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yellowtail
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EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:28 pm

Seems like EK is postponing PTY.

Link in Spanish.
http://laestrella.com.pa/economia/em...miento-vuelo-dubai-panama/23925380

I was looking forward to taking this flight later this year.

Now I doubt we will ever see it.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
winginit
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:33 pm

This flight was a belt measuring contest for the title of the world's longest route - nothing more, and with the launch of AKL nonstop we'll never see PTY unless EK gets truly desperate as to where to deploy their frames.
 
xcoaster1
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:39 pm

I thought they were delaying .. April 01 shows the flight commencing and available to book:


Depart — Fri, Apr 1 17h 20m
8:05a — 4:25p Economy 17h 20m
Dubai (DXB) — Panama City (PTY)
Copa Airlines 8031 · Wide-body Jet · Boeing 777-200LR
Operated by Emirates
 
TC957
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:46 pm

It's been removed from Galileo GDS. Guess forward bookings were disappointing, and the 77L can be better used for the new AKL service.
 
MAH4546
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:46 pm

Quoting xcoaster1 (Reply 2):

I thought they were delaying .. April 01 shows the flight commencing and available to book:

Not available to book on Emirates' website. I'm sure Emirates will do the whole "its coming in 2017" song and dance, but I'd be surprised.
a.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:47 pm

Seems pretty legit.

Unfortunate for Panama, but honestly, for a country with hardly 4M people, the market has been tough to support all of the long-haul growth as of late, with IB, KL and now AF + LH. TP is being suspended and EK is continually delayed.

I would have thought that with the CM codeshare, the route would have better chances at success...
 
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yellowtail
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:50 pm

what mystifies me is why they went for daily....when 4Xweek would have been a better start frequency.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
dubaiamman243
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:50 pm

its true. Un-bookable on Emirates.com

[Edited 2016-03-02 11:52:42]
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
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adamh8297
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:57 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 6):

what mystifies me is why they went for daily....when 4Xweek would have been a better start frequency.

Has there been an EK route launch lately that has been less than daily?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:01 pm

Wow I don't think Emirates has done this before with a route launch... Very disappointing.
 
LJ
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:11 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 5):
Unfortunate for Panama, but honestly, for a country with hardly 4M people, the market has been tough to support all of the long-haul growth as of late, with IB, KL and now AF + LH. TP is being suspended and EK is continually delayed.

You forgot the 3 weekly TK flights which is to beging on May 4th...
 
777way
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:29 pm

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 9):

They did with Harare in the 90s, and Kano a couple of years ago.
 
Hagic
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:22 pm

However, EK achieved the objective: it had the entire airline world talking about them for a couple of months. I wonder how much of announcements like these are just publicity stunts.
There's only one freedom of the press: The freedom of the survivors - (G. Arciniegas)
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:35 pm

Quoting Hagic (Reply 12):
I wonder how much of announcements like these are just publicity stunts.

Why? EK had legitimate reasons for thinking the route would work, and now has legitimate reasons for changing its mind.
 
EddieDude
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:49 pm

That is weird. I speculate that something must have happened during recent weeks. Two weeks ago or so, EK had big ads in major Mexican newspapers touting MEX-PTY-DXB-beyond flights with EK and CM. I even saw a billboard near the airport last Friday advertising EK and their ability to connect Mexican pax via PTY.

The press release has very generic language relating to market conditions. Seems to me (i) that despite all their efforts, EK was unable to get sufficient bookings for first weeks or months; or (ii) something happened that had them change their mind after all the advertising they had already made.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:59 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
Two weeks ago or so, EK had big ads in major Mexican newspapers touting MEX-PTY-DXB-beyond flights with EK and CM.

They're probably more bullish about the possibility of sending their own metal DXB-ZRH-MEX, if they were previously banking on MEX traffic to make the PTY flight work which wasn't an optimal idea.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:19 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 13):
EK had legitimate reasons for thinking the route would work

I'm not sure whether I believe this or not. The Copa feed always seemed shaky and this would be a super-expensive ULH flight. Longer than LAX for far less yield. AKL is certainly a better use of a few 77Ls.

I don't know if it was a "publicity stunt" but it was very speculative.
 
jacobin777
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:14 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):
Has there been an EK route launch lately that has been less than daily?

They fly to YYZ 3X/weekly but that's only due to restricted bilaterals.
"Up the Irons!"
 
