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uhntissbaby111
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Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:24 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/11/mh370-debris-found-by-teenager-on-holiday-to-be-tested-in-australia?client=safari#

Although not really "new" since it was found about a year ago
 
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aerolimani
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:25 pm

 
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Classa64
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:30 pm

I would think only numbers that match the plane it came from will tell you if its in fact from MH370. A lot of crap floating around our oceans.

C.
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N14AZ
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:31 pm

What about the part they found before? The one with blue colour on it.

I get very excited every time they find a part. But then again, even if they find dozens of parts, it will still not explain what happened on that flight. That's the frustrating part...

PS.: I appreciate this new thread, the other one has been hijacked... 
 
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Erebus
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:26 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):
PS.: I appreciate this new thread, the other one has been hijacked...

        

That other one became MH370 missing thread #1458.
 
airnorth
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:08 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):
PS.: I appreciate this new thread, the other one has been hijacked..

Agreed!

Only a matter of time for this thread to be taken over by the crack pots.
Interesting to see the similarities in the construction of the parts. Without any kind of official, or expert analysis of the parts and locations of the discoveries, it all has to be taken with some skepticism I'm afraid. But like the first part that was all encrusted in sea life, maybe these too will prove to be from the Malaysian flight. I wish I knew more about this type of forensic science, I find it all fascinating.
 
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77west
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:48 am

Top of an engine pylon?
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AlexA340B777
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:42 am

repost from the other "hijacked" thread from last Wednesday:



http://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news...amily-picks-possible-mh370-debris/

Apparently found in Mozambique already back in December and brought home to South Africa like souvenir... Ouch.

I guess we have something here, as the number on the piece is really matching the part number of a Boeing 777 "outbd flap aft rh side access panel" in following link:

http://portal.aersale.com/ECommerce/...9250-10%20(0).pdf&isDocument=False


Should make the big news soon if all that info is correct, so lets wait and see the next hours...


Alex
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A333MSPtoAMS
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:50 am

Quoting AlexA340B777 (Reply 7):
http://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news...amily-picks-possible-mh370-debris/

Here's an updated link:
http://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news...amily-picks-possible-mh370-debris/
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777Jet
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:42 am

Quoting airnorth (Reply 5):
I wish I knew more about this type of forensic science, I find it all fascinating.

You do realize that it's not too late to get in contact with a university???
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TheFlyingDisk
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:34 am

So this is the South African "souvenir" part?

I do believe that in the other thread it was somewhat identified as part of the fairing.
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ba9216c
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:30 pm

Quoting 77west (Reply 6):

This will be some sort of wing panel not pylon. The pylons are usually 4xx numbers. The left wing is 5xx and right wing is 6xx. The picture looks like the panel says 676EB, the B Annotates bottom of the wing. An ET for example would annotate Top.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:49 pm

Quoting ba9216c (Reply 11):
676EB

Panel 676EB is the flap support fairing no. 7 - Aft in the B777 AMM.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:58 pm

So just to get my head around this, we have 4 pieces of MH370 debris found with varying degrees of certainty:
1. Flaperon piece found July on Reunion - Confirmed
2. Horizontal Stab part with "No Step" written on it found on Mozambique sandbank - discovered recently but had been there for a while - Likely
3. Part found on Reunion in July - see reply 85 here: News: Possible MH370 Part Found Near Mozambique (by washingtonflyer Mar 2 2016 in Civil Aviation)#1 - dubious?
4. Part found in Mozambique in December, taken to Sth Africa - has part number 676EB - flap support fairing. - Almost certain

Is that right?

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):
PS.: I appreciate this new thread, the other one has been hijacked... 

