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ro1960
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AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:07 am

Two articles about a near collision between an AF A319 F-GKXT inbound from BCN during approach on CDG runway 26L.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20160304/air-...r-miss-with-drone-at-paris-airport

http://avherald.com/h?article=494ca6ab&opt=0
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sebolino
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:45 am

I heard that. Really scary.
I wonder how authorities will fight against criminals who send drones where they could provoke a tragedy ...
 
nema
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:27 am

Governments are far too lenient in penalties for this new and threatening drone era. Punishments should be extremely harsh and made headline news so everyone is aware of their fate for just flying a drone in the wrong area. Similarly purchase registration should be brought in along with simple technology of an emitting signal from the drone on its licence number or similar to match to owner. It sounds drastic but so are the possible consequences. How long before we find a topic in this forum of an actual collision I wonder? You can bet your bottom dollar that the terrorists are on it.
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DXTraveler
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:21 pm

It's only a matter of time. Pray it's not catastrophic when it does.
 
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ro1960
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:27 pm

Newscaster on French radio this morning said drones are too small to show up on radar screens. So I agree with nema, some other system should be in place to locate them.
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breiz
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:50 pm

The reports state that the close encounter took place at an altitude of 1,500 m.
Standard private/commercial drones have a ceiling of 4 to 600 m.
It is also said that the software of these private/commercial drones display forbidden fly-zones (and maybe block flying there)
The drone in question must therefore be a sophisticated one which is not in the hands of just anybody.
 
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inflightVideo
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:44 pm

Quoting breiz (Reply 5):
The reports state that the close encounter took place at an altitude of 1,500 m.
Standard private/commercial drones have a ceiling of 4 to 600 m.
It is also said that the software of these private/commercial drones display forbidden fly-zones (and maybe block flying there)
The drone in question must therefore be a sophisticated one which is not in the hands of just anybody.

You are correct that some DJI UAVs block flying close to airports, but most others don't. I agree that 5,000ft is a long way up for a UAV, even Phantoms wouldn't get up to that height controlled. Remember that the controllers only have a range of around 1,000ft, and it becomes clear that there is every chance the UAV was out of the range of control, either on autopilot mode or after a loss of control/system failure. Even then, the batteries would almost never allow a flight time allowing it to reach 5,000ft, and bring it back down again safely, you get maybe 10 minutes if you are lucky.

Of course they should never be flown near to airports, I wouldn't be comfortable flying mine near to an uncontrolled airfield let alone a major airport. At the height mine could reach if I lost control (2,000ft or so before the battery dies), it could easily cause some damage to passing aircraft. I get paranoid enough as it is sending it up to 1,000ft that some low flying maniac (yes we occasionally get them near to us) would hit it, let alone in the line of fire at 2,000ft.

[Edited 2016-03-04 06:51:43]
 
dean
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting breiz (Reply 5):
The reports state that the close encounter took place at an altitude of 1,500 m.
Standard private/commercial drones have a ceiling of 4 to 600 m.
It is also said that the software of these private/commercial drones display forbidden fly-zones (and maybe block flying there)
The drone in question must therefore be a sophisticated one which is not in the hands of just anybody.

Not exactly. For example an outdated DJI Phantom 2 which costs like 600 EUR on ebay can go up as high as 2.5 km without any problems (first hand experience). Some newer drones are limited to 600 m by software which isn't that hard to jailbrake.
 
flaps30
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:28 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 1):
I wonder how authorities will fight against criminals who send drones where they could provoke a tragedy ...

The same way they are fighting now, with a limp wrist.
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N415XJ
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting breiz (Reply 5):

The drone in question must therefore be a sophisticated one which is not in the hands of just anybody.

I believe that the commercial quadcopters made for non-hobbyists have some sort of altitude limit. However, quadcopters made available to hobbyists use what's called 2.4ghz technology for their transmitters, and these can easily have a range of several kilometers. As a basic rule, quadcopters equipped with this technology can travel far past where you can see them with the naked eye.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Perhaps an individual or groups with devious minds and ill-intent are operating UAV's in restricted areas, and not a careless hobbyist.....

Somewhere I read that radical groups are working on equipping UAV's with explosives and/or chemical weapons.
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curlyheadboy
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:36 pm

Just curious... what sort of damage hitting one of those things could cause to a plane? I don't fly drones but I took one in my hands and it feels quite light. I guess if hit head on, it would bust the radome or crack the windshield, if hit by the wings/elevator/stabilizer it could cause a decent dent on the leading edge, and if ingested it could take an engine out.
Safe the recklessness of flying drones near airplane traffic, do you think it could be worse than a large bird strike?
If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
 
N415XJ
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:19 am

Quoting curlyheadboy (Reply 11):
do you think it could be worse than a large bird strike?

I agree with you- even though quadcopters are (sometimes) made of metal I can't see why a strike would be so much worse than a bird strike. Bigger ones can be quite heavy, but then again so can birds. Also, quads don't typically travel in flocks. I suppose the main legitimate concern is that they could be fitted with explosives theoretically, but then again you could theoretically buy a rocket launcher off the black market and use that instead.

I believe that the whole 'drone' problem is just another issue inflated just to scare people and keep news viewership up. You can't really fear-monger based on bird strikes, but you can very easily start calling quadcopters 'drones', which people already associate with weapons and terrorism, and say that they're some new huge threat in order to drum up some more ad revenue.
 
32andBelow
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:40 am

Quoting curlyheadboy (Reply 11):
Just curious... what sort of damage hitting one of those things could cause to a plane? I don't fly drones but I took one in my hands and it feels quite light. I guess if hit head on, it would bust the radome or crack the windshield, if hit by the wings/elevator/stabilizer it could cause a decent dent on the leading edge, and if ingested it could take an engine out.
Safe the recklessness of flying drones near airplane traffic, do you think it could be worse than a large bird strike?

Some people say it will make the plane explode. I believe almost no damage if not through the engine, and if sucked through the engine at worst 1 engine out. I believe there is less danger than a flock of birds.
 
rbavfan
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:55 am

Quoting nema (Reply 2):

You have to register your drone in the US now.
 
QFA380
Posts: 2012
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:35 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 13):

I believe almost no damage if not through the engine, and if sucked through the engine at worst 1 engine out.

People with a thin piece of plexiglass between them and air rushing past at hundreds of miles an hour would probably disagree. 300knots at 5000ft is not uncommon and the results won't be pretty.

I fly Cessnas and the thought of a drone through my windscreen is terrifying. I can guarantee you it would kill me. A DJI Phantom 3, a very popular drone weighs 1.3kg. If you threw a 1.3kg rock at a Cessna windscreen it'll go through it, now try at 120knots; oh and give that rock some spinning blades.

The danger is much higher for general aviation than large passenger jets. We fly all over the place and often quite low (500-2000ft), particularly over scenic areas. I don't think it will be long before droners are required to have a radio but any laws will inevitably be written with blood just like aviation has always been.
 
Viper911
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:07 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 9):
I believe that the commercial quadcopters made for non-hobbyists have some sort of altitude limit. However, quadcopters made available to hobbyists use what's called 2.4ghz technology for their transmitters, and these can easily have a range of several kilometers. As a basic rule, quadcopters equipped with this technology can travel far past where you can see them with the naked eye.

Just go on the youtube and check for altitude tests for phantom 3 or inspire 1 drones, which are among the most popular drones out there, they can reach up 1500 feet without any problems.

Viper911
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: AF A319 Near Collision With Drone

Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:32 am

When drones are outlawed, only outlaws will have drones....

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