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Pihero
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:16 pm

Quoting packsonflight (Reply 47):
I believe what people see as pre crash fire is a really condensation from the deep stalled wing.

With respect, that's wrong : *condensation* from the wing only exists if the wing is generatiung lift, i.e. with a strong depression on top. If the wing is stalled, by definition, there is no depression, hence no condensation.

What we're seeing ijhn the cctv is the landing light *burning* through the average exposure of those frames. Nothing else.
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Pihero
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:22 pm

for those interested :
-"In aviation we are faced with the combination of rapid acceleration and reduced/no visual cues (i.e. IMC and/or night flying). As we no longer have the benefit of our visual system to resolve the ambiguity, our brain uses the signals it is receiving and interprets them as a ‘tilt’. The net result is a tilt back (i.e. pitching up) sensation under acceleration, and a tilting forward (i.e. pitching down) sensation under deceleration (Wilson, 1995 8).

Typically this occurs during the missed approach or go-around segment of a flight at night or in IMC. Speed is slow, power is rapidly applied and the aircraft then accelerates rapidly (U.S. Navy, n.d. 7). As no visual cues exist, this generates a strong ‘tilt back’ sensation which the pilot interprets (incorrectly) as a rapid pitching up sensation. Despite this perception the aircraft may still actually be in a level attitude or only a slight climb (Tait, 2003 6). This is the somatogravic illusion. The pilot will then push forward on the control column to control this (imaginary) climb thinking they are lowering the aircraft nose back to level flight, when in actual fact they are lowering the nose into a dive. As the aircraft nose lowers, the aircraft continues to accelerate, generating additional pitch up sensations, causing the pilot to lower the nose even further.
"

The above are excerpts from a short article :

Somatogravic illusions and effects on aviation
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:33 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 50):
Quoting Navigator (Reply 48):
That brings us back to the first assumption that they may have turned uside down and pulled...

I suggest you look up at what Pihero wrote about, "somatogravic illusion"... Airplanes fly with airspeed, but our biological sensors use ground speeds... as the airplane accelerated AND climbed, the senses could have been overwhelmed with a sense of excessive nose up pitch change... hence the reaction to push the yoke forward... as the nose comes down, you accelerate even faster, and push the yoke down even further... Result: disaster. It has happened, and it will happen again, unfortunately....

I saw that and I know about that too... Trouble is that this has happened too many times before. That Tatarstan 737 is another example.
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zeke
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:42 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 51):
With respect, that's wrong : *condensation* from the wing only exists if the wing is generatiung lift, i.e. with a strong depression on top. If the wing is stalled, by definition, there is no depression, hence no condensation.

An aerodynamicist would disagree with you. A stall occurs when the critical angle of attack is exceeded. When exceeding the critical angle of attack on an airfoil section the lift/curve slope decreases rapidly, however it is still generating some lift and a lot more drag. When initially exceeding the critical angle of attack of a wing, part of the wing will stall, and part of the wing will not be stalled. There is a difference when looking at the 2D (airfoil section) and 3D (wing).
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mandala499
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:03 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 53):
Trouble is that this has happened too many times before. That Tatarstan 737 is another example

It is the limitation of our biology, unfortunately...
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Classa64
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:03 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 52):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEThAV3Y2_I&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for the link, good reading.

My question though is; could all this have been avoided just by looking at there instruments?

I thought the video was from this crash, so similar.
http://avherald.com/h?article=46b9ecbc/0022&opt=7680

I guess we will know more as the facts and the boxes are released. R.I.P.
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dubaiamman243
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:03 pm

Here is a new video. you can clearly see that the aircraft WASN'T on fire before the impact and you can see that the plane was dividing into the runway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfuAJVAP0ZI&feature=youtu.be
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Pihero
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:14 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 54):
There is a difference when looking at the 2D (airfoil section) and 3D (wing).

