UA Confirms 10-abreast Seating On 772A Fleet

KarelXWB · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:21 pm

United Airlines confirms it will retrofit its 777-200A fleet to 10-abreast seating.

Quote:
United Airlines plans to retrofit 19 of its 74 Boeing 777 widebodies into a high-density domestic configuration that will include 10-abreast seating in economy, the carrier confirmed to Today in the Sky.

United will apply the change to nine of its Boeing 777s that are already used for domestic flights, mostly on flights to and from Hawaii. The other 10 nine Boeing 777s to be retrofitted will be shifted from United’s long-haul international routes, a move that comes as the carrier’s new Boeing 787 “Dreamliners” pick up more of that flying.

A logical move for domestic flights.

Source
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...st-seating-some-its-777s/81519220/

adamblang · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:26 pm

From the linked article, this is interesting:

Quote:
United also will install two mobile device holders – one for tablets and one for phones -- at each economy seat.

I assume it'll be like the new domestic first device holder but would be curious to hear further details.

LY777 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:30 pm

One ustn't forget that these "domestic" flights can be up to 8-hour long.

Will they at least have PTVs?

FWAERJ · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:36 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
Will they at least have PTVs?

No. UA is moving toward 100% streaming entertainment on domestic flights. Don't be surprised if UA ditches DIRECTV on the sCO planes as soon as they can, too.

a380787 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:42 pm

Just to clarify, this is just for Hawaii 777, the 772A retrofit, and rumored 77W. The remaining long-haul 77E will stay 9-abreast, with no announced plans for retrofit.

smi0006 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:55 pm

Do they need 19 planes for Hawaii? If not where else will they fly? The ten that currently do not fly domestically, what will happen to their premium cabin?

UA444 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:56 pm

The 10 already have nose to tail AVOD. They'd be insanely dumb to get rid of it.

Rdh3e · Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 6):
The 10 already have nose to tail AVOD. They'd be insanely dumb to get rid of it.

Are they going to reuse the Y seats? They are short ~100 seats per aircraft if so.

bgm · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:14 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 6):
They'd be insanely dumb to get rid of it.

This is United we're talking about.

Is the 10-abreast refit the cornerstone of the Flyer Friendly™ campaign?

usxguy · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:14 pm

bah... looks like another 777 operator to avoid :/

I've flown in a 10 abreast 777 and you CAN tell the difference....

LAXintl · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:27 pm

Amazingly old news. Reconfiguration was know as far back as February 2015 when Aviation Week wrote about it

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...nsidering-10-abreast-777-retrofits

=

The only reason this is back in the spotlight is because the first aircraft is already in the hangar in China being reconfigured.

parapente · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:27 pm

Why have they fitted some existing domestic 777's 2X5X2? Obviously there is a reason ( everybody else goes 343) but I can't think of the advantage.

I do note ( thankfully) that they recognise the difference between 'continental' and 'intercontinental' by keeping long haul 333.
On a separate thread there has been the same discussion regarding BA.

KarelXWB · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:29 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Amazingly old news. Reconfiguration was know as far back as February 2015 when Aviation Week wrote about it

The article you links says "United Airlines is considering". Now they confirmed the news.

ripcordd · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:33 pm

10x seats suck and I was with my 2 kids on both sides of me the leg room wasn't bad but it sucks

United1 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 11):
Why have they fitted some existing domestic 777's 2X5X2? Obviously there is a reason ( everybody else goes 343) but I can't think of the advantage.

UAs entire 777 fleet was 2-5-2 before the IPTE retrofit....

When UA converted those 3 772s from International to Domestic they pulled the Y and F seats out of a warehouse they were stored in...the other 6 Domestic 772s were always 2-5-2.

Quoting parapente (Reply 11):
I do note ( thankfully) that they recognise the difference between 'continental' and 'intercontinental' by keeping long haul 333

77Ws will be 10 across in Y and more than likely the 77Es will get the same treatment at some point....probalby when UA retrofits then with the new J product.

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 7):
Are they going to reuse the Y seats? They are short ~100 seats per aircraft if so.

The 19 domestic aircraft will get new seats...

LAXintl · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:40 pm

Btw - I would not term these aircraft as simply domestic. Remember half of these aircraft are coming from current 3-class config and fly international everyday and all have the legs to make longhaul flights.
With this new version, they would be ideal for some seasonal Europe markets also -- eg EWR-Spain, Italy etc.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
The article you links says "United Airlines is considering". Now they confirmed the news.

