Air China Applies For PVG-SJC Service

LAXintl · Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:11 pm

Air China today applied with the DOT to to launch PVG-SJC service effective June 16th.

Proposed schedule:

TuThSa
CA829 PVG-SJC 1300-1010
CA830 SJC-PVG 1200-1640+1

Says they will utilize 237 seat A330-200 aircraft

OST-2016-0001

=

BoeingGuy · Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:22 pm

I would have expected HU to jump on SJC-PVG first before CA.

Freshside3 · Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:14 pm

Makes doubly good sense. SJC, by itself, is in the Top 10 cities of Chinese population in the USA.....aside from the fact there is business travel from the tech industry.....

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
I would have expected HU to jump on SJC-PVG first before CA.

I would have thought HU would have beat CA, too......

SCQ83 · Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:19 pm

It seems like SJC is the new BOS (interestingly there are parallelisms in high-tech, high education...).

ANA (remember the BOS boom started as well with NRT - JAL -), British, Lufthansa, Hainan, Air China... what is next?

Flighty · Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:51 pm

I don't know how much business traffic there is. But SJC is full of new and not so new immigrants, a large number of which are extraordinarily affluent. Like, people who live in houses over 1.5 million dollars. That is the norm. Their VFR traffic could easily include premium class travel. Among VFR markets (which I think this mostly is), this could be a very premium one.

VAM8789 · Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):

It seems like SJC is the new BOS (interestingly there are parallelisms in high-tech, high education...).

ANA (remember the BOS boom started as well with NRT - JAL -), British, Lufthansa, Hainan, Air China... what is next?

More service to the East Coast. BOS is only served seasonally by B6. JFK only has B6. No service to EWR, IAD, CLT, PHL, MCO and MIA.

[Edited 2016-03-02 12:17:09]

psa1011 · Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:58 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 5):

AS really needs to start some new routes from SJC.

SJCMSP · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:02 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
1.5 million dollars

Just about every house period is $1.5 million.

I just can't believe what's happening with my former hometown airport.

legacyins · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:12 pm

Let's see if these flights have staying power. Will this flight canabalizie their SFO flight? Maybe maybe not as CA has US as their partner at SFO. Also, Chinese carriers,in general, start these flights as long term strategic planning verse profit.

BoeingGuy · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 5):

More service to the East Coast. BOS is only served seasonally by B6. JFK only has B6. No service to EWR, IAD, PHL, CLT, PHL, MCO and MIA.

AA is starting SJC-CLT, but yes you are correct. SJC is lacking in transcons. AA used to serve BOS, JFK, and for a short time MIA. UA used to do IAD. CO used to do EWR.

Hopefully AS can fill in a few of these gaps from SJC like FLL, EWR and BOS.

wn676 · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:20 pm

How many FIS gates does SJC have? Assuming CA launches this route, July 16th would look like this as of today:

CA PVG 1010-1200 PVG 332
NH NRT 1100-1245 NRT 788
HU PEK 1130-1330 PEK 788
Y4 GDL 1205-1320 GDL 320
LH FRA 1340-1520 FRA 343
AS GDL 1525 73H
AS SJD 1610 739
BA LHR 1815-2005 LHR 789

LAXintl · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:22 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):
what is next?

I know airport has spoken with KE.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 10):

How many FIS gates does SJC have?

3

legacyins · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:34 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 10):

How many FIS gates does SJC have?

4 capable of handling International arrival. Gates 15&16 and Gates 17&18 were added last year as swing gates. Meaning they can handle International arrivals and domestic flights.

LAXintl · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:42 pm

Quoting legacyins (Reply 12):
4 capable of handling International arrival. Gates 15&16 and Gates 17&18 were added last year as swing gates. Meaning they can handle International arrivals and domestic flights.

Interesting. Per letter I have from airport on behalf of a client they stated:

"With only 3 international gates and 1 FIS carousel"

haynflyer · Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:46 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 10):
How many FIS gates does SJC have? Assuming CA launches this route, July 16th would look like this as of today:

CA PVG 1010-1200 PVG 332
NH NRT 1100-1245 NRT 788
HU PEK 1130-1330 PEK 788
Y4 GDL 1205-1320 GDL 320
LH FRA 1340-1520 FRA 343
AS GDL 1525 73H
AS SJD 1610 739
BA LHR 1815-2005 LHR 789

Keep in mind that with pre-clearance, foreign flights can use a domestic gate. I believe NRT is going to be one of those cities with pre-clearance, so that will help the situation.