OK. That was my observation on doing stalls / aerobatics : the lift-generating depression after the critical AoA had been reached / passed cannot be compared with the one at lower AoAs, and not a lot of condensation either.
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slvrblt
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:15 pm

Quoting dubaiamman243 (Reply 57):
ere is a new video. you can clearly see that the aircraft WASN'T on fire before the impact and you can see that the plane was dividing into the runway

Yea, that's the best view yet. All landing lights distinct and illuminated, no fire, and he's going in fast at a very sharp angle. Wow....just wow. Poor souls.
..everything works out in the end.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:17 pm

Wow. Really tough video. Very clear, nose down high sped.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:18 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 55):
Quoting Navigator (Reply 53):
Trouble is that this has happened too many times before. That Tatarstan 737 is another example

It is the limitation of our biology, unfortunately...

I agree. But with appropriate training crews can overcome these sensations and still fly the plane properly... Most crews do that very well. The aviation safety world is now discussing how to improve pilot training to avoid disasters like this that are on the increase.

Go Arounds have been a regular procedure in the whole history of aviation and the hazards have remained the same. But the discussion going on is why accidents like this during Go Arounds are on the increase. The common conclusion is that instrument flying abilities are deteriorating and creating safety hazards like this. More instrument training and more manual flying seems to be a solution.
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:18 pm

RIP to all on board.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 52):

but what about the instruments ?
 
awthompson
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:23 pm

In the camera footage shot through the trees, I believe the aircraft is quite close, ie. quite large in the field of view of the camera but since it's night we are only seeing lights and/or reflections. I think we are looking at the belly and we can see the body and/or wing root landing lights and their reflections on the two engines. At a couple of points on the few frames available before impact I believe I can see the (starboard) wing reflecting some ground light. This wing it appears is pointing skyward suggesting that the aircraft is in a steep rolled left bank, perhaps not far off ninety degrees to the horizon.

Does anyone else see it the way I see it and concur with my analysis?
 
pilotaydin
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:30 pm

just watched the video...

looks like a steep turn to the left....and serious nose down pitch.....im afraid this looks like a loss of situational awareness.....no fire no break up...

it just hit me to watch this video...hard to swallow...  
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klwright69
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:35 pm

I suggested in another thread that possibly the airport should have been closed, and I was told that clearly things weren't bad enough to close the airport and the suggestion was considered outrageous.

But when every other one of the few flights at that time were diverted, I guess we will find out why these pilots chose not to divert and pursue another landing. Maybe the crew discussed it.
 
awthompson
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:40 pm

Ref my analysis a couple of posts previous, on another version of this clip with the gain turned down a bit, I can now also see what looks like wing tip nav lights (both wings).

Ref the complete destruction of the aircraft, I believe the impact speed is very high, much higher than most of the figures already suggested. Flightradar24 is giving ground speed but since the aircraft was coming down at a steep angle, the actual forward speed will be much higher than ground speed.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 65):

I suggested in another thread that possibly the airport should have been closed, and I was told that clearly things weren't bad enough to close the airport and the suggestion was considered outrageous.

But when every other one of the few flights at that time were diverted, I guess we will find out why these pilots chose not to divert and pursue another landing. Maybe the crew discussed it.

Whether the airport should have closed or not was not the cause of this accident. It appears to me that the flight deck crew botched the second go around and either stalled and couldn't recover in the altitude remaining or else 'flew' the aircraft into the ground, ie entirely crew error. Yes of course if the airport had been closed the accident would not have happened, but that's like saying if no airports are opened then no aviation accidents can ever happen. The responsibility lies on the crew to know their (or their aircraft's limitations) and make safe decisions accordingly whether an airport is open or not. Airline policy may also be a factor.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:49 pm

Any chance of shear or microburst? Similar to US 1016 but obvious with much higher speed involved?
 
AIRWALK
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:55 pm

A few pictures of the flight recorders (credit: mak)



I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
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DL747400
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:55 pm

This CCTV clip is quite clear and strongly undermines all claims that the aircraft was on fire prior to impact:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aBq8saXy2M
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 70):
This CCTV clip is quite clear and strongly undermines all claims that the aircraft was on fire prior to impact:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aBq8saXy2M

It could be an illision but it looks like its banking and almost turning over to the left in the airplanes direction of travel. Clearly out of control.
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:00 pm

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 38):
Imagine a small boat like a zodiac and imagine it had a nice powerful engine at the back.

