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LAXintl
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Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:36 am

95 year old Ted Vallas says after 6-years of trying, the dream of launching California Pacific Airlines (CP Air) is "months" away from commencing service as it works to earn its certificate.

Under revised business plan they now plan to utilize ERJ135 aircraft with service Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Tucson. Under future growth phases larger 70-seat EMB170s would be phased in allowing for service to Washington state and Texas allegedly.

However the County says it still has not received correct applications from the airline for the use of Carlsbad airport and the required environmental review process alone could take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. The airline has also yet to submit required certifications, TSA approvals or even its proposed schedule to the airport.


Local airline expects to begin flights soon
http://www.thecoastnews.com/2016/03/...ine-expects-to-begin-flights-soon/

Struggling airline startup says it is close to takeoff
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...0/california-pacific-airlines-faa/

=

From my knowledge the carriers DOT economic authority expired long ago as well, so it would have to resubmit those for financial fitness review before DOT would issue an air carrier license.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:18 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

95 year old Ted Vallas

Holy smokes! Nothing like going out with a bang. lol

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Under revised business plan they now plan to utilize ERJ135 aircraft

Probably a lot cheaper to acquire and perhaps lower crew and landing fees, but how do you make any money with those as a small standalone regional carrier? Not that I'm disparaging the idea - I have plenty of dreams of seeing just such a carrier take to the skies in California and regionally. I just don't see it happening with ERJ135s (or any 50 seaters).

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
with service Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Tucson.

So competing with Southwest, Southwest, Southwest, Southwest, Southwest and Southwest. Though the second article at least says Cabo and not Tucson.

I was also struck by the amount of money that they have so far spent - $18M-$20M. That's a lot of money for such a small startup to have already gone through before ever getting off the ground, I'd think.

-Dave
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Web500sjc
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):

If you want to make a million dollars on airlines, start with a billion.


This is the idea that never ends. Hopefully this time they can come up with a better set of plans that get approved at the right time. I wonder how they will find the requisite pilots though, they will have to pay higher than anyone else.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:44 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 2):
This is the idea that never ends. Hopefully this time they can come up with a better set of plans that get approved at the right time. I wonder how they will find the requisite pilots though, they will have to pay higher than anyone else.

The article mentioned that their ERJ135s would seat 30 passengers, which might be a mistake. However, if they do seat only 30 passengers, are their any different requirements for their pilots that would make it easier for staffing?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:14 pm

I wonder if they are going the Ultimate Air route as they only have 30 pax jets too. IIRC, they can do limited scheduled public charters as a Part 135 carrier.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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Polot
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:11 pm

Lets hope they actually have people who know what they are doing this time (doubtful). They failed almost half of the categories the last time they sought a FAA certificate.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):
I was also struck by the amount of money that they have so far spent - $18M-$20M. That's a lot of money for such a small startup to have already gone through before ever getting off the ground, I'd think.

You burn through money pretty quickly when you are delayed getting your application reviewed (because of sequestration) then having it repeatedly denied all while having a plane in your possession sucking money away in lease/parking payments.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 4):
I wonder if they are going the Ultimate Air route as they only have 30 pax jets too. IIRC, they can do limited scheduled public charters as a Part 135 carrier.

Of course BizJet (using Ultimate Air) attempted that following CP Air's failed effort to get off the ground. Their CLD-LAS/LAX service lasted about a month.

[Edited 2016-03-11 06:14:14]
 
sccutler
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:55 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

However the County says it still has not received correct applications from the airline for the use of Carlsbad airport and the required environmental review process alone could take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. The airline has also yet to submit required certifications, TSA approvals or even its proposed schedule to the airport.

What stunning commentary on the bureaucratic state we've built. There's an airline terminal built and ready for use; they should be able to put up the signs, connect the phones, sign the leases and go.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

95 year old Ted Vallas

Holy smokes! Nothing like going out with a bang. lol

Heh. My wife's grandmother turned 109 a couple of weeks ago, and she honestly could have run her business until the last couple of years.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
UALFAson
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:12 pm

Interesting. A California Pacific-liveried 170 or 175 has been sitting at the Embraer facility at BNA for quite some time now. Just saw it this morning while landing here, as a matter of fact.
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ScottB
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:16 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 5):
Of course BizJet (using Ultimate Air) attempted that following CP Air's failed effort to get off the ground. Their CLD-LAS/LAX service lasted about a month.

