Ammad
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Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:58 am

The flight attendant had casually relayed to a coworker that she did not appreciate being stared at - she did not seem rattled or scared - just smug," said Sharon Kessler, who was on board the flight.

A video of the incident was posted on YouTube. "It was a terrible moment - honestly - these women sat quietly, watched movies - it felt like overkill from this flight attendant," Ms Kessler wrote on her Facebook page.

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/musli...r-1285389?pfrom=home-lateststories

Isn't it too much. Any thoughts?
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:03 am

Thoughts? Yes. I believe the flight attendant's version of the story. This is getting ridiculus. Not everything is discrimination.

Some random passenger only seeing one side of the story, and then presenting a film clip only showing them being escorted off the aircraft is very typical. You never see what actually happened beforehand.
 
bennett123
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:15 am

Well there are two issues here.

1. Merely looking at a FA is enough.

2. Taking pictures of in flight procedures. Firstly, is this prohibited. Secondly, was she warned, and finally, is there any evidence.
 
barney captain
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:33 am

"Thrown out of a plane"?

Honestly Mods, can we amend the title to something more realistic?

They made it to their destination, and were escorted off by the authorities. And since there was no further "drama" reported, they were probably questioned and released.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
nws2002
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:30 am

One of those situations where I doubt we have the full story and I doubt we ever will.
 
tonystan
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:33 pm

The travelling public are their own worst enemies in situations like this!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
trnswrld
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:58 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 3):
"Thrown out of a plane"?

Honestly Mods, can we amend the title to something more realistic?

I agree! I cant stand every time a forum member makes a post regarding someone being removed from an aircraft its always "thrown out of airplane" or "kicked off". So annoying. No one is ever literally thrown out of an airplane or actually kicked with feet. I think maybe some users here should work for the media.
 
threeifbyair
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:04 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
1. Merely looking at a FA is enough.

Enough for what? I look at FAs on every flight (safety demo, exit row briefing, asking for a beverage, etc.). Surely it would be more suspicious if someone was staring blankly the entire flight and not acknowledging FAs.

Moreover, I've witnessed passengers loudly arguing with FAs and blatantly disobeying safety commands (walking around while taxiing, drinking stashes of personal alcohol onboard after being caught, not securing bags before landing after being warned 3x) and not once has the police met the plane.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
2. Taking pictures of in flight procedures. Firstly, is this prohibited. Secondly, was she warned, and finally, is there any evidence.

Prohibited why? Can't film the top-secret safety demo? There are videos on YouTube! I've seen in-flight videos from AS and WN recently.

I'm not aware of any in-flight procedure that would be remotely "secret." We all have eyes anyways, so I can't figure how filming would be worse than having 180 pairs of eyeballs watching.

I wonder how many "non-Muslim" / "non-Muslim looking" people have been escorted off planes for similar reasons...
 
tonystan
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:06 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 6):
I think maybe some users here should work for the media.

Maybe they do. Most media outlets today seem to go out of their way to make the headlines as sensationalist as they can even if it starts to obscure the facts of the story. It's sad because it's now what Joe Public expects.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
N415XJ
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:08 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 3):

Honestly Mods, can we amend the title to something more realistic?

"Thrown out/kicked out" is, as I understand it, a colloquial expression conveying that someone was removed from an area against their will. It could be done violently or dramatically, but I've used the phrase many times personally when that wasn't the case. I see not problems with the title.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
2. Taking pictures of in flight procedures. Firstly, is this prohibited

Source? Specifically, the line of FAA legal code or JetBlue company procedure stating that this is the case? Even if she was filming, the flight attendant didn't have to act like a child. She could have asked politely for the woman to stop, and only escalated the situation if she refused. Still, the FA should not take issue with being filmed in what is essentially a public place. Is it a little creepy? Maybe, but as long as safety is not compromised, I don't know what the problem is.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 7):


I wonder how many "non-Muslim" / "non-Muslim looking" people have been escorted off planes for similar reasons...

To be fair, I think I recall a story of an aviation enthusiast either being chewed out by the crew or being taken off the plane for filming the safety demo. I can't find it, though.

Finally, seeing veiled women is very uncommon in the US, and from my experience they at the very least receive stares from others because they look very out of place, and there is still a definite stigma against Islam here. Not saying this was racially/religiously motivated, but it's possible.
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:19 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 9):
"Thrown out/kicked out" is, as I understand it, a colloquial expression conveying that someone was removed from an area against their will.

