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william
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Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:47 pm

It was going up against the 707 and DC-8, but why did it not take off sales wise? Fuel hog?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEKN8sFjHdk
 
bigb
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:57 pm

It didn't sell well because it was introduce during a time where airlines focus shifted from wanting speed with their airliners towards fuel efficiency.
 
stburke
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:27 pm

Good previous discussion: Why Did The The Convair 880/990 Fail (by doulasc Feb 21 2015 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=6322344&searchid=6327513&s=convair#ID6327513

1) Late-ish to the market
2) Not a large market for smaller jets
3) Fuel hog given the number of seats

I believe the 880/990 project was the largest loss taken by a US corporation that didn't send it into bankruptcy.
 
timz
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:17 pm

Any reason to think the GE engine had higher specific fuel consumption than the JT3C?
 
nikeherc
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:32 pm

Late to market and 5 across cross section in coach. It's selling point was speed, which it didn't deliver until the 990.
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northstardc4m
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:10 pm

Some more reasons it lost sales:

- Needed too much concrete compared to L188/Viscount (this was one reason Eastern didn't buy it).

- The speed thing was at the huge expense of range. At max mach the 880 couldn't even do ORD-LAX with a full passenger load. Even the 990A had issues making it reliably at full speed, compared to the 720B could do JFK-LAX comfortably.But at slower speeds where it could easily make it, then there was no advantage over the 707/720/DC8/etc, sometimes they were even faster.

- VERY complex systems... some 880Ms had lights on the FE panel for gear lock pins and tug attached!

- 720 matched or bettered performance (even speed was close) with commonality to 707 and lower price/costs

- When the 727 came along the Convair 880/990 was basically toast, even without the fuel crisis.
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global1
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:49 pm

Hard to find a more beautiful frame than the 880 in the Delta Livery
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:03 am

There are many other older threads on this subject.

There was just no market for a 5-abreast 4-engine jet. Remember that the 707 was originally designed with a 5-abreast fuselage but when Douglas announced the DC-8 with a wider 6-abreast fuselage, Boeing was forced to redesign the 707 to accommodate 6-abreast seating to avoid losing customers. Had Boeing not done so the 707 probably would have turned into another financial disaster like the 880/990.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:28 am

Could at least the 990 do a TCON or TATL at less than max speed?
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mayor
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:37 am

Quoting bigb (Reply 1):

It didn't sell well because it was introduce during a time where airlines focus shifted from wanting speed with their airliners towards fuel efficiency.

Sorry, I don't buy that. DL, for example took delivery in the early 60s, right around the time the 707 and DC-8 were delivered. The airlines didn't worry about fuel consumption until the fuel crisis in '73.

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 4):
It's selling point was speed, which it didn't deliver until the 990.

And yet it was the 880 and not the 990 that set the transcontinental speed records, which were still there until the Concorde came along.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:37 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 8):
Could at least the 990 do a TCON or TATL at less than max speed?

The 990 barely had US transcon range. I don't think AA ever used their 990s on coast-to-coast routes. I think they found them so uneconomic where they were operated that they disposed of them after no more than 7 years service, some after only 4 or 5 years.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:01 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
The 990 barely had US transcon range. I don't think AA ever used their 990s on coast-to-coast routes. I think they found them so uneconomic where they were operated that they disposed of them after no more than 7 years service, some after only 4 or 5 years.

I believe they never really reached their design max speed which was supposed to be AA's selling point, and even at the higher cruise speed the time gain was marginal relative to the significant increase in fuel consumption.
 
BostonBeau
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:13 pm

TWA used to use 880's BOS-DEN. Very attractive plane.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:24 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 8):
Could at least the 990 do a TCON or TATL at less than max speed?

By reducing cruise speed, Modern Air could fly them PHL-VIE nonstop. I'm not sure about the return (less favorable winds), but still.

