly a plane, that would jeopardize my future, along with 49,000 others. How else do you expect the 49,000 others to keep a job, and for the company to keep a revenue stream? Also, how many other pilots and airlines had this same cocky mentality before they were either laid off, took a pay cut, or their company went bankrupt or was bought out? |
Quoting n562wn (Reply 30): Industry leading pay and benefits? I hope you're talking about your work group because it's definitely not the pilot work group. |
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 32): So it sounds like all of the folks criticizing the pilots are people who will take whatever their employer is willing to offer in terms of a contract; that using leverage is verboten and the pilot group has no real right to advocate for itself. |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 26): Quoting bobnwa (Reply 23): Are they not all ready the highest paid pilots in the US and in the 99th percentile of all US wage earners? Isn't that enough? Other work groups at WN are starting to lose patience with the pilots and their "greedy" demands. This is just the latest in a series of events (activates its strike preparedness committee, rejects a contract that both Leaderships agreed on and sent to a vote, pickets a couple of months later saying we need a new contract when they were the ones to reject one and new talks weren't scheduled for another month, etc.). |
Quoting C767P (Reply 38): Not really when the FAA has said WN pilots can not fly all three (300 700/800 and MAX). |
Quoting surfdog75 (Reply 39): SWAPA has been far more than patient in my opinion with an intransigent management. |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 35): WN from 2005-2013: http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...T%20AND%20CO-PILOT%20PERSONNEL.htm |
Quoting zeke (Reply 41): Didn't they fly 737-200s alongside 7373NGs ? Thats like a Nokia 6110 to a Iphone 3. 738 to 738max is a Iphone3 to Iphone6. |
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 46): I just sure hope that codesharing is allowed in the next contract. It's such a dumb clause that isn't helping the airline (or pilots for that mater) one bit. Getting some connections to Europe, Asia, Africa, etc... would be very beneficial for WN and the pilots. |
Quoting C767P (Reply 48): How would another airline flying to Europe help Southwest pilots? Shouldn't Southwest do it themselves so Southwest pilots can fly there? |
Quoting C767P (Reply 44): They did. I am not a 737 pilot, so I don't know the differences in a 200 and 300. All I know is WN pilots have said the FAA will not allow them to fly the -300 and MAX. Compare it to whatever you want. This is what the FAA is saying. |
Quoting tb727 (Reply 29): Good for the SWAPA, go get what you deserve! I love how everyone who isn't in the seat or situation decides on how much you are worth. Planes are packed full, gas is cheap. We are in a time of record profits by nearly every airline after a decade of stagnation, time to make up for it. When it comes time for cuts, the pilot group is the first in line. |
Quoting tb727 (Reply 29): If you can get a little more, why wouldn't you want to? |
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 32): its how they fare compared to their peers in the industry. |
Quoting Dallas (Reply 35): However, I do not make threats that would affect other work groups or the company as a whole (for both the short and long-term). If I felt that I was getting screwed or didn't like the company, I would go elsewhere for more money and benefits, as nobody is forcing me to stay and I have the education and experience to make a transition. I am not a pilot, and that is clearly understood here. |