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a380787
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:01 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 49):
QF: A388 + 744(ER)
VA: 77W
DL: 77L
AA: 77W
UA: 77E

For better (or worse), the UA service is slated to switch to 789. QF+UA are the only ones flying to any US lower48 airport other than LAX. QF+VA+UA are the ones flying US lower48 to any Australian airport other than SYD.

There's all that HA/JQ service to Hawaii but that's a different topic.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:14 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 49):
Sure, but the route's primary point of sale overall is HKG, not stateside.
Which is a main reason CX has run the table, essentially unchallenged, for about a decade.

My partner flew this route 8 times last year, all in J class. He's already flown it 3 times this year. He has observed differently. A significant number of the passengers he sees in J class are just like him, AAdvantage members. (He can tell by the tags on their bags.)

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 49):
Not so confident that that'll be the case. Wouldn't be surprised to see fierce competition between the two.

If AA really thought it would have to compete with CX, it would have pulled the codeshare from LAX. (No codeshare, no direct feed, no AA corporate customers, no Fly America traffic for CX.)

At the moment, all the signs suggest that the two are going to coexist.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:46 pm

Quoting ldvaviation (Reply 51):
He has observed differently.

You're not seriously presenting "look at the tags" on three spot occasions as a remotely accurate method of gauging market dynamics.... are you?


Quoting ldvaviation (Reply 51):
If AA really thought it would have to compete with CX, it would have pulled the codeshare from LAX.

Based on what? AA has no history of doing that one way or the other.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
runway23
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:32 pm

Press release is out: http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/american-air...vice-from-los-angeles-to-hong-kong

Start Date: Sept. 7
Schedule: LAX-HKG
Departs LAX at 1:55 a.m.
Arrives at HKG at 8:10 a.m. (next day)

(Subject to regulatory approval) HKG-LAX
Departs HKG at 8:20 p.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:40 p.m.
Aircraft: Boeing 777-300ER
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:40 pm

At this point, they may as well go for the gusto... cat's out of the bag.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MAH4546
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:41 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 53):

Press release is out: http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/american-air...vice-from-los-angeles-to-hong-kong

Start Date: Sept. 7
Schedule: LAX-HKG
Departs LAX at 1:55 a.m.
Arrives at HKG at 8:10 a.m. (next day)

(Subject to regulatory approval) HKG-LAX
Departs HKG at 8:20 p.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:40 p.m.
Aircraft: Boeing 777-300ER

It actually looks to compliment CX's schedule very well, even though they don't have an ATI/can't coordinate schedules.

The three AA/CX redeyes on LAXHKG are going to be separated by about 1.5-2 hours each.

This also fills the big gap CX has between 430pm and 12am, in between which there is no non-stop HKGLAX flight.
a.
 
jacobchoi
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:30 pm

I know this is somewhat unrelated, but something caught my eye on the press release:

"American Airlines and American Eagle offer an average of nearly 6,700 flights per day"

and this:

"American is a founding member of the oneworld alliance, whose members and members-elect serve nearly 1,000 destinations with 14,250 daily flights to 150 countries."

I know that AA is now the largest airline in the world but to think that they are close to operating half of Oneworld's flights is quite hard to imagine.

Anyways, congrats to AA!
 
a380787
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:53 pm

0155 LAX ? I'd be shot-ing red bull at the lounge just to be awake for the boarding to commence
 
us330
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:43 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 53):
Start Date: Sept. 7
Schedule:LAX-HKG
Departs LAX at 1:55 a.m.
Arrives at HKG at 8:10 a.m. (next day)

(Subject to regulatory approval)HKG-LAX
Departs HKG at 8:20 p.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:40 p.m.
Aircraft:Boeing 777-300ER

Like everyone expected, the timing enables a W routing of the aircraft to decrease the time AA spends on the ground at HKG.
 
tortugamon
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:59 am

Quoting us330 (Reply 58):
Like everyone expected, the timing enables a W routing of the aircraft to decrease the time AA spends on the ground at HKG.