American had an eastbound 990 transcon SFO-JFK, a redeye I believe, and only eastbound. There was also PHX-JFK. This is just based on what was seen in schedules. If anyone has direct experience, it would be great to hear about.

The very high mach cruise speeds the 990 signed up for were only attainable by cruising at 21,000 feet. The fuel guzzling at that altitude and speed was ridiculous.
 
SmokinL1011
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:25 pm

Well, after watching the promo film by Delta it's clear that the failure to sell wasn't because of its 'whisper quiet' cabin. LOL

Ahhhhh, marketing.   
 
nikeherc
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:28 pm

The 990 had the "speed pods" or whatever they called them added to the trailing edges to improve performance at speed. They also provided additional fuel storage. With much work, the 880 did deliver high speed, but there were better options for medium range medium size jets very quickly.
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:34 pm

Quoting SmokinL1011 (Reply 14):
Well, after watching the promo film by Delta it's clear that the failure to sell wasn't because of its 'whisper quiet' cabin. LOL

Ahhhhh, marketing.

I guess that compared to propliners, the cabin must have been a lot more quiet. It's outside people that must have suffered from these screaming and smoking engines.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:43 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 16):

I guess that compared to propliners, the cabin must have been a lot more quiet. It's outside people that must have suffered from these screaming and smoking engines.




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[Edited 2016-03-10 10:07:53]
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timz
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 9):
yet it was the 880 and not the 990 that set the transcontinental speed records

An 880 set a record San Diego to Miami, presumably on a delivery flight-- any other transcon records?
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 16):
I guess that compared to propliners, the cabin must have been a lot more quiet. It's outside people that must have suffered from these screaming and smoking engines.

Delta compared it to like sitting in your living room

http://www.deltamuseum.org/docs/site...air_880_brochure_1960.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I had three flights on Delta 880's and loved every one of them.

[Edited 2016-03-10 10:25:08]
 
bohica
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:47 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):

It was easy to spot an 880. Just follow the smoke trail.


This might be urban legend but the employees at Convair joked that it was called the 880 because the plane went through 880 design changes, many of them at the request of TWA.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:59 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
There was just no market for a 5-abreast 4-engine jet. Remember that the 707 was originally designed with a 5-abreast fuselage but when Douglas announced the DC-8 with a wider 6-abreast fuselage, Boeing was forced to redesign the 707 to accommodate 6-abreast seating to avoid losing customers. Had Boeing not done so the 707 probably would have turned into another financial disaster like the 880/990.

Good point Viscount724. PA, UA and other airlines had been pushing Boeing to increase the width of the 707-120 (which was based on the Dash 80 prototype, which itself was based on the KC-135) to allow for 6 abreast seating. Boeing initially wouldn't budge, wanting to keep the original cabin width so they would have commonality in tooling/production with the KC-135 program (after all, it had worked with the B-377/KC-97 program).

When PA made their big jet purchase announcement in October 1955, Boeing was shocked to find out that PA had ordered 25 DC-8s and only 20 707s - they were clearly sending a message to Boeing that they weren't happy with the existing cabin width. PA's thinking at the time was that they'd be 'first to market' with the 707-120, which was already in flight testing but clearly didn't have the legs to fly nonstop on many of their international routes. The DC-8 was anywhere from 12-18 months behind the 707 however once they did come on line the 707-120s would be redeployed to their medium haul routes.

In the meantime, UA had been talking seriously with Convair about a significant order for the 880 to satisfy their medium range jet requirement. UA had walked away from the 707-120 after Boeing's refusal to widen the cabin. After PA had finally gotten Boeing's attention with their DC-8 order, they relented and widened the 707-120 cabin to allow for 6 abreast seating.

