March Madness Flights 2016

Cubsrule · Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:47 pm

It's that time of year again. With the NCAA basketball tournament comes a massive, difficult charter mess. Games start tomorrow, and some teams are therefore flying today. In recent years, most of the majors have drastically reduced their NCAA charter work, leaving most flights to charter operators. At least so far, that pattern continues this year. Here are the flights for tomorrow's games:

Florida Gulf Coast: LL 738 RSW-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...1/history/20160314/1430Z/KRSW/KDAY
Farleigh Dickinson: LL 738 EWR-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...2/history/20160314/1400Z/KEWR/KDAY

Vanderilt: 7Q CR2 BNA-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M...8/history/20160314/1800Z/KBNA/KDAY
Wichita State: LL 738 ICT-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...3/history/20160314/1530Z/KICT/KDAY

910A · Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:27 pm

I thought Miami Air was GL not LL. Am I wrong?

Factor in the women's tourney some flights are going to have some strange timings.

IMissPiedmont · Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:05 am

A Delta 757 appeared in Tucson as I was leaving work this afternoon. I don't know which team it was though.

[Edited 2016-03-14 19:07:18]

Well that was silly of me, I assumed it was bringing a team in but Tucson has no games this year, it was to pickup the U of A to deliver them to their doom.

[Edited 2016-03-14 19:20:26]

910A · Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:31 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 2):

A Delta 757 appeared in Tucson as I was leaving work this afternoon. I don't know which team it was though.

[Edited 2016-03-14 19:07:18]

Well that was silly of me, I assumed it was bringing a team in but Tucson has no games this year, it was to pickup the U of A to deliver them to their doom.

[Edited 2016-03-14 19:20:26]

Except the plane went to SLC as #8847 and the basketball team doesn't play until Thursday in Rhode Island.

FlyingJhawk · Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:39 am

So Wichita State charters a 737-800 and Vandy a measly CRJ-200? Are the Vandy alums so well-to-do they just charter their own bizjets?

dsuairptman · Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:17 am

Gonzaga and Baylor are both flying G4 to the first round.

Cubsrule · Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:48 pm

Quoting FlyingJhawk (Reply 4):
So Wichita State charters a 737-800 and Vandy a measly CRJ-200?

The NCAA arranges and pays for most of the charters. The likely explanation is that the Vandy band and cheerleaders are driving, while the other teams' bands and cheerleaders need to fly because of the distance. Thus, they need larger aircraft.

Rbgso · Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:29 pm

The CRJ200 is torture for a normal sized person. I can't imagine how cramped the teams feel in that thing, unless it is a lower density layout. Of course, it is only a 50 minute flight....

IMissPiedmont · Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:38 pm

Quoting 910A (Reply 3):

I see that, how odd.

us330 · Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:34 pm

I'd be curious to see how many teams don't have to use a charter to get their first round locale.

I can think of at least two right now: Oklahoma (Oklahoma City); Yale (Providence is less than a 2 hour drive from New Haven).

us330 · Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:39 pm

To complete the list: UNC (Raleigh); Villanova and Temple (Brooklyn).

Several schools could possibly bus, but probably unlikely (Texas and Texas A&M at Oklahoma City; Michigan at Dayton).

Cubsrule · Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 10):
Several schools could possibly bus, but probably unlikely (Texas and Texas A&M at Oklahoma City; Michigan at Dayton).

The line--which is fairly hard but not airtight--is 350 miles.

ATAIndy · Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:17 pm

Purdue: SY 738 LAF-DEN http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX8621

KBUF · Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:42 pm

Buffalo: WQ 733 BUF-PVD: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...7/history/20160315/1600Z/KBUF/KPVD

JohnGalt · Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:51 pm

Pitt is supposed to be flying out of PIT to STL on Thursday night. Carrier unknown.

[Edited 2016-03-15 11:51:32]

FlyingJhawk · Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:23 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 9):

I suspect my beloved Jayhawks will bus their way to Des Moines since it's only about a 3.5 hour drive.

teneriffe77 · Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:55 am

As far as the women's games in SYR only Florida is going to have to fly as SU is hosting and Army and Albany are driving. On the men's side SU is flying to STL to play Dayton

96texan · Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:25 am

Tulsa: GL 738 TUL-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...5/history/20160314/2200Z/KTUL/KDAY

Cubsrule · Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:24 am

Cubsrule · Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:32 am

Wednesday Games:

