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77west
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Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:05 pm

Didnt see anything RE this incident:

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/...-flight/ar-BBqwUhN?ocid=spartandhp

Any info on how these airbags are supposed to work?
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tonystan
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:35 pm

First important lesson of life learnt at an early age.....sh1t happens!
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Aesma
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:12 am

I think there are now restrictions with these airbags and children, unless they have been redesigned since then ?

Reading the article makes me hope the mother is lying, if not then it seems like instead of helping their child forget about an accident, they made things worse. Nothing wrong with getting money from the airline's insurance but I'm guessing if it took 4 years to get a settlement, then they were asking for millions.
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nikeherc
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:50 am

It it would seem that airbags are being used to allow airlines to cram ever more seats in their planes. Certainly this is true in the economy cabin where they may be used to meet safety requirements when seats are placed closer to bulkheads. They are also used to allow nested seating in premium cabins. I haven't heard of an airline airbag saving anyone from injury, and this may only be the first reported injury caused by an airbag improperly deploying. Wouldn't it be better just to put the seats farther apart?
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cosyr
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:21 pm

I've heard of these in the first rows of economy, but the airlines that have them in J have them in every seat. How would they place a restriction on children in J? I wouldn't think the FA's could just switch them, because they have to click in in a more complicated way than regular belts, perhaps even wired? Does anyone have any pictures of them or knowledge of how they work? Is it significantly different than how car bags work?

What sets them off, because it can't be impact related the way a car's sensors work? Could a wiggling child (or adult) trick them into thinking there's an accident occurring?

[Edited 2016-03-18 06:22:51]
 
smi0006
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:10 am

I'm sorry but I think the mother is over the top- she now has psychological issues, really? What if she fell and broke her arm and grazed her face on a bike? She wouldn't be able to sleep for months either? Sorry that's pathetic.

Devastatingly injured? The scars healed, maybe I'm tough but a burns victim, a paraplegic, or rape victim are devistating injuries.

The little girl has my sympathies and no one ever wants to see a child hurt! I think Virgin should have paid up as they did it was shameful what happened. But the mothers attitude will be more damaging to the child than the event, she should teach her daughter strength and resilience not pandering drama to get what you want.
 
LandSweetLand
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:56 am

Quoting cosyr (Reply 4):
Does anyone have any pictures of them or knowledge of how they work? Is it significantly different than how car bags work?

This is what the Cathay ones look like

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Airplane_Airbag_Cathay_Pacific_Airbus_A330.jpg/1200px-Airplane_Airbag_Cathay_Pacific_Airbus_A330.jpg
By Captainm - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=13420727



and here's how they spring up
https://i0.wp.com/www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Airbag-2.jpg?zoom=2&resize=830%2C431&ssl=1
https://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/2014/01/27/why-airbags-are-being-used-in-aircraft-seats/

Video of the AmSafe (not sure if these are the ones Virgin use) is here



[Edited 2016-03-19 00:59:24]
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:15 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 5):
I'm sorry but I think the mother is over the top- she now has psychological issues, really? What if she fell and broke her arm and grazed her face on a bike? She wouldn't be able to sleep for months either? Sorry that's pathetic.

Devastatingly injured? The scars healed, maybe I'm tough but a burns victim, a paraplegic, or rape victim are devistating injuries.

It's totally plausible. This would have been a very traumatic and drawn out experience. A graze is sorted out in mins and a broken arm stops hurting in an hour or two. From the pictures there was some nasty bruising and burns to sensitive skin around the face.

It has nothing to do with 'being tough' whatever that means. The poor kid will likely learn to live with it in time but it is still a traumatic and painful set of injuries.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:33 pm

Quoting 77west (Thread starter):
Any info on how these airbags are supposed to work?
http://www.wsj.com/public/article/SB...6DeZkLsJoE_20061123.html?mod=blogs
 
OMP777X
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:51 pm

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 7):
It's totally plausible. This would have been a very traumatic and drawn out experience. A graze is sorted out in mins and a broken arm stops hurting in an hour or two. From the pictures there was some nasty bruising and burns to sensitive skin around the face.