Yeah I see the DFW flight taking off from HKG at 1:10pm and arriving back at HKG 6:10pm which goes from 19 hour over night to a 5 hour turn and a sub 2 hour turn for the LAX flight which will greatly improve utilization.

tortugamon
 
commavia
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 55):
It actually looks to compliment CX's schedule very well, even though they don't have an ATI/can't coordinate schedules.

  

As expected - this schedule does, indeed, seem to compliment Cathay's existing flights well. Similar to the relationship with Alaska when AA announced LAX-SEA, while these two airlines cannot outright collude (no antitrust immunity), one is clearly signaling to the other that by spacing out their respective flights to offer a complimentary schedule, they can therefore continue to offer the most comprehensive schedule in the market.

That being said, I, too, am a bit nonplussed by the schedule. While it seems optimal for 2-way connectivity on the HKG end, it seems quite suboptimal from a connectivity (if not aircraft scheduling) standpoint on the LAX end, with many markets requiring very long layovers to connect to these flights (if 2-way connections are even possible at all). Plus, as already said, that 0155 departure is extremely late - believe it will actually be the latest scheduled departure out of LAX. I recognize the slot and competitive considerations, but I was hoping for a somewhat tighter schedule enabled by a shifting of the DFW schedule, something like:

DFW 1045 1555 HKG (in line with the PVG, ICN and first NRT departures)
HKG 1755 1615 LAX
LAX 2255 HKG 0510
HKG 1355 DFW 1600

Nonetheless, awesome - and impressive - to see AA continuing to expand and develop its nonstop U.S.-Asia network.
 
USAirALB
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:46 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 54):
Start Date: Sept. 7
Schedule: LAX-HKG
Departs LAX at 1:55 a.m.
Arrives at HKG at 8:10 a.m. (next day)

(Subject to regulatory approval) HKG-LAX
Departs HKG at 8:20 p.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:40 p.m.
Aircraft: Boeing 777-300ER

I'm glad they are doing an overnight, but that's an incredibly awkward schedule if one is making connections from the East coast.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
HPAEAA
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:57 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 61):

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 54):
Start Date: Sept. 7
Schedule: LAX-HKG
Departs LAX at 1:55 a.m.
Arrives at HKG at 8:10 a.m. (next day)

(Subject to regulatory approval) HKG-LAX
Departs HKG at 8:20 p.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:40 p.m.
Aircraft: Boeing 777-300ER

I'm glad they are doing an overnight, but that's an incredibly awkward schedule if one is making connections from the East coast.

True, but glad theres another back up for misconnects! all kidding aside, it does greatly reduce the downtime for the 773 frames, for my May DFW HKG flight the A/C is spending over 20 hours on the ground in HKG (in at 6:00 pm - Out at 2:30 pm the next day), guessing that they only need to add 1 more frame to HKG to make this work.
1.4mm and counting...
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 53):
Start Date: Sept. 7
Schedule:LAX-HKG
Departs LAX at 1:55 a.m.
Arrives at HKG at 8:10 a.m. (next day)

(Subject to regulatory approval)HKG-LAX
Departs HKG at 8:20 p.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:40 p.m.
Aircraft:Boeing 777-300ER

Very good news. Hopefully AA adds more Asian routes out of LAX. The proposed schedule compliments so well with CX' schedule as of summer 2016:

HKG-LAX
CX898 0930-0745
CX884 1255-1110
CX882 1635-1450
AA 2020-1840
CX880 0005-2210-1

LAX-HKG: AA adds one more popular overnight flight
CX883 2355-0545+2
CX881 0055-0645+1
AA 0155-0810+1
CX897 0930-1525+1
CX885 1255-1855+1
 
N1120A
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 55):
It actually looks to compliment CX's schedule very well, even though they don't have an ATI/can't coordinate schedules.

