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KarelXWB
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LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:01 am

Lufthansa ferried an A340-600 to LETL for interim storage, up to 2 years.

What's going on?

Quote:
Airbus A340 -642 790 D-AIHQ Lufthansa ferried 14mar16 MUC-LETL for interim storage for up to 2 years ex F-WWCE
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
kurtverbose
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:33 am

As a general question I don't understand what's going on with A340-600's. It's a more economical aircraft than the 744 and pretty much as capable, yet you see airlines still running 744's and retiring A346's. I could understand that if it's end of lease but otherwise why whould you put an A346 in storage and keep running 744's?
 
lutfi
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:42 am

Engines.

Almost all T500 are on PBH contracts. Almost all B744 engines are owned by the airline. So as you retire B744, you swap the engines around to get every hour of life from them without sending them to overhaul.

Whereas on a A346, you are paying for every hour you fly
 
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zkojq
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:11 am

Why send D-AIHQ, when D-AIHA is older?

Quoting lutfi (Reply 3):

Didn't Lufthansa Technik buy those China Eastern A340-600s, including the engines?
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AirbusA6
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:15 am

I would have thought A346s would be perfect for Iran and Cuba as interim modern long haul aircraft
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na
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:26 am

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 4):
Why send D-AIHQ, when D-AIHA is older?
Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

Lufthansa ferried an A340-600 to LETL for interim storage, up to 2 years.

Seems some of the first batch of A346s based in Munich will be retired once a sizable number of A350s is flying. I guess they will sell D-AIHA then and HQ will be returned to service.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:01 am

Quoting na (Reply 6):
Seems some of the first batch of A346s based in Munich will be retired once a sizable number of A350s is flying.

Wasn't the A340-600 supposed to be retired around 2020?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
na
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:17 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
Wasn't the A340-600 supposed to be retired around 2020?

Yes, but it read that some early-built frames will now be taken out of service earlier, others will be transferred from MUC to FRA (most A346s are stationed in MUC currently). Most A346s however will be replaced by the 777-9 as planned from 2020 onwards.
 
texl1649
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:07 pm

I really do think the rolls engine arrangement/service structure is a hindrance in the secondary market.
 
ZuluTime
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:34 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 5):
I would have thought A346s would be perfect for Iran

And funnily enough, which airline has Lufthansa just announced a co-operation agreement to provide technical support today? Yes, you guessed it - Iran Air.

I wonder if technical support will include accelerated re-fleeting of IR with surplus LH A346s?
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:50 pm

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 10):
And funnily enough, which airline has Lufthansa just announced a co-operation agreement to provide technical support today? Yes, you guessed it - Iran Air.

That is nothing else than a renewal of a 50 year old co-operation. LLH Technoik HAM handled the IR heavy maintenance etc. already in the 60s and IR had a permanent resident engineer stationed there. I would have been surprised if LH did not get that contract.
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CF-CPI
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:23 pm

Quoting na (Reply 8):
Yes, but it read that some early-built frames will now be taken out of service earlier

Early-build A340-600s were heavy, negatively impacting fuel burn and range. Famous examples were the two that CX used prior to 777LR delivery. These ended up with VX, who will probably pull them from the fleet first, if they haven't already.

I have no idea how far into production these weight issues continued, but perhaps it affected the LH fleet as well?
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:29 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
I haven't read this anywhere else but Aviation is a step child of German politics. They listen to the NIMBYs crying against noise but do not realize that aviation is an important Business factor employing almost 900000 People and raising billions in taxes and social contributions.

Ok, but how might this relate to one A346 going to storage? Also, LH has long been one of Europe's largest airline and airline group, is generally profitable so there is a limit to how politics influence LH.

LH has >100 long-haul aircraft, incl. some A380 and plenty of 744 and 748, so I don't see why there would be any political decision behind parking ONE A346.

Yes, airlines do occasionally park a handful of aircraft. It is more cost-effective to park one, withdraw it from service, and better utilize the remaining ones as opposed to having a larger fleet of under-utilized aircraft.
Sounds like a cost-saving or cost-optimization measure to me. Bean counters and route planners probably have come to the conclusion that they can do the same job with one less A346, so here it is.

The world is not going to come to an end, neither will LH, and neither will the A346 because of this.
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olle
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:44 pm

Perhaps Iran will buy some of them?
 
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seahawk
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:00 pm

There are 4 parked A346s at the moment.

D-AIHI in MUC
D-AIHQ
D-AIHR in MLA
D-AIHS in MLA
 
flyinTLow
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:49 pm

Beginning with the summer schedule 2016 ALL A340-600 are based and solely flown out of MUC. No more A340-600 in FRA. Mostly due to maintenance and crew licencing issues. But with all these aircraft coming to MUC, even with the greater summer schedule, there are just too many aircraft there. So parking them is a logical step!
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seabosdca
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 4):
Why send D-AIHQ, when D-AIHA is older?

