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mercure1
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TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:35 pm

Reported that TAM has sold 4 A330 aircraft and 14 engines to VAS Aero Services.

Aircraft will be moved to Tarbes France for teardown.

http://mro-network.com/news/2016/03/vas-buy-four-a330s-latam/8881

Per LATAM end of 2015 financial reports they planned to phase out all remainder 10 A330s fleet in 2016.
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jfk777
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:47 pm

Is there no demand for 4 A330-200 Pratt powered planes ? Or are these planes just in bad "Pan AM" condition no one wants them. Delta has Pratt A330 they could use them ?
 
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Polot
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:07 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
Is there no demand for 4 A330-200 Pratt powered planes ? Or are these planes just in bad "Pan AM" condition no one wants them. Delta has Pratt A330 they could use them ?

Looking at airfleets it looks like they date from 2005-2010 (TAM appears to only have 4 owned A330s, 2 currently stored, with the rest leased). A330 parts are no doubt in high demand right now so scrappers are willing to put in competitive offers.

I'm not sure DL wants anything A332 sized right now- all their Airbus widebodies on order are A333/A339 size or larger, and the 788s are deferred to 2020. Also despite the whole DL loving used planes thing they haven't bought used widebodies and put them in service in almost 20 years.
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:11 pm

With the A330s leaving and none on order, will they be replacing the A330s with A350s?
@DadCelo
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:12 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
Is there no demand for 4 A330-200 Pratt powered planes ?

Those A332s are 17 years old, I suppose the recycled parts have a higher value than selling or leasing the plane.

Quoting Polot (Reply 2):
Looking at airfleets it looks like they date from 2005-2010

I believe those planes are older, PT-MVC and PT-MVD were delivered in 1998/1999.
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KarelXWB
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:13 pm

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 3):
With the A330s leaving and none on order, will they be replacing the A330s with A350s?

TAM and LAN are merging into LATAM, and LAN has 787s that can replace the A332s.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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mercure1
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:18 pm

Also remember with terrible economic news from Brazil, LATAM is cutting its Brazilian capacity further in 2016 in addition to the 9% they cut in 2015.
All said and done LATAM says its Brazil capacity will be down virtually 25% by late 2016 compared to 2014 levels.
As routes and frequencies are dropped, they simply don't need as many frames including longhaul.
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gatibosgru
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:24 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):

TAM and LAN are merging into LATAM, and LAN has 787s that can replace the A332s.

Will the 787s also be replacing the 763s?
@DadCelo
 
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Polot
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:25 pm

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 3):
With the A330s leaving and none on order, will they be replacing the A330s with A350s?
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
TAM and LAN are merging into LATAM, and LAN has 787s that can replace the A332s.

More specifically, right now LAN has been shifting over a lot of 767s to TAM to replace the A332s as they get 787s. The capacity of the two (763 & A332) is virtually the same since LATAM is getting rid of F class (only on the remaining A332s now). I don't think LAN/TAM are merging into one airline per se versus being one brand (but still technically two airlines due to bilateral reasons) so 787s would still be technically separate unless given to TAM.


TAM's A359s seat about 120 seats more the A332s, they are not acting as replacements- the A359s are bridging the gap between the 763 and the 77W where TAM has had nothing ever since they got rid of the A345s/MD-11s.

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 7):
Will the 787s also be replacing the 763s?

Long term probably, but most of the 767s are quite young (less than 5years old).

[Edited 2016-03-16 08:26:58]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:27 pm

Wow...A332s,A333s, 77Es, 773 (non-ER) as well as less desirable frames being scrapped.

My hypothesis:
1. -ve interest rate incentivise to buy new.
2. Banks hesitate to loan on 10+ year old airframes.
3. The ongoing seat & fitting shortage makes reconfiguration a challenge.
4. New planes are so much more efficient (including A333IGW).

I'm curious to see how the 2nd hand 77W develops..

Lightsaber
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:39 pm

TAM was launch customer for the A330-200
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:59 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 10):
TAM was launch customer for the A330-200

Was ONE of the launch customers. First operator was Canada 3000 with leased aircraft from first customer ILFC.