Damn right.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
acelanzarote
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:05 pm

You have to wonder how many other pieces have/will be washed up and found by people (tribal etc) who have no idea what happened with that flight and therefore take it as normal sea juck and throw it away/burn etc.
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United787
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 13):

So just to get my head around this, we have 4 pieces of MH370 debris found with varying degrees of certainty:
1. Flaperon piece found July on Reunion - Confirmed
2. Horizontal Stab part with "No Step" written on it found on Mozambique sandbank - discovered recently but had been there for a while - Likely
3. Part found on Reunion in July - see reply 85 here: News: Possible MH370 Part Found Near Mozambique (by washingtonflyer Mar 2 2016 in Civil Aviation)#1 - dubious?
4. Part found in Mozambique in December, taken to Sth Africa - has part number 676EB - flap support fairing. - Almost certain

Is that right?

Thank you for summarizing, can't confirm if you are right.

I wonder if any of this debris will be able to tell investigators anything, assuming it is all from MH370? Will they be able to get an idea about how the plane impacted the water? Anything else they might be able to determine?
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 14):
You have to wonder how many other pieces have/will be washed up and found by people (tribal etc) who have no idea what happened with that flight and therefore take it as normal sea juck and throw it away/burn etc.

Probably very few, if any. The number of people who have no idea about MH370 is likely very small. More likely pieces have washed up and not been found by anyone.
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WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:22 pm

I found a better diagram of the No. 7 Fairing that clearly shows the 676EB panel from page 240, 06-44-00 of the 777 AMM

http://i.imgur.com/Eqo5Wn8.png

As you can see, it is by far the biggest panel, over one meter long, and since it is the aft portion of the fairing, it would move in the aft direction in the event that the flap is deployed, thus it would be especially vulnerable in a ditching scenario.

It looks to me that from the hi-rez picture in reply #1 by aerolimani above, that the right, relatively undamaged portion of the part would be the front part of the 676EB panel. When it was deployed, it would act like a scoop, and then snap off, leaving the aft portion still attached to the flap actuator mechanism.

IMHO YMMV
 
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777Jet
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:40 pm

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 17):
As you can see, it is by far the biggest panel, over one meter long, and since it is the aft portion of the fairing, it would move in the aft direction in the event that the flap is deployed, thus it would be especially vulnerable in a ditching scenario.

  

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 17):
It looks to me that from the hi-rez picture in reply #1 by aerolimani above, that the right, relatively undamaged portion of the part would be the front part of the 676EB panel.

I interpret the pic the same way - the panel looks up-side-down and back-to-front the way the pic was taken (180 degree rotation needed). The damage you see on the top of the image could actually be the impact of the water on the bottom of the panel which also pulled the end cone off of the panel???
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kanban
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:47 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 13):
has part number 676EB

I believe that is a maintenance manual reference number.. from the position shown in post #17 above, the actual Boeing part number would be in the 112W(xxxx) series.
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:56 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 18):
Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 17):It looks to me that from the hi-rez picture in reply #1 by aerolimani above, that the right, relatively undamaged portion of the part would be the front part of the 676EB panel.

I interpret the pic the same way - the panel looks up-side-down and back-to-front the way the pic was taken (180 degree rotation needed). The damage you see on the top of the image could actually be the impact of the water on the bottom of the panel which also pulled the end cone off of the panel???

The found piece is much thinner than the diagram from the AMM, which more like 3 sides of a box. Looks like we are looking at the bottom side that got torn off. I am curious about the line of rivets to the rear: they don't look far enough back for the little cone at the aft end. On that bill of sale, there's an interior shot that shows a bracket on the inside. I'm guessing those holes aren't for rivets, but are for removable fasteners. On the other hand, we could be wrong about the right end at the first photo being the front end of the panel. Perhaps the line of holes actually is for the cone at the end???
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:05 pm

Hard to find good photos, but here is one with a good view of the flaps in extended position, taken by Takuji Sohmura and posted on this website. There is definitely a crack between the two access panels (676AB and 676EB).

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan...d=3eae2a63c0a2017e446cc79a49d464d2
 
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AlexA340B777
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:43 am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...o-be-from-missing-plane?CMP=twt_gu

New part found in Reunion (I guess that is the blue coloured one) unlikely to be from MH370...