JetBlueCLT · Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:27 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 5):

CLT-SJC begins June 2

legacyins · Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:51 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

Nope, saw it with my own eyes and actually was on the CBP team to make sure the sterile corridor between the swing gates were properly configured for security purposes .. They opened in the Spring of 2015.

wn676 · Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:17 pm

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 14):
Keep in mind that with pre-clearance, foreign flights can use a domestic gate. I believe NRT is going to be one of those cities with pre-clearance, so that will help the situation.

YVR is already excluded from the list. For the near-term these inbounds will still have to clear in the U.S. The only expansion of the program that I've heard recently involves ARN and PUJ.

mikesairways · Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:25 am

And apparently reservations are now open:

http://airlineroute.net/2016/03/03/ca-pvgsjc-jun16/

Ytraveller · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:55 am

Lucky lucky SJC... I am waiting for HU to apply to DOT for PEK-LAS, they did so to CAAC but who knows if it'll be fulfilled...

Aither · Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:19 am

It's time for the non written rule of one carrier one route to end. Although I think this route could make money most will not.

AirFiero · Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:54 am

Holy s***. Ole SJC is practically booming. I honestly never thought I'd see this kind of international service.

BoeingGuy · Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:14 am

Quoting AirFiero (Reply 21):
Holy s***. Ole SJC is practically booming. I honestly never thought I'd see this kind of international service.

I didn't either. I could see maybe NH and BA serving NRT and LHR, but never thought I'd see CA and LH in there. Of course it remains to be seen if LH actually starts.

Now SJC just needs some more transcons.

laca773 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:59 am

Has CA updated their A330s? As the saying goes, , they were getting very long in the tooth as did the 77E. 744, 74E.

When will CA begin to receive their 787-9s?

PhoenixVIP · Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:04 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 23):

They have all been refurbished with new seat covers and fittings. The product has not changed.

The PVG rotation typically sees the newer A332s (B-6533 and above) so it is likely this route will get the softer Y seat with improved Thales IFE that is seen in the 77W. All A330 J is the same.

First 789 is slated for delivery by the end of this year but will not be used for international services initially.

a380787 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:44 pm

UA and CA cross complimenting each other : CA launch PVG-SJC while UA does HGH-SFO

AirFiero · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:15 pm

So I would assume that Shanghai is a major tech center in China, and the main reason for this service?

workhorse · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:23 pm

Very good news for a lot of tech people in Shanghai area. Hopefully it will not be switched to the 789.

a380787 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Quoting AirFiero (Reply 26):
So I would assume that Shanghai is a major tech center in China, and the main reason for this service?

I see it as a slight revenge against HU for grabbing the PEK-SJC rights. It's also a pre-emptive strike against MU to ensure they're locked out of it.

DolphinAir747 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:39 pm

Quoting workhorse (Reply 27):
Very good news for a lot of tech people in Shanghai area. Hopefully it will not be switched to the 789.

CA doesn't have 787s, no? And I definitely don't see UA flying 787s longhaul out of SJC.

LAXintl · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:49 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 29):
CA doesn't have 787s, no? And I definitely don't see UA flying 787s longhaul out of SJC.

They have 15 on order.

DolphinAir747 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 29):
CA doesn't have 787s, no? And I definitely don't see UA flying 787s longhaul out of SJC.

They have 15 on order.

Why would moving to the 787 be a problem?

nikeson13 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:51 pm

I flew AS SJD -SJC coming home from New Year's trip and when we arrived (afternoon, not sure exactly when) we came into a swing gate, and it seemed customs and baggage was not fully capable to facilitate 150 people. The whole customs hall was almost full at one point, and while there was only 2 customs agents at the time, even with full staffing that small little hall would greatly struggle from 10:00-1300, with maybe a max of 300(that's a high estimate IMO). After taking over 12 minutes waiting in line when being around the 15th man off the plane, I proceeded to the luggage carousel which seemed oddly small. I would love to see what SJC does for that 3hr window in the summer...

ANYWAYS, SJC needs to get ahead of these capacity issues that are rapidly developing. New gates/terminals, bigger CBP facilities, and another carousel or two would be good.

workhorse · Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:55 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 31):
Why would moving to the 787 be a problem?

Seat width. Stupid dimmable windows.

mikesairways · Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:34 pm

Quoting nikeson13 (Reply 32):
ANYWAYS, SJC needs to get ahead of these capacity issues that are rapidly developing. New gates/terminals, bigger CBP facilities, and another carousel or two would be good.

Supposedly a 2nd Carousel is coming as well as enclosing the arrivals area so you don't walk completely outside.

wn676 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:38 pm

Quoting nikeson13 (Reply 32):
ANYWAYS, SJC needs to get ahead of these capacity issues that are rapidly developing. New gates/terminals, bigger CBP facilities, and another carousel or two would be good.