This is JJ 's current A332s, including the two GE-powered stored since sometimes in 2015. I guess the first two PW-powered and the two stored are those leaving the fleet.

http://www.planespotters.net/product...rbus&type=A330&fleetStatus=current
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:17 pm

Why is DL the defacto name that is thrown around when somebody is looking to get rid of frame either organically or through age?
Vahroone
 
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United787
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:23 pm

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 12):

Why is DL the defacto name that is thrown around when somebody is looking to get rid of frame either organically or through age?

Because they are one of the largest airlines in the world and they have shown a pattern lately of purchasing used aircraft...more so than any of the large airlines...
 
jr1914
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:03 pm

Few reasons of that

- LATAM Group have received several 767-787 since a couple os years that could easily replace them.
- Quite old configuration and quick refurbishment needed
- Fuel efficiency (believe it or not we haven't seen fuel drops on pump even BRL0,10 cents!!!)
- 350's operarions launching soon.
- Weak demand on long hauls (BRL devaluation a negative GDP)

There might be few other internal reasons that I could think of (but not say!)
 
ScottB
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:20 pm

Quoting jr1914 (Reply 14):
believe it or not we haven't seen fuel drops on pump even BRL0,10 cents!!!

But gasoline in Brazil was subsidized by Petrobras for many years and the decline in dollar-denominated oil prices has come at the same time as a decline in the value of the Brazilian real against the dollar.

Quoting Polot (Reply 2):
I'm not sure DL wants anything A332 sized right now- all their Airbus widebodies on order are A333/A339 size or larger, and the 788s are deferred to 2020.

Plus the new HGW A333s coming in can probably do any route an older A332 can do at a modest incremental trip cost.
 
VC10er
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:34 pm

I have heard that their 767's are quite nice inside. That they feel very NEW.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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Polot
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:41 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 16):
I have heard that their 767's are quite nice inside. That they feel very NEW.

That is because they are new. Other than a 1997 and a 1998 build, they were built in 2012-2013, and of course a 767 cabin with the signature interior is a very nice place to be.
 
UA444
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:46 pm

Many LAN 767s are newer than 787s and even some of the 787s they themselves have.
 
jr1914
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:08 pm

ScottB -

Yes, you are right but let me show you a bit of this particular country.

Petrobras (government) used to subsidized gas on pump for vehicles not aviation fuel. You all know Brazil is no self-sufficient on any kind of oil derivative so we import a big part of what is consumed here (purchased in U$) and on its calculation formula they for airlines are based in dollars that raised more than 55% since a year and a half ago. On a net this 55% increased of U$ pretty much reset the more than 60% of oil drops and this benefit airlines worldwide are having since a year and a half ago did not showed up down here.

Airlines are lobbing with the government to reduce this dollar index on the kerosene and few other taxes but Brasilia been stopped lately.
 
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:38 pm

I am surprised they are being sold for scrap. Even if an airline did not want to operate them as pax aircraft, conversion to a freighter would be the logical move.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:45 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 20):
I am surprised they are being sold for scrap. Even if an airline did not want to operate them as pax aircraft, conversion to a freighter would be the logical move.

What matters most? Money or other options?
 
OB1504
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:51 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 20):
I am surprised they are being sold for scrap. Even if an airline did not want to operate them as pax aircraft, conversion to a freighter would be the logical move.

Can a pax A330 currently be converted to a freighter? I thought all A330Fs were new builds with modifications like the bulge for the nose gear.
 
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Polot
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:57 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 22):
Can a pax A330 currently be converted to a freighter? I thought all A330Fs were new builds with modifications like the bulge for the nose gear.