Alex
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777Jet
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:34 am

For those wondering why there has been little news / updates on the found items:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Why is suspected MH370 debris taking so long to reach Australia?'

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...y/9c844b8265f70732cd08980daf66bf59

""""BLAINE Gibson’s suspected MH370 plane part should be here by now.

It should be sitting in the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) lab in Canberra and a panel of international and Boeing specialists should have a pretty good idea about its provenance.

Instead, the triangular “NO STEP” piece is languishing in a room at the Ministry of Transport in Kuala Lumpur, waiting to be joined by another object, a wing part found by South African teen Liam Lotter and thought to have come from the same Boeing 777.

Malaysian authorities have been dispatched to collect Mr Lotter’s piece but ATSB last night could not say whether it had left South Africa yet.

Last week, ATSB Chief Commissioner Martin Dolan told news.com.au that Mr Gibson’s fragment was due to leave Mozambique for Australia on March 9, with analysis expected to have begun on the Monday or Tuesday of this week.

No mention was made of a stop over in Kuala Lumpur. When the suspected fragment of B777 horizontal stabiliser landed in KL on March 10, people half-joked on social media that it would probably never make it to Australia.

US science and aviation journalist and MH370 commentator Jeff Wise tweeted sarcastically: “Possibly the first time in history that part of an aircraft has been hijacked twice.”

Now insiders are questioning whether the delay is a yet another attempt by Malaysia to undermine the investigation.

Malaysian Transport Minister Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai told local reporters that the Mozambique debris will undergo local testing before being forwarded to Australia.

“Tests and analysis will be conducted in advance on the debris found in Mozambique before it is sent to Australia for verification if it actually belonged to MH370,” he said on March 10.

“On when the results will be obtained, that I cannot confirm and I will leave it to the experts ... but we hope as soon as possible.”

MH370 Independent Group (IG) member Victor Iannello had previously expressed concern that any testing of debris before it reaches the international panel of investigators may damage the parts.

EIGHT VITAL MH370 QUESTIONS WE NEED ANSWERS TO

However, last night the ATSB disputed Mr Liow’s comments, giving weight to suspicions Australian authorities have been blindsided by their Malaysian counterparts.

“We are not aware of the Malaysian authorities having carried out any tests on the debris recovered by Mr Gibson,” a spokesman told News.com.au.

“We have been advised that the debris remains securely stored in the Ministry of Transport until it is to be transported to Australia.”

The spokesman could not say when that would happen and advised any questions about the logistics of transporting the debris should be directed to Malaysian authorities.

Sources close to the investigation told News.com.au overnight that the development smacks of Malaysia “screwing the ATSB over” and “undermining the investigation”.

One specialist, who requested anonymity, said the ATSB was “probably furious” and was now redirecting all questions about debris to Malaysia in order to prevent being further embarrassment.""""

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- I didn't paste the entire article in here so if you want to read the full article go to the link.

Anyway, that Malaysia is delaying sending the items to the ATSB should come as no surprise given the way certain snakes there have undermined the handling of MH370 from the beginning.

And these same snakes actually think that people will believe the results of their "local testing" on these items... the fools!

For a long time now the only role Malaysia should be having in this investigation, based on their incompetence and lack of transparency so far, is the opening of their stingy wallet to pay for the search of what they lost...
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WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:14 pm

Looks like they found a piece of the engine cowling in South Africa:



No barnacles. Must be because of those pesky beach salters...  

ETA: Picture of intact cowling:



[Edited 2016-03-22 07:18:46]

ETA2: Wanna bet it's from the right engine cowling?