The three AA/CX redeyes on LAXHKG are going to be separated by about 1.5-2 hours each.

This also fills the big gap CX has between 430pm and 12am, in between which there is no non-stop HKGLAX flight.

It really does make sense. Now, will this 77W sit at LAX or is it going to turn somewhere east and have something else head toward HKG?

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
But then again, many has frequently claimed how the 77E struggles on anything above 7500mi, and UA flies it nonstop on routes up to 8060mi every day, rarely requiring a fuel stop.

You are confusing nautical and statute miles.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
a380787
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:52 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 64):

No I'm not. EWR-HKG is roughly 8060 STATUTE miles.
 
pasu129
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:00 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 64):
It really does make sense. Now, will this 77W sit at LAX or is it going to turn somewhere east and have something else head toward HKG?

Looks like DFW HKG arriving at 1835 is going to do the turn around for HKG LAX departs 2020.

And LAX HKG arriving 0810 is going to do the turn around for HKG DFW departs 1340.



[Edited 2016-03-08 20:03:45]
Viva Las Vegas
 
ldvaviation
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:04 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 52):
You're not seriously presenting "look at the tags" on three spot occasions as a remotely accurate method of gauging market dynamics.... are you?

And, what evidence have you presented for your claims?

At least I can draw on anecdotal evidence of a frequent business traveler on this route. What do you have? Pure speculation?

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 52):
Based on what? AA has no history of doing that one way or the other.

When AA started DFW-ICN, it terminated an interline agreement with Korean.

Many business travelers use the Cathay codeshare through LAX to get to India. When Qatar joined the oneworld alliance, it should have opened another scissor hub to India for AA's Los Angeles customers. It never happened because AA did not put its code on Qatar flights out of LAX.

While that is not an example of pulling a codeshare, it is an example of AA picking winners and losers in the market with its codeshare authority. My partner wanted to use Doha as a scissor hub to India, but without an AA code on the transoceanic sector from LA he can't purchase the non-stop flight under his corporate contract.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:04 am

The one I've never understood, is why people seemed to be of the belief that the 772ER would struggle with distance on a proposed MIA-NRT route... yet it seems to be a rather pervasive belief around here.

I get that it, especially in AA's previous layout, likely would be too high cost for the that airline/market combination.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MAH4546
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:19 am

Quoting ldvaviation (Reply 67):
When AA started DFW-ICN, it terminated an interline agreement with Korean.

Since then, though, the KE code is now on the AA DFWICN flight (but AA's code not on KE's flight).
a.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:31 am

Quoting ldvaviation (Reply 67):
My partner wanted to use Doha as a scissor hub to India, but without an AA code on the transoceanic sector from LA he can't purchase the non-stop flight under his corporate contract.

Same thing at DFW with QR. It is weird. My hunch says it has something to do with Etihad carrying the AA code to AUH. But both carriers operate at ORD two and carry the code?

Quoting commavia (Reply 60):
That being said, I, too, am a bit nonplussed by the schedule. While it seems optimal for 2-way connectivity on the HKG end, it seems quite suboptimal from a connectivity (if not aircraft scheduling) standpoint on the LAX end, with many markets requiring very long layovers to connect to these flights (if 2-way connections are even possible at all). Plus, as already said, that 0155 departure is extremely late - believe it will actually be the latest scheduled departure out of LAX.

Perhaps that is because DFW will handle all of the connections and LAX will focus more on O&D?
 
N1120A
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:33 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 65):
No I'm not. EWR-HKG is roughly 8060 STATUTE miles

And the struggles for the 77E would be over 7500 NAUTICAL miles, as it only has about 200-250nm more still air range.

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 66):
Looks like DFW HKG arriving at 1835 is going to do the turn around for HKG LAX departs 2020.

And LAX HKG arriving 0810 is going to do the turn around for HKG DFW departs 1340.