Actually it has been long confirmed as seat counts (28/98/238) and other information such as sub-type naming (77G) and all have been out.

AWST had to couch their article at the time as UA would not publicly confirm it then, but as we've discussed it in the UA fleet thread its been well known change since early last year.

At the end company could not lay quiet any longer as the first aircraft is in the hangar as I type this.

[Edited 2016-03-09 07:52:32]

Rdh3e · Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 11):
Why have they fitted some existing domestic 777's 2X5X2? Obviously there is a reason ( everybody else goes 343) but I can't think of the advantage.

None of the existing aircraft are in 2-5-2 currently. That was the old hawaii configuration. It's superior to 3-3-3 because it has the same number of middle seats but only 1 customer is 2 seats from an aisle as opposed to 2 in 3-3-3. Basically you make the side seats better and make one really undesirable seat in the middle that only has to be filled once you're above 80% LF.

I always found it to be a superior experience, especially when able to secure the 2 outside seats on either side for myself and travelling partner.

The 5 across was also very nice for families of 4 because they could often get an empty seat with them and give the kids a little extra room to move around.

atcsundevil · Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:36 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
No. UA is moving toward 100% streaming entertainment on domestic flights. Don't be surprised if UA ditches DIRECTV on the sCO planes as soon as they can, too.

That probably won't be for quite a while as they're bound by contracts. I believe I read in the UA Fleet forum that it's something like 10 years after the last install unless UA buys out of the contract? The last installs were completed within the last year or two. It also doesn't cost them anything to maintain the equipment, and they earn small cut, so as far as they're concerned it's free money.

Logically speaking, they should keep the AVOD system already in place since the money has already been spent, but the argument of "well, it IS United" makes a very good point. My guess is that they'll remove it to have commonality with the current Hawaii 77A fleet when it's retrofitted with new domestic lie-flat domestic F and 10 abreast Y.

jetblastdubai · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 13):
10x seats suck

Not picking on you specifically, but just noticing a trend on a-net.

Why is it that when UA/AA etc. decide to go to 10-across on some 777s it's the end of the civilized world and people are threatening to never fly them again yet a lot of the same people have a slobbering love affair with EK and their 100% 10-across 777 fleet that fly 12-14 hour segments routinely.

6 hours from LAX to HNL in 10-across is nothing close to LAX-DXB in the same configuration.

hooverman · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:13 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 4):
Just to clarify, this is just for Hawaii 777, the 772A retrofit, and rumored 77W. The remaining long-haul 77E will stay 9-abreast, with no announced plans for retrofit.

It's just a matter of time imo.

a380787 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:15 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18):

Why is it that when UA/AA etc. decide to go to 10-across on some 777s it's the end of the civilized world and people are threatening to never fly them again yet a lot of the same people have a slobbering love affair with EK and their 100% 10-across 777 fleet that fly 12-14 hour segments routinely.

6 hours from LAX to HNL in 10-across is nothing close to LAX-DXB in the same configuration.

The dreadful part is that the UA 77W are also rumored to be in 3-4-3, and likely be placed on 16 hour flights from EWR out to HKG and BOM.

If Y+ stays 3-3-3 there's a bit of hope, but rumor is that even Y+ will go 3-4-3, so the only escape path is all the way to J.

If UA were exclusively keeping the 10-abreast on short domestic routes I'm all for it (CASM talks and FT leeches walk). I'm always curious how the CASM comparison would be between a 772A stuffed at 360 seats versus a brand new A321 with blended winglets ... mmmm....

panam330 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:35 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Actually it has been long confirmed as seat counts (28/98/238) and other information such as sub-type naming (77G) and all have been out.

Actually, it's 28/102/234. At any rate, the more domestic mainline seats the company adds = that many more 50 seaters they can eliminate. I'd rather have a 10Y 777 between hubs if it means my regional flight isn't on a 50 seater anymore, thanks to the trickle-down displacement this will cause.

UA444 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:44 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 17):
point. My guess is that they'll remove it to have commonality with the current Hawaii 77A fleet when it's retrofitted with new domestic lie-flat domestic F and 10 abreast Y.

Those planes should have it retrofitted to have commonality with the other 10.

I don't think these will be strictly domestic planes either, so I think AVOD will end up staying.

rwsea · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:49 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18):
Why is it that when UA/AA etc. decide to go to 10-across on some 777s it's the end of the civilized world and people are threatening to never fly them again yet a lot of the same people have a slobbering love affair with EK and their 100% 10-across 777 fleet that fly 12-14 hour segments routinely.