[Edited 2016-03-22 07:21:40]
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:17 pm

I suppose over the years underwater currents will continue to break off lighter pieces and eventually they will float to the surface. IMHO the chances of finding the major wreckage will be an accident or until underwater scanning has improved to such an extent that it can scan larger and deeper than current equipment.
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WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:31 pm

As far as I know, the composite materials and aluminum that these parts are made of are more dense than water. The only reason they float are the honeycombs that seal in trapped air. Most likely the plane is a couple of miles down. These depths will crush military-grade, nuclear submarines. Therefore, anything that requires air pockets to float would have all the air crushed out of the item, and it would never be able to float back to the surface. I've been told that if you send down a Styrofoam coffee cup down with a deep water sensor, and bring it back up, it will be the size of a thimble, and will not float. Also, the deep water environment at two miles down is an extremely calm environment where nothing ever happens.

These parts broke off during the crash. That it's been two years to be found is actually about right.

The question is: Do they support (A) the mechanical failure hypothesis; or (B) the deliberate flight control input hypothesis. The answer to that question would have substantive implications for search area priorities.

It is unfortunate that the experts here cannot be bothered to weigh in on this question.

These are the facts: 5 pieces of debris:

1. flaperon, right side, confidence level that it came from 9M-MRO: reasonable certainty
2. "NO STEP" object, location uncertain (probably horizontal stabilizer); confidence level: beyond reasonable doubt
3. "676EB" object, location No. 7 flap actuator fairing; confidence level: beyond reasonable doubt
4. "Rolls Royce" object, location left or right engine fairing; confidence level: beyond reasonable doubt
5. 2nd Johny Begue object, location uncertain (possible wing fairing at cheat line): confidence level: not preponderance of evidence
6. Drift studies of actual buoys suggest that 18-20% of all floating debris should have washed up on shore somewhere, most of it in east Africa and northwest coast of Madagascar, but with 4-5% washing up in western Australia.

Of the five, two can be located with certainty: they both come from near the right engine on the inboard, trailing edge of the right wing. The "Rolls Royce" object came from either the left or right engine fairing. Nothing from the interior of the a/c has been recovered.

I understand that there is a school of thought that if the cause of the crash was not mechanical failure, then finding the a/c is not worth the cost and effort.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:34 am

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 26):
Of the five, two can be located with certainty: they both come from near the right engine on the inboard, trailing edge of the right wing. The "Rolls Royce" object came from either the left or right engine fairing. Nothing from the interior of the a/c has been recovered.

Perhaps a controlled ditching went wrong?

One wing hits the water first and the plane cartwheels.

More debris break free from the aircraft wing, engine, horizontal stabilizer, on the side of the aircraft that hit the water first.

Could flight MH370 have ended in a way similar to the hi-jacked Ethiopian 767?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE2Yn0cipTY
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WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:16 pm

The ET961 video is instructive: left wing and engine hit first, and cause the a/c to roll to the left, causing the left horizontal stabilizer to strike the water.

In the case of MH370, an attempted ditching would presumably align parallel to the swells. It probably would be going south, with the swell moving from west to east (right to left from the a/c perspective). Therefore, even if the a/c was perfectly level, we could expect the right wingtip or engine to hit first. If the Rolls Royce object recently found is determined to come from right engine cowling, this event would explain the cowling fragment's detachment, as well as the detachment of the right flaperon and the No. 7 flap actuator fairing.

If the a/c behaved as in ET961, it then might roll to the right, causing the right horizontal stabilizer to strike the water. If the "NO STEP" object really come from the right horizontal stabilizer, as has been suggested, then such a roll could explain the detachment of the "NO STEP" object.

The major differences between MH370 and ET961 would be (1) no one fighting over control inputs; (2) more time to line up; (3) possible power that would allow deployment of flaps, allowing a slower impact speed; and most importantly (4), there would not be the reef that caused ET961's fuselage to separate into several sections.

Note also that, surprisingly IMO, that the left engine of ET961 did not in fact detach from the wing. Therefore, it is not necessary to assume that the right engine of MH370 detached in order to explain the detachment of the flaperon and No. 7 fairing. Not striking a reef and possibly having the flaps deployed would increase the chances that the fuselage would remain intact, which would explain the apparent absence of any interior debris, as well as the apparent overall dearth of debris.