I mean the LAX end.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
a380787
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:39 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 71):

Depends on how you define "struggle". EWR HKG is the single longest 77E route currently, and I believe ever. 7500nm great circle distance is 8600+smi, SOLIDLY in 77L zone.
 
Viscount724
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:51 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
But then again, many has frequently claimed how the 77E struggles on anything above 7500mi, and UA flies it nonstop on routes up to 8060mi every day, rarely requiring a fuel stop.

But how much cargo? Probably virtually none.
 
a380787
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:56 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 73):

Not every route needs that much cargo to sustain profitability. EK and UA defies conventional wisdom daily with their routes far below max cargo payload.

If cargo were ever a concern, SFO-SIN would've never been announced with a relatively new-build 789. And speaking of cargo, UA consistently carries more cargo ton miles than either AA or DL.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:58 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 2):
Sydney, Auckland, Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo and now Hong Kong from LAX. Not bad at all!

Hopefully a sign of things to come! Go AA!
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
N1120A
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:05 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 73):
But how much cargo? Probably virtually none.

They carry cargo in one direction.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:23 am

Quoting ldvaviation (Reply 67):
And, what evidence have you presented for your claims?

DL's previous quarterly, where Anderson details the stats on point of sale relative to other US carriers, as an explanation why they've struggled so much to break the market from their most recent attempts from three different gateways. It's overwhelmingly on the Asian side.


Quoting a380787 (Reply 72):
EWR HKG is the single longest 77E route currently, and I believe ever.

By GC distance, it is.

Though both UA's BOM-EWR (and DL's JFK-BOM before it) are officially blocked longer, and tend to have longer scheduled westbound flight times due to routing, than EWR-HKG or HKG-EWR does.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
DFWEagle
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:50 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 60):
That being said, I, too, am a bit nonplussed by the schedule. While it seems optimal for 2-way connectivity on the HKG end, it seems quite suboptimal from a connectivity (if not aircraft scheduling) standpoint on the LAX end, with many markets requiring very long layovers to connect to these flights (if 2-way connections are even possible at all). Plus, as already said, that 0155 departure is extremely late - believe it will actually be the latest scheduled departure out of LAX.

It is worth mentioning that Hong Kong does not observe daylight savings while the USA does. Therefore, this schedule (effective Sep 7th) will only last until Nov 6th, after which it will need to change. Assuming AA has the same arrival and departure times in Hong Kong for the whole IATA winter season, the schedule will mean an hour earlier departure from LAX (more respectable 00:55), and an hour earlier arrival back in LAX (17:40). This will be from Nov 6th until Mar 8th.

AA's schedule is not optimal, but there are considerable scheduling constraints in this market. Slots are now very scarce in HKG, so it is virtually impossible to get one at the peak arrival times (05:30-07:30) since other carriers are already ahead in the wait list. AA is quite fortunate to finally get the one they (hopefully!) now have. Also, AA will have gating constraints in LAX with fewer widebody gates at T4 and the late evening is the peak hour at TBIT.
Ryan in DFW
 
Norcal773
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:58 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Way to go AA, finally going all out to Asia. Hoping something good happens at Haneda, JFK to HND would be great to go along with the Los Angeles flight.

AA had this route on a 772 and gave it up about 2 years ago.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 16):
In my own Top-10 hubs in our world, HKG and LAX would both be there, dont care at the moment about relative position. So to find that AA will START a flight LAX - HKG is a shock to my system! I had assumed that such service had existed for decades!

CX flies the route to the tune of 4X daily and codeshares with AA. I really don't see the need for the route if you ask me.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
N1120A
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:45 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 79):
CX flies the route to the tune of 4X daily and codeshares with AA. I really don't see the need for the route if you ask me.

AA codeshares, but does not share revenue. AA and CX are competitors as much as they are partners and this was a hole in AA's network.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:49 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 18):
Now we have 6 from your list so 2 more to go.

Wouldn't be surprised if AA took over the extra frequencies from QF on MEL-LAX at some point.