EddieDude
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:54 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 15):
They're probably more bullish about the possibility of sending their own metal DXB-ZRH-MEX, if they were previously banking on MEX traffic to make the PTY flight work which wasn't an optimal idea.

I fully agree with you that, with respect to Mexico-originating and Mexico-bound traffic, the DXB-ZRH-MEX plan is much better.

Having said that, I do not think that PTY was planned primarily to connect MEX with the EK network. PTY was probably chosen because it allowed EK to reach many large and secondary markets in Mexico, Central America, the Caribbean and certain parts of South America on a one stop basis via a very efficient hub. I think that was the motivation for DXB-PTY and for the CM codeshare.

I remember that before EK decided to announce PTY, one could find decent fares for MEX-DXB-MEX via JFK with AM flying the MEX-JFK-MEX legs. I expect those fares will continue to be available (and perhaps via points other than JFK) until EK gains approval to fly to MEX via ZRH.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
DeltaB717
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:53 am

 
MAH4546
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:00 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 19):
Seems to be confirmed:
http://airlineroute.net/2016/03/03/ek-pty-s16update2/

It was already confirmed in this thread, which was probably the source of that post.
a.
 
KaiTak747
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:04 am

I read somewhere that there was an issue with 777 crew shortages, might that be the reason for the delay?
 
MAH4546
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:26 am

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 21):
I read somewhere that there was an issue with 777 crew shortages, might that be the reason for the delay?

There were flights in April with, literally, zero bookings. I think that has everything to do with it.
a.
 
upwardfacing
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:31 am

Link below from Panamanian news site, for Spanish-language readers:

http://www.tvn-2.com/economia/econom...sar-Dubai-Panama_0_4428307165.html

Article suggests postponement because of global economic conditions.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting winginit (Reply 1):
This flight was a belt measuring contest for the title of the world's longest route - nothing more, and with the launch of AKL nonstop we'll never see PTY unless EK gets truly desperate as to where to deploy their frames.

Following strictly a straight line:
DXB-PTY: 7463nm
DXB-AKL: 7668nm. Effective: March 01st, 2016.






.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 5):
the market has been tough to support all of the long-haul growth as of late, with IB, KL and now AF LH. TP is being suspended and EK is continually delayed.

The triangular TK IST-BOG-PTY-IST 3x weekly is due to start on May 04th.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
hz747300
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:47 am

I was in the camp that this doesn't start. Not for anything against EK, but just given how much International Traffic has already started at PTY--No cultural ties either. Not a large Indian community which would create pass through DXB traffic. There is a Lebanese community, but even that is not large enough to support flights which would require a few hour backtrack, after taking the longest flight in the world.

I don't think we'll see it.

New Zealand has a lot of cultural ties on the pass through DXB traffic and should be fine. Though, both New Zealand and Panama are close enough to the same population size.
Keep on truckin'...
 
PilotRecruit
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:51 am

I'm sure it has a little to do with forward bookings, but usually EK isn't shy at spending money to (hopefully) make money. My bet is it's the crew shortage. Houston loads weren't good so they needed to put a 777 on it, but no extra 777 available (or crew) so sudden announcement of the 380 on Washington. EK doesn't put a 380 on any flight number without notice and fan fare, but yet in the last few months we've seen this a number of times. Go have a look at PPrune - morale is rock bottom. Dark clouds on the horizon for something that can be easily fixed.

EK has grand visions of being a brand that's synonymous with the likes of Coca Cola, Nike, Apple, Google etc., but they seem to forget that at the end of the day they're an airline which needs their planes flying to drive their brand forward. Make no mistake, their marketing team is genius, but some of the most fundamental elements of running an airline have been completely overlooked. I do hope they do something about this before its too far gone. Having to delay a route launch might be just the ticket though...
"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
 
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tomascubero
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:16 am

Going to stretch out a bit on this theory, very unlikely but worth mentioning.

Just a few weeks ago we had UAE Foreign Affairs Minister Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan visit SJO for an official visit. A few open-sky agreements were signed and revised but not much mentioned on the media. The EK flight to PTY was initially delayed and now it seems gone until further notice. MAYBE and this is a HUGE maybe, they could be reconsdering the DXB-PTY route to be a triangular DXB-SJO-PTY-DXB flight. He was also in Panama & Colombia so it could even be DXB-BOG-PTY-DXB. I just seem it interesting he was just in the region about three weeks ago and then this happens now. Could be the reason it is being held off for now.