There is an A330 P2F program ongoing. None of been completed and certified yet though. They are also starting with the A333 before the A332.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:04 pm

Converting old A330-200s into freighters is not something that is worth the cost of the conversion when the A330-300 would be available.
Also, the ONLY reason that Delta has the A300-200 is that they came from Northwest which was acquired by Delta. In fact I was at a meeting when Richard told me that he was ordering the A330-200s. So blame Richard for Delta's ownership of the A330-200.   
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:35 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 24):
Also, the ONLY reason that Delta has the A300-200 is that they came from Northwest which was acquired by Delta. In fact I was at a meeting when Richard told me that he was ordering the A330-200s. So blame Richard for Delta's ownership of the A330-200.

IIRC, NW converted existing A330-300 orders to the -200 series. From what I have heard they are pleased with the aircraft and it fills a unique niche in the system. It was a great airplane for AMS-BOM and does well on west cost to Asia flights where you don't need the extra 50 seats.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:14 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
My hypothesis:
1. -ve interest rate incentivise to buy new.
2. Banks hesitate to loan on 10+ year old airframes.
3. The ongoing seat & fitting shortage makes reconfiguration a challenge.
4. New planes are so much more efficient (including A333IGW).

5. We're all just getting old
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:42 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 25):

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 24):
Also, the ONLY reason that Delta has the A300-200 is that they came from Northwest which was acquired by Delta. In fact I was at a meeting when Richard told me that he was ordering the A330-200s. So blame Richard for Delta's ownership of the A330-200.

IIRC, NW converted existing A330-300 orders to the -200 series. From what I have heard they are pleased with the aircraft and it fills a unique niche in the system. It was a great airplane for AMS-BOM and does well on west cost to Asia flights where you don't need the extra 50 seats.

You are correct. They offered a better range than the A330-300.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
prebennorholm
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:02 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 22):
Can a pax A330 currently be converted to a freighter? I thought all A330Fs were new builds with modifications like the bulge for the nose gear.

A330s are being converted to freighters at Elbe Flugzeug Werke in Dresden, Germany, based on design by ST Aerospace in Singapore.

The first one, an A333 from Malaysia, is scheduled to be ready next year, first A332 in 2018.

They are not straight conversions to A332F, but rather conversions done the most economic and practical way.

It seems like the longer nose wheel of the A332F will not be part of the A332P2F / A333P2F conversion.
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Pellegrine
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:52 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 24):
Converting old A330-200s into freighters is not something that is worth the cost of the conversion when the A330-300 would be available.
Also, the ONLY reason that Delta has the A300-200 is that they came from Northwest which was acquired by Delta. In fact I was at a meeting when Richard told me that he was ordering the A330-200s. So blame Richard for Delta's ownership of the A330-200.

NW got those aircraft so cheaply in any case, it would hardly matter...one of the cheapest widebody deals in aviation history.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:35 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 25):
From what I have heard they are pleased with the aircraft and it fills a unique niche in the system. It was a great airplane for AMS-BOM and does well on west cost to Asia flights where you don't need the extra 50 seats.

Weren't they ordered as the perfect replacement for the DC-10-30?
 
rg787
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RE: TAM Sells 4 A330s For Scrap

Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:03 pm

Quoting jr1914 (Reply 19):
ScottB -

Yes, you are right but let me show you a bit of this particular country.

Petrobras (government) used to subsidized gas on pump for vehicles not aviation fuel. You all know Brazil is no self-sufficient on any kind of oil derivative so we import a big part of what is consumed here (purchased in U$) and on its calculation formula they for airlines are based in dollars that raised more than 55% since a year and a half ago. On a net this 55% increased of U$ pretty much reset the more than 60% of oil drops and this benefit airlines worldwide are having since a year and a half ago did not showed up down here.

Airlines are lobbing with the government to reduce this dollar index on the kerosene and few other taxes but Brasilia been stopped lately.

While this is in fact a point, I believe it doesn't matter all that much right now. Others will be able to explain better, but it is my understanding that airlines buy oil before hand, similar to the way enterprises negotiate dollars on Bovespa. This being told, the oil being used today was probably bought years ago, at least that is what I understood in those Delta refineries threads.

Also, I can think of at least two states that lowered the ICMS (the tax paid in fuel). One of them is Distrito Federal, which TAM is using as a hub right now.

I think your other points are more important in this matter.

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