Currently QF are running 2 x weekly 74E flights (was 3 x weekly until recently), which is on top of the daily A380 flights. A smaller and more efficient aircraft would likely give them the chance to increase that further, which is where AA may come into the picture (as was the case in SYD).

Its only non-stop competition on North American flights from MEL is UA's MEL-LAX.
 
chrisp390
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:51 am

Any idea when bookings for this service will open?
 
hz747300
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:54 am

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 78):
AA's schedule is not optimal, but there are considerable scheduling constraints in this market. Slots are now very scarce in HKG

I know it's true, but I find this a bit bizarre. It has to be inefficient ATC or something because the airport whilst busy is not overwhelmed. There are periods in the early morning, late morning to mid-afternoon, and late night which are open and can certainly entertain more traffic.

Always nice to have another option especially to the west coast.
Keep on truckin'...
 
N1120A
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:56 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 81):
Wouldn't be surprised if AA took over the extra frequencies from QF on MEL-LAX at some point.

I don't imagine AA would do less than daily.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 81):
Currently QF are running 2 x weekly 74E flights (was 3 x weekly until recently), which is on top of the daily A380 flights. A smaller and more efficient aircraft would likely give them the chance to increase that further, which is where AA may come into the picture (as was the case in SYD).

QF is using extremely efficient aircraft, per seat. QF fills those A380s and 747s to yield, which means they do a better job than a 77W or 789 would do.

That said, I could see an AA 789 on a daily LAX-MEL. The only issue with that would be a product inconsistency, as it wouldn't be 3 class on all flights anymore. Perhaps if they do put F on the A350s and they decide to run those on LAX-MEL, that would make more sense.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:07 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 84):
I don't imagine AA would do less than daily.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 84):
QF is using extremely efficient aircraft, per seat. QF fills those A380s and 747s to yield, which means they do a better job than a 77W or 789 would do.

Fully agree. I was looking at the size vs frequency viewpoint mainly.

The 789 would likely be the ideal size to make it daily, but if QF do enter the MEL-DFW route I guess we will see what move they make.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 84):
That said, I could see an AA 789 on a daily LAX-MEL. The only issue with that would be a product inconsistency, as it wouldn't be 3 class on all flights anymore. Perhaps if they do put F on the A350s and they decide to run those on LAX-MEL, that would make more sense.

The product would be interesting thing to see, but I guess if QF do launch MEL-DFW that may take some pressure off the need for 3 classes on MEL-LAX on the additional flights.

We will see I guess.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 84):
QF fills those A380s and 747s to yield, which means they do a better job than a 77W or 789 would do.

No it doesn't.

In fact, some of the newer twins are showing themselves to have similar per seat costs to the A380 (and far in excess of the 747) in many scenarios, despite their lower seat count-- combined with the significantly lower risk + higher flexibility that they offer.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 84):
The only issue with that would be a product inconsistency, as it wouldn't be 3 class on all flights anymore.

Not sure it would be an issue - QF only sells F on A380s so for the 744 frequencies it's J/W/Y. If AA really needs to sell F fares on LAX-MEL they can sell the codeshare on QF metal.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 86):
In fact, some of the newer twins are showing themselves to have similar per seat costs to the A380 (and far in excess of the 747) in many scenarios, despite their lower seat count-- combined with the significantly lower risk + higher flexibility that they offer.

I think the point was when you can fill a larger plane while maintaining yield, using a smaller plane would be akin to leaving money on the table. A route as long as LAX-MEL doesn't really benefit from increased frequency.
 