Yes but in this specific instance it is made to sound as though a person was actually thrown out of an airplane, perhaps in flight. I can see it being confusing at first glance. I read it as "got booted from a flight" which actually didn't happen either. She was detained and questioned after landing.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:19 pm

Quote:
In a statement, JetBlue said the flight attendant had been under the impression one of the women had been filming in-flight procedures.

"If a crew member believes a customer may be filming safety procedures, the crew member may report it for further review. In this instance, our crewmembers acted in accordance with security procedures. We appreciate our customers' patience and cooperation, and apologise for the inconvenience," the airline said.

So we either have a case where an aviation sector worker genuinely feels safety is being compromised and is acting accordingly, or we have a case where an aviation worker is using a rule intended to improve security simply to harass someone, simply because they can. I wonder if we'll ever know what happened in this case.
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richierich
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 10):
Yes but in this specific instance it is made to sound as though a person was actually thrown out of an airplane, perhaps in flight.

Really? Does somebody actually think that is what happened?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
I wonder if we'll ever know what happened in this case.

I agree.
None shall pass!!!!
 
art
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
So we either have a case where an aviation sector worker genuinely feels safety is being compromised and is acting accordingly,

'In a statement, JetBlue said the flight attendant had been under the impression one of the women had been filming in-flight procedures.' - from the OP's link.

What is the security risk of someone using a camera on a plane to film the inside of the plane? I regularly see what is inside planes. How does it suddenly compromise security if I take photographs inside the cabin?
 
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Revelation
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:55 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 7):
I'm not aware of any in-flight procedure that would be remotely "secret."

The only ones I think would remotely qualify is cockpit entry procedures. Some discomfort was mentioned when we here were discussing how the crazy Germanwings FO managed to keep the CA out of the cockpit whilst he dove the plane into the mountains. However I agree, banning the filming due to security issues seems to me to be a big reach, for the reasons you give, namely it's all happening in plain sight anyways. It's far more likely to be about airlines trying to ban filming to avoid law suits when their employees do something actionable. It's also why said employees might get upset when they're being filmed.
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art
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:02 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
It's far more likely to be about airlines trying to ban filming to avoid law suits when their employees do something actionable.

I find that a great deal more plausible than the notion that inside cabin photographs constitute a security risk. Wonder what action was taken against the lady who videoed the pax being escorted off the plane. Did she get interviewed by the authorities, too?
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 9):
Still, the FA should not take issue with being filmed in what is essentially a public place. Is it a little creepy? Maybe, but as long as safety is not compromised, I don't know what the problem is.

The issue here is privacy.....would I be allowed to casually film workers in an office building?
And in some counties broadcasting a person's image without their express permission is against the law.
 
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:05 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 19):
The issue here is privacy.....would I be allowed to casually film workers in an office building?

In an office building (presumably one with some form of secure accesss) you have an expectation of privacy.

If you're serving the public, you don't.

At least that's my understanding.
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Carfield
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:40 pm

This is unacceptable, and IMHO, is a case of racial and religious discrimination.

There are so many ways that the F/As could have stepped in, but they chose not to do anything. If they were such a danger, they could have landed somewhere.

it actually reminded me of a similar incident happening in JetBlue. I flew from JFK to Syracuse on JetBlue on a fly-fi A320 last year, and was sitting in an Even More Legroom seat/Exit Row, and on those short flights, those EML seats were always empty or filled with commuting F/As. My neighbor at 11C was an off duty F/A - still wearing her uniform.

I was taking my usual notes and checking on our flight status on flightradar24 app. The flight was so short that I watched a bit of TV. I was even posting pictures on my instragram during the flight. On final approach, we got some nice downtown views so I took a few pictures using my iphone. My neighbor then tried to say something and I just said, "it was a nice day right!" Then when I left the plane, the pilot pulled me aside in the jet bridge and asked what I was doing and why were I taking pictures of the scenery. I told him that I was just an enthusiast and saw a fare sale and bought a RT ticket to Syracuse. Just to give him head up, I told him that I was going to come back on the same flight. The pilot said, "okay," but on the return flight, the F/A treated me like enemies. They did not respond to either my "thank you" or just stared at me. After the flight, I actually made a big fuss with jetBlue customer service. They tried to defend their crews' action, but I told them the nosy off-duty F/A could have asked me directly... instead of going behind my back... I felt humiliated, and for the next 6 months, I did not book one single JetBlue flight. I will also make sure that I will do no turnaround on the same airline anymore, especially jetBlue, except inaugural flights. In some way, it is jetBlue's loss, but I can't trust their F/As.

