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KarelXWB
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Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:34 pm

Looks like another CSeries order is in the works, though federal government needs to relax foreign ownership rules first.

Quote:
Jetlines, a discount carrier in Richmond, British Columbia, which tries to take off for a few months, has the intention to acquire between 24 and 40 CSeries aircraft from Bombardier over a period of eight years if the federal government amends the Canada transportation for passing the limit of foreign ownership to 49% - it is currently at 25%.

Source
http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie...trangere-pour-aider-bombardier.php
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Quantos
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:45 pm

I'll believe it when I see it. There are a couple of hurdles for this to happen.

First of all of course is the modification to that foreign ownership limit. The article says an amendment to this rule has been studied since 2009, but has yet to be applied. Part of the Canadian Gov's help to BBD could be to modify this rule.

Second and probably most critical is that even if the ownership rule is modified, Canada Jetlines has to make the low cost carrier business format work in Canada, which as far as I know nobody has done so far.
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Steelhead
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:39 pm

Smells like the Porter case: "We order C-Series, if you change the rules for us". Didn't work for Porter!
 
wrongwayup
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:45 pm

Well, they'll have to figure out what to do with their Boeing order first...

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/cus...nnounces-order-for-5-737-maxs.page
 
rampbro
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:03 pm

LMAO. This is the 2nd announcement of a purchase of brand new aircraft by a company which hasn't even flown a single mile. Come on guys, April Fools is still a few weeks away.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:26 pm

Smells like a desperate attempt to change the ownership rules. What in the heck would a startup airline do with 29 aircraft, let alone 45?
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:33 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 5):
What in the heck would a startup airline do with 29 aircraft, let alone 45?

...Partially cater to some of the underserved cities across Canada?

Seriously, although I will wave my maple leaf flag high, I (like everyone else) have doubts this paper airline will ever fly.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
bmacleod
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:34 pm

Quoting wrongwayup (Reply 3):
Well, they'll have to figure out what to do with their Boeing order first...

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/cus...nnounces-order-for-5-737-maxs.page

Jetlines is another Jetsgo and Newleaf...how it will get off the ground is beyond me....that Boeing order will likely be cancelled soon WS will likely take delivery of the units.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/newleaf-transport-canada-1.3409142
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
wrongwayup
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:54 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 7):
that Boeing order will likely be cancelled soon WS will likely take delivery of the units.

Do you know something I don't?
 
bmacleod
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:05 pm

Quoting wrongwayup (Reply 8):
Do you know something I don't?

Just saying if they end up like Newleaf and don't get off the ground, they be unable to pay for the ordered aircraft and MAY have to cancel.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
sixtyseven
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:37 pm

I doubt Westjet is taking delivery of any new airframes. Unless it's a trade in type scenario.

They're busy trying to find flying for the fleet they have. The Alberta crash has hit them hard, 30% of their flying touches the province.

The domestic/transborder market is saturated if you look at trying to shift flying out of your biggest hub. The only chance they have for expansion is internationally and they've decided to jump in with both feet into Canada-London. They could expand Encore i guess.

Will the liberal govt relax foreign ownership rules for some startup on the basis of a proposed C Series order? I doubt it. If they were at all connected in Ottawa it would have already happened. Quietly.

You can say what you want about competition and such, there's plenty of lift for Canadians to fly without changing a foreign ownership rule. These start ups have been a disorganized mess. We've been hearing about them for a long time now and they've yet to do anything but trip over their own two feet.
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whywhyzee
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:10 pm

Quoting sixtyseven (Reply 10):
I doubt Westjet is taking delivery of any new airframes

I think the post was in reference to the 737 max order, which WS also has a substantial order of. With their current capacity, they are shifting a lot of it east to YYZ and now YHZ.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:23 pm

Are they trying to emulate Braniff's all-out battle following deregulation?

For the record, BN was already airborne, while closer in time, WS started small and grew slowly.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:45 am

I wonder what would happen in Canada if they did allow 49% foreign ownership? It sure has been in the news a lot.


http://www.bnn.ca/Video/player.aspx?vid=830997
 
toltommy
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:07 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 5):
Smells like a desperate attempt to change the ownership rules. What in the heck would a startup airline do with 29 aircraft, let alone 45?

It's not like they would launch with all 45 on day one. As examples, JetBlue and Virgin America both launched with bigger initial orders.
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jimbo737
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:02 am

Jetlines is a standing joke in Canada.

They've been talking the big talk for about three years now and it's amounted to absolutely nothing.

If they had:

1. A coherent plan and
2. A management team with a collective IQ north of today's temperature,

they'd have been able to raise all kinds of capital through the usual sources.

Now they are working with Konokis who's experience with successful startups and a nickel will get you 5 shiny pennies.

Konokis was the genius behind New Leaf who lasted 9 days in the market before Flair Air walked on the deal because of its inherent stupidity.

New Leaf blamed the situation on a "CTA issue" which was complete nonsense. All parties agreed to blame the CTA and let the thing drift into oblivion. New Leaf won't be heard from again. It's been almost two months. Heard any New Leaf rumors recently?

Besides, raising foreign ownership to 49% applies to all. Capital would pour in to WS and AC, resulting in an even tougher competitive landscape for any new entrant.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:16 am

Quoting rampbro (Reply 4):

LMAO. This is the 2nd announcement of a purchase of brand new aircraft by a company which hasn't even flown a single mile. Come on guys, April Fools is still a few weeks away.

I'm not holding my breath either, but it could be that they see what's been going on with BBD, the government, and Air Canada and are trying to work out something for themselves. Who knows?

-Dave
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MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:20 pm

Usually an order for brand new aircraft is placed after the airline has "proven itself" and made decent earnings.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/cus...nnounces-order-for-5-737-maxs.page

$438 million is no small number for a start-up - or let's say trying to be - so where does that financing come from?

This is WS heartland - how do they think they have a chance here?

[Edited 2016-03-18 06:23:52]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
wrongwayup
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 16):
I'm not holding my breath either, but it could be that they see what's been going on with BBD, the government, and Air Canada and are trying to work out something for themselves. Who knows?

-Dave

I'd bet money on it.
 
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yowza
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:11 pm

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 13):
I wonder what would happen in Canada if they did allow 49% foreign ownership? It sure has been in the news a lot.

To be honest with you I'm not sure much would change. If there's money to be made, those with money would find a way to structure things such that they obtained market access while being compliant to regulations. For example TUI Group owns 49% of Sunwing's parent company. I'm not sure what the voting arrangements are (I suspect TUI has 25% or less say) or sub-structures within the organization are but this goes to show you that the 25% number is more of an annoyance than an out an out show stopper.

Am I wrong?

YOWza
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:18 pm

I have the strong feeling this is a desperate push to keep a struggling launch of a new (dubious business case to me but I don't have all the facts) venture alive. Not a bad idea to make it a win win scenario for the government. It funds the start of an new business while allowing a sort of boost to Bombardier. I am still skeptical though.
 
wrongwayup
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RE: Canada Jetlines May Order Up To 40 CSeries

Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:25 pm

Quoting yowza (Reply 19):
For example TUI Group owns 49% of Sunwing's parent company. I'm not sure what the voting arrangements are (I suspect TUI has 25% or less say)

Correct. 25% voting interest, 24% non-voting interest for a total of 49% economic interest.

http://www.sunwing.ca/newsstory.asp?id=205
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ne-within-foreign-ownership-limits

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