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greenair727
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:34 pm

[quote=lakeeffect]Looks like the announcement is Allegiant.

I see on their route map CLE- AUS, FLL, PGD, JAX, MYR, MSY, AZA, SAV, SFB, PIE.[/quote]

Allegiant--disappointing. At least we getting some markets we're currently missing, but at less than daily, its not so meaningful. Hopefully, at the very least it will drive down CPE at Hopkins.

But given so many secondary airports served (e.g., AZA vs PHX; SFB vs. MCO), they're a better match for BKL instead of CLE---zip in and zip out on both ends of the trip in both directions. Would have worked for all of the route, with except for maybe AZA which may be out of range for BKL depending on what equipment they use.
 
msycajun
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:40 pm

That's a huge expansion right off the bat for G4. I'm happy to see MSY and CLE connected again, although I'd prefer to see it on more reliable carrier such as WN or even NK.
 
joeman
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:46 pm

Been thinking of Allegiant recently since I think CLE is the only Ohio market not on their map. Even thought about a BKL op like greenair727 suggests. Definitely a nice line up of destinations under their model...still hoping as always for AS in near future.
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:49 pm

masseybrown wrote:
lakeeffect wrote:
Looks like the announcement is Allegiant.

I see on their route map CLE- AUS, FLL, PGD, JAX, MYR, MSY, AZA, SAV, SFB, PIE.


That would equal maybe 3 flights a day? Even so, it's impressive. It's "Sustainability Day" at City Hall; so I was afraid this would be an announcement of the green roof project. ;)


Allegiant is highly seasonal so it will be interesting what they fly in the summer. With the number of flights they are initially offering from CLE, this should easily add another 200,000+ pax to the yearly total, inching closer to the 9 million mark during the United hub.

It really is impressive the amount of new, albeit low cost, service CLE has picked up post hub. I wonder how much of this new service has squeezed any potential Southwest plans at CLE? For example, CLE is one of their few northern stations without nonstop service to Florida. The next WN adds will probably be more business oriented now, which is a good thing.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:59 pm

6 of the 10 new CLE cities are already served from CAK. Do you think Allegiant will close those CAK routes in favor of the heavier loads at CLE---and thus perhaps be able to offer 5-7x weekly service?
 
greenair727
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:02 pm

^This source out of Youngstown seems to answer the above question (though not about frequency of service):

"YOUNGSTOWN — The Western Reserve Port Authority received some good news this morning regarding its longtime air carrier, Allegiant. The airline told Dan Dickten, aviation director at the Youngstown Warren Regional Airport, that the flights it has at the Akron Canton Regional Airport will move to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport in February. Those flights being another 20 miles away from Youngstown should help boost Allegiant flights in Youngstown, Dickten said."

http://www.vindy.com/news/2016/sep/21/a ... cleveland/
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:09 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^This source out of Youngstown seems to answer the above question (though not about frequency of service):

"YOUNGSTOWN — The Western Reserve Port Authority received some good news this morning regarding its longtime air carrier, Allegiant. The airline told Dan Dickten, aviation director at the Youngstown Warren Regional Airport, that the flights it has at the Akron Canton Regional Airport will move to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport in February. Those flights being another 20 miles away from Youngstown should help boost Allegiant flights in Youngstown, Dickten said."

http://www.vindy.com/news/2016/sep/21/a ... cleveland/


That would be interesting if true. Allegiant's model of serving the secondary airport in the market has certainly shifted in recent months.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1492
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:39 pm

Another blow for CAK. It's got to be getting pretty skinny their operating wise.

While I'm underwhelmed at yet another unreliable carrier at CLE, I guess it helps lower operating costs and debt. I'm assuming they will be a Concourse A tenant?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5384
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:08 pm

In the first half of 2016, G4 had 218 departures from CAK carrying 32,953 pax (88.2% L/F). Monthly departures ranged from a low of 25 in Feb to a high of 60 in June. Their 319s seat 156 and the MD80s 166; let's say 161 per flight average..
Their initial schedule in CLE is 22 departures a week, increasing to 24 in April; so they're putting 7,000 - 7,600 O&D seats on the market weekly. That is a big step up from CAK and is approximately the level at which Spirit began in CLE.
 
joeman
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:44 pm

since I'm a CLE person recognizing and appreciating the region with CAK in the mix, I'm glad CAK is getting NK service soon and more frequent departures to Florida/south
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:43 pm

The VP of planning at G4 said that the base of their CAK users were coming from the CLE area.

If that's the case, it makes sense to consolidate at CLE where more potential customers reside. I wonder how much of CAK's traffic is still coming from areas closer to CLE?

CAK certainly serves a purpose in the NE Ohio air market, but it's still struggling to find its niche post UA hub and post FL/WN drawdown.
 