All in all, the physical evidence thus far recovered seems to better support the controlled input theory, rather than the mechanical failure theory IMHO.

YMMV
 
markalot
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 28):
In the case of MH370, an attempted ditching would presumably align parallel to the swells.

At night though? Might be hard to see the swells.
M a r k
 
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winterlight
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:02 pm

I found some grey paint flakes on a Norfolk beach recently. They MUST be from MH370.
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WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting markalot (Reply 29):
At night though? Might be hard to see the swells.

It would depend on the longitude. Probably there was at least twilight locally.
 
marktci
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 30):

I found some grey paint flakes on a Norfolk beach recently. They MUST be from MH370.

Maybe N844AA?

I'm joking, but I wonder if there were greater awareness and if (big if) it actually ditched in the Atlantic whether some pieces of it might have turned up somewhere.
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:23 pm

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 28):
Not striking a reef and possibly having the flaps deployed would increase the chances that the fuselage would remain intact, which would explain the apparent absence of any interior debris, as well as the apparent overall dearth of debris.

And of course, minutes after I post the above, this turns up on twitter:



‏@DouweZijp · 37m37 minutes ago

#MH370 #ennofreese #douwezijp found on Dolphin Beach naar Capetown; toilet MH370!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does it look like a Boeing toilet? I am not an expert....


ETA: Here is the other picture that was posted:



However, a quick look through a google image search of Boeing 777 toilets did not turn up anything obviously identical to my eye.

Very weird though....

[Edited 2016-03-23 08:37:56]
 
hinckley
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 33):
#MH370 #ennofreese #douwezijp found on Dolphin Beach naar Capetown; toilet MH370!!!

Crazy. If debris has made it's way to Cape Town, other pieces may be crossing the South Atlantic on the way to the Brazilian and Argentine east coasts!
 
teahan
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:07 pm

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 33):
Does it look like a Boeing toilet? I am not an expert....

Boeing 777s are equipped with vacuum toilets. It doesn't look like one to me.
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Erebus
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:26 pm

Couldn't find an MH 777 toilet. But here's an MH 737 business class toilet.

http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/Rt...edia/BKI/097-504-IMG_6125.jpg.html

(lol'd @ the photobucket special offers)
 
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smittythepirate
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Nah that looks like a regular portable toilet base. Small hole is for an attachable urinal, big hole is for the ventilation pipe that goes through the roof.
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kanban
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:27 pm

Quoting WarrenPlatts (Reply 28):

one needs to be careful and not see the bits as validation of a conjectured theory.. Too often we try to make objects fit our belief when there is not conclusive evidence..
 
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Erebus
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:44 pm

Quoting smittythepirate (Reply 38):

Nah that looks like a regular portable toilet base. Small hole is for an attachable urinal, big hole is for the ventilation pipe that goes through the roof.

Makes sense.

http://www.contractorsportables.com/.../1/0/2/7/10271403/3324491_orig.jpg
 
gzm
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:50 pm

Now,are we talking about toilets? Please,this is beside the point...
 
EMAman
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:02 pm

Quoting gzm (Reply 41):
Now,are we talking about toilets? Please,this is beside the point...

not entirely if there was some suspicion it from MH370, although I would actually say it wasnt
 
gzm
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:31 pm

More and more pieces will be washed ashore for months and perhaps years. To me it's obvious that the elusive airplane suffered some mechanical failure. We have said before that if the crew had wanted to do something on purpose, they would have made their intentions clear to everyone.It just does not make any sense. It would be much cheaper to have all the shores in the region scoured for pieces of the airplane than to scour the depths of the seas. Try to accept the simple truth: just as there was a precedent to this accident a few years earlier on an other MAS 777 in which the crew were able to regain control of their airplane,it is logical to surmise that on the second occasion, MH 370, they failed. It is as simple as that. It is my belief that every airline forum must have been infiltrated by Boeing people who spoke of the "Boeing product" as if it was a concern of theirs. The simplicity of this case defies mystery.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1561
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 37):
Fox have some breaking news: MH370 parts found on Moon.