I personally would never fly in a 10-across configuration with any airline (including EK or UA), but if I was forced to, I'd sure prefer EK over UA because the in flight service more than compensates. Much better meals, better entertainment, free drinks with a better selection, friendlier service... Not to mention, EK has 34" pitch standard whereas UA only has that in premium economy.

Said differently, EK's in flight service somewhat compensates for the narrower seats... UA's in flight service is still bottom of the barrel and the extra crowded seating just adds insult to injury.

Rdh3e · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 23):
Not to mention, EK has 34" pitch standard whereas UA only has that in premium economy.

EK standard pitch is 32" for their 2 class 777s which is the most comparable configuration.

Flighty · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:53 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 20):
so the only escape path is all the way to J.

Or you could fly an airline with a true Economy product.

a380787 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:54 pm

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 24):
Quoting rwsea (Reply 23):
Not to mention, EK has 34" pitch standard whereas UA only has that in premium economy.

EK standard pitch is 32" for their 2 class 777s which is the most comparable configuration.

UA also has Y+ that is free to elites and reasonably priced for everyone else. On EK it's either regular Y or cough up some serious dough to go to J.

Norcal773 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:12 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 5):
Do they need 19 planes for Hawaii? If not where else will they fly? The ten that currently do not fly domestically, what will happen to their premium cabin?

They fly them Trans-USA too from SFO and LAX for example.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 9):
I've flown in a 10 abreast 777 and you CAN tell the difference....

Agreed. I am not a big guy at 5'10 and a buck 80 Ibs and can easily tell reason I avoid the 10-abreast 777s big time.

spacecadet · Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:56 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18):
Why is it that when UA/AA etc. decide to go to 10-across on some 777s it's the end of the civilized world and people are threatening to never fly them again yet a lot of the same people have a slobbering love affair with EK and their 100% 10-across 777 fleet that fly 12-14 hour segments routinely.

I've never flown EK, but speaking about other airlines with similar reputations, service does count for something. I personally would try to avoid *any* 10 abreast airline, but if my choice is between two airlines with 10 abreast 777's, I'm going to pick the one with better service. (Or more likely I'm going to figure out a way to get an upgrade, in which case I'd probably take whichever airline I could do that on.)

I fly ANA a lot and I've been annoyed over the past decade or so at how UA has slowly but surely forced them to downgrade their service to UA's level, as a Star Alliance partner. No more 2 free bags in economy, no more baskets of wine roaming around the economy cabin throughout the flight, cheapening of their formerly amazing mileage club, etc. And I've read that this was specifically at UA's request (I'm not so sure about the wine, but I know it's the case with the luggage allowance and mileage club). So UA's reputation is well-deserved IMO, when their service is so bad that they literally have to ask their alliance partners to downgrade theirs to match.

B737900ER · Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:43 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 28):
I fly ANA a lot and I've been annoyed over the past decade or so at how UA has slowly but surely forced them to downgrade their service to UA's level, as a Star Alliance partner. No more 2 free bags in economy, no more baskets of wine roaming around the economy cabin throughout the flight, cheapening of their formerly amazing mileage club, etc. And I've read that this was specifically at UA's request

Right. Not industry trends or market forces, but UA told them to downgrade, and they just did it, because UA said so.

Rdh3e · Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:48 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 28):
I fly ANA a lot and I've been annoyed over the past decade or so at how UA has slowly but surely forced them to downgrade their service to UA's level,

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 28):
nd I've read that this was specifically at UA's request

Please provide us a link to where you read this. That is not how these things work.

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 29):
Right. Not industry trends or market forces, but UA told them to downgrade, and they just did it, because UA said so.

Exactly

scbriml · Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:58 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18):
Why is it that when UA/AA etc. decide to go to 10-across on some 777s it's the end of the civilized world and people are threatening to never fly them again yet a lot of the same people have a slobbering love affair with EK and their 100% 10-across 777 fleet that fly 12-14 hour segments routinely.

Many people would tell you the service level on EK is much better than US3. The only think in favour of US3 was 9x on a 777 in economy. Now that's going/gone.

lhristebest · Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:28 pm

10 Abreast is not that bad depending who you are sitting next to, however if the person is of a larger size or has no regards for personal space then it sucks big time.

michman · Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:39 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):

No. UA is moving toward 100% streaming entertainment on domestic flights. Don't be surprised if UA ditches DIRECTV on the sCO planes as soon as they can, too.