Kinda makes you wonder why they decided to box their CBP facilities in between two terminals. Building small was understandable at the time, but to the casual observer the location seems odd.

[Edited 2016-03-03 08:39:48]

s.p.a.s. · Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Yesterday I was discussing with a friend about Hainan serving SJC and the reason behind it (we could not find a good one) .. Now it is much clear ..

You learn something new everyday

wn676 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:57 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Interesting. Per letter I have from airport on behalf of a client they stated:

"With only 3 international gates and 1 FIS carousel"

Guess it depends on the equipment being gated. 18 appears to have an alternate lead-in line that blocks 17 when a widebody is parked there. Hopefully not drifting too far off topic, but do you know if those gates sized for a particular design aircraft? They don't seem to be fully Group V-capable.

SFOA380 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:19 pm

I think capacity for international arrivals and possible expansion will happen after the next downturn. If these flights stick and are able to weather the next down cycle, I think we'll see a complete rethinking of said facilities at SJC. If Silicon Valley gets hit hard (remember the Bay Area economy is one of extremes) I imagine that BA, LH and CA would be the first things that get cut. Naturally I hope this doesn't happen but it could.

BoeingGuy · Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 38):
I imagine that BA, LH and CA would be the first things that get cut. Naturally I hope this doesn't happen but it could.

I think BA will last. I'd say NH and BA and maybe HU will last long term. I'm less sure about LH and CA. LH is already pushing back their start date. LH announcing SJC seemed like a poorly planned knee-jerk reaction to BA announcing SJC.

alex0easy · Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:43 pm

Sometimes they just apply so that competitors in China (like MU or HU) cannot apply for the same route. Whether or not CA would actually fly that route is another story.

a380787 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:48 pm

Quoting alex0easy (Reply 40):

Sometimes they just apply so that competitors in China (like MU or HU) cannot apply for the same route. Whether or not CA would actually fly that route is another story.

This time is real - reservations is open and actual inventory has been loaded. Of course that could just cancel it right before the launch, but the chance of that is low. This is a relatively low risk route.

legacyins · Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:44 pm

On a side note, CA is increasing their SFO -PEK flights in August to 11 weekly. The new flights will be flown by a 77W in addition to the Daily 747-8. With the addition of the SJC flights, CA will offer double daily flights to China from the Bay Area.

jacobin777 · Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):
It seems like SJC is the new BOS (interestingly there are parallelisms in high-tech, high education...).

SJC has been "high tech" and "high education" for decades...

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
But SJC is full of new and not so new immigrants,

Silicon Valley definitely has both. Mostly "not so new immigrants".

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 6):
AS really needs to start some new routes from SJC.

Quoting SJCMSP (Reply 7):

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
1.5 million dollars

Just about every house period is $1.5 million.

It certainly seems like that lately. One can still get a "decent" house for $75k in updates just in the downstairs section alone to make it look "updated"/"modern". This doesn't even include strengthening the home structures, etc. Our home was still valued at close to a $1.0 million, even without a single upgrade/update.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9):
Hopefully AS can fill in a few of these gaps from SJC like FLL, EWR and BOS.

Would love to see AS expand here out of SJC.

Add AA codeshare to the routes and I'll be all over them.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):
what is next?

I know airport has spoken with KE.

KE would be very interesting and I can see them making it work.

I'm still not so sure if LH will do well however.

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 19):
Lucky lucky SJC..

After years, or should I say over a decade of neglect its nice to see SJC "get some lovin'"..

In all seriousness, Silicon Valley hasn't done too bad since the dot.com bust. Things got really bad back in 2002-2004. There were a lot of empty businesses. Interestingly enough, some "old tech" companies such as Microsoft, Dell and Amazon have increased their "footprint" in the Silicon Valley area.

mikesairways · Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:32 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 43):

KE would be very interesting and I can see them making it work.

KE always was speculated to be next...then came LH and now AirChina. LH was still a bit of a surprise.

anonms · Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:20 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 43):
After years, or should I say over a decade of neglect its nice to see SJC "get some lovin'"..

If they keep getting more international flights, though, they're gonna have to consider expanding (build out B-South and convert A into a larger IAB?) or something because the current IAB is adorably tiny.

AirFiero · Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:58 am

What about converting the lightly used terminal A extension (former AA hub gates) to an expanded intentional terminal? There is ramp space between the building and the terminal road to expand the inspection area and baggage claim. The gates at the end could accomodate larger aircraft because they are at an angle to the parallel taxiway.

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