I think it is also very plausible for a number of reasons. This was likely more traumatic for her then a blow to her arm due to the airbag inflating unexpectedly and very quickly, and the fact that it hit her in the face. That would've been a very shocking thing to experience at any age since you wouldn't understand what had happened, so it would likely even stun an adult if it happened to them. Now here it happened to a child who is much smaller and too young to understand what an airbag is, or why there's one buried inside her seatbelt on the big scary airplane. After having survived a traumatic head injury myself and having to go to trial in order to prove the extent of damages in my case, I'm guessing the family decided to take the money and move on since she healed up relatively quickly. In my case I have permanent damage, and needed to be compensated for future medical care that the insurance company didn't want to pay (what a surprise).

The important thing here is that the airline sort out the equipment that malfunctioned so that the big inflating bag thingys don't whack another poor person in the face. That thing could've given her whiplash or hurt her worse than it did. The manufacturer and the airline are lucky this incident wasn't worse. This is something that they definitely don't ever want to have a repeat incident with.


Best,

OMP777X

[Edited 2016-03-19 12:52:59]

[Edited 2016-03-19 12:53:20]

[Edited 2016-03-19 12:57:17]

[Edited 2016-03-19 13:00:10]
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77west
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:56 pm

I was just thinking for passengers in a bulkhead row, would it not be safer to install the bags on the bulkhead itself, rather than the seatbelt?
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prebennorholm
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:13 am

More airbag accidents, one of them fatal....

http://www.seattletimes.com/business...oeing-jets-have-workers-concerned/

Wonder what will be the next "invention" in order to squeeze in another seat?
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:40 am

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 3):
It it would seem that airbags are being used to allow airlines to cram ever more seats in their planes. Certainly this is true in the economy cabin where they may be used to meet safety requirements when seats are placed closer to bulkheads. They are also used to allow nested seating in premium cabins. I haven't heard of an airline airbag saving anyone from injury, and this may only be the first reported injury caused by an airbag improperly deploying. Wouldn't it be better just to put the seats farther apart?
Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 11):
Wonder what will be the next "invention" in order to squeeze in another seat?

Airbag seat belts are NOT so seat pitch can be closer together as some on here may think. These are as a result of the newer 16g dynamic seat testing requirements including HIC (Head Injury Criteria). Without getting too technical, older 9g seats have always has a minimum 35" headstrike clearance arc for bulkhead rows. With the new 16g dynamic requirements and HIC, the only way to maintain this 35" minimum was to install seatbelt airbags. The airbags in economy seats are generally only at bulkhead rows and not required row to row. In addition, most newer angled business and first class seats also require seatbelt airbags to meet the newer requirements because of the angle of the seat relative to the dummy movement during forward dynamic sled testing.



Quoting 77west (Reply 10):
I was just thinking for passengers in a bulkhead row, would it not be safer to install the bags on the bulkhead itself, rather than the seatbelt?

This could be done and was proposed, but right now every configuration of seat has to be sled tested to meet the 16g requirements. If the airbags were bulkhead mounted, they have to be integrated into every other manufacturers monuments and individually tested. Also, the mechanism could not be within the 35" headstrike arc if it protruded from the wall. It was determined early on that seatbelt airbags were much easier to integrate and test.
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cosyr
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:32 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 12):
Airbag seat belts are NOT so seat pitch can be closer together as some on here may think.

I actually thought it was the opposite. They are helpful when the next seat is too far away, no?
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting cosyr (Reply 13):
I actually thought it was the opposite. They are helpful when the next seat is too far away, no?

In essence, yes when too far away, but dependent also on the seat testing of bulkhead and row to row configurations. Economy row to row usually meet without the airbags. I am uncertain about all exit row configurations as there may be some with airbags as well.

I looked at the FAA Advisory Circular and the new criteria for 16g seats at a bulkhead is 42" headstrike arc setback for economy and 45" for business/first class type seats. For those bulkhead seats, the most common way to maintain the previous 9g 35" arc is to add the airbags to meet the new HIC requirements during testing.

[Edited 2016-03-20 09:12:51]
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
Ditzyboy
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RE: Girl Injured By Airbag On VS

Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:18 pm

Cathay Pacific's much-loathed shell-type economy seats had airbags at every row. These seats were recently retired.

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