Now load that zodiac with everything in site, including yourself your gear and your fellow friends...
now add FULL POWER....the nose of the boat won't rise up too much and it will move along sturdy

now take the same boat with no weight and add that full power...the nose of the boat will boost up and the boat will be subject to deflections by the waves and by the natural direction of thrust...

Perfect description - really helps me to visualize the problem. Thank you.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 52):
This is the somatogravic illusion

So does that mean that they weren't looking at their instruments but rather just going by what they felt?

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 59):
Poor souls.

Hopefully they didn't know what hit them.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 65):
I suggested in another thread that possibly the airport should have been closed, and I was told that clearly things weren't bad enough to close the airport and the suggestion was considered outrageous.

I missed those replies to you I guess but my understanding is that usually that decision is left up to the pilots unless there is a physical reason that the airport can't or shouldn't be used. I'm sure there are certain weather related causes for closing an airport but the responsibility would normally seem to be on the pilots to determine the conditions and make an informed decision.

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lychemsa
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:01 pm

A Russian plane diverted to a nearby airport. Why didn't he do that I wonder instead of flying nowhere for 2 hours.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting lychemsa (Reply 73):

I estimate the weather system would be similar nearby with the winds and clouds...the weather is within limits for approach and landing for most airlines...winds less than 50 knots and basically a headwind...

anybody have time to put up Metars and tafs for surrounding airports such as Sochi, Krasnador, Stavropol?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:40 pm

The pictures of the black box does look badly mangled,hope they can get something off it.
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copter808
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:45 pm

Quoting Shmendr (Reply 42):
Pilot fatigue landing in poor weather.

I think that one of the contributing factors is going to be fatigue. Holding for two hours in the middle of the night is certainly not something that is going to keep your senses at a peak. Pretty easy to doze off during the hold.
 
peanuts
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:53 pm

That's a crazy nose dive.
Maybe the pilots got into a disagreement...
Indicision, fatigue, irritation... Etc etc.
 
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Finn350
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:59 pm

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 74):
The pictures of the black box does look badly mangled,hope they can get something off it.

When looking at pictures, the cylinders containing the memory chips don't look too badly damaged. I would assume they are able to extract the data.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:13 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 72):
So does that mean that they weren't looking at their instruments but rather just going by what they felt?

It's not a matter of not looking at the instruments. The human body unfortunately has a piss-poor "attitude indicator" if you will. You may be looking at the instruments yet the other sensory inputs are sending your brain contradicting information, at a much louder tone than what is coming through the eyes. The instruments are the logical input which should be correct, yet your brain will find it very difficult to ignore the other inputs which may be telling it a completely different (and wrong) story.

To sense motion and balance, your brain receives inputs from 3 different sources:

-From your eyesight
-From sensations in your muscles and joints (for example, feeling pressure points like your weight on your rear end, accelerationsdeceleration pressing against certain parts of your body held by seat belts, etc)
-From the vestibular system in your ears, which essentially detect the direction of "gravity", linear movement, and rotational movement.

Your brain constantly processes the 3 inputs combined and based on that is normally able to conclude what your position in space is, and your motion, and all is well.

For pilots, during situations when there is poor visibility and the only visual reference is reduced to the instruments in front of him, the visual input is now severely degraded. The cross-checking your brain does of the above 3 inputs now becomes compromised because the eyesight is no longer a strong input. The muscle/joints and vestibular system take over in importance to your brain.

The problem with that is that the muscle/joints and vestibular systems by themselves are not suitable for controlling the motion of an aircraft in flight. The force of gravity your body "feels" is no longer necessarily "down", it's governed by the flight path of the aircraft (for example, an aircraft pulling out of a vertical dive with a 1G pull will feel like straight and level to your body). Linear acceleration will be interpreted as a pitch up motion and a climb, deceleration as the opposite, even if the plane is only accelerating/decelerating in level flight.