So I am really not surprised at jetBlue's F/As actions. I am an Asian American, so I guess if I am dark skinned, I will be arrested on arrival.

jetBlue continues to have this "racial" issue, which is so opposite from their "humanity" message. Despite being a JetBlue fan, JetBlue definitely needs to train their crews about diversity.

Of course there are always two sides to the stories, but in this case, I am on the passengers' side, especially the news come from neighbors, not from the F/As or the victims themselves.

Carfield
 
jacobin777
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:21 pm

Quoting Carfield (Reply 21):
So I am really not surprised at jetBlue's F/As actions. I am an Asian American, so I guess if I am dark skinned, I will be arrested on arrival.

I've only flown on B6 once (just a few weeks ago on my return flight seeing Iron Maiden @ LAS    ). Nothing special. Never had a hard time.

Really, the past 10-15 years, I've only had a problem on a plane once where the F/A asked me why I have so many plane pictures on my laptop (I was going through them to change a background wallpaper). I told her I'm an aviation enthusiast. She didn't believe me asked me the same question again. I told her if she's not happy with my answer she can have the purser come up and ask me the same question. I think she got the message. She didn't bother me again.   ..
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WearyDrover
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:47 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
Firstly, is this prohibited

I am not aware of any regulation that specifically prohibits the filming of "inflight procedures", whatever they may be. It is possible that individual airlines have company policies covering such things.

I know that the Qantas safety card states that the use of video and still cameras is permitted at any time. Nothing on JetBlue's web page covering the use of PEDs makes any specific mention of not using a camera. Given that there have been several trip reports on Anet that cover JetBlue and none has reported anyone being escorted off the plane, there does not seem to be a general proscription on filming inflight.
http://help.jetblue.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN....exe?New,Kb=askBlue,case=obj(2218)

I can appreciate that passengers should pay attention to the safety demonstration but has anyone ever been escorted off a flight for reading a book instead? Was she actually escorted off for that reason? If so, why not before the flight departed rather than on arrival? If she were filming crew without their consent and had been asked to desist the issue would be one of not following directions. .
A man may learn wisdom even from a foe - Aristophanes
 
N415XJ
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:08 am

Quoting Carfield (Reply 21):
asked what I was doing and why were I taking pictures of the scenery

I hope you told him "Photography isn't prohibited. I can take pictures of whatever I damn well please". Did this guy seriously ask why you were taking pictures of the scenery?? That's ridiculous. I'm really curious as to how the whole thing played out.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:43 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 1):
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):

   to both statements.

Today many of these people want a cheap thrill, try to scam freebies off the airline and or get their own reality show. In a culture where political correctness and the Kardashians are embracedand worshipped this is what you get.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
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jeffh747
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:56 am

If I am correct; on JetBlue's safety cards, they have an explicit warrning against the photography of crew and/or aircraft equipment and procedures. There's something along those lines in their Electronic Device policy. While I am not aware of the exact circumstances that occurred on this flight, I know that quite a few airlines have policies prohibiting use of photography inflight including American, who's policy is listed in American Way.

Just food for thought...
Jeff
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RamblinMan
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting richierich (Reply 12):
Really? Does somebody actually think that is what happened?

Doubtful, but why be unnecessarily confusing? Since the OP's profile says he is from Pakistan I will chalk it up to English perhaps not being his first language. If an American had started this thread I would call it an attempt to create clickbait.

It ought to be changed, but if the mods don't want to, I really don't care at this point.
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:09 am

Filming or photographing any member flight crew, without permission is discourteous and just plain wrong. I have been taking photographs and video from aircraft for over twenty years- I ALWAYS keep my camera pointed out the window. If I were an F/A and noticed I was being filmed, I be quite angry. I take issue with these YouTubers who film boarding, and in the process, other passengers and the flight crew. Why would one film the boarding of pax? People filming others does warrant some suspicion. In my tenure as a photographer / videographer, I've never experienced any major problems. I've had curious questions but I handle those politely.
 
N415XJ
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:14 am

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 25):
If I were an F/A and noticed I was being filmed, I be quite angry.