That CLD-LAX service was one of the dumber business plans I've seen...

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):
So competing with Southwest, Southwest, Southwest, Southwest, Southwest and Southwest. Though the second article at least says Cabo and not Tucson.

         Southwest effectively caps what they can charge from CLD. It will be difficult or impossible to get a premium at CLD because they won't offer a comparable schedule. The convenient location (for their target market) of CLD offers value, but not if the flights aren't frequent enough; it's worth it to spend 45 minutes driving to SAN if the next flight from CLD is in four hours.

And worse yet, the costs of an E135 will be far higher.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):
I was also struck by the amount of money that they have so far spent - $18M-$20M. That's a lot of money for such a small startup to have already gone through before ever getting off the ground, I'd think.

IMO they would have been far better-off going the scheduled charter route and using an operator like Republic to get things up & running. At least that would provide some clarity as to whether the business plan makes enough sense to pursue a certificate.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:19 pm

I agree the easier and far cheaper path would be to have gone and as public charter.

Though I still dont see CP Air having much of a chance as market pricing will very much be dictated by folks like Southwest from SAN and SNA.
With high seat cost of small E135, I cant see them even coming close to covering cost. Its not like CP will be able to change $300 r/t when SWA is busy pushing $39, $59, $79 fares to these same markets while also offering high frequency schedules.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Its not like CP will be able to change $300 r/t when SWA is busy pushing $39, $59, $79 fares to these same markets while also offering high frequency schedules.

I never see numbers anywhere close to that. I just checked SWA for a flight up to oakland from san diego for Monday-Wednesday, and round trip it's over $500. I often make the flight san diego to san jose for business and I've never seen it cheaper than $300. Of course, I usually book pretty late, but that's usually what business fliers do.

Lately, since I got my private cert, I just fly it myself. 10 minutes to Palomar, 15 minutes to preflight, and 2-2.5 hours in a Piper Comanche beats 45-60 minutes to Lindbergh, 30 minutes in security, 30-60 minutes at the gate, and a 1 hour flight for me any day. Hell of a lot more fun too, and comparable expense wise if I take a coworker.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:05 pm

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 10):
Hell of a lot more fun too, and comparable expense wise if I take a coworker.

I am sure you only have that passenger paying for half the cost of fuel only correct?  
 
BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 11):
I am sure you only have that passenger paying for half the cost of fuel only correct?

But of course! And we leave 8 hours and one minute after my last swig of moonshine.   
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 10):
I never see numbers anywhere close to that. I just checked SWA for a flight up to oakland from san diego for Monday-Wednesday, and round trip it's over $500. I often make the flight san diego to san jose for business and I've never seen it cheaper than $300. Of course, I usually book pretty late, but that's usually what business fliers do.

Only about 20% of tickets in the US are purchased within 7-days of travel.

Accordingly CP Air will be competing to capture the same passengers that buy those advance purchase tickets on competitors like SWA and everyone else out of SAN.

Add in the fact that CP will hardly have much frequency to match a competitor like SWA, I just dont see anyway they will be able to draw a fare premium to cover their higher seat cost even among last minute travelers which very well can find SWA schedule and frequent flyer benefits even more appealing.

Unless one has zero flexibility and insist flying out of CLD while outside market dynamics don't matter then I suppose CP Air might be good for those clients.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
32andBelow
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:42 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Add in the fact that CP will hardly have much frequency to match a competitor like SWA, I just dont see anyway they will be able to draw a fare premium to cover their higher seat cost even among last minute travelers which very well can find SWA schedule and frequent flyer benefits even more appealing.

Unless one has zero flexibility and insist flying out of CLD while outside market dynamics don't matter then I suppose CP Air might be good for those clients.

Not to mention AS is at SAN, SNA, LAX, ONT, with flights to Oregon and Washington as well.
 