Holy Cross: LL 738 ORH-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...6/history/20160314/1915Z/KORH/KDAY
Southern: LL 738 BTR-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...4/history/20160314/2030Z/KBTR/KDAY

Michigan: Driving to Dayton
Tulsa: LL 738 TUL-DAY http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...5/history/20160314/2200Z/KTUL/KDAY

Cubsrule · Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:26 pm

Tuesday games:

Florida Gulf Coast: LL 738 DAY-RDU http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...9/history/20160316/0345Z/KDAY/KRDU
Farleigh Dickinson: LL 738 DAY-EWR http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...2/history/20160316/1400Z/KDAY/KEWR

Wichita State: LL 738 DAY-PVD http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...0/history/20160316/0600Z/KDAY/KPVD
Vanderbilt: Driving? I can't find a flight.

JohnGalt · Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:49 am

Quoting JohnGalt (Reply 14):
Pitt is supposed to be flying out of PIT to STL on Thursday night. Carrier unknown.

Correction. Pitt left tonight on G4.

G4 4451 PIT-STL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20160316/2100Z/KPIT/KSTL

KBUF · Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:18 am

Syracuse: XP 738 SYR-STL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...6/history/20160316/1800Z/KSYR/KSTL

Cubsrule · Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:20 am

wjcandee · Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:14 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):
In recent years, most of the majors have drastically reduced their NCAA charter work, leaving most flights to charter operators.

That's interesting. My impression was that the number of ad-hoc charter operators has declined precipitously in the past few years, leaving the NCAA to charter from the scheduled carriers. One year, Allegiant had a lot of the business, but then they cut back on the number of a/c that they made available for charter.

The NCAA charter office spends a lot of time working this all out. I imagine that the only reason they are going to CRJs is that Elite Airways has some aircraft that aren't being fully-utilized, and they are a Part 121 carrier, if a little-known, kind-of-adrift-routewise one.

It says something about the situation at Orange Air that they don't seem to have picked up a single charter in a fairly-tight mainline-aircraft charter market. Out of all these guys, Miami Air is probably the highest-quality provider (along with Sun Country, but they are different models). Stands to reason they are getting what seems to be about as much business as they can handle.

[Edited 2016-03-16 22:32:17]

[Edited 2016-03-16 22:32:50]

Cubsrule · Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:48 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 24):
My impression was that the number of ad-hoc charter operators has declined precipitously in the past few years, leaving the NCAA to charter from the scheduled carriers. One year, Allegiant had a lot of the business, but then they cut back on the number of a/c that they made available for charter.

It seems clear to me--although I admit that I do not know for sure--that carriers like Miami Air and Allegiant block a significant amount of aircraft time ahead of time for these movements. Allegiant's low utilization gives them ad-hoc-like aircraft availability in the sense that their scheduled flying does not keep their fleet that busy.

Lately (and entirely so far this year), the legacies seem mostly limited to flights between cities they serve where they have the aircraft anyway.

Wednesday games:

Holy Cross: LL 738 DAY-GEG http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...3/history/20160317/0345Z/KDAY/KGEG
Southern: LL 738 DAY-BTR http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...5/history/20160317/1430Z/KDAY/KBTR

Michigan: LL 738 DAY-LGA http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...4/history/20160317/0600Z/KDAY/KLGA
Tulsa: SY 738 DAY-TUL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...5/history/20160317/1300Z/KDAY/KTUL

aloha73g · Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:05 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
Hawaii: G4 752 HNL-LAX-GEG http://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=PHNL&destination=klax (I'm not sure about this one, but I can find no other possible flight)

The Hawaii Men's team stayed in the LA area after the Big West Tournament. The Women's team returned to HNL on Sunday. According to local media:

Quote:
The men left Los Angeles on Tuesday for Spokane, Wash., where they will play California on Friday. The women Tuesday were awaiting confirmation that they will leave Honolulu today on a Sun Country 767 for Los Angeles, where they will play UCLA on Saturday.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports...nland-charter-flights-to-tourneys/

Though it looks like the women ended up on a narrow body of some sort: http://twitter.com/LauraBeeman/status/710210353380990976

-Aloha!

wjcandee · Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:20 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 25):
It seems clear to me--although I admit that I do not know for sure--that carriers like Miami Air and Allegiant block a significant amount of aircraft time ahead of time for these movements.