Hillis
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:10 am

fun2fly wrote:
I was at CLE yesterday in Concourse C and didn't see any signs of AA moving to C. Actually, CLE branded all the gates and check in desks in their logos, something you would not expect if they planned on a tenant being there anytime soon. Any update on the AA to C move?


I was at CLE a few months back, and I THINK what they're doing is haven a generic screen, that they can put up flight information for more than one airline on the backdrop. Quite a few airports are doing that, and I imagine with the talk of AA moving there, and I would think perhaps G4 might end up there, it gives them some gate flexibility, especially during irregular ops.
 
ATLFlyer323
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:01 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:27 am

fun2fly wrote:
Another blow for CAK. It's got to be getting pretty skinny their operating wise.

While I'm underwhelmed at yet another unreliable carrier at CLE, I guess it helps lower operating costs and debt. I'm assuming they will be a Concourse A tenant?


Well CAK is picking up NK service, to basically every destination that G4 dropped. G4 decided not to fight NK (probably smart) and move to the larger airport. As someone who uses CAK over CLE I hope NK will stay, and with a former FL boss at NK I think they will. But we shall see, things are different in NE Ohio now than they were when he was running FL. I don't mind the drive to CLE, but I've learned many times here in the winter I would much rather fly into CAK, especially during snowy weather.

I know all you CLE lovers think your airport should be the only one open, but the truth is CAK does serve a lot of communities that don't want to have to try and make a 1 to 3 hour drive to CLE in a winter storm. Two winters ago when I flew back from Sweden my UA flight from ORD to CLE was delayed 8 hours (ORD is hell, I now use DTW on DL for any winter connections) then the drive from CLE down to Canton took me another 2 hours. I now pay more to fly from CAK for any winters trips, lesson learned.
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
greenair727
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:55 am

I know all you CLE lovers think your airport should be the only one open, but the truth is CAK does serve a lot of communities that don't want to have to try and make a 1 to 3 hour drive to CLE in a winter storm.


Not so. I'd like to see BKL serve more so in a secondary capacity. In fact, I would have preferred these G4 flights there than at Hopkins. Of course, to your point about winter weather and the drive up from Canton, BKL is no different, or worse, for folks coming from Canton or Akron. I have no issue with CAK's presence, though disagreed with its aggressive marketing to steal pax from CLE to undermine the CO/UA hub at time when the hub was threatened. CAK, in a sense, played into UA's hands, doing its dirty work for them. The CO/UA hub was good for the entire region. By helping to kill it, CAK not only hurt the city of Cleveland, but the entire region to include Akron and Canton.
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:58 pm

masseybrown wrote:
In the first half of 2016, G4 had 218 departures from CAK carrying 32,953 pax (88.2% L/F). Monthly departures ranged from a low of 25 in Feb to a high of 60 in June. Their 319s seat 156 and the MD80s 166; let's say 161 per flight average..
Their initial schedule in CLE is 22 departures a week, increasing to 24 in April; so they're putting 7,000 - 7,600 O&D seats on the market weekly. That is a big step up from CAK and is approximately the level at which Spirit began in CLE.


It should also be noted that B6 started CLE with about 4,900 weekly seats and is now at 6,300 weekly seats. So G4 is already coming in larger than what B6 has grown into.

Unlike F9, Allegiant's less than daily model seems to optimize the days/times the flight operates towards vacationers, so that should help fill more seats.

Interestingly NK has just announced CAK-LAS beginning in late April. It will be interesting to see what further expansion NK has for CAK. I could see them growing nicely at CAK in the coming year with the lack of direct competition at CAK.
 
Robert1010
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:07 pm

I know the CLE / CAK metro is a pretty big area north to south and does probably require 2 airports, but I wish the area would come together a build a new airport more
centrally in the region,maybe around Akron! Smh ,will never happen!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5384
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:30 pm

Robert1010 wrote:
I know the CLE / CAK metro is a pretty big area north to south and does probably require 2 airports, but I wish the area would come together a build a new airport more
centrally in the region,maybe around Akron! Smh ,will never happen!


CLE is where it is for a two reasons: 1) the land was available within city limits - probably the chief reason, but 2) most lake-effect snow falls to the east of it. The airport used to brag about rarely being closed for weather.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1297
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:48 pm

^^Akron is clearly not the center of the region's population. It may be physically in the center, but if you weigh the region for population it would certainly be in Cuyahoga County---and for ops reasons stated by masseybrown, above, the west side is preferable to the east.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5384
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:24 am

UA appears to have a couple of interesting changes coming up in Feb. CLE-DCA goes to from 5 to 6 flights (all E145) and CLE-IAH stays at 4 flights but they will be all E145's. The oil business traffic and LatAm connections must have evaporated.
 
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SQ22
Moderator
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 13

Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:46 am

Due to the fact that there are several topics being discussed in this thread moderators decided to lock it and to open a new thread. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates there.

Link to new thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1343657
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