Kashmon
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RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:05 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 80):

which means AA fans should not whine when CX wages war on them

CX never sits back and lets another airlines take their position

looking forward to the CX-AA relationship becoming more like CX-QF- the only reason QF sustains its tiny operation is because they got their government to ban CX from expanding....

if CX loses AA codeshare it can just switch to an AA competitor.
 
fun2fly
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Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:53 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 57):
0155 LAX ? I'd be shot-ing red bull at the lounge just to be awake for the boarding to commence
Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 63):
HKG-LAX
CX898 0930-0745
CX884 1255-1110
CX882 1635-1450
AA 2020-1840
CX880 0005-2210-1

LAX-HKG: AA adds one more popular overnight flight
CX883 2355-0545+2
CX881 0055-0645+1
AA 0155-0810+1
CX897 0930-1525+1
CX885 1255-1855+1
Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 78):
AA's schedule is not optimal, but there are considerable scheduling constraints in this market.

Well, AA has a horrible schedule. I've flown the SQ flight which is timed similarly from the mid-west and it's not fun arriving at 6 or 8pm at LAX for a several hour layover. Clearly, this flight is really only for O&D and local connections. Sure supports my theory that another city ex-LAX would have made more sense to me. Sad that AA let CX clean their clock at JFK and LAX to HKG and are only reacting now.
 
sandycx
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:07 pm

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:55 am

Quoting Kashmon (Reply 88):
which means AA fans should not whine when CX wages war on them

CX never sits back and lets another airlines take their position

looking forward to the CX-AA relationship becoming more like CX-QF- the only reason QF sustains its tiny operation is because they got their government to ban CX from expanding....

if CX loses AA codeshare it can just switch to an AA competitor.

Rather than "wage war", Cathay management are far more likely to study the cost and benefits of terminating AA codeshare on LAX-HKG route.

I suspect they will decide to carry on with the codeshare agreement and compete on fares rather than give up AAdvantage members who book CX operated flights on AA code.

[Edited 2016-03-09 03:58:23]
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:56 am

So much for a cosy alliance partnership  

Oh well. Good luck to AA on this one.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7418
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:04 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 79):

Way to go AA, finally going all out to Asia. Hoping something good happens at Haneda, JFK to HND would be great to go along with the Los Angeles flight.

AA had this route on a 772 and gave it up about 2 years ago.

AA did fly the route with the vampire time restrictions of 2200-0700 use of night slots, which is why it failed. The new deal is for day time slots, so AA could have a 1300 departure from JFK arriving into Haneda at around 1600. Timing makes a huge difference.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:22 pm

Quoting sandycx (Reply 90):
Rather than "wage war", Cathay management are far more likely to study the cost and benefits of terminating AA codeshare on LAX-HKG route.

I suspect they will decide to carry on with the codeshare agreement and compete on fares rather than give up AAdvantage members who book CX operated flights on AA code.

  

I tend to agree. Cathay can certainly retaliate or respond aggressively, but I suspect Cathay will read the signalling as clearly as AA is sending it - that these new AA flights are obviously scheduled to compliment the existing Cathay flights, and that together these two airlines now offer an incredibly comprehensive scheduled on this route with flights spaced all throughout the day in both directions.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 91):
So much for a cosy alliance partnership

Meh.

I don't think anyone - including AA and Cathay - have ever seriously represented the relationship between these two airlines as a "cosy alliance." What they are and long have been are both partners and competitors. Indeed, as anyone familiar with the oneworld alliance management structure can attest, Cathay has long been more hands-off and standoffish with regards to deep alliances writ large. That being said, as already described earlier by those with close knowledge of the issue, these two airlines certainly do have an extensive working relationship that provides enormous benefit to both.

We'll see if this flight threatens or compromises that, but again, I personally tend to doubt it.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 92):
AA did fly the route with the vampire time restrictions of 2200-0700 use of night slots, which is why it failed.

The slots were the biggest issue. But the aircraft was also a major contributor. JFK-HND was yet another market - like the China routes - where the low-density, 3-class 777 configuration was suboptimal (to put it nicely).
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:01 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 89):

Well, AA has a horrible schedule. I've flown the SQ flight which is timed similarly from the mid-west and it's not fun arriving at 6 or 8pm at LAX for a several hour layover. Clearly, this flight is really only for O&D and local connections. Sure supports my theory that another city ex-LAX would have made more sense to me. Sad that AA let CX clean their clock at JFK and LAX to HKG and are only reacting now.