Boeing then pitched the scaled down 707-020 variant of the 707 design to UA (and many other airlines) at a very attractive 'bargain basement' price when compared to the 880. The fact that Convair couldn't come anywhere close to Boeing's price together with the ability of the 720 to have an extra seat per row really was what doomed the 880. The 707-020 became the 720 and UA went on to operate a fleet of 29. Other early 707 operators quickly followed with their own 720 orders since they'd have commonality with their bigger brother. The 880 also never was retrofitted with turbofan engines which limited their use with second tier operators once TWA and Delta put their fleets out to pasture in the early 70's.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:26 pm

Quoting EyeSky (Reply 21):
Boeing then pitched the scaled down 707-020 variant of the 707 design to UA (and many other airlines) at a very attractive 'bargain basement' price when compared to the 880. The fact that Convair couldn't come anywhere close to Boeing's price together with the ability of the 720 to have an extra seat per row really was what doomed the 880. The 707-020 became the 720 and UA went on to operate a fleet of 29. Other early 707 operators quickly followed with their own 720 orders since they'd have commonality with their bigger brother. The 880 also never was retrofitted with turbofan engines which limited their use with second tier operators once TWA and Delta put their fleets out to pasture in the early 70's.

Isn't it funny then that the 2 biggest US 720 orders (UA and EA) flew DC-8s, while the 2 biggest 707 domestic operators (AA and TW) bought Convairs!

Really very few airlines that bought "big" fleets of 720s and 707s new. Lufthansa, Northwest and American are about the only 3 majors i can think of that did order both in quantity, and American as said above already had lots of CV990s as well.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:03 pm

Quoting EyeSky (Reply 21):
The 707-020 became the 720 and UA went on to operate a fleet of 29.

As a trivia question, do you know why the 707-020 was renamed the 720?

[Edited 2016-03-10 15:04:12]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:52 am

Quoting northstardc4m (Reply 22):
Really very few airlines that bought "big" fleets of 720s and 707s new. Lufthansa, Northwest and American are about the only 3 majors i can think of that did order both in quantity, and American as said above already had lots of CV990s as well.

LH's 720B fleet was fairly small, only 8, and they only operated them for 3 to 5 years before selling the 6 survivors to Pan Am. Two of LH's 720Bs crashed on training flights killing the crews, one that apparently broke up while performing an unauthorized barrel roll. Pan Am had previously acquired 3 720Bs from AA. They worked well on Pan Am's Latin America and Caribbean routes due to their excellent hot-and-high performance.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Quoting EyeSky (Reply 21):
The 707-020 became the 720 and UA went on to operate a fleet of 29.

As a trivia question, do you know why the 707-020 was renamed the 720?

If not mistaken, UA's president had previously said UA wouldn't be buying any 707s, and to avoid losing face by changing his mind, Boeing changed the designation from 707-020 to 720.

AA used the 707 terminology for their 720s. As a sidenote, AA was also the only 720 operator that converted their original rather under-powered 720s to 720Bs by replacing the JT3C turbojets with far more powerful JT3D turbofans, which made the 720B the hotrod of that period. I remember some very impressive 720B takeoffs while the standard 720 was quite sluggish. The change was roughly like adding a 5th engine to the standard 720. It also significantly increased the range due the JT3D's lower fuel consumption. There was very little demand for UA's and Eastern's standard 720s when they were retired, unlike the 720Bs.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:46 am

Quoting stburke (Reply 2):

As mentioned, like the turboprop Electra it came too late to the dance. Had it beat the 707 and DC 8 even by 2 to 5 years history could have been a whole different enchilada. Also the 727 and DC 9 were right around the corner. And the 4 holer Convair was a gas hog.
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AR385
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:44 am

1) Even for it´s time it was a gas guzzler
2) Too little capacity
3) Limited in range

The higher cruising speeds at which it flew were its only advantage but due to the high fuel consumption and limited range it was a wash.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:40 am

AA's long-time (1934-1968 and 1973-74) CEO, C.R. Smith, reportedly once said in an interview that his only bad equipment decisions were the Convair 990 and BAC 1-11.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:40 am

Quoting bohica (Reply 20):
It was easy to spot an 880. Just follow the smoke trail.