Out of curiosity, why? Are you a secret agent? Is there someone who could harm you using video of you being in a public area? I never understood people's aversion to being filmed. How does it hurt you in any way shape or form? "Privacy" doesn't count as an argument here. If you want privacy stay at home. You are absolutely not entitled to privacy where you have no reasonable expectation for it, i.e a plane with 150+ other people on it.

EDIT: to be clear that although the ACLU supports the right to film in public (http://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/photographers-what-do-if-you-are-stopped-or-detained-taking-photographs?redirect=free-speech/know-your-rights-photographers) I'm asking why you feel a personal aversion to being filmed in public.

[Edited 2016-03-10 20:19:31]
 
WearyDrover
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:16 am

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 25):
Why would one film the boarding of pax? People filming others does warrant some suspicion.

Surely it depends on how the filming is done. A video clip or still photo that does not identify passengers is hardly an invasion of privacy. I have taken photos of the cabin interior with passengers on board but often do so from the rear so that passengers can not be identified. In other shots the faces are usually obscured. I agree that it is polite to ask before taking any face shots.

One could ask, "why would anyone take photos of aircraft?" Doesn't that warrant suspicion?

In that case we should ban news or other television programs from including images of people at airports, in shopping centres, or even war zones as that too is an invasion of privacy and could be suspicious.
A man may learn wisdom even from a foe - Aristophanes
 
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jeffh747
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:20 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 25):
YouTubers who film boarding, and in the process, other passengers and the flight crew. Why would one film the boarding of pax?

I admittedly used to do that simply to show the aircraft while boarding as I found it interesting especially on widebody aircraft. I've since stopped as I realize how uncomfortable it must make the fellow passengers feel as I'm walking down the aisle with my camera recording. The only time I do that anymore is when I'm deboarding and can obscure the faces of passengers.
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seabosdca
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:42 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 25):
People filming others does warrant some suspicion.

Why is filming or photographing (provided it's in public, and not being done in a way that constitutes an invasion of privacy) considered so suspicious to start with? I've never understood that.
 
bennett123
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:54 pm

N415XJ

If he answers that question he might then have to kill you.  
 
guyanam
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:02 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 1):
Quoting tonystan (Reply 5):

Always amused by those who immediately damn passengers as a nuisance. Here is my advice to airline crews. If you hate passengers and think that we are nuisances, GET ANOTHER job!

1. The FA "had the impression that she was filiming". This isn't the same as SEEING them actually filiming.

2. At what point is there an announcement that "filiming in flight procedures is illegal". And what procedures would these be? The safety demonstrations, or FAs walking down the aisle handing out dry pretzels?
If filming is illegal then passengers should be made aware of it, especially now that every cell phone is also a video camera, and people seem obsessed with this.

Since 9/11 a minority of disgruntled airline crews, those who hate their jobs no doubt, abuse the fact that there has had to be higher thresholds of safety and passenger compliance. They escalate the smallest incidence, and also attempt to intimidate passenger who are often forced to argue for their rights when the airline tries to treat them like cattle.

And why is it ALWAYS those dressed in "Muslim" attire who seem to be singled out. I doubt that these types of passengers, who frequently encounter racism at airports, will be LESS compliant than are other passengers.
 
tonystan
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 31):

at what point have I "damn passengers as a nuisance"! If anything I'm damning modern media!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
guyanam
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 32):

Unless the incident didn't happen, it isn't "damn media", it is "damn passengers". Being escorted off a plane, when no reason was given, is not only humiliating, but for someone dressed in Muslim attire, or who has a Muslim name, potentially dangerous.

If she was doing something "illegal" did the crew tell her to stop doing it? Apparently not. If they did tell her, did she loudly refuse to comply with their request? Apparently not. If this had happened a passenger would have made comment on it.

This is just yet another incident of FA rage, with a vulnerable passenger as the target. If FA crews are overworked, or feel that they are treated shabbily by their airline, or are angered by being made scape goats by passengers frustrated at poor quality service, then they ought to take it up with management!

How often do we hear of people dressed in Muslim attire being humiliated for no reason, other then the prejudices of the flight crew.

If there is a abuse, it is the role of the media to report it. Now maybe this isn't an incident that bothers you, because you don't think that you will ever be profiled, but for others, it just becomes yet another harassing incident.
 