I'm looking at the largest regional markets that can feed this flight. Here are the LAX arrival times of the latest flight of the day, using AA/AS/WS metal :

YVR 1719
MEX 1843
SLC 2006
YYC 2131 (WS)
DEN 2143
LAS 2256
SEA 2257
PHX 2359
PDX 0010 (AS)
SEA 0031 (AS)
SFO 0031

Ranging from a comfortable 1:24 transit from SFO/SEA to really really long layovers for further cities.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:02 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 80):
AA codeshares, but does not share revenue. AA and CX are competitors as much as they are partners and this was a hole in AA's network.

I have to imagine that some of the codeshare flights ex-HKG would be beneficial in filling these seats on this AA flight as well. This should be a relatively friendly environment for AA from that perspective. More friendly than UA which didn't have this local partner when they operated the flight.

I just don't see the animosity here. Does CX expect to own this route all by its lonesome with 4x per day. Their product and its timing will speak for itself. AA can differentiate based on timing and I bet the pricing will be competitive in Y. I personally think the AA J seat on the 77Ws isn't too shabby.

tortugamon
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:26 pm

Just out of curiousity, I also looked at westbound connections timed for the 1840 arrival at LAX, using the same list of destinations as reply 94 -

Departures to :
YYC 1705 misconnect
SLC 1850 (below MCT)
YVR 1950 (below MCT)
PDX 2110
DEN 2115
SEA 2115
SFO 2115
PHX 2118
LAS 2239 (there's a 1941 but below MCT)
MEX 2355

Most cities in the 2:30-2:40 layover duration band, which is quite leisurely.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:26 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 77):
DL's previous quarterly, where Anderson details the stats on point of sale relative to other US carriers, as an explanation why they've struggled so much to break the market from their most recent attempts from three different gateways. It's overwhelmingly on the Asian side.

Point of sale relative to other US carriers? How this is relevant?

It has often been said here that DTW, ATL, and SEA are not strong gateways to Hong Kong. The same is not true of LAX. It's possible Anderson was referring only to Delta's gateways.

Whatever the case, I looked at the transcript of the last earnings call. There is no comment to that effect.

Quoting sandycx (Reply 90):
Rather than "wage war", Cathay management are far more likely to study the cost and benefits of terminating AA codeshare on LAX-HKG route.

Cathay is seeing significant weakness in premium demand (J and F class). If Cathay terminates the codeshare which is a source of premiums sales, it will do so at its own peril.

As it is, this will be a JV flight with JAL which more or less means that AA intends to manage its own seat inventory and sales through LAX in such a way that favors the JV and not the Cathay codeshare. Let the games begin.
 
pasu129
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:39 am

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:22 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 71):
I mean the LAX end.

Probably not, a good 6hrs for any MX to be done and thorough clean-up for another TranPac flight back to HKG at 0155.

Seems like the HKG DFW 77W will also receive same treatment before going to GRU.

So seems to me flights are going like this:

LAX 0155 HKG 0810
HKG 1340 DFW 1420
DFW 1920 LHR 1025
LHR 1225 LAX 1550
LAX 1800 LHR 1225
LHR 1400 LAX 1720
LAX 0155 HKG 0810

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure seems like AA is utilizing a good schedule for its 77Ws
Viva Las Vegas
 
wn676
Posts: 1748
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

RE: American Airlines To Start LAX-HKG

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 98):
LHR 1400 LAX 1720
LAX 0155 HKG 0810

With this turn, where does the aircraft operating HKG-LAX turn out to? With an 1840 arrival it's too late to take out LHR. My guess is that the actual routing will reflect what's been posted already: DFW-HKG-LAX-HKG-DFW. Don't think they would touch the LHR-LAX-LHR routings unless they swap times with BA.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.

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