When the Volkswagen diesel emissions scandal became public last year, I saw this picture on Facebook, with the caption "This airplane emits fewer pollutants than a Volkswagen". A harsh statement, but still very funny  
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:54 am

Quoting bohica (Reply 20):
It was easy to spot an 880. Just follow the smoke trail.

Yep.

http://youtu.be/isP1LVVZ6nU?t=5m37s

http://youtu.be/JTxi8V99614
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:01 pm

Quoting SmokinL1011 (Reply 14):
Well, after watching the promo film by Delta it's clear that the failure to sell wasn't because of its 'whisper quiet' cabin. LOL

The Convair 880/990 soundproofing was actually very good - seemingly a step ahead of the 707/DC8.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
I remember some very impressive 720B takeoffs while the standard 720 was quite sluggish.

In addition to EA and UA, BN had a handful of straight-turbo 720s as well. They were notoriously under-powered and the joke within BN cockpit crews was : "wouldn't taxi over a wet cigarette butt". Ops out of MEX were described as "hair raising". EA's 720s could not handle HOU-NYC nonstop, which seems like a major restriction. Just speculating, but I bet the 880 could have done it.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):
AA's long-time (1934-1968 and 1973-74) CEO, C.R. Smith, reportedly once said in an interview that his only bad equipment decisions were the Convair 990 and BAC 1-11.

Yeah, the 990 never lived up to its speed guarantees and was maintenance intensive: "always something wrong with them" was the way one AA old-timer put it. The CJ-805 aft fan was really tetchy and would overheat if an sudden increase in power was applied during taxi. The AA 990s were doomed once the 727-200s came along.

AA's 111 '400s' were delivered a year late. Had they arrived as planned in spring 1965, they would have had a leg up on the DC9s (DL started in November 1965).
 
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mayor
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:46 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 30):
Just speculating, but I bet the 880 could have done it.

True.....that was a NYC-IAH was as normal route for DL's 880s as well as ATL-IAH, ORD-STL and ORD-IAH.......I'm sure there were others.
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superjeff
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:08 pm

I flew (as a passenger, not a pilot) 880's on Delta and TWA, as well as 990's on American - Enjoyed all of my flights on those birds, and enjoyed the 3-2 economy seating; my understanding was that the range issue (inability to do transcons reliably nonstop in both directions) was a major factor in the plane's not being successful. Originally, both American and Delta had intended to sell speed for more than the slower 707's and DC8's, with Delta's initial Convair 880's being configured in all First Class, at a time where coach was really catching on (original 707's and DC8's on AA, BN, DL, and UA, at least, were pretty much 50% First and 50% coach. But they soon found out that people wouldn't pay 10% more than First Class to save 20 minutes on a transcon.
 
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:17 pm

Quoting northstardc4m (Reply 22):
Isn't it funny then that the 2 biggest US 720 orders (UA and EA) flew DC-8s, while the 2 biggest 707 domestic operators (AA and TW) bought Convairs!

AA and TW also flew B720s.

Quoting EyeSky (Reply 21):
Boeing then pitched the scaled down 707-020 variant of the 707 design to UA (and many other airlines) at a very attractive 'bargain basement' price when compared to the 880. The fact that Convair couldn't come anywhere close to Boeing's price

Boeing is currently using this ploy against the CSeries. It worked in the 1960s, it will work now.
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ozark1
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:05 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
AA used the 707 terminology for their 720s. As a sidenote, AA was also the only 720 operator that converted their original rather under-powered 720s to 720Bs by replacing the JT3C turbojets with far more powerful JT3D turbofans, which made the 720B the hotrod of that period

I thought that all 720 operators except EA switched over to the turbofans and the 720B designation?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:09 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 34):
I thought that all 720 operators except EA switched over to the turbofans and the 720B designation?