Wingtips56
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:22 am

Cal Pac could probably charge marginally higher fares ex-Carlsbad because of the appeal to the local market. Maybe $20-25 oneway more than the SAN/SNA fares due to the convenience of the local airport. If parking is free/cheap.

But people on the other end: SMF/Bay Area/out of state mostly don't know where Carlsbad is, so only a few might recognize the convenience factor enough to pay more. Most probably wouldn't even know to look at Carlsbad, unless they have friends/family there.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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Siren
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:56 pm

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):
I was also struck by the amount of money that they have so far spent - $18M-$20M. That's a lot of money for such a small startup to have already gone through before ever getting off the ground, I'd think.

I have a very strong feeling that the actual business plan is to never actually get off the ground. They don't really intend to launch service - this is simply a Baltia-esque operation that continues to suck investor dollars.

Quoting Polot (Reply 5):
You burn through money pretty quickly when you are delayed getting your application reviewed (because of sequestration) then having it repeatedly denied all while having a plane in your possession sucking money away in lease/parking payments.

It's usually convenient how there's always an excuse to delay service, yet there's always money to pay the executive salaries.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 7):

Interesting. A California Pacific-liveried 170 or 175 has been sitting at the Embraer facility at BNA for quite some time now. Just saw it this morning while landing here, as a matter of fact.

Baltia has had 2 separate 747-200s in their history, that sat parked and did nothing but sit on their balance sheet, so they could say, "Look! We have an airplane! We're serious! Give us money!"

I would be absolutely astonished if this racket turns into a real airline. As of now, I simply see just a miniature Baltia type operation. Great work if you can get it, but it's disingenuous and ultimately fraudulent as you're spending investor dollars promising to be trying to establish service, rather than simply looking like you're attempting to establish service. There's a difference. If you're truly serious about starting up an operation, you can get a certificate, and slots, and planes. You just have to see it through. It takes a concerted effort, and the FAA sees to that... to ensure that no fly-by-nights like the Baltia folks can get a cert. Unless they buy one that's already been issued - which is another can of worms, and a different topic entirely...

It's a nice idea, but WN pretty much has the local traffic locked up. Even if the demand existed, few would be willing to travel on ERJ-135s. Now, a 170/175 is another story entirely... that's nicer than a 737. I have my doubts.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:10 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 7):
A California Pacific-liveried 170 or 175 has been sitting at the Embraer facility at BNA for quite some time now. Just saw it this morning while landing here, as a matter of fact.

It came from California Pacific V1....
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bjorn14
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:15 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 15):

You bring up an interesting point as to how CP will market CLD? San Diego/Carlsbad, San Diego North, etc.?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:44 am

Quoting Siren (Reply 16):
I have a very strong feeling that the actual business plan is to never actually get off the ground. They don't really intend to launch service - this is simply a Baltia-esque operation that continues to suck investor dollars.

Given the folks involved and the fact that the head of the operation is 95 years old, I'm not sure I agree with the intent of the operation. But regardless, the outcome will likely be the same.

-Dave
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kgaiflyer
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Re: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:23 pm

I recently flew Victoria BC to Calgary AB (about 500 miles over the Rockies) on a AC Q400 with 66 of my closest friends. That's about the distance to SMF, yes? Maybe a turboprop might get a better reception from the County. Btw, another friend flies weekly from Victoria to Seattle on an AS Q400 with a cat carrier. They're plenty roomy. And didn't Carlsbad *formerly* have turboprop service?
 
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atypical
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Re: RE: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:16 am

bjorn14 wrote:
I wonder if they are going the Ultimate Air route as they only have 30 pax jets too. IIRC, they can do limited scheduled public charters as a Part 135 carrier.


ERJ135 payload is too high for Part 135. Ultimate uses Do 328Js for scheduled operations because of that reason.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:19 pm

Any news about ol' CalPac?
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readytotaxi
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Re: Carlsbad Based California Pacific Will Try Again

Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:14 pm

"95 year old Ted Vallas says"

Would you enroll in a FF program at that age?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.

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