Regards,
Tomas from SJO
 
leftyboarder
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:59 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):


I am thinking somehow that, regardless of price, people weren't that willing to fly MEX-PTY-DXB-India when they could do MEX-Europe-India at half the time.
 
dubaiamman243
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:22 am

As per EK statement:

“We firmly believe in the potential of Central America, and remain keen to link the Emirates network to the region,” an Emirates spokesperson said, in a statement.

“We will retain staff in Panama City to continue developing our presence, as well as commercial opportunities with our industry partners, and will launch by the end of 2016 or early 2017 as soon as conditions allow. The decision was made after an extensive review of all operational factors, including fleet utilisation and commercial demand from key markets against the global economic outlook.”

Source: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/emira...-longest-flight-panama-623675.html
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
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AirIndia
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:46 am

Quoting tomascubero (Reply 27):
UAE Foreign Affairs Minister Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan

While your observation is great, the fact is that UAE foreign affiars mionister will have no bearing on flights from DXB. For that DXB's GCAA will do the agreement. Abdullah bin Zayed is from AUH and his push will be EY rather than EK.

Although its one country, the UAE is really a loose fedearion of 7 states (called emirates) with a union govt to have an international face but all 7 emirates have their own rules and laws.
 
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Miami
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:08 pm

No surprise at all. I honestly didn't know how Emirates could make PTY work.
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yellowtail
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:38 pm

Quoting dubaiamman243 (Reply 29):
The decision was made after an extensive review of all operational factors, including fleet utilisation and commercial demand from key markets against the global economic outlook.”

In other words., loads sucked.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
winGl3t
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:17 pm

Quoting PilotRecruit (Reply 26):
so sudden announcement of the 380 on Washington

The sudden A380 to IAD is related to the fact UA suspended flights from IAD to DXB, KWI and BAH and most of that demand would migrate overnight to EK.
 
a380787
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:20 pm

For once, the naysayers proven correct (I was one of them). I simply didn't know what natural demand existed at all between PTY and MiddleEast+India.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:46 am

Quoting ytraveller (Reply 9):
Wow I don't think Emirates has done this before with a route launch... Very disappointing.

If EK wanted PTY to work in the first place, it'd have routed the flight via somewhere in Europe without a non-stop flight to PTY and where EK could get 5th freedom.
Seems it's was a prestige thing bullying about the longest flight in the world for a lot of people from EK, DXB and PTY.

  
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
incitatus
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:32 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 31):
No surprise at all. I honestly didn't know how Emirates could make PTY work.

Exactly!

Even for the scale of EK, all easy pickings are gone. The markets EK is considering are borderline and smaller.

As much as people hope otherwise, Panama City is a small business city. The presence of air service in PTY has 100% to do with the connectivity of the Copa network.

All those other markets where connecting through PTY on EK is an improvement in service are too small to matter.

Finally, I do see this as Emirates due diligence process for new routes resulted in a big mistake.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Josh32121
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:52 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 35):
If EK wanted PTY to work in the first place, it'd have routed the flight via somewhere in Europe without a non-stop flight to PTY and where EK could get 5th freedom.
Seems it's was a prestige thing bullying about the longest flight in the world for a lot of people from EK, DXB and PTY.

From the GC map, MAD sure would have made a lot of sense. And maybe pick up some more conventional traffic to bolster it, too.

Regardless, I never got DXB-PTY either.
ATLien
 
DeltaRules
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:04 am

PTY struck me as "We're going to start it because we can". I'm surprised they cancelled it.
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2travel2know2
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:10 am

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 37):
From the GC map, MAD sure would have made a lot of sense. And maybe pick up some more conventional traffic to bolster it, too.

Spain would have never allowed EK to fly to PTY via MAD (neither via BCN, VLC, AGP, BIO nor PMI for that matter).
That DXB had a tailor made stop en-route to PTY which would have granted acceptable yields if 5th freedom were allowed: STN.
Because there aren't any LON-PTY non-stop flights yet.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Viscount724
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:30 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 38):
PTY struck me as "We're going to start it because we can". I'm surprised they cancelled it.

According to this Bloomberg article 2 days ago, Panama has the fastest-growing economy in Latin America, and it's nearby neighbors in Central America are also doing much better than the rest of Latin America.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...e-americas-is-loving-the-oil-slump
 
Freshside3
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RE: EK Postpones PTY?

Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:39 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 10):

You forgot the 3 weekly TK flights which is to beging on May 4th...

LH also has recently added FRA-PTY, which also may have been a factor.

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