Or they could stream the DirectTV satellite feed over the Wifi to personal devices. WN already does this with DISH.

[Edited 2016-03-09 15:40:55]

Adipasquale · Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:45 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 31):
The only think in favour of US3 was 9x on a 777 in economy. Now that's going/gone.

Is DL reconfiguring their 777s to 10x? Didn't hear anything about that.

UA444 · Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:53 pm

None of the 55 772ER models are going to be reconfigured in the foreseeable future.

ua900 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
One ustn't forget that these "domestic" flights can be up to 8-hour long.

That's Hawaii'i only, 5 hours will be closer to the mark for most hub-to-hub domestic flights.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 18):
Why is it that when UA/AA etc. decide to go to 10-across on some 777s it's the end of the civilized world and people are threatening to never fly them again yet a lot of the same people have a slobbering love affair with EK and their 100% 10-across 777 fleet that fly 12-14 hour segments routinely.

Exactly. People can pay up and buy a Y+ seat and go back to 9 abreast plus extra legroom if they really mind.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 23):
Not to mention, EK has 34" pitch standard whereas UA only has that in premium economy.

UA's 2 class 777s (and these will be 2 class) all have 35" pitch standard in Y+, and as Rdh3e said EK's standard is 32", not 34".

Quoting scbriml (Reply 31):
Many people would tell you the service level on EK is much better than US3. The only think in favour of US3 was 9x on a 777 in economy. Now that's going/gone.

Really

? How about the wider seats, 18.3" on UA vs. 17" on EK (EK C is only 18" wide btw on the 2 class birds)? How about the ability to purchase Y+ at a marginal cost, something that really comes in handy on a longer flight? I can see how EK is better in F on the A380 while you're showering at FL400, but this is the Y cabin, and UA doesn't have to hide from EK in Y or C.

Quoting lhristebest (Reply 32):
10 Abreast is not that bad depending who you are sitting next to

True for all flights, isn't it? Wink

[Edited 2016-03-09 16:09:28]

DXTraveler · Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:22 am

Sorry if I missed it but where does it say Y+ will remain 9 across?

indcwby · Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:04 am

From what I was told about the 772s that fly to and from Hawaii, most, if not all, of its aircraft don't have any AVOD. Wifi is somewhat shotty and First Class gets personalized iPads with no lie-flat seating. Not even power to keep your personal devices charged. You would hope they would do that to keep the customer happy.

United1 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:15 am

Quoting indcwby (Reply 38):

From what I was told about the 772s that fly to and from Hawaii, most, if not all, of its aircraft don't have any AVOD. Wifi is somewhat shotty and First Class gets personalized iPads with no lie-flat seating. Not even power to keep your personal devices charged. You would hope they would do that to keep the customer happy.

Not exactly. ..

Except for one aircraft all UA 777's have nose to tail power...the last one will get it when the new seats are installed.

All of the Hawaiian aircraft have WiFi and streaming video..anecdotal but I've only had it not work on one flight.

First class is currently recliner seats (the old J class seats) but will be swapped for lie flats...

They do hand out tablets on mainland to Hawaii flights....

815Oceanic · Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:25 am

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 16):

Not quite true. All Hawaiian birds (total of 9, currently) are 2-5-2. All international birds are 3-3-3.

Viscount724 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:19 am

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 16):
It's superior to 3-3-3 because it has the same number of middle seats but only 1 customer is 2 seats from an aisle as opposed to 2 in 3-3-3.

I don't agree that 2-5-2 is superior to 3-3-3. The 2 passengers who are 2 seats from the aisle at 3-3-3 are both window seat passengers who prefer to be in window seats and have specifically chosen them. No passenger would voluntarily choose the seat in the middle of the 5-abreast section.

3-3-3 also gives a higher probability of having an empty seat next to you on flights that aren't full than 2-5-2.

In any case, both are better than 3-4-3.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 23):
Not to mention, EK has 34" pitch standard whereas UA only has that in premium economy.

Seatguru shows 32" pitch for several of the various EK 777 configurations.

tjcab · Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:46 am

Quoting Rdh3e (Reply 16):
None of the existing aircraft are in 2-5-2 currently. That was the old hawaii configuration. It's superior to 3-3-3 because it has the same number of middle seats but only 1 customer is 2 seats from an aisle as opposed to 2 in 3-3-3. Basically you make the side seats better and make one really undesirable seat in the middle that only has to be filled once you're above 80% LF.

could not agree more!