Flaps
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:59 pm

The reason for someone being uncomfortable with being photographed is immaterial. For one thing it's simply rude and disrespectful. One should ALWAYS ask first. I have been taking photos of the interiors and window views of airliners for more than 40 years. Not one of those photos has a person's face shown without their explicit permission. I take my photos looking out the windows or from the rear of the aircraft where no faces are shown. When I want photos of the interior from the front I wait for the other passengers to deplane and very politely ask the F/A(s) if I may do so, explaining my reason for wanting to do so. I have never once been denied such a request. I have even had a few volunteer to pose or take a few shots with me in the picture.

A little bit of respect and common decency goes a long way, Respect and so called "common decency" is completely free of charge and goes quite a long way. Something far too many in today's society either fail remember, fail to practice or are not being taught.
 
pygmalion
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:38 pm

The JetBlue Contract of Carriage says nothing about not being able to take photos or videos during flight.

http://www.jetblue.com/p/jetblue_coc.pdf
 
tonystan
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:34 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 33):

I think you have completely missed my point altogether not to mention that we only have one side of the story regarding this event. And the side that is being reported is also hopelessly vague.

And FYI, the only people I ever hear making comments regarding people in Muslim attire or of middle eastern origin are US customers so I fear the engrained prejudice is not simply relegated to a few rogue cabin crew members but quite a lot of US society.

I'm not saying things are perfect and harmonious here in the EU but nonetheless I do have 18 years experience to work off!

[Edited 2016-03-11 15:47:12]
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
guyanam
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:51 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 36):

Given that we have only one side of the story, why are you ready to attribute blame to the media, implying that the passengers deserved being humiliated?
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:29 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 29):

Why is filming or photographing (provided it's in public, and not being done in a way that constitutes an invasion of privacy) considered so suspicious to start with? I've never understood that.

Because anyone has the right to refuse to be filmed. Even a tourist in a non-American nation must be asked (and perhaps tipped) before taking a picture or filming. Don't do it and you are likely to see your expensive camera smashed on the concrete.

Why do flight crews rate less respect than anyone else?

[Edited 2016-03-11 16:31:54]
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:48 am

Quoting Carfield (Reply 18):
There are so many ways that the F/As could have stepped in, but they chose not to do anything. If they were such a danger, they could have landed somewhere.

I had similar thoughts. If it was so dangerous, why wait till the only one that was inconvenienced was the passenger? It'll be interesting to see how B6's review of this incident goes, if we should ever hear the outcome.

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 25):
Why would one film the boarding of pax?

Why not? Welcome to the current millenium. Everyone's got a camera. If you're in public, you get photographed.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 34):

The reason for someone being uncomfortable with being photographed is immaterial. For one thing it's simply rude and disrespectful. One should ALWAYS ask first. I have been taking photos of the interiors and window views of airliners for more than 40 years.

Yes, a lot of things that may be impolite 40 years ago happen now and there's no putting the toothpaste back into the tube....
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:56 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 38):
Because anyone has the right to refuse to be filmed.

First, as a legal matter, in a public place in the U.S., that is simply not true. The First Amendment protects anyone's right to film in public, and that trumps any supposed "right to refuse to be filmed." In a public place, asking for permission is common courtesy but it is not at all legally required. You may be confusing "right not to be filmed" with "right not to have someone make money off a film of you without permission," which does exist in weak form under American law.

The airport is quite clearly a public place. Whether the interior of the airplane is a public place is a more complicated question.

Second, I didn't ask why it's impolite or obnoxious, I asked why it was suspicious. There's this mindset out there that holds that 1) terrorists are going to get some kind of extraordinary intelligence or insight if they can film ordinary day-to-day stuff and 2) regular people don't film things and if you film you are a Suspicious Person. Neither one of those premises remotely makes sense to me.

[Edited 2016-03-11 17:58:19]

[Edited 2016-03-11 18:00:56]
 
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RE: Women Thrown Out Of Plane For 'Staring' At Crew

Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:49 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 36):

On several occasions people in Muslim attire have been tossed off flights, and in more than one occasion, because a pilot refused to fly with them on board.

Unless a passenger is misbehaving, or is unhygienic, or the flight is over sold, why will a passenger be tossed off? Would it be OK if a white passenger was tossed off a plane because its filled with blacks who object to their presence?

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 38):


FAs walk up and down the aisles, so will clearly attract attention, especially from passengers who don't have a window seat. So what's this nonsense about having some "privacy" rights.

There was actually a time when FAs were even selected on the basis of being "easy on the eye", given that there would attract attention from the passengers.

Now an FA has a meltdown and calls the cops because she is upset that some one is staring at her. Hmmm

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