Similarly, the vestibular system sends erroneous messages as it unfortunately is not a biological attitude indicator. It merely senses changes in motion and transmits that signal to the brain, and your brain figures out what your attitude should be based on that change in motion it just felt. The problem is, once you lose visual references your brain eventually will lose the "level horizon" reference point and the vestibular system will send erroneous information regarding attitude.

The above can all result in vertigo, or spacial disorientation. The also render the pilot susceptible to illusions such as the one Pihero well described. Again those 2 sources can be very overpowering to the brain and believing what the eyes see through the instruments becomes a difficult task. With a good visual input (such as discernible horizon), this is not a problem because the eyesight overrules any erroneous inputs from the other 2.

Having some outside visibility can have even a further negative effect in disorienting a pilot, especially in areas where the ground is sparsely lit and there is no discernible horizon. Having some outside reference, not matter how vague or useless, tempts the eyes to try to conclude or verify what is happening based on that limited view. The problem is, the lights of that town on your "left" could actually be a town "below"; the "star" you see ahead is just the light of a farm in the middle of empty fields. Trying to fixate on what little detail can be seen to determine orientation of the aircraft can be disastrous.

Pilotaydin and Pihero both gave excellent explanations of the plausible scenario based on what is known. A sudden change in motion with poor visual references can be very disorienting and challenging, particularly if you have a fatigued crew.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:19 pm

So based on the discussion and the latest video, it seems like the most plausible scenario involves spatial disorientation by the crew. Now, could the risk of this happening again be alleviated with more (yes, more) rather than less automation? Maybe at the time a go-around is executed the flight director could latch on to a certain predetermined heading, speed, altitude, whatever?
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:39 pm

I'm still seriously bothered by one thing: why didn't they just divert the plane to another airport with better weather conditions? It was obvious that even at the time of the attempted landing, the weather was still quite poor, a likely contributing factor to the crash.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:45 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 81):

I am afraid that the management might have took the decision instead of the Captain and forced him to land at the airport. Maybe he was holding for 2 hours waiting for the weather to get better, then went to land the aircraft due to low fuel(??)
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zeke
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:47 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 58):
OK. That was my observation on doing stalls / aerobatics : the lift-generating depression after the critical AoA had been reached / passed cannot be compared with the one at lower AoAs, and not a lot of condensation either.

What you would not typically see is what is happening on the underside of the wing. You comments are valid, just not something a purist would agree with.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 81):

I'm still seriously bothered by one thing: why didn't they just divert the plane to another airport with better weather conditions?

Sadly I suspect it would be a "commercial" consideration, diverting and recovering an aircraft as a foreign airline in Russia is no easy task.
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:49 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 81):
I'm still seriously bothered by one thing: why didn't they just divert the plane to another airport with better weather conditions? It was obvious that even at the time of the attempted landing, the weather was still quite poor, a likely contributing factor to the crash.

Weather is probably a contributing factor only in the sense that they were forced to make a go-around. It is even possible had they continued the landing they might have averted the accident and landed successfully.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 83):
Sadly I suspect it would be a "commercial" consideration, diverting and recovering an aircraft as a foreign airline in Russia is no easy task.

While I'd agree, now we have 62 passengers and crew dead and the legal costs of settling the lawsuits from 62 dead is way, way higher than the cost of diverting that FlyDubai 738 to another airport.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 65):
I suggested in another thread that possibly the airport should have been closed, and I was told that clearly things weren't bad enough to close the airport and the suggestion was considered outrageous.

But when every other one of the few flights at that time were diverted, I guess we will find out why these pilots chose not to divert and pursue another landing.

Could be as simple as the other flights not having the fuel to hold for so long.