Not United.
 
timz
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:09 pm

Were AA's 720s the only ones converted to turbofan?
 
747400sp
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:12 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 32):
Delta and TWA

You mean TWA and Delta, no body should ever go in front of Pan Am or TWA.  
 
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mayor
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:43 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 37):
You mean TWA and Delta, no body should ever go in front of Pan Am or TWA.

Yeah, and where are THEY, now?  
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WA707atMSP
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:56 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 37):
Quoting superjeff (Reply 32):
Delta and TWA

You mean TWA and Delta, no body should ever go in front of Pan Am or TWA.  

Delta began 880 service before TWA, so their name should be first.
 
MEA-707
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:09 am

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 34):
I thought that all 720 operators except EA switched over to the turbofans and the 720B designation?

No, only American converted their 720s. All other non fans, 29 for United, 3 for Aer Lingus, 6 for Braniff, 15 for Eastern, 2 for Pacific Northern, remained pure jets all their life.
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:10 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 9):
Sorry, I don't buy that. DL, for example took delivery in the early 60s, right around the time the 707 and DC-8 were delivered. The airlines didn't worry about fuel consumption until the fuel crisis in '73.

Except that there were news reports back then about it not meeting fuel burn or speed specs. So I would take that as the Airlines did care about fuel burn as well.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:21 am

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 19):
Delta compared it to like sitting in your living room

http://www.deltamuseum.org/docs/site...air_880_brochure_1960.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I had three flights on Delta 880's and loved every one of them.

All the seating in that brochure is 4 across not 5, was this standard for DL?
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CF-CPI
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:14 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 42):
All the seating in that brochure is 4 across not 5, was this standard for DL?

The original plan was all-F (4-across) at both Delta and TWA. Shortly before service entry, DL decided to add a small coach cabin. One assumes that the publicity materials had been prepared prior to this change.

Once DL went two-class, TW followed.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:32 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 41):
Except that there were news reports back then about it not meeting fuel burn or speed specs. So I would take that as the Airlines did care about fuel burn as well.

Today, airlines note fuel burn as it is a very large function of cost. When these aircraft were built, fuel burn was noted, but more because with higher fuel burns the aircraft could not perform the function intended. The Convair jets' main selling feature was its speed and when the advertised speed was flown, the fuel burns would not allow the required range.

Ironically, the B720 was able to cruise faster. Not because of advanced aerodynamics, but because it had the fuel capacity to cruise faster and still maintain its desired medium range.
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mayor
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 42):
All the seating in that brochure is 4 across not 5, was this standard for DL?

It originally had seating for 84 pax, all coach and as far as I know, operated for a short time in this configuration.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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mayor
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RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:38 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 18):

An 880 set a record San Diego to Miami, presumably on a delivery flight-- any other transcon records?

From the Delta Flight Museum site:

"On February 11, 1962, Delta broke its own official speed record from Chicago to Miami, with a Convair 880, which reached a top speed of 715 miles an hour during the 1,258-mile flight, which took 1 hour, 50 minutes and 55 seconds."
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
dtw9
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:41 pm

An interesting read on Delta's 880's published by Delta


http://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8YFg...HMnpoTngyVkU/edit?pref=2&pli=1
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:21 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 45):

It originally had seating for 84 pax, all coach and as far as I know, operated for a short time in this configuration.

My mistake........it was configured 12/72........12 seats in a club type configuration and 72 seats in a first class configuration, 4 across.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5574
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Why Did The Convair CV880 Not Sell Well?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:11 pm

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 19):
Delta compared it to like sitting in your living room

http://www.deltamuseum.org/docs/site...rsn=2

I love the description of the engines:
"The sleek, white power pods of the 880 reach forward under the wings to gulp in air at better than 600mph. Compressed by whirling turbines and joined by a gushing stream of fuel, the resulting combustion rushes out with a reactive force of 11,200 lbs. per engine."

V/F
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