I'm sure that the NCAA books as far ahead as possible, and that these carriers know well in advance that they will be called upon during this multi-week period. I don't know what Allegiant's current charter availablility is, but I recall a few years ago that they said they were cutting back on charter (perhaps temporarily) to focus on sked service reliability. Remember that they had a bit of a pilot shortage at one point.

wjcandee · Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:27 pm

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 26):
they will leave Honolulu today on a Sun Country 767 for Los Angeles,

That was a quote from the Star Advertiser. Their reporter was able to figure out how many pax a 767 carries, and talks about how the team can't sell seats on the charter, blah-blah.

What he wasn't able to figure out was that Sun Country doesn't have 767s.

wjcandee · Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:43 pm

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 26):
Though it looks like the women ended up on a narrow body of some sort:

I'm guessing you went looking for the "Sun Country 767" and didn't find it. Or a Sun Country 738.

That photo looks like the interior of the Allegiant 757s. I'm guessing they went out on an Allegiant 752.

aloha73g · Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:25 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 29):
I'm guessing you went looking for the "Sun Country 767" and didn't find it.

Nope, I went to the UH WBB coaches twitter and found that pic. I assumed that the G4 752 I quoted flew the UH staff, WBB team, band and cheerleaders to LA, where half of them got off for the WBB game. The Men's team got on and flew to GEG with the other half of the staff, cheerleaders, band, etc.

-Aloha!

bjorn14 · Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):

Did Colorado drive to DSM? What did UConn fly?

wjcandee · Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:14 am

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 30):
I assumed that the G4 752 I quoted flew the UH staff, WBB team, band and cheerleaders to LA, where half of them got off for the WBB game.

Got it. There was one on Wednesday morning, flight 4051, which is consistent with the timing expected in the article and the timing of the photo. Maybe that's what was quoted; the link produced a list. But 4051 seems to fit. And that's almost-definitely an Allegiant 757 interior in the photo.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20160316/2100Z/PHNL/KLAX

[Edited 2016-03-17 17:16:20]

Cubsrule · Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:42 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 31):
Did Colorado drive to DSM? What did UConn fly?

I missed a game--sorry about that.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 27):
I'm sure that the NCAA books as far ahead as possible, and that these carriers know well in advance that they will be called upon during this multi-week period. I don't know what Allegiant's current charter availablility is, but I recall a few years ago that they said they were cutting back on charter (perhaps temporarily) to focus on sked service reliability.

One area where I think this shows up is departure times. Some of yesterday's losers left mid- to late afternoon today. Five or 10 years ago, virtually everyone went from their game to the airport.

wjcandee · Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:34 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
One area where I think this shows up is departure times. Some of yesterday's losers left mid- to late afternoon today. Five or 10 years ago, virtually everyone went from their game to the airport.

Good point. There was some static about this from some of the teams in the last couple of years. Now, they understand that it is the norm. Frankly, it cuts the costs to the NCAA if the teams can meet the optimal schedule of the aircraft, rather than vice versa.

IPFreely · Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:15 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 31):
Did Colorado drive to DSM?

Sun Country 737:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...4/history/20160316/0000Z/KDEN/KDSM

bjorn14 · Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:29 pm

I am actually surprised CU uses DEN when BJC is 15 minutes away and can handle a 737/320.

Cubsrule · Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 36):
I am actually surprised CU uses DEN when BJC is 15 minutes away and can handle a 737/320.

This is a trend that has changed some in the past 5 or 10 years too. There are a number of schools that are closer to smaller airports, some of which can and do support mainline narrowbodies. Davidson (JQF, which has G4 service, versus CLT) and Austin Peay (CKV versus BNA) are other good examples. The line today seems to be somewhere around 50 or 60 miles, and is somewhat school-specific. In Nashville, for instance, Austin Peay and Middle Tennessee State generally use BNA, while Western Kentucky, which is just a hair further, uses BWG. "Major" airports seem to have become more popular over time.

The least isolated "big name" schools that consistently use their home airports despite a lack of commercial service seem to be Indiana (BMG), Purdue (LAF) and Oklahoma State (SWO). Schools with airports with a few RJ flights per day like Texas A&M (CLL) and Waco (ACT) use those airports consistently too.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 34):
There was some static about this from some of the teams in the last couple of years. Now, they understand that it is the norm. Frankly, it cuts the costs to the NCAA if the teams can meet the optimal schedule of the aircraft, rather than vice versa.

I think the other area in which this shows up is the tendency of the majors to fly only charters that make sense in their networks. The DL 738, which probably sits idle all day normally, flying West Virginia home from LGA this morning is a perfect example.