-Mir
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dubaiamman243
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:07 pm

Russian Authorities: Flight recorders severely damaged and may take a month to recover data.
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trnswrld
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:09 pm

Yeah this is extremely sad no matter what way you look at it. For whatever reason it sounds like the pilots were dead focused on landing at this airport, and this airport only. Obviously I don't know this for sure without hearing the CVR, but based on the amount of landing attempts there, and the pilot/ATC communication he kept asking if weather was improving almost literally just waiting for the controller to finally just say something along the lines of "yes it's better"....but they never did. But yeah it seems like an actual landing attempt...or anything for that matter would have been a better idea then yet another go around. Just not w good situation to be in. There is no doubt in my mind that if there is any flight that would be the least safe it would be night flights with poor weather at the end of the day...no doubt about it. It's just a fact of life. Same can be said for driving cars. What would be an optimal driving situation? Driving at 10am after a great night of sleep on a sunny day, or at 2am in middle of the night with pouring down rain? Very tough situation for these pilots 
 
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zeke
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:21 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 85):
While I'd agree, now we have 62 passengers and crew dead and the legal costs of settling the lawsuits from 62 dead is way, way higher than the cost of diverting that FlyDubai 738 to another airport.

So for you it is also a commercial consideration.

The liabilities per passenger is limited on international flights, it is the terms and conditions every passenger accepts when the purchase a ticket. This is in the "Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air (the Montreal Convention) "

The only error I have seen so far is the advance payment to cover immediate economic needs being reported as US$20,000, when it should be 16,000 special drawing rights ( http://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/data/rms_mth.aspx?reportType=CVSDR ) which currently would be about US$22,300.
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Pihero
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:21 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 83):
You comments are valid, just not something a purist would agree with.

I, as usual, bow to your greater engineering knowledge   

Thanks, it's useful to the forum.
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 88):
But yeah it seems like an actual landing attempt...or anything for that matter would have been a better idea then yet another go around. Just not w good situation to be in.

I hope the CVR and data will clarify just why they decided to abort the second time. IIRC, they were about 3 nm out. There are prescribed minimums - runway in sight, etc - that may have been violated, thus dictating a go-around, whether they wanted to or not.
 
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:36 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 83):
Sadly I suspect it would be a "commercial" consideration, diverting and recovering an aircraft as a foreign airline in Russia is no easy task.

When safety is concerned even the russians cooperate. The decision rests on the Pilot in Command also in russian airspace. But the captain may have commercial pressure from the airline as an input in his decisions. That is something that the investigation will show. If there were any problems from ATC and russian authorities diverting an airliner for safety reasons in russian airspace you would see no western carriers operating there.
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copter808
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:46 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 80):
Now, could the risk of this happening again be alleviated with more (yes, more) rather than less automation? Maybe at the time a go-around is executed the flight director could latch on to a certain predetermined heading, speed, altitude, whatever?

Yes, it COULD. But experience has shown the opposite usually results from more automation.
 
lancelot07
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:50 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 93):
Yes, it COULD. But experience has shown the opposite usually results from more automation.

Does it ? Flying has somehow become so much safer.
 
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zeke
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:02 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 92):
When safety is concerned even the russians cooperate.

You have misread what I posted, it is very easy to divert in Russia. It is the recovery from that diversion that is difficult.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 92):
That is something that the investigation will show.

No, the Russian investigation will not show anything which brings the state into question. And if we are talking about the recovery of the aircraft post diversion, it will not even be discussed.
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dubaiamman243
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:14 pm

Here is a 3D reconstruction of the crash (or what s believed to be the cause of the crash)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1jAjwZ5QlbQ&feature=youtu.be
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lancelot07
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 95):
It is the recovery from that diversion that is difficult.

+ they had the return flight to DXB scheduled that night. I wonder if this had an influence on the decision not to divert.
 
barney captain
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:46 pm

Clickable link:

(remove the "s" after HTTP to allow the link to be clickable)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1jAjwZ5QlbQ&feature=youtu.be


I'm not sure how accurate that animation is. All indication are the a/c impacted on the runway, likely in a nose down attitude.

[Edited 2016-03-20 12:48:05]
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Prost
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:46 pm

Most single hub airlines DO have their planes scheduled to return.
 
UALWN
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RE: FlyDubai B738 Crashes On Approach In Russia Part 2

Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:00 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 93):
But experience has shown the opposite usually results from more automation.

Are you really saying that automation has mede flying less safe?
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