Just about sums it up. It's somewhere in the Indian Ocean, probably near Diego Garcia. We won't know what happened until the airframe and Blackboxes are recovered. Even then we might never know. Unitl then, the rest is just idle speculation.
 
WarrenPlatts
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:03 pm

RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:53 pm

Quoting gzm (Reply 41):
Now,are we talking about toilets? Please,this is beside the point...

Hey, that's why airliners.net exists: in order to quickly zero in on the facts. At least it's a good thing that people living on the east African coast are getting sensitized for keeping an eye out for MH370 debris. Finding more debris at this point is about the only way to move this thing forward, barring the underwater search happens to get lucky in the next few months. But so far, if the mechanical failure theory is correct, given the amount of searching that's gone on, it probably should have been found by now.

Quoting smittythepirate (Reply 38):
Nah that looks like a regular portable toilet base. Small hole is for an attachable urinal, big hole is for the ventilation pipe that goes through the roof.

Agreed. lol!

Quoting smittythepirate (Reply 38):
Makes sense.http://www.contractorsportables.com/.../1/0/2/7/10271403/3324491_orig.jpg

Thanks for digging up the picture! That pretty much seals the deal.

Quoting kanban (Reply 39):
one needs to be careful and not see the bits as validation of a conjectured theory.. Too often we try to make objects fit our belief when there is not conclusive evidence..

I agree sir. That's why I'm posting my thinking here in the hopes that some of the real, bona fide experts here could take a crack at it. To me, now that we have found a few objects, the most striking fact is that there is not a bunch more of them. Duncan Steel has just put out three posts in quick succession where he maintains that there must have been a debris field consisting of "thousands" (his estimate) and then gives elaborate arguments about why the airborne search missed this debris field, but that it might have been picked up by a French satellite.

Here is the link to the last of the three posts: http://www.duncansteel.com/archives/2403

But, IMO, if there were literally thousands of debris objects released by MH370, then after two years, there should be hundreds of them washed up, especially in east Africa and Madagascar, so we should be seeing reports of at least several tens of pieces, but we just don't. I am sure there are many more objects on beaches that haven't been picked up. The personal reports of the finders of the east African objects show that all of them had their interest piqued by the lettering or logos on the pieces they found. So no doubt, there have probably been pieces that have washed up somewhere, were seen by people, but passed over as just nondescript junk. That said, it seems to me that more objects should have been recovered by now. If true, that in itself is an important clue IMO. But of course I welcome contrary theories.  
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting gzm (Reply 43):
More and more pieces will be washed ashore for months and perhaps years. It would be much cheaper to have all the shores in the region scoured for pieces of the airplane than to scour the depths of the seas.

I fully agree. They're spending hundreds of millions on the underwater search, when a few thousands of $$$ could survey the most likely coastal areas. Heck, I'm thinking about starting a kickstarter proposal to by a plane ticket to Madagascar. There's that 200 mile stretch of undeveloped beaches along the NE coast where the lion's share of drifting buoys washed up. I figure a crew of 2-4 guys could cover the entire 200 miles in a couple of weeks. Anyone else want to go?

Quoting gzm (Reply 43):
To me it's obvious that the elusive airplane suffered some mechanical failure. We have said before that if the crew had wanted to do something on purpose, they would have made their intentions clear to everyone.It just does not make any sense.

If the disappearance was the result of controlled inputs from start to finish, it wouldn't be the first time in history that something like that has happened. Most pertinantly, there was the Captain Button incident who flew off with an A-10 Thunderbolt loaded with live bombs, flew for over 600 miles, apparently conducted evasive maneuvers before disappearing in the Colorado Rockies. It took 3 weeks to find the wreck, and that's in the middle of the continental United States.