Friday Losers:

Dayton: Driving

North Carolina-Asheville: G4 320 JFK-AVL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...3/history/20160319/0025Z/KJFK/KAVL

Oregon State: SY 738 OKC-EUG http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...5/history/20160319/0300Z/KOKC/KEUG (having to fly back to enemy territory must have hurt double)

California: G4 319 GEG-OAK http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...2/history/20160319/0100Z/KGEG/KOAK

Michigan State: DL 738 STL-LAN http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...5/history/20160319/0230Z/KSTL/KLAN

Temple: Driving

California State-Bakersfield: WN 73G OKC-BFL http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...6/history/20160319/0300Z/KOKC/KBFL

South Dakota State: WQ 734 GEG-FSD http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...9/history/20160319/0500Z/KGEG/KFSD

Wisconsin: Driving

West Virginia: DL 738 LGA-CKB http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...6/history/20160319/1400Z/KLGA/KCKB

Wisconsin-Green Bay: WN 73G OKC-GRB http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...8/history/20160319/1500Z/KOKC/KGRB

Holy Cross: G4 M83 GEG-FAR-ORH (?) http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAY4522

Weber State: EA 738 DEN-OGD http://flightaware.com/live/flight/E...1/history/20160316/1310Z/KDEN/KOGD

Texas: World Atlantic M83 OKC-AUS http://flightaware.com/live/flight/W...1/history/20160319/1600Z/KOKC/KAUS (new operator)

Michigan: Ameristar M83 LGA-YIP http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...1/history/20160319/1300Z/KLGA/KYIP

Cincinnati: WN 73G GEG-CVG http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8067

chrisair · Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
Arizona: ? PVD-TUS

World Atlantic: PVD-RDF-TUS.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/W...0/history/20160318/1730Z/KRFD/KTUS

After the way Arizona played, they deserved to make a fuel stop. Shoulda been relegated to a CR2.

Cubsrule · Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:22 pm

teneriffe77 · Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:03 am

SU Men after beating Middle Tennessee in STL XP 738 STL-SYR http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CXP758

teneriffe77 · Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:10 am

Florida State Women on Saturday mourning after losing to UALB the day before:
World Atlantic M83 SYR-GNV http://flightaware.com/live/flight/W...3/history/20160319/1300Z/KSYR/KGNV

bjorn14 · Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:59 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 37):

SWO will be getting AA Eagle service to DFW in August.

Cubsrule · Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:35 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 42):
SWO will be getting AA Eagle service to DFW in August.

Freshside3 · Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:02 pm

Any charters for fan groups??

Cubsrule · Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:54 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 44):
Any charters for fan groups??

Fan charters are unusual in the first weekend--most teams that would likely need them are close to home.

Thursday Games:

Miami: SY 738 MIA-SDF
Villanova: Elite CR2 PHL-SDF (? - perhaps with some commercial service this is all that was needed, but this is a pretty long flight for this small an aircraft in the Sweet 16)

Kansas: WQ 733 FOE-SDF http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...2/history/20160322/1900Z/KFOE/KSDF
Maryland: SY 738 BWI-SDF http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...1/history/20160323/1400Z/KBWI/KSDF

Oklahoma: XP 738 OKC-LGB http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...8/history/20160322/1930Z/KOKC/KLGB
Texas A&M: EA 738 CLL-LGB http://flightaware.com/live/flight/E...0/history/20160322/2230Z/KCLL/KLGB

Duke: ?
Oregon: SY 738 EUG-LGB http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...4/history/20160323/0110Z/KEUG/KLGB

Rbgso · Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:04 pm

Thanks for the hard work, Cubsrule.

I'd be interested to know the interior config of the Elite CR2. Perhaps it is an executive seating arrangement instead of the usual 50 seats.

[Edited 2016-03-23 11:04:48]

Cubsrule · Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:09 pm

Quoting Rbgso (Reply 46):
Thanks for the hard work, Cubsrule.

threeifbyair · Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:04 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 47):
Syracuse: DL 738 SYR-MDW

Saw this one on the ramp at SYR this afternoon. It was also on the departure screens, oddly.

I was surprised to see DL doing some charter work.

Can't find anything on Duke, except that they arrived on Monday night according to their website.

wjcandee · Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:25 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 47):
(it's interesting that one SY flight went to MDW and the other to ORD)

Actually, it's interesting that two flights went to MDW and two to ORD. Maybe something to do with the location of the hotels at which they are staying? (Perhaps something operationally for the airline, even with the same carrier going to "Chicago", but I think the customer's needs may enter into it here as well...)

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