Probably timing of either engine overhaul or heavy check.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 15):

Curious, what advantage does LH get by parking 2 A346 in MLA?
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KarelXWB
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting texl1649 (Reply 9):
I really do think the rolls engine arrangement/service structure is a hindrance in the secondary market.

It doesn't seem to be a hindrance on other RR powered aircraft, like the A330.

On the Trent 500 I found the following:

From http://aviationweek.com/mro/airlines...lize-revenue-potential-airbus-a340

It says:

Quote:
The Rolls-Royce Trent 500 engines that power the aircraft account for half an A340’s maintenance cost. “If you can significantly improve the maintenance cost, you will definitely change the equation and make viable the extension in operating life of the airplane,” Quiros tells Aviation Week.

He draws comparisons between the out-of-production RB211 engine and the Trent 500, but he notes that unlike the RB211, the Trent 500 is “not yet a sunset engine.”
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:31 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 13):
there would be any political decision behind parking ONE A346.

You mis-understood something here.
The government does not decide which aircraft LH puts into storage- It's None of the governments friggin Business. . The government generally neglects aviation, in an Environment where Turkish and ME3 get their behinds powdered , infrastructure build up in numbers the local economy cannot sustain and in a time where in Germany the public planning Appeals would be still down the road, not talking about completion.

That could explain why LH stores 4 A360s. Their Long time planning has become obsolete. My opinion,, Quote me wrong if you can.
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SQ325
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:11 pm

We don' t have the Pilots to Crew all 340s
 
stylo777
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:12 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 15):
There are 4 parked A346s at the moment.

D-AIHI in MUC
D-AIHQ
D-AIHR in MLA
D-AIHS in MLA

are the birds in MLA stored or just in for maintenance checks at LHT Malta?
 
Bluebird191
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:24 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 12):
Early-build A340-600s were heavy, negatively impacting fuel burn and range. Famous examples were the two that CX used prior to 777LR delivery. These ended up with VX, who will probably pull them from the fleet first, if they haven't already.

Are you sure CX took delivery of the 777LR, and VX the A346? Neither of these airlines have operated the type, VX never a widebody.
 
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AA777223
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:23 pm

CX never order the 77L, and I think he is referring to VS.
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wingflex744
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:28 pm

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 23):
Are you sure CX took delivery of the 777LR, and VX the A346? Neither of these airlines have operated the type, VX never a widebody

he probably meant the 77Ws...
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rlwynn
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:38 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 4):
Why send D-AIHQ, when D-AIHA is older?

Then it will be newer when they start using again.
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TheRedBaron
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:10 pm

If Engines are 50% if the A346 operating cost, we could conclude that what killed the A346 and A345 is not the airframe per se against the 777, but its operating expenses due to maintenance of its engines… interesting, since the economics for the airframe put it better light than a 744 and close to the 777, but heck, I guess we could rage RASM CASM COST and CAPEX, but in the end the sole maintenance of the engines could kill a perfectly economic aircraft..

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LAX772LR
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RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:12 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 12):
These ended up with VX

VX never had a widebody.
They went to HU from CX.

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Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 23):
Are you sure CX took delivery of the 777LR, and VX the A346? Neither of these airlines have operated the type, VX never a widebody.
Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 23):
CX never order the 77L, and I think he is referring to VS.

You guys should pay closer attention, he said 777LR (which is technically correct) not 77L:
  • 77L = 777-200LR
  • 777LR = 77L, 77W, 77F family, as per Boeing.
  • I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
     
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    ADent
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    RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

    Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:35 am

    There are only 83 frames using the RR500 in service (per Wiki), so less frames to spread costs (and profits) across.

    RR did make a commitment last year to get A340-600 engine costs to be same as 777-300ER engine costs.
     
    AirbusOnly
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    RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

    Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:54 am

    Quoting flyinTLow (Reply 16):

    Not quite true, at least D-AIHI is just flying ICN-MUC as LH 719
     
    LHLX
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    RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

    Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:18 am

    So if all the 340-600s will be MUC based....what will happen to the 346s routes that LH operates from FRA?
    IKA and BOG come to mind, are there any others? Wasn't one of the BOS or NYC flights from FRA also with 346s?
     
    flyinTLow
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    RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

    Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:44 am

    Quoting LHLX (Reply 31):

    BOG will be served with Airbus A343 (yes, not the smartest idea), and IKA I think will be moved to 744.
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    RRTrent
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    RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

    Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:44 am

    Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 10):
    I wonder if technical support will include accelerated re-fleeting of IR with surplus LH A346s?

    Dont IR already have some ex LH 343's?

    I don't think this is the reason one has been parked, but there is precedent for IR getting old LH frames. AFAIK the 343's flown by IR still have the LH interior in them.
     
    330lover
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    RE: LH Puts A340-600 Into Storage

    Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:16 am

    Quoting RRTrent (Reply 32):
    Dont IR already have some ex LH 343's?

    It's Mahan Air who got some ex-LH birds.
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