I think there was another incident when a Russian stole an air force plane and circled the airbase near Moscow until the a/c eventually ran out of fuel completely. (Then of course, there were the ET681 hijackers who forced the captain to fly until fuel exhaustion--albeit they were complete idiots it sounds like.) Certainly, a scenario involving controlled flight inputs to the very end does not make sense to normal people, I agree; but it's not like it is completely unprecedented.
 
gzm
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:40 pm

A few years ago there was a pilot who got fired from a small Asian airline-I just can't find the article. He was so angry that he wanted to give them a lesson.He got into an ATR 42, took off and for more than twenty minutes he performed the most spectacular acrobatics to show off his flying skills. Finally, he crashed his airplane onto another two parked ATRs of the same airline and there was a picture in the magazine of the burning planes. The airline was left with only one airplane. That's how an angry pilot commits suicide.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:57 pm

Quoting gzm (Reply 47):

Aunt Wikipedia:

On 11 October 1999, an Air Botswana captain boarded an ATR 42–320 aircraft at Gaborone Airport and took off. Once in the air, he asked by radio to speak to President Festus Mogae (who was outside the country at the time), Air Botswana's general manager and others. In spite of all attempts to persuade him to land and discuss his grievances, he stated he was going to crash into aircraft parked on the airport apron. After a flying time of about two hours, he performed two loops and then crashed at 200 knots (230 mph) into Air Botswana's two other ATR 42s parked on the apron. The captain was killed, but there were no other casualties. He had been grounded on medical reasons, refused reinstatement, and regrounded until February 2000.[21]


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:08 pm

Guess he got his revenge....

OK then let's talk about a mechanical failure. Something happened, incapacitated everyone, and the aircraft flew on autopilot until fuel exhaustion. I know this has been discussed before, but I am recently confused: according to simulator experiments conducted by Michael Exner and associates, when fuel is finally exhausted, the autopilot shuts down, and the plane pitches over to a given side, depending on the rudder trim. (They think MH370 would have banked left due to the BFO data.) According to Mr. Exner, the a/c went into a 90 degree bank? Does that sound reasonable? My understanding is that the overbank protection would still kick in, even with the autopilot off, at 30-something degrees, and that the a/c would follow a phugoid trajectory. In their simulations, the a/c never went supersonic, but it did get quite close, exceeding 500 knots.

Such speeds would then cause trailing edge parts to flutter and become detached, a la Silk Air 185. And that's supposed to explain why the flaperon wasn't demolished: it detached in mid-flight due to flutter. However, I thought that the flaperon is not just a flap--it's also an aileron, and it is supposed to be the aileron of choice for high speeds. Hence its inboard position within the beefiest part of the wing. Other things being equal, I would guess that the flaperon would be the last item to detach due to flutter. Do you have any opinion on that issue?

ETA: OK, here is Mr. Exner's reply to me: "Warren Platts: Normally [the overbank protection] does [kick in]. But apparently it does not function after a flameout, even after the APU comes up and the AP power is restored (but not engaged). Here are screen shots: https://goo.gl/yBsuG1"

[Edited 2016-03-23 13:36:02]
 
hinckley
Posts: 570
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RE: Yet Another New MH370 Part?

Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:06 pm

Quoting gzm (Reply 43):
We have said before that if the crew had wanted to do something on purpose, they would have made their intentions clear to everyone.It just does not make any sense.

I don't think there's a Suicide Manual that explains the steps of how to commit the act. And I don't think any rational living person can possibly understand what an irrational, suicidal individual is thinking.

Quoting gzm (Reply 43):
To me it's obvious that the elusive airplane suffered some mechanical failure.

To my (maybe irrational) mind, it just makes no sense that a mechanical failure or failures could result in an airplane's transponder malfunctioning and an aircraft changing course at the exact point of an ATC hand-off, and for the plane to then navigate along a winding and very precise waypoint-to-waypoint route, all with zero ground communications. I don't know either, but imo, see Germanwings 9525, EgyptAir 990, et al.
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