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
One ustn't forget that these "domestic" flights can be up to 8-hour long.

In 2006 I flew from ORD to HNL in 8:50. No PTV, then in those domestic 777's

deltal1011man · Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:10 am

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 34):

Is DL reconfiguring their 777s to 10x? Didn't hear anything about that.

nothing set in stone

but i'd put money on it happening.

Norcal773 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:01 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 28):
I fly ANA a lot and I've been annoyed over the past decade or so at how UA has slowly but surely forced them to downgrade their service to UA's level, as a Star Alliance partner. No more 2 free bags in economy, no more baskets of wine roaming around the economy cabin throughout the flight, cheapening of their formerly amazing mileage club, etc. And I've read that this was specifically at UA's request (I'm not so sure about the wine, but I know it's the case with the luggage allowance and mileage club). So UA's reputation is well-deserved IMO, when their service is so bad that they literally have to ask their alliance partners to downgrade theirs to match.

Wait, what?? Please tell me you're kidding! I actually flew ANA last week SFO-NRT on the 77W and their 787 yesterday NRT-SJC and just about everything you said is not true. I had an allowance of two bags (not that I needed it), had wine any time I wanted some just by asking. The only downside on the 77W was that it was 10-across, although I was seated at the back of the bus where there were only two seats and nobody sitting next to me.

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 29):
Right. Not industry trends or market forces, but UA told them to downgrade, and they just did it, because UA said so.

Could;t have said it any better than B737900ER did!

grbauc · Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:47 am

Quoting indcwby (Reply 38):

Quoting indcwby (Reply 38):

From what I was told about the 772s that fly to and from Hawaii, most, if not all, of its aircraft don't have any AVOD. Wifi is somewhat shotty and First Class gets personalized iPads with no lie-flat seating. Not even power to keep your personal devices charged. You would hope they would do that to keep the customer happy.

And when I've went to book UA to The Philippines there prices on these planes Doing the Guam and HI lax rout with the awful seating and no entertainment were priced in the market of the Philippines airlines crappy 747 range. Now that Philippines Airlines has new 777 I wonder what the fares will be. I didn't like either of those options on my last Philippines trip and went with Korean 380 ride.

Norcal773 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:57 am

Quoting grbauc (Reply 45):
And when I've went to book UA to The Philippines there prices on these planes Doing the Guam and HI lax rout with the awful seating and no entertainment were priced in the market of the Philippines airlines crappy 747 range. Now that Philippines Airlines has new 777 I wonder what the fares will be. I didn't like either of those options on my last Philippines trip and went with Korean 380 ride.

I was just looking for a flight to MNL on the UA website and they have some pretty good options now compared to the days they always routed you through HNL and Guam. I priced an SFO-HKG-MNL (with the last sector operated by CX), MNL-HND (on NH 788) HND-SFO (UA 789) for a little over $600. You can also fly NH all the way and back for $100 as UA's codeshare (booked on UA site).

rta · Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:21 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
No. UA is moving toward 100% streaming entertainment on domestic flights. Don't be surprised if UA ditches DIRECTV on the sCO planes as soon as they can, too.

Even though DL and AA are working to get PTVs on many of their planes? I guess we'll see which strategy works out better in a couple of years.

Also, I'm fine with UA not putting PTVs on the dedicated hub to hub 777s. But for the Hawaiian fleet, would it really kill them? "Domestic" or not, those flights are fairly long if you start from a non West Coast hub.

DXTraveler · Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:52 pm

"I fly ANA a lot and I've been annoyed over the past decade or so at how UA has slowly but surely forced them to downgrade their service to UA's level, as a Star Alliance partner. No more 2 free bags in economy, no more baskets of wine roaming around the economy cabin throughout the flight, cheapening of their formerly amazing mileage club, etc. And I've read that this was specifically at UA's request"

So United management told ANA management they need to make their product suck and they said OK, sounds good to us? Or do they just single out the passengers flying on UA code share tickets?

Sometimes it's good to use that thing that sits on top of your shoulders.

a380787 · Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:17 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 28):
cheapening of their formerly amazing mileage club

Translation for the laymen terms : "ANA FF used to have tons of loopholes and arbitrage opportunities for flyertalk gamers like me, and I'm pissed they wised up and decided to end the merry go-around"

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